Former NFL Lineman Jonathan Martin Seems Very Troubled - Has Been Taken into Custody

[Bill from NYC]

15 hours ago, GG said:

Is the NFL going to apologize to Richie?

Good question.

 

I don't remember so much about the case, but I do remember Incog saying something to the effect that he would actually protect Martin from other team's players who would screw around with him. Please don't hold me to an exact quote. The league came down VERY heavily upon RI, this in an industry where time to earn is severely limited.

 

I think that the NFL, with their billions upon billions of dollars, pays some of the brightest minds in the business world to craft it's public image. Incog made slurs about blacks and gays and they stepped on him like an ant. They also seem to care to an extent now about domestic violence. I applaud this because these things are wrong.

Still, I do wonder why it is ok for players to take a knee, even though SO many people are hurt and insulted by it. Why can players speak out about hating "cops?" Is hating all police officers really any less bigoted than speaking out against all gays? They had Beyonce dancing up a storm at a super bowl,  but she and her criminal husband bailed out the people who rioted in and destroyed the city of Baltimore.

 

Yeah, these PR guys must be brilliant but it isn't easy for me to follow their logic.

[sleeby]

Bill - BLM is not about hating all cops.  You do not seem to understand the issue - which somehow seems to be the normal even though BLM is so very simple.and well defined and communicated.  

 

Anyhow, the NFL is a business as you point out and its business fails quickly without black and brown skinned associates.  The last thing they need is a player strike.

 

The same players are forced to don pink for the politics of breast cancer lobbyist groups so then saying they cannot use the field for educating about discrimination is tone deaf; amd maybe legally risky.  I have wondered why always breast cancer.  Prostrat cancer could use some sunshine in its backyard too. Ha.

 

[Chimp]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

No need to judge anyone or pretend like you know the story cause you read about it on some "news" site.  If you are on meds you forfeit your guns.  Simple.  All rights have common sense limits. 

 

the reality is not all conservatives or liberals think the way the media makes you believe they think.  btw talking about letting kids get murdered is way off and disrespectful.  Hopefully you can learn to think independently and not let fox put words in your brain. 

I don't need fox to put words in my brain.  Explain to me right now, if you can, how I can be sure my children aren't killed in school Monday, if all semi automatic rifles sales are banned today.  How does that stop a shooter tomorrow.  We need to make sure crazies don't get guns, but we need to have some form of security today to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Chimp

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, sleeby said:

He's not a danger to anyone save himself.  If he was both willing and able to shoot others he would not have put up that advert about it.

 

Where do you get that notion? 

Apparently the Florida school shooter posted on a Youtube video about how he was going to become "a professional school shooter" and other maniacs have had pre-event indicators.

 

Not all, but that doesn't mean you don't need to take it seriously.

Just now, Chimp said:

I don't need fox to put words in my brain.  Explain to me right now, if you can, how I can be sure my children aren't killed in school Monday, if all semi automatic rifles sales are banned today.

 

You can't.  But how can you be sure your children aren't killed in school Monday, if semi automatic rifle sales aren't banned today?  I don't see your point.

 

I do see this thread being moved to PPP though

[Chimp]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where do you get that notion? 

Apparently the Florida school shooter posted on a Youtube video about how he was going to become "a professional school shooter" and other maniacs have had pre-event indicators.

 

Not all, but that doesn't mean you don't need to take it seriously.

 

You can't.  But how can you be sure your children aren't killed in school Monday, if semi automatic rifle sales aren't banned today?  I don't see your point.

 

I do see this thread being moved to PPP though

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.  Let's not take any action to solve anything.  We'll just continue with the status quo and add another law for murderers to break.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Chimp

[sleeby]

You do have a point there hapless.  Either way, it certainly needs to be taken seriously.  

 

I see an opportunity for Richie to step up here.  Reach out to this guy and privately apologize and make amends - regardless of guilt.  The perceived antagonists could likely help the guy better than anyone. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by sleeby

[nedboy7]

9 minutes ago, Chimp said:

I don't need fox to put words in my brain.  Explain to me right now, if you can, how I can be sure my children aren't killed in school Monday, if all semi automatic rifles sales are banned today.  How does that stop a shooter tomorrow.  We need to make sure crazies don't get guns, but we need to have some form of security today to make sure this doesn't happen again.

 

I agree with you.  It's a multi dimensional issue.  Every single shooter is on meds.  Mentally ill people dont need guns.  Schools need to be safer in how they organize.  Actually everyone is right.  I am not sure how you keep your kids safe.  There are over 5 million kids under the age of 12 that are on meds in this country.  This country is run by pharmaceutical companies.  You see this being discussed on either side?  Sure the nra claims its a mental health issue.  Its a mental medication issue.  On the other hand why do you need an automatic weapon to protect yourself.  You in guerilla warfare? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, sleeby said:

I see an opportunity for Richie to step up here.  Reach out to this guy and privately apologize and make amends - regardless of guilt.  The perceived antagonists could likely help the guy better than anyone. 

 

I think that ship sailed some years back.

Just now, nedboy7 said:

 Every single shooter is on meds. 

 

This is just incorrect

[nedboy7]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that ship sailed some years back.

 

This is just incorrect

 

It is very close to the truth.  Research it.  I am not trying to just generalize to prove a point. 

 

http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/another-mass-shooting-potentially-linked-to-psychiatric-drugs-1002085657

Edited February 24, 2018 by nedboy7

[Repulsif]

21 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

shotgun formation ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Chimp said:

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.  Let's not take any action to solve anything.  We'll just continue with the status quo and add another law for murderers to break.

 

How do you get from this to that?  You asked how you can be sure your kids are safe in school if sales of semi-auto rifles are banned.

I asked how you can be sure your kids are safe in school if they aren't (since right now, they aren't, yet it seems safety can not be assured)

 

How do you get from that to "let's not take any action to solve anything, we'll just continue with the status quo and add another law"? 

The universe of actions is not limited to 2.  Neither did I suggest adding another law - I asked how not adding another law helps.  Not the same thing.

 

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

It is very close to the truth.  Research it.  I am not trying to just generalize to prove a point.

 

I have, and you are mistaken.

[nedboy7]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How do you get from this to that?  You asked how you can be sure your kids are safe in school if sales of semi-auto rifles are banned.

I asked how you can be sure your kids are safe in school if they aren't (since right now, they aren't, yet it seems safety can not be assured)

 

How do you get from that to "let's not take any action to solve anything, we'll just continue with the status quo and add another law"? 

The universe of actions is not limited to 2.  Neither did I suggest adding another law - I asked how not adding another law helps.  Not the same thing.

 

 

I have, and you are mistaken.

 

http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/another-mass-shooting-potentially-linked-to-psychiatric-drugs-1002085657

 

Ok its not 100%.  It would be foolish to not see the connection here though.  I am not saying this is the solution.  I am point to the fact that this is a part of it just like the other talking points.  There is no single argument. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by nedboy7

[IDBillzFan]

42 minutes ago, Repulsif said:

 

shotgun formation ?

 

Finally someone makes a good joke. I swear some people look for any opportunity to promote their own, silly way of thinking.

 

Frankly, all I keep thinking is how cool it would have been if Martin added the hashtags #diedrichiedie and #laces out, and instead of writing something obscure about bullying and revenge, he would just write "Richie Incognito should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell! Would you like a cookie, son?"

 

This is how you do it, Martin!

 

 

[DC Tom]

17 hours ago, Doc said:

 

What he wrote was inappropriate.  But his former Dolphins teammates obviously saw it and still supported him and not Martin. 

 

 

That likely was what he was going for, but he shouldn't have included the picture of the gun, much less put the names of the HS and Dolphins on it. 

 

It's obviously what he was going for.  He's clearly referring to shooters, not victims.

 

But he certainly didn't do it well.

[C.Biscuit97]

Love the revisionist history.  RI was kicked out of multiple college and NFL teams because he was a POS long before he met Martin.  

 

Martin has a cushy upbringing and didn't have to deal with an RI. Maybe he had mental health issues.

 

Either way, it was bad mix between those two. It appears RI finally grew up and JM is struggling.  It's sad that some of you seem to be rooting against JM.  Rather that actually do it, he basically put out a cry for help.  Hopefully, he gets it because he is wasting his life.

 

and are there bigger losers than everyone who has to make everything into a stupid liberal/ conservative thing?  

Edited February 24, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[DC Tom]

17 hours ago, Dopey said:

When everyone else here read it one way and you another, it makes everyone else obtuse?!

OK!?

All hail to dc tom! u iz sowe smartur then uss. 

 

Yes, it does.  Don't give me that "but there's consensus" bull ****.  "When you're bullied and a coward" is pretty goddamned clear....but how can we read when there's a picture of a gun!

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, sleeby said:

You do have a point there hapless.  Either way, it certainly needs to be taken seriously.  

 

I see an opportunity for Richie to step up here.  Reach out to this guy and privately apologize and make amends - regardless of guilt.  The perceived antagonists could likely help the guy better than anyone. 

This is a quality post that will get lost.  RI has even made comments that he needed to grow up.  Obviously, JM was more sensitive than most players.  RI reaching out would show what kind of man he's become.

[boyst]

21 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, regardless of his intent, the fact that its so unclear is almost even more troubling. If you can't make a clear statement on something like this, there is a big problem in cognitive ability.

You have a very good point, and I can see your way. But he said there's only two ways out. Which means you either go use the gun to stop being a victim or you kill yourself to stop being a victim

21 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Read the whole sentence, not just the last part. The qualifiers are important. "When you are a bully victim AND A COWARD, your options are suicide or revenge".

 

That's a hard AND statement. If he just said "When you are a bully victim, your options are suicide or revenge" that would be different.

 

But who knows. I'm just trying to figure out this puzzle.

The whole part where he says and a coward I think is referencing that he felt like a coward for not confronting it at the time. I really hope this guy can get help

20 hours ago, LA Grant said:

 

The bullying was addressed. The players were separated. Richie was punished by the NFL and Martin got a fresh start. 

 

Incognito is a scumbag for many reasons, but even with his bullying of Martin, he has nothing to do with Martin's actions here. He did not make Martin buy a shotgun or post that image with those words. 

God, you sound like a total pansy

[ndirish1978]

 

18 hours ago, DC Tom said:

It's pretty clear from the phrasing Martin wasn't making a statement on bullying, he was making a statement on COWARDICE...that the coward's way out of bullying is to shoot up a school.  He wasn't issuing a threat, he was calling the shooters cowards.

 

Has everyone really become this obtuse.

 

You're an idiot

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

 

You're an idiot

 

Okay, so everyone has become this obtuse.  Good to know.

[T-Bomb]

Some ppl are such precious snow flakes they can't handle being picked on, so their only option is to want to kill other human beings...

 

Nice

Edited February 24, 2018 by T-Bomb

[ndirish1978]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

Okay, so everyone has become this obtuse.  Good to know.

 

You have to have some serious role-colored glasses on in order to interpret the situation the way you chose to. If you read the summary of the words and a description of the image sure, that's a possible interpretation. But you have several things working against you here:

1. He identified people by name in an image threatening violence
2. He identified locations by name in an image threatening violence
3. The most important fact working against your interpretation - He didn't come out and say "hey guys this is what I meant."  Instead, he has checked himself into a mental health facility.

[DC Tom]

4 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

You have to have some serious role-colored glasses on in order to interpret the situation the way you chose to. If you read the summary of the words and a description of the image sure, that's a possible interpretation. But you have several things working against you here:

1. He identified people by name in an image threatening violence
2. He identified locations by name in an image threatening violence
3. The most important fact working against your interpretation - He didn't come out and say "hey guys this is what I meant."  Instead, he has checked himself into a mental health facility.

 

And yet, he wasn't charged, he's not in police custody, the police determined there was no threat (they have explicitly said "There was no threat.")  He was, however, placed on a 72-hour psych hold.  He did not check himself in.  

 

And there's the little thing that you're arguing that he was calling himself a coward.  Which makes absolutely no !@#$ing sense whatsoever.

[#34fan]

 

15 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

And yet, he wasn't charged, he's not in police custody, the police determined there was no threat (they have explicitly said "There was no threat.")  He was, however, placed on a 72-hour psych hold.  He did not check himself in.  

 

And there's the little thing that you're arguing that he was calling himself a coward.  Which makes absolutely no !@#$ing sense whatsoever.

 

Ugh! Tom, please restrict your shmuckery, and troll, j_rk-off, takes to PPP, and off the wall!

 

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

And yet, he wasn't charged, he's not in police custody, the police determined there was no threat (they have explicitly said "There was no threat.")  He was, however, placed on a 72-hour psych hold.  He did not check himself in.  

 

And there's the little thing that you're arguing that he was calling himself a coward.  Which makes absolutely no !@#$ing sense whatsoever.

I'm confused as to who committed him. If the police believed that he is "a danger to himself or others" then he would be taken into custody and sent to a pysch facility to be examined. The hold is usually for 72 hours where the psych people can make a determination to release him or further examine him. In order to hold him beyond the limit there has to be another hearing before a judge. 

 

I don't have all the details but it sounds to me that the police went to where he was and interviewed him. After talking to him it appears that they determined that he should be committed in order to be examined by psych professionals.  The paper work is relatively short and simple. It is basically reduced to the issue of the person being a danger to oneself and others. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by JohnC

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Boyst62 said:

If I'm incognito i stay 10000 miles from this kitty candy ass.  The first time didn't result so well and incognito got screwed.  I ain't apologizing to kitten Martin for anything

 

Apologize to martin?  Jesus. Martin needs to learn he is a grown man. Pussification of America causes people to be offended and make for weak ass apologies

Martin seems to have issues that have little to do with Incognito and the Miami incident. It goes way beyond that incident. This is a situation where Incognito should wish him well and stay out of it. Martin needs professional help and his erratic behavior makes that very clear. This isn't a street issue and adapting to the tough world. This is an issue  dealing with a troubled person with mental health issues. . 

Edited February 24, 2018 by JohnC

[sleeby]

39 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

It'd show he is a fool. Men move on from bad situations. Beaches crawl back for amends.

 

You sound like a real man!  Thanks for the poser testosterone shower though.  

 

43 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I'm incognito i stay 10000 miles from this kitty candy ass.  The first time didn't result so well and incognito got screwed.  I ain't apologizing to kitten Martin for anything

 

Apologize to martin?  Jesus. Martin needs to learn he is a grown man. Pussification of America causes people to be offended and make for weak ass apologies

 

[Green Lightning]

JM is clearly cracker-dogs and RI would do well to stay as far away as possible. If he keeps behaving in such an erratic manner, he should be in professional care. Bullying inside this guy's never been right.

[Victory Formation]

Sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail. Has anybody here never been the butt of jokes? I have. But I've also viciously teased people in the past (all of which I apologized profusely for later in life). It's just the way it goes, euphoria doesn't last forever, neither does depression.

Edited February 24, 2018 by NewDayBills

[boyst]

4 hours ago, sleeby said:

 

You sound like a real man!  Thanks for the poser testosterone shower though.  

 

 

Don't worry, I am all man...

[Murdox]

22 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

His plan was not to get killed. This couldn't be more obvious based on his actions and his plan.

 

We can agree to disagree.  My opinion is when you go to shoot up a school in at least the back of your mind you know you will be caught or kill yourself.  Or you are simply crazy.  Whatever the scenario, I don't think in this case the fear of armed gunman at the campus would have changed his mindset, given how troubled he was and given how he was fantasizing about getting into shootouts with folks. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Murdox

[Victory Formation]

On 2/23/2018 at 3:33 PM, Leonhart2017 said:

The good news here is no one was physically harmed and he can now hopefully get some help.

We'll see if it helps. Sounds like he is psychotic, bipolar maybe? Only so much they can do. Going to be a lifelong battle I'm afraid.

[Albwan]

On 2/23/2018 at 2:37 PM, PolishDave said:

 

He was seen pantsless on the 400 toking it up with Cyrus Kouandjo on some kind of synthetic ganja.   

 

Dareus flew by them in some kind of convertible Ferrari whipping the finger yelling "Yo my ...........!"

lol?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

Martin seems to have issues that have little to do with Incognito and the Miami incident. It goes way beyond that incident. This is a situation where Incognito should wish him well and stay out of it.

 

Exactly.  The first time Incognito tried to befriend Martin (however misguided in the details), it did not end well for him.    He has nothing to gain and everything to lose.  Stay away.

[vincec]

On 2/23/2018 at 8:10 PM, Rob's House said:

I feel vindicated when these J-Mart stories come out. I was one of the first to call bull **** on the bully story and took God knows how much flack for it. People were super pissed off declaring Incognito the scum of the earth and holding Martin up as both a victim and courageous survivor. Turns out they were all full of ****.

 

The moral of the story is that knee-jerk, easily outraged manginas who see the world comprised of victims and victimizers are almost always wrong.

Maybe you should refamiliarize yourself with the case.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/2/14/5411608/worst-of-the-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-report-miami-dolphins

 

[Chimp]

20 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

On the other hand why do you need an automatic weapon to protect yourself.  You in guerilla warfare? 

I was with you to this point.  You can't buy an automatic weapon without a class 3 permit.  These aren't happening with automatic weapons.  Besides, automatic weapons are only first shot accurate.  Guerilla warfare...maybe.  when each side immediately demonizes the other without listening, how far off is a war?  Civil wars start between people, not governments man.  At the rate we are going I can see my kids fighting in a civil war.

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

Maybe you should refamiliarize yourself with the case.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/2/14/5411608/worst-of-the-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-report-miami-dolphins

 

My advice is to learn from this and move on with your life. Ted Wells and the NFL told you what your inner bullied child wanted to hear and you bought it. Now you're still living in denial about being duped. That's not healthy.

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly.  The first time Incognito tried to befriend Martin (however misguided in the details), it did not end well for him.    He has nothing to gain and everything to lose.  Stay away.

If I may let me turn this issue around to Incognito. His behavior in Miami and toward Martin was way out of line. It's debatable whether his severe punishment was warranted or not. But his involuntary time out of football was the best thing that happened to him. Incognito's life was careening out of control. His life was turbulent and on the verge of blowing up. It got to the dangerous point that he exploded and in a rage beat up a luxury car. I have heard Incognito talk about how he with much resistance finally faced up to his own demons. He sought counseling and stuck with it. He not only has turned his career around but also his life. 

 

I have seen some video of Incognito off the field.  His conduct was raunchy and obnoxious. You don't have to be a professional in the mental health business to recognize that he was like a powder keg ready to explode. A while back I saw an interview with Incognito in which he revealed a very personable and engaging side. He was very bright, articulate and self-reflective. The point I'm making here is that with the right help people can turn things around and live a happy and meaningful life. I hope that Martin who now seems so lost can find the right path to health and happiness. 

[nedboy7]

13 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Don't worry, I am all man...

 

Weird you would have to prove your manliness ha?  Especially on here.  

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If I may let me turn this issue around to Incognito. His behavior in Miami and toward Martin was way out of line. It's debatable whether his severe punishment was warranted or not. But his involuntary time out of football was the best thing that happened to him. Incognito's life was careening out of control. His life was turbulent and on the verge of blowing up. It got to the dangerous point that he exploded and in a rage beat up a luxury car. I have heard Incognito talk about how he with much resistance finally faced up to his own demons. He sought counseling and stuck with it. He not only has turned his career around but also his life. 

 

I have seen some video of Incognito off the field.  His conduct was raunchy and obnoxious. You don't have to be a professional in the mental health business to recognize that he was like a powder keg ready to explode. A while back I saw an interview with Incognito in which he revealed a very personable and engaging side. He was very bright, articulate and self-reflective. The point I'm making here is that with the right help people can turn things around and live a happy and meaningful life. I hope that Martin who now seems so lost can find the right path to health and happiness. 

 

Well said.  Both guys had +/- still have their issues, but RI seems to have worked through his while I think that JM couldn't and still can't face the fact that he wasn't cut-out for the NFL, so he blamed/blames it on RI.  I agree that what RI did was out of line and unsavory but I don't think it caused JM to flame-out.  After all, there was a reason the Miami coach(es) told RI to toughen JM up.  And given the support RI's Miami teammates gave him and not one gave it to JM, I suspect they felt that what he did was okay because Martin didn't belong there.