Allen Over Rosen Reminds Me of

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

2 minutes ago, 4thandGoal said:

only thing stupid is people creating new profiles to protest the pic .. people starting new threads when the topic is in 10-15 other threads .. people talking **** how this pick sucks without giving him  a chance... 

It's a message board.  It where fans go to vent.  I am giving Allen a clean start but people don't have to turn in their fan card if they criticize the pick, that is ridiculous.

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

Just now, Thurmanator 12074 said:

would you like us to pitch in and buy you a drum ?. If we do, can you post youtube videos every week while your watch the Arizona Cardinals & Josh Rosen play every week. Just wondering if you will in fact follow through. Maybe 2 bills drive fourm can pin your drum post. That way can keep track of your drumming. I love your passion for Rosen you coukd also post your drumming posts 

on Rosen’s twitter feed too. 

 

I'm not going to follow Rosen per se, but I will from time to time remind everyone why the Bills still suck and the Cards don't.

[Mickey]

13 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

We would not have to go through the next 3 years of watching an inevitable trainwreck bust at the QB position, AGAIN, if Pegula knew how to hire a front office.  The "see how it works out" crowd is all we have been doing as a fan base for the last ~23 years.  No more of this crap please. 

Let me translate this for those who don't speak whiner: I didn't get what I want so I am going to throw a non-stop, non-sensical tantrum until my adderall wears off.

[17 Josh Allen]

2 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

I'm not going to follow Rosen per se, but I will from time to time remind everyone why the Bills still suck and the Cards don't.

So you are not really a Rosen fan, your just hear to Twitch with a B. Do you even like the Bills ? 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

Just now, Mickey said:

Let me translate this for those who don't speak whiner: I didn't get what I want so I am going to throw a non-stop, non-sensical tantrum until my adderall wears off.

 

I'd like the Bills to be a good team, after many decades of ****.  How bout you?  If that's what you really want, you'd have a problem with this pick as well.

 

Rosen was right there...

[starrymessenger]

I'm willing to give Beane the benefit of the doubt that someday Allen will be the QB that Rosen already is, however unlikely that may be.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

I'm willing to give Beane the benefit of the doubt that someday Allen will be the QB that Rosen already is, however unlikely that may be.

 

We really have no choice other than to hope for the best as fans of the team. 

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

2 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

So you are not really a Rosen fan, your just hear to B word. 

 

I'm not a fan of individual players, I'm a fan of the Bills.  The Bills have sucked for a very long time, now the odds are very good they will suck for 3 more years. Huge bummer.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Rosen-not-Chosen

[17 Josh Allen]

1 minute ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

I'd like the Bills to be a good team, after many decades of ****.  How bout you?  If that's what you really want, you'd have a problem with this pick as well.

 

Rosen was right there...

Where was he. Bills had no intention of drafting him. Bills traded up to get their QB. Now it’s time to 

see how it works out. Year one with this regime and they made the playoffs. That’s pretty good in my book. 

[die hard bills fan]

Trust The Process

[bobobonators]

Whitner and Nagata didn’t even play the same position. Who cares what a different regime did 20yrs ago?

 

This new regime, which has made a Super Bowl, and made the playoffs their first yr with the Bills, had had their pick of Rosen or Allen. And they made their choice. How people get butt hurt about it to this degree is beyond me. It’s not like they took a Corner instead of either Allen or Rosen. 

 

Toothpick Rosen is nothing to get this upset about. My wife has wider shoulders than that guy. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by bobobonators

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Just curious, how were those great trades?  Our wrs sucked last year and throwing deep to Sammy was what Tyrod did best.  I’d argue we might have beat Jacksonville with Sammy.  

 

And our secondary was the best part of the team, but we traded a starting cb on a SB winner for Jordan Matthews.  That’s awful.  

 

I think the larger point point is you don’t have to act like NFL decision makers always know better than the fans.  Those are good examples of the fans being right. Trust me, I was the biggest homer alive then, so I defend those picks.  IMO, this feels like those situations as well.

 

time will tell but it’s ok for some (almost the majority) of Bills fans to be upset.  This was one of the most important picks in Bills’ history.  Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong about this.  But for such a conservative coach/ team, this was insanely risky.

I'm no longer upset and have decided to just roll with it. My approach going forward is to treat Allen as an interesting experiment given the very real huge upside. I'm gonna try and make it fun for myself regardless of the outcome. Maybe he'll be great; who really knows.

Edited April 27, 2018 by dave mcbride

[hondo in seattle]

I gotta say this, even though Allen wouldn't have been my pick...

 

I think it's funny that some posters think their couple hours of watching highlights combined with reading some media reports make them better judges of QB talent than the collective intelligence of Beane and his entire scouting department combined with their hundreds of hours of due diligence.  

 

Part of the fun of being a fan is second-guessing coaches and GMs.  But let's not pretend we actually know more.  

 

 

[Southern Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

when the Bills drafted Whitner over Ngata and Maybin over Orakpo.   The fans made the right call in those cases over the Bills' Front Office.  

The arrogance of starting a thread to tell everyone how "you" feel is amazing. Go suck on your baby bottle and root for another team then.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

44 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

Im not saying Allen will workout...only time will tell.  But maybe there is a reason why Rosen was the QB that fell. 

 

Rosen fell over injury concerns. Nobody wants to bank a franchise on another Bradford. There is a saying around the league that guys who are injured stay injured. It's a trend with them. They never seem to buck it. Maybe they stay healthy in spurts (2-3 years tops) and maybe that's what a team wants,  a spurt of greatness to make a run with their present roster.

 

But I think the feeling is that the Bills wanted a long-term solution and stability under center. Develop the guy with the highest ceiling (everyone agrees that's Allen) and least amount of off field problems (once again-Allen) He was actually 4 on my list and I was angry when I heard his name called, but a few of my friends on the West Coast texted to congratulate us on a great pick. Those who saw Allen said he's going to be Big Ben for us.  I hope they are right.

Edited April 27, 2018 by BillsRdue

[hondo in seattle]

26 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

I think the biggest difference between those picks and the Allen pick is no one had maybin over orakpo or whitner over ngata in player rankings. 

A decent number of scouting/mock drafts had Allen as a higher rates qb

 

Mayock - who I consider one of the better draft gurus - wrote this in his mock:

 

Dude is 6-foot-5, 237 pounds. He's the same size as Carson Wentz with bigger arm talent and he's a better athlete. Out of maybe any player in this draft, his upside might be the highest. I don't think he's ready Day 1, but if he can get over some hurdles, he's going to be special. 

 

The rub is the "if."  But every college QB has hurdles to overcome.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Southern Bills Fan said:

The arrogance of starting a thread to tell everyone how "you" feel is amazing. Go suck on your baby bottle and root for another team then.

 

That's what we do here.  You don't get to tell me what to post or what team to root for.  Now that is arrogance in addition to your usual stupidity.

[Southern Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's what we do here.  You don't get to tell me what to post or what team to root for.  Now that is arrogance in addition to your usual stupidity.

Waaaaaaaaa. They didn't pick who I wanted. Waaaaaaaaa.

[die hard bills fan]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I gotta say this, even though Allen wouldn't have been my pick...

 

I think it's funny that some posters think their couple hours of watching highlights combined with reading some media reports make them better judges of QB talent than the collective intelligence of Beane and his entire scouting department combined with their hundreds of hours of due diligence.  

 

Part of the fun of being a fan is second-guessing coaches and GMs.  But let's not pretend we actually know more.  

 

 

Exactly. I wanted Rosen but in no way am I putting my armchair experience with Beane and Mcd's experience and work they put into this.  After thinking about it overnight  and listening to Charlie Weis on nfl radio this morning I do think Allen is a good fit for Buffalo in the long run.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, die hard bills fan said:

Exactly. I wanted Rosen but in no way am I putting my armchair experience with Beane and Mcd's experience and work they put into this.  After thinking about it overnight  and listening to Charlie Weis on nfl radio this morning I do think Allen is a good fit for Buffalo in the long run.

 

That approach means every GM and coach in the NFL should not be critiqued for the moves they make solely because of the positions they hold. 

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

8 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Where was he. Bills had no intention of drafting him. Bills traded up to get their QB. Now it’s time to 

see how it works out. Year one with this regime and they made the playoffs. That’s pretty good in my book. 

 

lol, they backed into the plyayoff's... If that is the criteria you're using to self-affirm the FO is good, you have a very weak foundation to your stance, and it's likely you will be disappointed by the real word results over the next 3 seasons.

[BADOLBILZ]

49 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

At least Allen is used to playing behind a bad O-line with injured receivers in bad weather.

 

 

Unfortunately this is part of the evaluation.    Potentially awful pass blocking OL and arguably the worst receiving corps in the NFL.

 

And if I am a play-not-to-lose defensive coach with an uncomplimentary roster do I want to pick a QB who will be in the owner's ear about getting me canned for someone more willing to cater to his game?   Especially with a guy available who is a lot like the QB who was the league MVP the year I went to the SB as a DC?  

 

From Beane and McD's perspective it is basically self-interest that could also plausibly turn out for the best for the organization in the long run.

 

You don't have to like the pick........I think Rosen is CLEARLY the more likely prospect to succeed........but IMO you can't be all-in on McD and not at least understand the pick.  

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[Kirby Jackson]

Allen wasn’t my guy. Rosen has been my guy since before the 2017 draft and he was there for the taking. That was a little deflating for me.

 

I am going to support Allen though. I want the Bills to win. I’ve seen people on here calling him EJ and Losman. I don’t see that. Some people had Allen as high as 1. Apparently the Jets coaches were interested at 3, the Cardinals had him as their top guy, etc... This isn’t a guy like EJ that was a 3rd round project that got pushed up because of a terrible QB class. This guy was considered to be in the top tier of a strong QB class. His upside is either WAY higher than EJ & Losman or his bust potential WAY lower. That’s why he was more highly thought of coming in.

 

The idea of a boom or bust guy scares me but the price wasn’t excessive. My fear was a big overpay on a dice roll. Preserving that pick and getting Edmunds took some of the sting off. It is similar to looking back in the EJ pick and saying “at least we ended up with Shady from our extra asset.”

 

Additionally, the Bills kept their 2019 draft picks. I don’t think that this team is going to be good this year and that’s okay with me as long as Allen turns into the guy. They can enter the 2019 season with a young, talented QB, potentially great LB, $100M in cap space and a top 10 pick in one of the best DL drafts ever. They have a chance to have be great. Again though, it hinges on Allen being the guy. I hope that they are right.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Unfortunately this is part of the evaluation.    Potentially awful pass blocking OL and arguably the worst receiving corps in the NFL.

 

And if I am a play-not-to-lose defensive coach with an uncomplimentary roster do I want to pick a QB who will be in the owner's ear about getting me canned for someone more willing to cater to my game?   Especially with a guy available who is a lot like the QB who was the league MVP the year I went to the SB as a DC?  

 

From Beane and McD's perspective it is basically self-interest that could also plausibly turn out for the best for the organization in the long run.

 

You don't have to like the pick........I think Rosen is CLEARLY the more likely prospect to succeed........but IMO you can't be all-in on McD and not at least understand the pick.  

 

 

Good post, but I must confess that I've come around to the idea that Rosen is in fact an a-hole (ironically, through all of the media he's done recently to prove he's not one plus his ridiculous comments last night). He may be great, but he may also be Cutler Mach II.

[hondo in seattle]

32 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

We would not have to go through the next 3 years of watching an inevitable trainwreck bust at the QB position, AGAIN, if Pegula knew how to hire a front office.  The "see how it works out" crowd is all we have been doing as a fan base for the last ~23 years.  No more of this crap please. 

 

The BIlls - and a lot of other folks - like Allen.  You clearly don't.  Can you honestly say Allen has 0% chance of becoming a franchise QB?  Would you be so arrogant to say in absolute certainty that all the professional personnel guys who like Allen are simply idiots and have no clue how to evaluate QBs?   But you do?

 

Allen's flaws and shortcomings are obvious to the world.  The Bills believe Allen can overcome them.  Brees, Brady and many others had to overcome flaws when they turned pro and succeeded.  Lots of other QBs don't overcome their college flaws.  Who really knows which camp Allen will fall into?

 

I think all the go-big-or-go-home guys should be happy because the Bills just swung hard on a guy who might end being a bust but could also turn out to be a star.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Allen wasn’t my guy. Rosen has been my guy since before the 2017 draft and he was there for the taking. That was a little deflating for me.

 

I am going to support Allen though. I want the Bills to win. I’ve seen people on here calling him EJ and Losman. I don’t see that. Some people had Allen as high as 1. Apparently the Jets coaches were interested at 3, the Cardinals had him as their top guy, etc... This isn’t a guy like EJ that was a 3rd round project that got pushed up because of a terrible QB class. This guy was considered to be in the top tier of a strong QB class. His upside is either WAY higher than EJ & Losman or his bust potential WAY lower. That’s why he was more highly thought of coming in.

 

The idea of a boom or bust guy scares me but the price wasn’t excessive. My fear was a big overpay on a dice roll. Preserving that pick and getting Edmunds took some of the sting off. It is similar to looking back in the EJ pick and saying “at least we ended up with Shady from our extra asset.”

 

Additionally, the Bills kept their 2019 draft picks. I don’t think that this team is going to be good this year and that’s okay with me as long as Allen turns into the guy. They can enter the 2019 season with a young, talented QB, potentially great LB, $100M in cap space and a top 10 pick in one of the best DL drafts ever. They have a chance to have be great. Again though, it hinges on Allen being the guy. I hope that they are right.

Strong opinions but always reasonable. You nailed this one. 

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

Can you honestly say Allen has 0% chance of becoming a franchise QB?

 

Maybe he has a 30% chance.

[FearLess Price]

51 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Agree 100%. Last night I said this was a soul-crushing draft.  All the talent we gave up, all the picks we compiled, for this? I said it before, we gave up 5 premium picks in the first 3 Rounds and an opening day will have one linebacker to show for it and the second coming of EJ Manuel. I'm disgusted.

 

Same here dude. Im seriously thinking of catching more Browns games this year. We passed on Rosen for Allen. That is a firable offense. Its the end of this regime already and they dont even know it. 

[QBorBust2018]

Yeah but Allen was actually projected by a ton of people to go 1st overall, maybin and Whitner were not 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

when the Bills drafted Whitner over Ngata and Maybin over Orakpo.   The fans made the right call in those cases over the Bills' Front Office.  

 

Nut up. I'm ready to move forward with this kid, win lose or draw.

 

[xxxxxxxx]

As predicted, lots of criticism of the pick this morning. Once again, the Bills front office is a laughing stock.

1 minute ago, QBorBust2018 said:

Yeah but Allen was actually projected by a ton of people to go 1st overall, maybin and Whitner were not 

So was Bortles, and he sucks.

[nedboy7]

What a terrible draft.  And here we go with the bs this team wasn’t going to be good this year anyways.  This draft seems to have the owners influence.  I guess when you frack your way to billions you might start to think you actually might know something about football. If you didn’t like TT you guys are gonna love the new frencheyes.  

[CLTbills]

1 hour ago, Gigs said:

And this is the mentality that made the Bills so damn good for the last 20 years

It’s even got racist tweets!

This crap annoys the hell out of me. A 15 year old quoting rap lyrics doesn't mean the same person, 5 years later, is a racist. The difference between 15 and 20 is huge.. 

[noacls]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

when the Bills drafted Whitner over Ngata and Maybin over Orakpo.   The fans made the right call in those cases over the Bills' Front Office.  

It was not Orakpo. Modrak wanted Cushing he was overruled by Skeletor who wanted Maybin.

[xxxxxxxx]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

What a terrible draft.  And here we go with the bs this team wasn’t going to be good this year anyways.  This draft seems to have the owners influence.  I guess when you frack your way to billions you might start to think you actually might know something about football. If you didn’t like TT you guys are gonna love the new frencheyes.  

TT is the killer for me. Allen will not be an upgrade immediately, if ever. And we passed on 3 potential upgrades to aquire the capital to draft him. Rosen could have been there at 12, and it would have been the steal of the draft. Instead, we fall in love with a kid who looks the part, but can't play. Its classic nepotism.

[Lfod]

Some one posted a funny video about the Bills picking Allen a few days before the draft. Little did they know that joke video turned into reality.

 

I probably won't be jumping into the debate. If Rosen is better then Allen at any time then Beane will get roasted. I'm sure he made that pick with that in mind. He staked his reputation on Allen.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said:

TT is the killer for me. Allen will not be an upgrade immediately, if ever. And we passed on 3 potential upgrades to aquire the capital to draft him. Rosen could have been there at 12, and it would have been the steal of the draft. Instead, we fall in love with a kid who looks the part, but can't play. Its classic nepotism.

Who's Allen related to?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, noacls said:

It was not Orakpo. Modrak wanted Cushing he was overruled by Skeletor who wanted Maybin.

 

I was talking about who TSW wanted not any internal debate among the GM and HC. 

[nedboy7]

1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said:

TT is the killer for me. Allen will not be an upgrade immediately, if ever. And we passed on 3 potential upgrades to aquire the capital to draft him. Rosen could have been there at 12, and it would have been the steal of the draft. Instead, we fall in love with a kid who looks the part, but can't play. Its classic nepotism.

 

Exactly dude. Omg. Is it ok to have an opinion and not kiss the ass of our new QB?????   

Edited April 27, 2018 by nedboy7

[NewEraBills]

8 minutes ago, Lfod said:

Some one posted a funny video about the Bills picking Allen a few days before the draft. Little did they know that joke video turned into reality.

 

I probably won't be jumping into the debate. If Rosen is better then Allen at any time then Beane will get roasted. I'm sure he made that pick with that in mind. He staked his reputation on Allen.

 

It's going to be rough initially because I'm sure Rosen is going to be playing this year very soon given Bradford's history.