Should The Bills Let Richie Incognito Out Of His Contract

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

What do you do if he shows up to camp, is a distraction, and doesn’t have real trade value? 

 

If I'm the Bills, I play hardball.  Have him examined, given neuropsychological tests where a skilled practitioner can find something always, and send him home on NFI (where you don't get paid).  Let him fight that if he wants to.  Either stay retired, or if you un-retire, play ball and behave.  Don't screw with The Process.

 

Quote

Also, I asked in another thread: can he restructure again this offseason or does he have to be cut to sign a new contract?

 

I believe he can restructure as many times as he/Bills agree to

Edited April 15, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

If I did a good job at work + my employer was rich, then it told me I'd need to take a pay cut or be fired, I'd be so grateful, so happy.

 

So where you work, does the company have a set 100% rigid pay structure and not for one day of the year, can they pay even 1$ over that amount?  And if they were to hire a new guy or give raises out to current employees that would put them over that amount, they'd have to just go and fire others to make up the difference.

 

Where you work, did you sign an individual contract?

 

If they were to decide to cut your pay, would they first come to you and ask for your permission and agreement?

 

And to encourage you to agree to it, they'd offer you like maybe 1/2 your next years salary as an immediate bonus?

 

Do any of those things happen where you or most work??

 

You're comparing apples and oranges here with a completely different system and to try and "put yourself in his shoes" type of argument is meaningless IMO

[NoSaint]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If I'm the Bills, I play hardball.  They could have him examined, given neuropsychological tests, and send him home on NFI (where you don't get paid).

Either stay retired, or if you un-retire play ball and behave.

 

 

I believe he can restructure as many times as he/Bills agree to

 

I am pretty sure there are situations where that’s not true (various restricted situations for example to prevent essentially poison pill structure in the offer sheet- huge salary but immediately swap to signing bonus once the team can’t match) but not sure it’s a blanket policy.... it would be to prevent exactly this. Give a guy up front cash and then he plays games. Wouldn’t be effective if you couldn’t renegotiate the deal I’m the same year.

 

ive seen it once upon a time but almost certainly been long enough that it’s a cba or two ago and may be changed since

Edited April 15, 2018 by NoSaint

[dlonce]

2 hours ago, ALF said:

Richie was great his last 3 seasons , even did his best to learn a complex blocking scheme last season. So they rewarded that effort with a pay cut . That was a real insult. 

 

I agree but he signed the contract.

 

Beanes almost done removing players from the previous regime. I don’t agree with their move on Incognito but it is what it is.

I don’t understand what their coaches are looking at when grading these guys because he’s been a very good lineman for them.

Edited April 15, 2018 by dlonce

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Ritchie went on a childish rant. It would have been better had he behaved as a mature grown up person and a professional.

Having said that, there are a few things to take into consideration. Some speculate that one of those things is cocaine. My take is that arrogant pride and an over abundance of testosterone is the more likely suspect, part of the psychological make-up that makes him an outstanding guard. Often the personality is at least partly a reflection of the position played. And then there is the time-line. Ritchie agreed to a pay cut to help the team manage the cap. Then he sees the Bills back up the truck for Star, a guy who hasn't been very good for some years and has been to exactly zero pro bowls (Ritchie has been to 4). Maybe thats why he fired his agent. 

I hope this gets smoothed over. I love good guard play.

 

....be it as it may, but shouldn't you keep that "in house" with McBeane & McD versus publicly ranting...very clear precedent with McBeane about trying to un-retire and requesting release ala Boldin......you rot on the vine for a year...............

[The Now Moment]

If we can trade him, do it! Otherwise, let him go.  Why keep him around when we know what kind of distraction he can become in a locker room?  They got rid of other players because they carried too much baggage, why wouldn't they do the same with him?

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

Richie was great his last 3 seasons , even did his best to learn a complex blocking scheme last season. So they rewarded that effort with a pay cut . That was a real insult. 

He signed the deal. He is now throwing blame on his agents with the firing . Richie has been in the league for years. He has appeared to be well spoken and intelligent. I do not really feel good about saying this,  I do question where he is at mentally and emotionally. Richie seems to be making decisions he regrets soon there after. That is honestly not something I would expect out of a veteran like him. Richie taking this to SM is very poor taste. I can see how Richie could turn this into the Bills being a bully and forcing him to play under a deal he doesn’t see fair. The deal being fair or not was something Richie needed to discuss with the Bills before signing it. Ultimately Richie made a choice, it appears he doesn’t like his choice now . Going about vocalizing his displeasure this way will put the Bill on the defensive and not help things move to a productive place initially. 

[billykay]

22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

F##K NO!  However, Richie, feel free to negotiate a trade. 2nd rounder minimum.

Yep. This should be the Bills' position. Have his agent , if he still has one, try & negotiate a trade. If the agent is able to do that, then the Bills have another option. 

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

Release him.

Why?  No benefit to Bills.

 

Please explain why.

 

[SouthNYfan]

16 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...correct.....he effed this mess up from day one, accepting his agent's negotiation for pay cut.....why sign it?......right way to handle this and the wrong way which is what he chose....Bflo gave him the opportunity to resuurect his career which he did admirably and was paid well for it.....now we have Boldin II.......reminds me when Moulds burned every bridge outta town when he left through "his publicist"......

 

Yep.

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....be it as it may, but shouldn't you keep that "in house" with McBeane & McD versus publicly ranting...very clear precedent with McBeane about trying to un-retire and requesting release ala Boldin......you rot on the vine for a year...............

 

Yep.

Beane (and maybe McDermott is involved too) have made it clear.

Keep your grievances in house.

If you feel they are bad enough to air in public, then you can publicly stay home and not play at all.

Rot on the vine.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, SouthNYfan said:

 

Yep.

 

Yep.

Beane (and maybe McDermott is involved too) have made it clear.

Keep your grievances in house.

If you feel they are bad enough to air in public, then you can publicly stay home and not play at all.

Rot on the vine.

 

 

...pretty depressing to see this whole mess unfold in this matter......I honestly hated the original signing.......Bflo picked him up from the Rams in 2009 after they got sick of his antics (see below) and let him walk after the season (old habits die hard??).......he gets another chance and shocked the hell outta me that he had turned the corner........and now recidivism....

 

Spagnuolo (Rams) had given Incognito numerous chances to clean up his act, and had put him on notice that the Rams would cut ties with him if he couldn't control his anger.

 

The two personal fouls led to a $50,000 fine from the NFL and a letter from the league office warning him that "future infractions of the types you have committed may lead to increased disciplinary action up to and including suspension."^[23] In four years with the Rams from 2006 to 2009, Incognito drew 38 penalties, including seven unnecessary roughness calls, more than any other player during that span.^[

[starrymessenger]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....be it as it may, but shouldn't you keep that "in house" with McBeane & McD versus publicly ranting...very clear precedent with McBeane about trying to un-retire and requesting release ala Boldin......you rot on the vine for a year...............

 

Yeah I get that and I completely agree re keeping that stuff in house. And I'm not second guessing management's decisions either. But for the good of all concerned (mostly the team) I'm hoping cool heads will prevail and therefore that the front office too is capable of showing some maturity. I don't see Boldin as a reasonable comparable. He had no history with the team. Ritchie has been a good teammate and lockerroom leader and a leader by example on the field as well. The team gave him a chance and he turned things around. I'd like to continue that narrative if at all possible. I love me some red-a$$ guard.

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Yeah I get that and I completely agree re keeping that stuff in house. And I'm not second guessing management's decisions either. But for the good of all concerned (mostly the team) I'm hoping cool heads will prevail and therefore that the front office too is capable of showing some maturity. I don't see Boldin as a reasonable comparable. He had no history with the team. Ritchie has been a good teammate and lockerroom leader and a leader by example on the field as well. The team gave him a chance and he turned things around. I'd like to continue that narrative if at all possible. I love me some red-a$$ guard.

 

To be fair, we don’t know a ton about his locker room leadership here. We project a lot on him based on lack of new stories and being a lunch pail guy.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, BuffaloMatt said:

I think AB situation differs greatly from RI. One signed brand new that had a change of heart. RI gets a sharp stick in the eye for being one of the best guards in the league.

 

This stuff about RI screwing InCognito with a pay cut. 

 

They gave gim a signing bonus right?  He signed it right? It was negotiated right? 

 

Now if he didnt sign it he might have been cut come end of camp with NO  Money Right?

 

he made his choice for a quick 1.5M money grab. F Him. Play of rot on the retired or suspended list for conduct detrimental to the team. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Yeah I get that and I completely agree re keeping that stuff in house. And I'm not second guessing management's decisions either. But for the good of all concerned (mostly the team) I'm hoping cool heads will prevail and therefore that the front office too is capable of showing some maturity. I don't see Boldin as a reasonable comparable. He had no history with the team. Ritchie has been a good teammate and lockerroom leader and a leader by example on the field as well. The team gave him a chance and he turned things around. I'd like to continue that narrative if at all possible. I love me some red-a$$ guard.

 

...can't debate that....BUT....why the hell undo the "good"?......and I certainly do NOT fault McBeane for running a disciplined ship....been catching quite a bit on NFLN with Willie McGinest (really like this guy) about the prognosis that Dez may go to NE......said he would have to have a major sit down with Belichick to understand and buy into the Patriots way....Willie said there are NO exceptions if you were a 1st round pick to a UDFA......individuals need not apply......it is all about "team" and either you're "in or out".......I happen to like that style.....FIVE Lombardis says somethin' is working...hell I'd take ONE before going to Hell's Kitchen (shortly)..........

Edited April 15, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[JimBob2232]

There is no way you can let him off the hook here.   I'm fine with releasing him and sending him on his way, but he CANNOT keep the bonus we paid him.   Its one or the other.

[eee1776]

He is just waiting for the drugs to clear his system. No drug test if you retire.

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

To be fair, we don’t know a ton about his locker room leadership here. We project a lot on him based on lack of new stories and being a lunch pail guy.

 

[Heavy Kevi]

$&+* NO!

 

People need to start doing what they say they will do, and not sign their name to a contract if they don't plan on following through.

 

I really liked Ritchie, but this is some complete 9 year old kid bull ****. Be a man and do what you promised to.

[Manther]

No, don't release him.  If we can trade him for something good I would be fine with that.  But, I wouldn't accept just anything.  I would want a 5th round pick at minimum.  If we can get a 6th or 7th I say let him do what he needs to do.

[Ol Dirty B]

2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bills gave him the opportunity to rejuvenate and continue his career when others disregarded and black balled him. 

Made him a millionaire a few times over for his effort.

 

#twowaystreet

 

It's not a two way street though. Richie earned a new contract and that wasn't honored. 

 

I always have a hard time siding with teams over these things because of the way they treat players in relation to other sports. Richie plays good, earns a contract extension. A couple years later, they say, nevermind I don't want to pay that. It's just so warped to me, so all of you who say Richie should honor the contract he signed, the Bills didn't do that first. 

 

So when the Bills do this it's just the nature of the business, and when a player does it they get called all sorts of names, told their spoiled and to be happy with what they make now. All these teams are making way more money than any player and turn around and ask for money back from the players, and the public. They are the spoiled ones.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Richie personally, it just happens he's in a situation where I tend to side with the player. 

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, ALF said:

Richie was great his last 3 seasons , even did his best to learn a complex blocking scheme last season. So they rewarded that effort with a pay cut . That was a real insult. 

 

He negotiated and agreed to the pay cut.  If he found it insulting he could have simply turned the Bills down.  That they offered him a deal he now wishes he hadn't accepted is hardly bad conduct by the Bills. 

 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It's not a two way street though. Richie earned a new contract and that wasn't honored. 

 

I always have a hard time siding with teams over these things because of the way they treat players in relation to other sports. Richie plays good, earns a contract extension. A couple years later, they say, nevermind I don't want to pay that. It's just so warped to me, so all of you who say Richie should honor the contract he signed, the Bills didn't do that first. 

 

So when the Bills do this it's just the nature of the business, and when a player does it they get called all sorts of names, told their spoiled and to be happy with what they make now. All these teams are making way more money than any player and turn around and ask for money back from the players, and the public. They are the spoiled ones.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Richie personally, it just happens he's in a situation where I tend to side with the player. 

 

Then your not smart. If you tend to side with the player. 

 

This was a negotiated pay cut. It was negotiated and signed by the TEAM and PLAYER 

 

cutting said player would fit into your scenario of honoring the contract 

[Ol Dirty B]

46 minutes ago, napmaster said:

 

There's a reasonable expectation that you will do an even better job next year based on last year's experience, and would likely deserve to be paid more, not less.  That's the real world, not professional sports.

 

I think it's a reasonable expectation that RI would have played at a lower level this coming season based on his age and with EW retiring.  Beane made him a fair offer and he agreed to it and put pen to paper.

 

 

But you're giving the team a pass. It's not like age is a random thing, they knew how old he'd be. I understand it wasn't Beanes contract, and maybe he'll prove me wrong. But teams seem to never plan on the one thing that is certain regarding players, not health, productivity, scheme fit, supporting cast... But age. You know a guy is getting older. Don't say we'll pay you X dollars on the front end when you're 34, then when we hit 34, say... actually, we're just gonna give you this.

 

It's league wide, but it's scummy.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

But you're giving the team a pass. It's not like age is a random thing, they knew how old he'd be. I understand it wasn't Beanes contract, and maybe he'll prove me wrong. But teams seem to never plan on the one thing that is certain regarding players, not health, productivity, scheme fit, supporting cast... But age. You know a guy is getting older. Don't say we'll pay you X dollars on the front end when you're 34, then when we hit 34, say... actually, we're just gonna give you this.

 

It's league wide, but it's scummy.

 

Team approaches player says we need to relook your contract. 

 

NEGOTIATION between PLAYER and TEAM started. 

 

Now 35 year old OG takes some Guaranteed Money upfront but overall lowers his pay. 

 

PLAYER signs it. 

 

How is that a team not honoring the contract again???

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Then your not smart. If you tend to side with the player. 

 

This was a negotiated pay cut. It was negotiated and signed by the TEAM and PLAYER 

 

cutting said player would fit into your scenario of honoring the contract 

 

I agree. Fine cut him. I believe he would have made more money. 

 

I'd just rather the NFL have guaranteed contracts like the other major professional sports in North America. 

[Kwai San]

1 hour ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Nearsighted view. Benevolence that rewards performance endears employees to employers and garners loyalty.

 

Tell that to the endless trail of Pats players who were shoved aside.....yet they seem to have no problems getting people to play there.  @Hapless Bills Fan has a strong point.  The Bills win - they payers will come here - end of statement.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

It's not a two way street though. Richie earned a new contract and that wasn't honored. 

 

That's just the nature of a non-guaranteed contract, though.  The player has a right to ask for a reno or to ask to be released.  The team has a right to ask for a reno or to release the player.

 

If you think all NFL contracts should be guaranteed, that's your right, though it's tough on teams to do that under a salary cap system.

 

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I always have a hard time siding with teams over these things because of the way they treat players in relation to other sports. Richie plays good, earns a contract extension. A couple years later, they say, nevermind I don't want to pay that. It's just so warped to me, so all of you who say Richie should honor the contract he signed, the Bills didn't do that first. 

 

We just have to disagree on that.  The Bills did not offer Richie a guaranteed contract.  They had the right to release him under the contract; executing one of the terms of a contract is not failing to honor it IMO.

 

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

So when the Bills do this it's just the nature of the business, and when a player does it they get called all sorts of names, told their spoiled and to be happy with what they make now. All these teams are making way more money than any player and turn around and ask for money back from the players, and the public. They are the spoiled ones.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Richie personally, it just happens he's in a situation where I tend to side with the player. 

 

I'd have complete sympathy with Richie if he refused to sign the restructure contract and just said "either honor it, or release me and I'll look for my market value"

But to agree to, and sign on, a restructure and then go nutsoid doing your bizness on Twitter in public - nope, no sympathy here.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I agree. Fine cut him. I believe he would have made more money. 

 

I'd just rather the NFL have guaranteed contracts like the other major professional sports in North America. 

 

Nope he signed a contract. Then wants to play the f f games. 

 

He rots on the retired list.

 

fully guaranteed contracts are the hell of sports 

[napmaster]

4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

But you're giving the team a pass. It's not like age is a random thing, they knew how old he'd be. I understand it wasn't Beanes contract, and maybe he'll prove me wrong. But teams seem to never plan on the one thing that is certain regarding players, not health, productivity, scheme fit, supporting cast... But age. You know a guy is getting older. Don't say we'll pay you X dollars on the front end when you're 34, then when we hit 34, say... actually, we're just gonna give you this.

 

It's league wide, but it's scummy.

 

Both valid points.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I'd just rather the NFL have guaranteed contracts like the other major professional sports in North America. 

 

I'm ignorant here, educate me: do the other major professional sports in NA have team salary caps where injury guarantees etc fall under the cap?

[Ol Dirty B]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Team approaches player says we need to relook your contract. 

 

NEGOTIATION between PLAYER and TEAM started. 

 

Now 35 year old OG takes some Guaranteed Money upfront but overall lowers his pay. 

 

PLAYER signs it. 

 

How is that a team not honoring the contract again???

 

Look, I believe in guaranteed contracts for the player. Renegotiating a contract is not honoring it in my opinion. It's idealistic and probably will never happen, but it's what I believe in.

 

I've never renegotiated anything I owe people. I pay them what I agreed upon. I don't see what is hard about asking a billionaire and I understand the salary cap makes money more finite, that said, an organization like the Bills should be able to manage their money.

 

You and me have salary caps every day in life and we manage it.

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Beast]

Just like Boldin, no.

 

Buffalo gave Incognito a chance to return to this league. Yes, he has reqarded the Bills by playing great but to show no loyalty is a bit revolting.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Look, I believe in guaranteed contracts for the player. Renegotiating a contract is not honoring it in my opinion. It's idealistic and probably will never happen, but it's what I believe in.

 

I've never renegotiated anything I owe people. I pay them what I agreed upon. I don't see what is hard about asking a billionaire and I understand the salary cap makes money more finite, that said, an organization like the Bills should be able to manage their money.

 

You and me have salary caps every day in life and we manage it. 

 

Look, I believe in guaranteed contracts for the player. Renegotiating a contract is not honoring it in my opinion. It's idealistic and probably will never happen, but it's what I believe in.

 

I've never renegotiated anything I owe people. I pay them what I agreed upon. I don't see what is hard about asking a billionaire and I understand the salary cap makes money more finite, that said, an organization like the Bills should be able to manage their money.

 

You and me have salary caps every day in life and we manage it. 

 

Cool so you believe an employer should never go to a employee and renogotiate a contract. 

 

Are you ok with a player wanting to renogotiate his contract or a team wanting to re-sign (renogotiate) or even offer pay raises (more renogotiation). 

 

For the RECORD Bills owed NOTHING this year on that contract. His SERVICES for this year have NOT been performed 

Edited April 15, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Victory Formation]

38 minutes ago, Dalton said:

Why?  No benefit to Bills.

 

Please explain why.

 

Headcase, doesn't want to be here, don't need his poor attitude effecting the locker room and other players. Have him pay back the bonus and move on.

[Ol Dirty B]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm ignorant here, educate me: do the other major professional sports in NA have team salary caps where injury guarantees etc fall under the cap?

 

I'm more familiar with the NBA, but they have a couple provisions where you can get the money off the cap. They're given one amnesty per CBA where they can just release and pay a guy for no reason and it doesn't count against the cap. I believe their is another way, I'll read up on it if you want, where a guy can be released due to injury and not count on the cap. I believe it was the case with Chris Bosh and his reoccurring blood clots. However, in the NBA injured players count against the cap.

 

It'll never happen in the NFL and is way more complicated to make a reality in that league. It's just a principle I believe in. I understand it's not necessarily practical.

 

Hence the reason I usually side with the player. I understand a lot of you disagree and you're all making legitimate points.

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Cool so you believe an employer should never go to a employee and renogotiate a contract. 

 

Are you ok with a player wanting to renogotiate his contract or a team wanting to re-sign (renogotiate) or even offer pay raises (more renogotiation). 

 

For the RECORD Bills owed NOTHING this year on that contract. His SERVICES for this year have NOT been performed 

 

Dude you're getting way too into this, read what I posted above.

 

And when does a team ever just say, hey, you played good let's give you more money. They never do, look at the philosophy formed about taking advantage of building a team around an underpaid QB on his rookie contract.  

 

If contracts were fully guaranteed, then no, a player shouldn't hold out. But they aren't, which goes into my point on why it's not a two way street and I'm fine with guys holding out or asking for money. Because that's what they are doing, asking. The teams aren't asking, they're telling you it's this amount to leave or even nothing, or you can take this, your choice.

 

The capitalized words are obnoxious.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Manther]

19 minutes ago, Robert James said:

 

He negotiated and agreed to the pay cut.  If he found it insulting he could have simply turned the Bills down.  That they offered him a deal he now wishes he hadn't accepted is hardly bad conduct by the Bills. 

 

Agreed.  At that point he and his agent (I am assuming) thought the money (after the pay cut) from the Bills was still more than he would get on the open market and/or/combination that staying in Buffalo for close to what he would get on the open market was worth it.

[cba fan]

2 hours ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Nearsighted view. Benevolence that rewards performance endears employees to employers and garners loyalty.

He said you get what you are worth. So poster agrees with you.

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I'm more familiar with the NBA, but they have a couple provisions where you can get the money off the cap. They're given one amnesty per CBA where they can just release and pay a guy for no reason and it doesn't count against the cap. I believe their is another way, I'll read up on it if you want, where a guy can be released due to injury and not count on the cap. I believe it was the case with Chris Bosh and his reoccurring blood clots. However, in the NBA injured players count against the cap.

 

It'll never happen in the NFL and is way more complicated to make a reality in that league. It's just a principle I believe in. I understand it's not necessarily practical.

 

Hence the reason I usually side with the player. I understand a lot of you disagree and you're all making legitimate points.

 

Dude you're getting way too into this, read what I posted above.

 

And when does a team ever just say, hey, you played good let's give you more money. They never do, look at the philosophy formed about taking advantage of building a team around an underpaid QB on his rookie contract.

 

Sure last Summer Eric Wood

Kyle Williams ring a bell

TT ring a bell 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by MAJBobby

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Not the brightest bulb in the box, signs deal, thinks about it, fires agent, retires, un-retires, asks for release.

Sounds like drugs to me

Or Bipolar- in his manic state!

[Kwai San]

2 hours ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Nearsighted view. Benevolence that rewards performance endears employees to employers and garners loyalty.

 

Tell that to the endless trail of Pats players who were shoved aside.....yet they seem to have no problems getting people to play there.  @Hapless Bills Fan has a strong point.  The Bills win - they payers will come here - end of statement.