McDermott: NFL is a “drop-back league”

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

What scares me is it might be Rudolph...In regards to whoever we take I will root like hell for them, until they demonstrate that the suck of course...

 

It really is a crucial draft for us, if we miss on the QB it will mostly likely be 2020 for our next shot...

With this roster and no Tyrod I'd hate them giving up the 19' first next month. This thing could be ugly and giving away a top 5 pick would be a kick in between the legs.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lol. They want a young Tom Brady. Smart, tall, driven, ultra competitive, gets ball out fast. Knows where he’s going pre-snap. As another poster said, Rosen up top and Lauletta as a fall back seem to fall into the mold.  Darnold really is much more improvisational. 

 

Mobility is a “nice to have” but not required.  Just my interpretation.

it really took Brady 3 or 4 years to become a good to great passer.  

 

The Pats* were a champion team when Drew got hurt and when Tommy played they featured a run offense.  

Season 2 they tried to let Tommy pass and they missed the playoffs

Season 3 they featured a run offense again and made the playoffs 

Season 4 Tommy "got it"   along with all the Patriotism and Tuck Rules and Spy Gate and destroyed tapes 

[CookieG]

If he wants a "pocket passer", they might consider getting improvement in the OL, esp. the right side. Bodine and Newhouse aren't it.  And hell, there are people wondering whether Mills 'tanked"" when pocket passer Peterman went in against SD.

 

First prerequisite for a pocket passer is an actual pocket.

[Reed83HOF]

5 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

With this roster and no Tyrod I'd hate them giving up the 19' first next month. This thing could be ugly and giving away a top 5 pick would be a kick in between the legs.

Scares the hell out of me as well, especially with a great pass rushing class coming up. I just hope our FO & scouts are good enough in identifying a QB if we move up and we chose correctly...

Just now, CookieG said:

If he wants a "pocket passer", they might consider getting improvement in the OL, esp. the right side. Bodine and Newhouse aren't it.  And hell, there are people wondering whether Mills 'tanked"" when pocket passer Peterman went in against SD.

 

First prerequisite for a pocket passer is an actual pocket.

Through AJ & Nate to the wolves this year...

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

Actually he was associated with Delhomme as well - he has been there quite awhile...

 

I guarantee he takes Cam and his running and throwing over Delhomme's "drop back", no matter what he says now...

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

it really took Brady 3 or 4 years to become a good to great passer.  

 

The Pats* were a champion team when Drew got hurt and when Tommy played they featured a run offense.  

Season 2 they tried to let Tommy pass and they missed the playoffs

Season 3 they featured a run offense again and made the playoffs 

Season 4 Tommy "got it"   along with all the Patriotism and Tuck Rules and Spy Gate and destroyed tapes 

Agree it took him awhile. But he was a 6th rd pick for a reason. 

[Max Fischer]

5 hours ago, mjt328 said:

The only guy I can't see the Bills being interested in is Lamar Jackson.

 

His game is almost identical to Tyrod Taylor's.  He's definitely got a stronger arm, and is slower as a runner.  But their styles are the same.

 

Jackson's abilities will be enhanced by a creative Offensive Coordinator, who is willing to incorporate lots of roll-outs, the occasional read-option and some designed QB runs.  That was everything we tried to move away from last year.

 

Not identical at all and LJ is (much) faster than TT,  running a 4.34 last March. 

 

[eball]

6 hours ago, mjt328 said:

The only guy I can't see the Bills being interested in is Lamar Jackson.

 

His game is almost identical to Tyrod Taylor's.  He's definitely got a stronger arm, and is slower as a runner.  But their styles are the same.

 

Jackson's abilities will be enhanced by a creative Offensive Coordinator, who is willing to incorporate lots of roll-outs, the occasional read-option and some designed QB runs.  That was everything we tried to move away from last year.

 

Terrible take.  I cringe every time I read a "LJ is like TT" post -- so lazy.

 

Regardless, you state that LJ wouldn't be a good fit for what the Bills did on offense last year without mentioning that they ****-canned that OC and went to one who just spent a year in the college game and would probably relish adding those features into the offense.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Beane does not want a QB that plays from the sandlot, he wants a guy who on 3rd down stands in the pocket and delivers the ball, He also is concerned with running QBs and this hits they take. If you read what Beane looks for in a QB - it is not Jackson at ll...Search the forum this has already been discussed...

Go back to Beane's interviews when he was hired last May, he was pretty specific that finding a franchise QB is a top priority and what he looks for in a QB. These quotes actually line up pretty well with it...

Darnold, Allen, Rosen and even Mayfield have to be up there. I'm curious as to how the have Rudolph & Jackson ranked...Rudolph seems to check most of Beane's boxes, however Jackson is a great athlete. I would love to be able to hear what here thinking is if it came down between those 2....

This is just my opinion but I think if he can't move up and all the top tier qbs are gone he would consider drafting Rudolph ahead of Jackson with his second first round pick. I lean toward that position because it seems that Rudolph more than Jackson mesh with his profile from a physical standard. I like Jackson a lot. What I look for in a qb and a player is progress and development. Jackson took a leap forward from his prior year. He may be a project but he can turn out to be the most electrifying qb in this class. 

 

I have said this a number of times that I'm not wedded to any player or approach as to how a player is acquired. My only adamant stand is that the Bills come out of this draft with a high end qb prospect. If option A is not available then go to B, and if B is not available then go  to C, etc. etc.  

[mjt328]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Terrible take.  I cringe every time I read a "LJ is like TT" post -- so lazy.

 

Regardless, you state that LJ wouldn't be a good fit for what the Bills did on offense last year without mentioning that they ****-canned that OC and went to one who just spent a year in the college game and would probably relish adding those features into the offense.

 

Oh please.  There is nothing "lazy" about comparing Lamar Jackson to Tyrod Taylor. 

In today's NFL, I can't think of another quarterback he is more similar to.

 

They are virtually identical in size.  Taylor is 6'1, 215 lbs.  Jackson is 6'2, 216 lbs.

Both are excellent runners.  Both are very athletic.  Both are very fast.  Both are very elusive.

Despite being mobile, both have questionable pocket presence and struggle keeping their eyes downfield when rushed.

Neither does a great job of going through multiple progressions and making timing/anticipatory throws.

Both have strong arms.  But both have issues with accuracy.

 

Yes, I realize we have a new OC.  And I don't care. 

I don't want to deal with ANOTHER quarterback that needs to have an offense specifically designed around his "special" talents.  Even if Brian Daboll caters his system to Lamar Jackson, then what about the next guy?  And what about the guy after that?  Virtually all of the coordinators in this league know how to use a pocket passer, and prefer pocket passers.  The few guys who can (and are willing to) change are hard to find. 

 

43 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

Not identical at all and LJ is (much) faster than TT,  running a 4.34 last March.

 

1 hour ago, Elite Poster said:

You've never seen him play.

 

Actually, I've seen Lamar Jackson play quite a bit.

If his style of play, strengths and weaknesses are not similar to Tyrod Taylor's, please explain how they are SO different.

 

Saying Taylor is less than 2 tenths of a second slower in his (unofficial) 40 time is not a great example.

 

 

 

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Wow!    The invaluable Peterman is now dictating what offense the Bills are going to build around??      smh...

Clearly McCarron does am I right?

[sven233]

2 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

I think they guy they covet REALLY is Allen. The problem is that he is likely the guy that the Browns like too.

 

Actually, the real problem is that there is a real good chance he isn't any good......

[Blokestradamus]

17 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Oh please.  There is nothing "lazy" about comparing Lamar Jackson to Tyrod Taylor.

 

 

I bear no ill will or animosity; I just have one question.

 

Are you comparing Lamar to Tyrod as a prospect or to Tyrod as a guy with 7 years of time in the NFL? I think the difference in distinction is enormous.

[Reed83HOF]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

This is just my opinion but I think if he can't move up and all the top tier qbs are gone he would consider drafting Rudolph ahead of Jackson with his second first round pick. I lean toward that position because it seems that Rudolph more than Jackson mesh with his profile from a physical standard. I like Jackson a lot. What I look for in a qb and a player is progress and development. Jackson took a leap forward from his prior year. He may be a project but he can turn out to be the most electrifying qb in this class. 

 

I have said this a number of times that I'm not wedded to any player or approach as to how a player is acquired. My only adamant stand is that the Bills come out of this draft with a high end qb prospect. If option A is not available then go to B, and if B is not available then go  to C, etc. etc.  

 

I agree...I'm very worried about ending up with plan C and down from there.My assumption is that plans A&B include a lot of picks and the Browns & Giants and that C involves trading up for scraps. The high-end prospects are the big 4. Jackson & Rudolph are the next tier imo and this is where I have a hard time with Jackson and Rudolph. Mason checks a lot of boxes, where Jackson doesn't, but Jackson is a much better athlete. I'm not sure how they will quantify one over another. 

 

I do think whoever we chose should match whatever scheme/style of play we plan on running for the next few years. To me (and I'm an !@#$) but I see a traditional offense is what we want and that is Mason as opposed to the more "sandlot style" with Jackson. I'm not necessarily comparing TT and Jackson, but the move to Peterman was 2 fold, TT was not effective and the style of offense we were playing left too many plays on the field. Dyanimc QBs come with a host of issues, but the key is developing to be a great passer and to become pass first; not many are able to do that successfully. That style off offense doesn't necessarily suit AJ or Nate and if Jackson got injured, it changes your offense a bit when a more traditional guy comes in. I think you have to look at that entire offensive package to make sure all of your players can execute that scheme (it's more than the Perkins scheme, it's how the players actually play on the field). I hope I said this right...

 

 

[Bills Freak]

6 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

The target is Josh Allen always was and always will be. 

Why?, That would infer the "only" attributes important to the Bills are size & potential. I like the kid but just don't understand the hype for him.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Allen to Buffalo would ruin my draft night.  I eventually would learn to accept it because I'll pull for anyone on the Bills but it would take me awhile.  

 

Me too. I'd eventually talk myself into it because I'm a homer and a sucker but man it would be rough.

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Me too. I'd eventually talk myself into it because I'm a homer and a sucker but man it would be rough.

That guy for me is Sam Darnold. I’m trying so hard to talk myself into liking him.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That guy for me is Sam Darnold. I’m trying so hard to talk myself into liking him.

 

Just watch his game tape v Penn State. Unreal!

[Blokestradamus]

4 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Just watch his game tape v Penn State. Unreal!

 

 

Just don't watch the Washington State game this year.

 

[greeneblitz]

finally, after all these years a smart coach

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Sounds like a little bit Sam Darnold?

[Jasovon]

22 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That guy for me is Sam Darnold. I’m trying so hard to talk myself into liking him.

Yeah me too. I just can't help but think he's going to be a massive bust.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

Oh please.  There is nothing "lazy" about comparing Lamar Jackson to Tyrod Taylor. 

In today's NFL, I can't think of another quarterback he is more similar to.

Lamar is closer to D. Watson then he is Tyrod Taylor

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

They are virtually identical in size.  Taylor is 6'1, 215 lbs.  Jackson is 6'2, 216 lbs.

Both are excellent runners.  Both are very athletic.  Both are very fast.  Both are very elusive.

true

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Despite being mobile, both have questionable pocket presence and struggle keeping their eyes downfield when rushed.

If you had done your homework you would see that Lamar actually DOES keep his eyes downfield......and he is not a "run at the first sign of pressure" qb.....often holding the ball and taking a hit while throwing it.

 

The majority of Lamar's runs are by design.....not from escaping a breaking pocket.

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Neither does a great job of going through multiple progressions and making timing/anticipatory throws.

Both have strong arms.  But both have issues with accuracy.

I see a lot more slants and over the middle throws from Lamar then I EVER did from TT.    Also.....the passing TD productivity is really not comparable.  That is why TT was a 5th round pick who needed to come in and get more work to reach his ceiling and lamar is considered a high pick who got better every year of college.

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

Yes, I realize we have a new OC.  And I don't care. 

Well you SHOULD care because Dabol runs an offense that suits a dynamic playmaking QB

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

I don't want to deal with ANOTHER quarterback that needs to have an offense specifically designed around his "special" talents.  Even if Brian Daboll caters his system to Lamar Jackson, then what about the next guy?  And what about the guy after that?  Virtually all of the coordinators in this league know how to use a pocket passer, and prefer pocket passers.  The few guys who can (and are willing to) change are hard to find. 

The texans are really hating D. Watson

 

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

 

[Fadingpain]

Yep, it is a drop back league.

 

Has been for quite a long time.  

 

Like, forever.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

QBs need to be able to drop back and throw? 

 

Interesting....

 

Yep.  We didn’t have one last year that could do it effectively or consistently.

[1billsfan]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Lamar is closer to D. Watson then he is Tyrod Taylor

true

If you had done your homework you would see that Lamar actually DOES keep his eyes downfield......and he is not a "run at the first sign of pressure" qb.....often holding the ball and taking a hit while throwing it.

 

The majority of Lamar's runs are by design.....not from escaping a breaking pocket.

I see a lot more slants and over the middle throws from Lamar then I EVER did from TT.    Also.....the passing TD productivity is really not comparable.  That is why TT was a 5th round pick who needed to come in and get more work to reach his ceiling and lamar is considered a high pick who got better every year of college.

Well you SHOULD care because Dabol runs an offense that suits a dynamic playmaking QB

The texans are really hating D. Watson

 

 

 

I just got done watching Jackson's game vs Clemson in 2016 and in my opinion Tyrod Taylor is about 20% the player of Lamar Jackson. What I mean by that is that while they play the same type of "dual threat" style of QBing, Jackson looks like a Superman and Taylor looks like a plain ordinary person. People need to watch this stuff and stop with the comparisons of Taylor...

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Agree it took him awhile. But he was a 6th rd pick for a reason. 

My point is it takes a few years to develop and some instantaneous “judgments” can be very wrong.  

 

Troy Aichman started 1-13 or something there about. 

 

It’s AJs turn.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

That was nice and something we really haven’t seen in a few years.  Anticipation and throwing a WR open.

I think it was Gretzky that said he doesn’t pass the puck where you’re at, I’m passing it where you’ll be.

[Bills Freak]

3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

LOL I don't think anyone is looking for a statue! They do want someone who can move around in the pocket and make a play. I believe (I could very easily be wrong) when you couple escapability and stand in the pocket to throw along with his other statements (about staying in there until the last second when you can't run, not sandlot football, Cam taking a beating etc.), I'm still not sure you get to Lamar - You actually get a lot closer to Allen & Darnold JMO of course...

 

For me it isn't about the player that excites me, right now, it is actually the game of trying to figure out who fits what we know so far, from past statements, repetitive statements, etc.. It is Lamar personally, he feels to me a little more like the square peg...BY all means we could draft him if he is the highest rated player on our board, but I don't think that necessarily fits what they are looking for. Sometimes you can't get what you want...

 

I follow you completely. Lamar J.  ran mostly from designed plays though  (to the tune of 70% or better). Not that I'm advocating for him (4th choice personally) but it appears he gets stereotyped here pretty heavily though. I think he has a chance w/ the right system & coaching

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

To me that's a smokescreen sign

[Bills Freak]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 Best Option I believe. Hope we can get him though.

[peterpan]

8 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Next sentence: Lamar Jackson is a great drop-back QB!!

He is actually much much better than anyone gives him credit for.

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, peterpan said:

He is actually much much better than anyone gives him credit for.

I thinks he’s really good as well. I definitely wouldn’t compare him to Tyrod. I would compare him to RG3 (as a prospect).

Edited March 27, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[1billsfan]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I thinks he’s really good as well. I definitely wouldn’t compare him to Tyrod. I would compare him to RG3. 

 

I'd compare him to DeShaun Watson. Watson has better throwing mechanics, but Jackson looks much faster and has better cutting ability.

 

I have little doubts that Dabol would get Jackson very near Watson's playing level (before injury) by season's end. He would insert the same offense that the Texans used for Watson.

 

 

[gobills1212]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Lamar is closer to D. Watson then he is Tyrod Taylor

true

If you had done your homework you would see that Lamar actually DOES keep his eyes downfield......and he is not a "run at the first sign of pressure" qb.....often holding the ball and taking a hit while throwing it.

 

The majority of Lamar's runs are by design.....not from escaping a breaking pocket.

I see a lot more slants and over the middle throws from Lamar then I EVER did from TT.    Also.....the passing TD productivity is really not comparable.  That is why TT was a 5th round pick who needed to come in and get more work to reach his ceiling and lamar is considered a high pick who got better every year of college.

Well you SHOULD care because Dabol runs an offense that suits a dynamic playmaking QB

The texans are really hating D. Watson

 

 

You like Lamar Jackson?

[Max Fischer]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Oh please.  There is nothing "lazy" about comparing Lamar Jackson to Tyrod Taylor. 

In today's NFL, I can't think of another quarterback he is more similar to.

 

They are virtually identical in size.  Taylor is 6'1, 215 lbs.  Jackson is 6'2, 216 lbs.

Both are excellent runners.  Both are very athletic.  Both are very fast.  Both are very elusive.

Despite being mobile, both have questionable pocket presence and struggle keeping their eyes downfield when rushed.

Neither does a great job of going through multiple progressions and making timing/anticipatory throws.

Both have strong arms.  But both have issues with accuracy.

 

Yes, I realize we have a new OC.  And I don't care. 

I don't want to deal with ANOTHER quarterback that needs to have an offense specifically designed around his "special" talents.  Even if Brian Daboll caters his system to Lamar Jackson, then what about the next guy?  And what about the guy after that?  Virtually all of the coordinators in this league know how to use a pocket passer, and prefer pocket passers.  The few guys who can (and are willing to) change are hard to find. 

 

 

 

Actually, I've seen Lamar Jackson play quite a bit.

If his style of play, strengths and weaknesses are not similar to Tyrod Taylor's, please explain how they are SO different.

 

Saying Taylor is less than 2 tenths of a second slower in his (unofficial) 40 time is not a great example.

 

 

 

 

You may not be familiar with speed times, but two tenths is lifetime.  

 

If you've seen LJ play so much and not see the differences, I don't know what to tell you.  

 

[YoloinOhio]

27 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

You may not be familiar with speed times, but two tenths is lifetime.  

 

If you've seen LJ play so much and not see the differences, I don't know what to tell you.  

 

I agree. There is a guy similar to Tyrod in the draft (just slower and less accurate). JT Barrett ya’ll.

[mjt328]

15 hours ago, Blokestradamus said:

I bear no ill will or animosity; I just have one question.

 

Are you comparing Lamar to Tyrod as a prospect or to Tyrod as a guy with 7 years of time in the NFL? I think the difference in distinction is enormous.

 

I'm saying they have similar "styles" to the way they play the QB position. 

I'm saying they are strong in most of the same areas. 

I'm saying they are weak in the same areas.

 

To me, when you compare QBs, those are the places you need to start in.  Just because I believe they are very similar DOES NOT mean that I believe Jackson can't become a better NFL player than Taylor. 

 

To look at the opposite end of the spectrum, you have a player like Josh Rosen.  His strengths are accuracy, timing, anticipation and progressing through his leads.  But the guy is very immobile and is strictly a pocket passer.  His arm and athletic talent is very average.  In my opinion, he is going to be more similar to guys like Tom Brady or Matt Ryan.  I'm not trying to say his ceiling/floor will be anything close to those guys.  I'm saying their styles, strengths and weaknesses are similar.

 

Even if people HATE the Taylor comparison, they have to admit that coaches would be wasting Lamar Jackson's talent by putting him into a traditional pocket-passer role.  He will be better when his mobility is taken advantage of.  I have no idea what Brian Daboll has in mind for this offense.  But I know that our Head Coach allowed Daboll's predecessor to force players into roles that didn't fit player strengths.  And most OCs in this league are going to have the same mentality.  If we are drafting a franchise QB for the long-haul, I would prefer to have a traditional pocket passer, who relies more on accuracy/timing/anticipation than athletic ability.

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, eball said:

 

But if you try sometimes you find, you get what you need...

 

I always need more Rolling Stones!!

16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Lamar is closer to D. Watson then he is Tyrod Taylor

 

To me he is pretty much bang smack mid point between the two.