Who is your "not with a 10 foot pole" first round pick?

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Understand that I haven't read that, so I'm taking your word for it.

 

That said, if an "unnamed team" told a reporter that a guy didn't acquit himself well on the white board, it could be true, or it could be nonsense.  This is a time for misinformation.

 

I have Jackson as my QB4, but one of the things that I liked about his improved passing from So to Jr season is that he showed the ability to read the whole field and manipulate DBs with his progression.  It would surprise me if he were substantially behind the other guys--especially Darnold, who made mostly half-field, RPO, hi-lo style reads.

I don't like Darnold either he looked stiff every time I watched him.

 

Breer does a radio interview on the sports hub, that's where he said it this morning. As good as Allen threw it sounds like he left a lot to be desired in the classroom. Then said if Mayfield was 6'4 this thing wouldn't even be close come draft day. 

 

You can take it how you want with Jackson and Allen but anyone that listened to that interview would get the impression that Jackson/Allen are both DUMB. Breer is very direct in his interviews, almost unprofessionally so for a guy that is working for SI. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Vick had a pretty good career. 

 

Tebow wasn’t the best athlete in the draft!! He threw the ball like a girl. Jackson has a cannon. 

 

I’m not saying that Jackson will be good or bad but he has little (to nothing) in common with Tebow as a prospect. He has a lot of Vick in him. He has a high-ceiling and low-floor. Allen is the same way IMO.

 

Makes sense- and who wants to gamble with first round picks? Bills have the picks to get some very solid starters across the roster. Pick up the low floor high ceiling guys when the drop into the right place. 

16 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yep. Tebows throwing motion was red flagged from the outset. 

 

Geeze man that throwing motion was probably flagged in peewee... with a shrug and a “oh well guess it works for him” 

[metzelaars_lives]

As a Wyoming football fan, I'm not saying that Josh Allen is an ultra safe bet to succeed in the NFL and I definitely think he'd be best-served going to a team like San Diego and sitting for a couple years (in which case I think he absolutely would succeed) but the degree to which people are scoffing at him on here is really, really ignorant.  My closest comparison for Allen is Cam Newton and it reminds me a lot of when like 50% of this website was all "bwahahahaha I can't believe Carolina is actually taking Newton at 1, what a bunch of morons lolz."

Edited March 5, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[Pete]

Arden Key

Orlando Brown

overpaying for any player

 

Let's go BPA and value!

[CommonCents]

Then you have this from Doug Gottleib 

 

http://thespun.com/acc/louisville/lamar-jackson-project-nfl-gm/amp

 

I found this while trying to find if the Hub archives their interviews daily. Interesting that his information matches Breer's.

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

There is also the age concerns with Ridley. His developmental curve probably doesn't last as long as most of the class as a professional.

Yup, the age thing can be a concern, however he’d only be 1 1/2 months older than Kelvin Benjamin was when drafted.

[Blokestradamus]

2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yup, the age thing can be a concern, however he’d only be 1 1/2 months older than Kelvin Benjamin was when drafted.

 

Ridley does have one advantage over Kelvin. He's good at football.

[TheElectricCompany]

I just cannot get excited about Josh Allen. 

Seems like nothing more than a big guy with a big arm. 

 

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, Blokestradamus said:

Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph, Orlando Brown.

 

I'll also channel my inner Bill From NYC and say any DB. More of a roster management issue than anything talent related.

Blokes, what don't you like about Mason Rudolph?  I know he is kind of a "blah" prospect with a relatively lower ceiling than several others, but he has size, was productive and (supposedly) impressed teams with his football knowledge when they interviewed him.

 

I know he doesn't have the strongest of arms, but it appears adequate from what I've seen.

[Jay_Fixit]

5 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

Ridley does have one advantage over Kelvin. He's good at football.

True. He can even like run routes and stuff. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Makes sense- and who wants to gamble with first round picks? Bills have the picks to get some very solid starters across the roster. Pick up the low floor high ceiling guys when the drop into the right place. 

 

Geeze man that throwing motion was probably flagged in peewee... with a shrug and a “oh well guess it works for him” 

I agree, I’m not advocating the boom or bust guys. Just saying that it is weird that the same people that hate the high floor low ceiling guy that the Bills have hate the low floor high ceiling guys in the draft. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[DCOrange]

29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He's not an extremely poor athlete, which was the point that I was addressing.

 

I don't think anyone would call Antonio Brown an extremely poor athlete, and Ridley's athletic numbers are quite close to (and in more than half the drills, better than) Brown's.

 

Now I'm not saying that your opinion of him not being worth a high 1st round pick is unjustified; I'm saying that calling him an extremely poor athlete is not accurate.

 

He absolutely is. He literally tested out in the 7th percentile of NFL WRs.

 

For perspective, over the past 3 drafts, these are the WRs that you may have heard of that tested as poorly (even ignoring the age part of the issue):

Pharaoh Cooper

Rashard Higgins

 

That's the whole list. They have a combined 58 catches in 57 games.

 

Edit: Is it possible that Ridley overcomes his lack of athleticism and becomes a productive WR anyways? Sure. But I'm just not interested in taking a guy with his athleticism and age in the 1st round.

Edited March 5, 2018 by DCOrange

[John from Riverside]

39 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Yeah let's ignore the fact that this ultra productive college QB struggles understanding plays on a whiteboard! I'm sure he will be better understanding plays when 300 pound monsters are chasing him!

 

Yikes!! 

You should football more

 

They run the PATRIOTS offense at his school....for christ sake.

 

Im willing to listen to legit arguements on why NOT to wait till 21 and draft the kid but keep hearing garbage like this

[Logic]

Josh Allen.

Let's see: Perfect QB physique, huge arm, no accuracy. Where have I heard this one before....Oh right! The last two first round QBs we drafted!

[CommonCents]

11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You should football more

 

They run the PATRIOTS offense at his school....for christ sake.

 

Im willing to listen to legit arguements on why NOT to wait till 21 and draft the kid but keep hearing garbage like this

New name same pile. 

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

New name same pile. 

That totally helps your non existant stance on Lamar Jackson

[CommonCents]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

That totally helps your non existant stance on Lamar Jackson

You're not looking for a conversation, you are foaming at the mouth and in love with a player you have probably only watched on highlights reels. Carry on. 

 

Lamar won't be coming to Buffalo, I will be waiting for that melt down that will never come because as soon as they draft someone else you will be all aboard that ship!

[2003Contenders]

45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You should football more

 

They run the PATRIOTS offense at his school....for christ sake.

 

Im willing to listen to legit arguements on why NOT to wait till 21 and draft the kid but keep hearing garbage like this

 

Almost makes me wonder if the Pats are leaking stuff to reporters like Breer in hopes that Jackson will fall in the draft.

[John from Riverside]

26 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

You're not looking for a conversation, you are foaming at the mouth and in love with a player you have probably only watched on highlights reels. Carry on. 

 

Lamar won't be coming to Buffalo, I will be waiting for that melt down that will never come because as soon as they draft someone else you will be all aboard that ship!

OMFG

 

Not only do you post completely uneducated WRONG information on players and base your evaluations (if you want to call them that) on wrong information

 

You also have a reading comp problem.....I have firmly said that Lamar is my fall back player if the trade up for Rosen or Mayfield cannot be completed (which it may wll not be...the gape betwen 21 and 22 to top 5 is HUGE.

 

I think it will be you that will be crying that you did not get your player.....not me

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Hot takes abound on this thread today:

 

So far I've been told.....

 

Calvin Ridley is old and un-athletic

Josh Allen=Ryan Leaf

Josh Rosen is a social justice type

Lamar Jackson has trouble understanding plays

Kelvin Benjamin is not good at football

 

And Commensense can't even answer why Vander Esch was only a one year starter, but still a first round beast

 

Well that was fun....

 

 

[thebandit27]

33 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

He absolutely is. He literally tested out in the 7th percentile of NFL WRs.

 

For perspective, over the past 3 drafts, these are the WRs that you may have heard of that tested as poorly (even ignoring the age part of the issue):

Pharaoh Cooper

Rashard Higgins

 

That's the whole list. They have a combined 58 catches in 57 games.

 

Edit: Is it possible that Ridley overcomes his lack of athleticism and becomes a productive WR anyways? Sure. But I'm just not interested in taking a guy with his athleticism and age in the 1st round.

 

No, he rated in the 7th percentile in a weighted score that is used to express one rating system's assessment of a player's NFL potential.

 

It's also worth asking if SPARQ actually has any correlation to becoming a quality NFL receiver?  From my cursory looks over the years, it doesn't.  Also, go back to 2014, and you'll find that Ridley's SPARQ rating is nearly identical to Allen Hurns'.  Also, just for fun: 2nd-worst SPARQ score in the 2014 class?  Jarvis Landry.

 

So what's the point?  The point isn't that I think Ridley is going to be a WR1 in the NFL.  The point is that he isn't an extremely poor athlete because one rating system places more emphasis on the vertical jump and broad jump and less on the 40 and 3-cone.  The only reason that SPARQ ratings and the like are even part of the discussion is because the raw numbers for workout drills have almost no correlation to on-field production.

[dlonce]

Lamar Jackson is a guy I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole.

Im positive the Bills will pass on him.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

As for Calvin Ridley:

When did we start giving formulas from the underwear Olympics 100% weight in evaluating a player!

When did separation skills, ball skills, run after catch, competitveness, toughness, productivity etc. start counting for zero?

Oh and Alabama never produces quality receivers.

 

Wow this is bad today!

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, dlonce said:

Lamar Jackson is a guy I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole.

Im positive the Bills will pass on him.

Why?

 

Or are people just gonna say this crap for no reason

[CommonCents]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

OMFG

 

Not only do you post completely uneducated WRONG information on players and base your evaluations (if you want to call them that) on wrong information

 

You also have a reading comp problem.....I have firmly said that Lamar is my fall back player if the trade up for Rosen or Mayfield cannot be completed (which it may wll not be...the gape betwen 21 and 22 to top 5 is HUGE.

 

I think it will be you that will be crying that you did not get your player.....not me

Uneducated? Wrong? You seem really emotional right now John. Is everything ok? 

 

Multiple big names in the media have come out and said the same things about Allen and Jackson. Is this the land of make believe John? Am I to believe you over guys who actually have contacts around the league? 

 

Oh I get it Jackson and Allen are so good that teams are already running misinformation so they drop in the draft. I wonder why no one is bashing Rosen, Mayfield and Darnold so they drop. 

 

The big advantage GMs have over average fans watching film and grading players is their ability to sit face to face with the players. I have always said that. I believe that is where Whaley and his scouts failed the most. Early results are out and Allen is such a rock that it overshadowed his performance on the field. Jackson is a project at the board http://thespun.com/acc/louisville/lamar-jackson-project-nfl-gm/amp

 

maybe you missed it? I know you can throw it away because it's misinformation right? How many teams met with Lamar Jackson? If he doesn't understand the plays being drawn on a board each and every team already knows. So explain the reasoning behind railroading a young man? 

 

Silly fella.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

Uneducated? Wrong? You seem really emotional right now John. Is everything ok? 

 

Multiple big names in the media have come out and said the same things about Allen and Jackson. Is this the land of make believe John? Am I to believe you over guys who actually have contacts around the league? 

 

Oh I get it Jackson and Allen are so good that teams are already running misinformation so they drop in the draft. I wonder why no one is bashing Rosen, Mayfield and Darnold so they drop. 

 

The big advantage GMs have over average fans watching film and grading players is their ability to sit face to face with the players. I have always said that. I believe that is where Whaley and his scouts failed the most. Early results are out and Allen is such a rock that it overshadowed his performance on the field. Jackson is a project at the board http://thespun.com/acc/louisville/lamar-jackson-project-nfl-gm/amp

 

maybe you missed it? I know you can throw it away because it's misinformation right? How many teams met with Lamar Jackson? If he doesn't understand the plays being drawn on a board each and every team already knows. So explain the reasoning behind railroading a young man? 

 

Silly fella.

Its intersting that your "proof" is all from one tweeter on a website nobody has heard of.....

 

Shall I pull down the multiple on line articles that refute it?  

[CommonCents]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Its intersting that your "proof" is all from one tweeter on a website nobody has heard of.....

 

Shall I pull down the multiple on line articles that refute it?  

And Albert Breer of SI said the same thing about the same two players. 

 

No John you should go find some midol and take a nap. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

And Albert Breer of SI said the same thing about the same two players. 

 

No John you should go find some midol and take a nap. 

Its so funny.....you dont have a leg to stand on but just keep at it.

 

But it is good to see that you do have at least enough reading comp to find articles at agree with your "opinion" even if you cant read before making accusations at other posters what they are thinking.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by John from Riverside

[DCOrange]

33 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No, he rated in the 7th percentile in a weighted score that is used to express one rating system's assessment of a player's NFL potential.

 

It's also worth asking if SPARQ actually has any correlation to becoming a quality NFL receiver?  From my cursory looks over the years, it doesn't.  Also, go back to 2014, and you'll find that Ridley's SPARQ rating is nearly identical to Allen Hurns'.  Also, just for fun: 2nd-worst SPARQ score in the 2014 class?  Jarvis Landry.

 

So what's the point?  The point isn't that I think Ridley is going to be a WR1 in the NFL.  The point is that he isn't an extremely poor athlete because one rating system places more emphasis on the vertical jump and broad jump and less on the 40 and 3-cone.  The only reason that SPARQ ratings and the like are even part of the discussion is because the raw numbers for workout drills have almost no correlation to on-field production.

 

I would again refer back to this:

 

This graph isn't using a formula to throw out one number that calculates a player's athleticism like SPARQ does. It simply shows how he performed relative to the rest of the position. The two possibilities here are that he had an awful day or that he's unathletic. Even ignoring the measurements (height, weight, wingspan, arm length, hand size) and simply looking at the physical testing, you can clearly see that he's a well-below average athlete compared to NFL WRs.

 

That doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to be productive, but saying that he is old and unathletic relative to NFL WRs is simply a true statement.

Edited March 5, 2018 by DCOrange

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I agree, I’m not advocating the boom or bust guys. Just saying that it is weird that the same people that hate the high floor low ceiling guy that have hate the low floor high ceiling guys in the draft. 

 

Iis not weird- I think it’s just a delusional thinking   Like somehow “franchise qb” is a super value meal item that 15-20 franchises have just been too stupid to order.

 

Like stock analysts everyone looks at the few that succeed and may that fail then try to figure what crystal ball indications were missed or correctly applied, when reality is predicting the future performance of football player is still far from a science- and the results show it.

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I would again refer back to this:

 

This graph isn't using a formula to throw out one number that calculates a player's athleticism like SPARQ does. It simply shows how he performed relative to the rest of the position. The two possibilities here are that he had an awful day or that he's unathletic. Even ignoring the measurements (height, weight, wingspan, arm length, hand size) and simply looking at the physical testing, you can clearly see that he's a well-below average athlete compared to NFL WRs.

 

That doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to be productive, but saying that he is old and unathletic relative to NFL WRs is simply a true statement.

 

I know how to read the mockdraftable charts; they aren't exactly new data.

 

I think what you meant to say earlier is that his explosion numbers don't compare favorably to most NFL receivers.

 

His 3-cone, 40, and bench, however do.

 

Calling him an extremely poor athlete was an inaccurate characterization; saying he's less explosive is, IMO, more realistic.

[CommonCents]

57 minutes ago, horned dogs said:

Hot takes abound on this thread today:

 

So far I've been told.....

 

Calvin Ridley is old and un-athletic

Josh Allen=Ryan Leaf

Josh Rosen is a social justice type

Lamar Jackson has trouble understanding plays

Kelvin Benjamin is not good at football

 

And Commensense can't even answer why Vander Esch was only a one year starter, but still a first round beast

 

Well that was fun....

 

 

You couldn't even ask the question right and it's pretty apparent why it took Vander Esch time to get to where he is now. In his high school they played 8 on 8 football, most players played both ways. Not exactly grounds for fine tuning an NFL prospect.

 

He walked on to Boise St. He was redshirted his Freshman year fresh out of his 8 on 8 matchups. His sophomore year he was limited to six games due to injuries. Declared his Junior year, easily a top 40 guy. Rumors before the combine had him as a fit at 14 or 19. It will be interesting to see where he lands.

 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

21 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

You couldn't even ask the question right and it's pretty apparent why it took Vander Esch time to get to where he is now. In his high school they played 8 on 8 football, most players played both ways. Not exactly grounds for fine tuning an NFL prospect.

 

He walked on to Boise St. He was redshirted his Freshman year fresh out of his 8 on 8 matchups. His sophomore year he was limited to six games due to injuries. Declared his Junior year, easily a top 40 guy. Rumors before the combine had him as a fit at 14 or 19. It will be interesting to see where he lands.

 

 

Oh so the fact he is only a one year starter and not senior confused you. You could have handled a simple question much better junior. So it took him 3 years to overcome 8-8 football...got it. Let's agree to not quote each other anymore because I now know what you are about.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, horned dogs said:

Oh so the fact he is only a one year starter and not senior confused you. You could have handled a simple question much better junior. So it took him 3 years to overcome 8-8 football...got it. Let's agree to not quote each other anymore because I now know what you are about.

Don't call someone out multiple times when you can't take a minute of your own time to do a little research. 

 

Try again red shirt, hurt, played. That's year 1, 2 and 3. I won't quote you anymore as long as you don't call out others. Good luck champ.

 

 

[Sig1Hunter]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

Lamar Jackson.

Not with your pole,  and Boyst pushing. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

Don't call someone out multiple times when you can't take a minute of your own time to do a little research. 

 

Try again red shirt, hurt, played. That's year 1, 2 and 3. I won't quote you anymore as long as you don't call out others. Good luck champ.

 

 

If you think being asked a simple question is being called out you are exactly who I think you are. Stay away far away.

[buffaloboyinATL]

4 hours ago, billspro said:

 

Why would you not want Calvin Ridley?

I don't want Ridley either, primarily because there are other WR's that can be had in the second round that I believe will be better pro's.  Not that he is a bad player, just not value where he will go.  Chark is one of the ones that comes to mind, but there are others.

[jrober38]

Josh Allen

[Cripple Creek]

3 hours ago, yungmack said:

If he's your 10 foot pole pick, then you must be okay with Jackson, Allen, and the rest of the draftees. 

Don't want Jackson either but listed Darnold because he's projected higher.. Haven't seen enough of Allen to say one way or the other.  

2 hours ago, Commonsense said:

You're not looking for a conversation, you are foaming at the mouth and in love with a player you have probably only watched on highlights reels. Carry on. 

 

 

SOSDD

[frostbitmic]

Sam Darnold ... Turnover machine in high school, turnover machine in college, yeah he has a strong arm but he can't hold onto the ball.