CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) Something I've been thinking. Bills fell asleep at the wheel. Why do I say this? Everyone said Colts didn't want to trade out of the top 10. I believed this also, but the more I see mock drafts and hear the Colts GM saying he's not apposed to moving down the more I think Beane overplayed his hand for the 3rd pick. Beane probably tried to haggle and they said, screw you and took a deal with the Jets. Now here's the hard part. I believe if Whaley is the GM we have the 3rd overall pick today and everyone is projecting we get Darnold or Rosen. It's sickening. Whaley would have given up "too much" but we'd be in a better position. JMO. Edited April 23, 2018 by CuddyDark 2 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills of Boston Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 He could have not wanted to move out of top 10 for his first deal and then for a potential second is fine with it. Ballard essentially gets double the amount of picks w two trades. So this narrative isn’t really all that correct (theoretically of course.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 But the colts moved 3 spots and got what 3 2nd round picks Colts now have the ability to move down again and build up more picks we couldn’t offer that jets had a better offer then we did 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Oh my..... I think I’m just going to back out of this thread quietly 6 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Bills of Boston said: He could have not wanted to move out of top 10 for his first deal and then for a potential second is fine with it. Ballard essentially gets double the amount of picks w two trades. So this narrative isn’t really all that correct (theoretically of course.) Jets trade seems like a backup plan they had if the Bills tried to stick to the trade chart or lowball their offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The draft can't get here soon enough... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) I disagree strongly. Staying in the top ten, and getting the over payment the Colts did was a far more appealing package, because they allowed them selves to move down again!!! We could have been in the lead for the pick then the Jets gave up what they did, and the Colts knew that not only gave them assets but even more power to acquire more. This isnt on Beane, the guy has reportedly tried to move up, none of these teams are budging yet. Had Buffalo already been in the top 7-10, and lost out to the Jets, that would be worth blaming Beane then, but picking at 12 doesnt help. Especially when the entire league has made a point of saying they only believe there is X amount of top tier talent. Edited April 23, 2018 by BillsFan17 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, CuddyDark said: Jets trade seems like a backup plan they had if the Bills tried to stick to the trade chart or lowball their offer. The Colts and Jets had been talking since the Senior Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Beane probably tried to haggle and they said, screw you and took a deal with the Jets. So the Colts GM took the best deal he could get over a month before the draft out of spite? I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a no. More realistically Beane probably declined to give up more value than the Jets were able to and that was that. And now people think we'll somehow get to #2 or #1 without giving up more value than the Jets did. The Colts probably asked for 3 1st round picks. The Giants will want even more than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Something I've ben thinking. Bills fell asleep at the wheel. Why do I say this? Everyone said Colts didn't want to trade out of the top 10. I believed this also, but the more I seem mock drafts and hear the Colts GM saying he's not apposed to moving down the more I think Beane overplayed his had for the 3rd pick. Beane probably tried to haggle and they said, screw you and took a deal with the Jets. Now here's the hard part. I believe if Whaley is the GM we have the 3rd overall pick today and everyone is projecting we get Darnold or Rosen. It's sickening. Whaley would have given up "too much" but we'd be in a better position. JMO. The trade with the Jets happened a few weeks ago.....many things could have changed. Both Ballard and Dorsey know how top heavy the QB draft is and teams will be desperate....this could be a tactic to drive the value up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 So based on no knowledge of any trade discussions, you assume Beane screwed up? Conspiracy theories are fun. Far more likely, Jets made a better offer 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: I disagree strongly. Staying in the top ten, and getting the over payment the Colts did was a far more appealing package, because they allowed them selves to move down again!!! We could have been in the lead for the pick then the Jets gave up what they did, and the Colts knew that not only gave them assets but even more power to acquire more. This isnt on Beane, the guy has reportedly tried to move up, none of these teams are budging yet. Had Buffalo already been in the top 7-10, and lost out to the Jets, that's fine, but picking at 12 doesnt help. Especially when the entire league has made a point of saying they only believe there is X amount of top tier talent. I don't believe this because the Bills have two number ones. I think the Bills overplayed their hand. Beane specifically. Edited April 23, 2018 by CuddyDark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Something I've been thinking. Bills fell asleep at the wheel. Why do I say this? Everyone said Colts didn't want to trade out of the top 10. I believed this also, but the more I see mock drafts and hear the Colts GM saying he's not apposed to moving down the more I think Beane overplayed his hand for the 3rd pick. Beane probably tried to haggle and they said, screw you and took a deal with the Jets. Now here's the hard part. I believe if Whaley is the GM we have the 3rd overall pick today and everyone is projecting we get Darnold or Rosen. It's sickening. Whaley would have given up "too much" but we'd be in a better position. JMO. And what, exactly, was it that the Bills were going to give the Colts for their #3 pick? The Bills didn't have anything to offer that compares with the #6. Edited April 23, 2018 by Shaw66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, CuddyDark said: I don't believe this because they Bills have two number ones. I think they Bills overplayed their hand. Beane specifically. Based on what? A feeling? A birdie told you? Draft rumors? Give me a break 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, HappyDays said: So the Colts GM took the best deal he could get over a month before the draft out of spite? I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a no. More realistically Beane probably declined to give up more value than the Jets were able to and that was that. And now people think we'll somehow get to #2 or #1 without giving up more value than the Jets did. The Colts probably asked for 3 1st round picks. The Giants will want even more than that. Never said spite. Said I believe Bills overplayed their hand in the negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I'm going to laugh when on draft night the Browns take Allen and we immediately move to #2 to take Darnold for three firsts and a 2nd/3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, CuddyDark said: Never said spite. Said I believe Bills overplayed their hand in the negotiation. Ok but what does that mean? They didn't overplay their hand, they set a ceiling on what they were willing to give up and the Jets punched a hole through that ceiling. Credit to their front office for locking us out by offering one of the highest trade up premiums ever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, CuddyDark said: Never said spite. Said I believe Bills overplayed their hand in the negotiation. Assuming the 2019 2nd rounder is worth a 2018 3rd rounder at the Jets' spot (5th), the amount they gave the Colts to move up 3 spots was 1175. To make up that, the Bills would have had to give up both 1st rounder, their 1st next year, and their 2nd this year. If so, I'm glad Beane cost them the 3rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sweats said: Oh my..... I think I’m just going to back out of this thread quietly I have never seen the insanity at this level during any previous off season; some of you need a hobby, a job, or both! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 This thread is premature....let's see what happens first! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Never said spite. Said I believe Bills overplayed their hand in the negotiation. Uh .... maybe the Colts didn't want to move that far back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Has anyone seen my baseball? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: Based on what? A feeling? A birdie told you? Draft rumors? Give me a break Where do they come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: I don't believe this because the Bills have two number ones. I think the Bills overplayed their hand. Beane specifically. Two firsts doesnt automatically have intrinsic value. The value of pick 22 is exactly what the trade partner values that pick st. They arent going to base it on some value chart, they are going to base it what tier of prospect will potentially be there. Plus, again, dropping out of the top ten initially isnt as attractive as staying in the top ten. Getting what they did with the power to acquire more, you can under value you that all you want, but its exactly what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, HappyDays said: Ok but what does that mean? They didn't overplay their hand, they set a ceiling on what they were willing to give up and the Jets punched a hole through that ceiling. Credit to their front office for locking us out by offering one of the highest trade up premiums ever. This is what I mean. Bills overplayed their hand and Jets scooped them. I believe that's Beane's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, horned dogs said: This thread is premature....let's see what happens first! What a concept! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 This is good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Epstein's Mother said: Uh .... maybe the Colts didn't want to move that far back. They keep saying they do want to move that far back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Something I've been thinking. Bills fell asleep at the wheel. Why do I say this? Everyone said Colts didn't want to trade out of the top 10. I believed this also, but the more I see mock drafts and hear the Colts GM saying he's not apposed to moving down the more I think Beane overplayed his hand for the 3rd pick. Beane probably tried to haggle and they said, screw you and took a deal with the Jets. Now here's the hard part. I believe if Whaley is the GM we have the 3rd overall pick today and everyone is projecting we get Darnold or Rosen. It's sickening. Whaley would have given up "too much" but we'd be in a better position. JMO. Jets made a bad rrade out of desperation. Just like with women, moves out of desperation usually backfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, matter2003 said: Jets made a bad rrade out of desperation. Just like with women, moves out of desperation usually backfire. But they'll get a franchise QB. Lets see what desperation does to the Bills. Could have been sitting pretty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, CuddyDark said: They keep saying they do want to move that far back. Well, yeah..now that they already have three extra second rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Jets made a bad rrade out of desperation. Just like with women, moves out of desperation usually backfire. Jest deal is almost as bad as Ditka's deal was in New Orleans and some want us to make a more costly deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Doc said: Assuming the 2019 2nd rounder is worth a 2018 3rd rounder at the Jets' spot (5th), the amount they gave the Colts to move up 3 spots was 1175. To make up that, the Bills would have had to give up both 1st rounder, their 1st next year, and their 2nd this year. If so, I'm glad Beane cost them the 3rd pick. This. Plus the Colts GM said this: "Talked to a couple other teams, but we still wanted to stay in position in that top 10 where we could still get a premium player. We feel like at (No.) 6, we'll still be able to get a premium player." The Bills didn't have a pick in the top 10. They still don't, even after the Glenn deal. So, the Bills would have had to pay too much, AND the Bills didn't have what Colts wanted, but Beane still overplayed their hand? What hand? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said: Well, yeah..now that they already have three extra second rounders. So they don't care about the bluechip players in the top 6 anymore, now that they have 3 seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I don't think Beane over played his hand. I think the Colts simply did the smart thing. Make two teams overpay. They know they'll get greater value that way in the long run. And if in the long run they don't work out a second trade with us or another team like the Dolphins or Cardnials, they know they will still get a heck of player in Chubb, Barkley or Nelson at #6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: But they'll get a franchise QB. Lets see what desperation does to the Bills. Could have been sitting pretty. And how has the Jets record of selecting QBs gone in the past 10 years? Just because they can draft a QB doesnt mean they draft the right one. Lets not pretend whoever they draft is guaranteed to make the hall of fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Something I've been thinking. Bills fell asleep at the wheel. Why do I say this? Everyone said Colts didn't want to trade out of the top 10. I believed this also, but the more I see mock drafts and hear the Colts GM saying he's not apposed to moving down the more I think Beane overplayed his hand for the 3rd pick. Beane probably tried to haggle and they said, screw you and took a deal with the Jets. Now here's the hard part. I believe if Whaley is the GM we have the 3rd overall pick today and everyone is projecting we get Darnold or Rosen. It's sickening. Whaley would have given up "too much" but we'd be in a better position. JMO. From what i heard Whaley wanted Mahomes last yr but Mcd over ruled him. This is the reason he's not here now. Mahomes will be better then any QB in this draft we made a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, CuddyDark said: So they don't care about the bluechip players in the top 6 anymore, now that they have 3 seconds? The Colts have more holes than a cheap umbrella. It's part of the reason that Luck was injured so badly. They need all the capital they can get, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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