John from Riverside Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: ooooh color me intrigued. do tell me WHY it goes a little further than that with me John. Can't wait. I think your setting up your ax to grind for next season.....you do not appear to be content unless you are doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, John from Hemet said: I think your setting up your ax to grind for next season.....you do not appear to be content unless you are doing that I'm one of the bigger McBeane backers on this board, so not sure where you're getting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Green Lightning said: Adjusted completion rate. Really? That's for losers. His completion rate is for multiple years. How far back are you going to go with an adjusted completion rate? Do or don't do, there is no try. Adjusted completion percentage has its issues but it’s certainly better to attempt to adjust for drops and throwaways than to pretend a perfect pass that’s dropped is worse than a bad pass that’s caught. Neither one necessarily measures how good a player’s ball placement is but people smarter than you or I have tracked that as well and determined that Lamar’s ball placement is roughly average compared to the rest of the class, which in combination with his running ability should make him a very promising prospect IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: I'm one of the bigger McBeane backers on this board, so not sure where you're getting that. If I am wrong on this I apologize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, John from Hemet said: If I am wrong on this I apologize i would definitely have beef, however, if TT is the starter opening day. That would just be bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: Adjusted completion percentage has its issues but it’s certainly better to attempt to adjust for drops and throwaways than to pretend a perfect pass that’s dropped is worse than a bad pass that’s caught. Neither one necessarily measures how good a player’s ball placement is but people smarter than you or I have tracked that as well and determined that Lamar’s ball placement is roughly average compared to the rest of the class, which in combination with his running ability should make him a very promising prospect IMO. Maybe, but not in the first round. I tend to believe you are what your record says you are. Not a bunch of looking back in the rearview mirror and making adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: Maybe, but not in the first round. I tend to believe you are what your record says you are. Not a bunch of looking back in the rearview mirror and making adjustments. You would not have liked John Elway then. “His” record was under .500 his senior season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBillsBacker Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think what we saw of Josh Allen in the senior bowl is more of who he is than what went on at Wyoming. This kid has legit talent and out of the top 6 QB’s, he’s the one I’m least concerned about. Rosen is still my top QB talent wise, but his question marks outweigh the inaccuracy questions surrounding Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) The scout talks about "knowing what they're doing" when talking about Allen's sh*t completion percentage, but then knocks Jackson for his? A bit contra-dick-tory you might say. He says Mayfield is not athletic? He seems quite elusive on the field at times and takes off running when needed having enough speed to outrun LB's on occassion. Just because he got caught by the police on that one bounce doesn't mean he's like Tom Brady back there. The comparisons seem decent on a serious note though, but I am also on the Mayfield bandwagon so I disagree there. Jackson and Griffin though? No way. Jackson is way more electric as a runner than Griffin ever hoped to be. Griffin may have been the better passer though. Edited February 23, 2018 by H2o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said: You would not have liked John Elway then. “His” record was under .500 his senior season. What was his completion percentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 24 minutes ago, H2o said: The scout talks about "knowing what they're doing" when talking about Allen's sh*t completion percentage, but then knocks Jackson for his? A bit contra-dick-tory you might say. He says Mayfield is not athletic? He seems quite elusive on the field at times and takes off running when needed having enough speed to outrun LB's on occassion. Just because he got caught by the police on that one bounce doesn't mean he's like Tom Brady back there. The comparisons seem decent on a serious note though, but I am also on the Mayfield bandwagon so I disagree there. Jackson and Griffin though? No way. Jackson is way more electric as a runner than Griffin ever hoped to be. Griffin may have been the better passer though. Obviously by every standard Baker is a very athletic kid. He is a Division 1 QB and a small one at that, he is obviously very athletically gifted but for NFL standards he isn't that great of an athlete. Probably in the bottom 10-12 athletically wise if you were to rank him out of 32 starting QBs. But i don't think that's an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 On 2/23/2018 at 7:11 PM, Buffalo716 said: Obviously by every standard Baker is a very athletic kid. He is a Division 1 QB and a small one at that, he is obviously very athletically gifted but for NFL standards he isn't that great of an athlete. Probably in the bottom 10-12 athletically wise if you were to rank him out of 32 starting QBs. But i don't think that's an issue He can play from the pocket and make progressions. As long as he can pick up the nfl game speed and find his throwing lanes hell be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) How can you pass up this with your high first round pick?LOL Yes it takes ALOT of imagination. Mountain West Player Passing Statistic PASSING YARDS LEADERS - ALL PLAYERS RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT 1 Nick Stevens, QB CSU 284 459 61.9 3799 8.3 76 29 10 13 147.9 2 Brett Rypien, QB BSU 218 348 62.6 2877 8.3 87 16 6 20 143.8 3 Dru Brown, QB HAW 254 412 61.7 2785 6.8 85 18 8 30 129.0 4 Ty Gangi, QB NEV 228 374 61.0 2746 7.3 82 25 11 7 138.8 5 Marcus McMaryion, QB FRES 218 351 62.1 2726 7.8 81 14 5 8 137.7 6 Christian Chapman, QB SDSU 146 243 60.1 1873 7.7 89 13 4 29 139.2 7 Josh Allen, QB WYO 152 270 56.3 1812 6.7 47 16 6 22 127.8 8 Jordan Love, QB USU 129 235 54.9 1631 6.9 77 8 6 7 119.3 9 Montel Aaron, QB SJSU 126 225 56.0 1531 6.8 59 8 10 22 116.0 10 Armani Rogers, QB UNLV 99 189 52.4 1471 7.8 94 6 5 22 122.9 RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT Edited February 25, 2018 by horned dogs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Josh Allen = Philip Rivers?! Damn, now I want him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 These scouts sound like any one of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I really don't care who the Bills draft at QB. I have to assume they'll get the right guy. That said I've seen the "running" QB, and how difficult it has been to try to make him stay in the pocket when things get dicy. So of all the top prospects I fear Jackson the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, horned dogs said: How can you pass up this with your high first round pick?LOL Yes it takes ALOT of imagination. Mountain West Player Passing Statistic PASSING YARDS LEADERS - ALL PLAYERS RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT 1 Nick Stevens, QB CSU 284 459 61.9 3799 8.3 76 29 10 13 147.9 2 Brett Rypien, QB BSU 218 348 62.6 2877 8.3 87 16 6 20 143.8 3 Dru Brown, QB HAW 254 412 61.7 2785 6.8 85 18 8 30 129.0 4 Ty Gangi, QB NEV 228 374 61.0 2746 7.3 82 25 11 7 138.8 5 Marcus McMaryion, QB FRES 218 351 62.1 2726 7.8 81 14 5 8 137.7 6 Christian Chapman, QB SDSU 146 243 60.1 1873 7.7 89 13 4 29 139.2 7 Josh Allen, QB WYO 152 270 56.3 1812 6.7 47 16 6 22 127.8 8 Jordan Love, QB USU 129 235 54.9 1631 6.9 77 8 6 7 119.3 9 Montel Aaron, QB SJSU 126 225 56.0 1531 6.8 59 8 10 22 116.0 10 Armani Rogers, QB UNLV 99 189 52.4 1471 7.8 94 6 5 22 122.9 RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT Can we draft "Armani Rogers" ?? Pleeeeeease!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 48 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Can we draft "Armani Rogers" ?? Pleeeeeease!? Not Nick Stevens? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Not Nick Stevens? name is too generic. Armani Rogers? that's a superstar name. Ty Gangi is pretty legit of a name too. Brett Rypien is also Mark Rypien's nephew, so maybe we should go with him instead, you know, because the bloodline and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Can't teach attitude and can't teach accuracy. I don't have the details like some of you guys got but I think spending a lot of capital on a QB who can't complete 60%+ in college or who have reputations for being "brats" isnt ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Because NFL scouts have such a great track record when it comes to evaluating QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said: name is too generic. Armani Rogers? that's a superstar name. Ty Gangi is pretty legit of a name too. Brett Rypien is also Mark Rypien's nephew, so maybe we should go with him instead, you know, because the bloodline and all. Armani Rogers is only a freshman so keep an eye on this dude, could be the next Josh Allen! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, horned dogs said: Armani Rogers is only a freshman so keep an eye on this dude, could be the next Josh Allen! Should make an entire roster of great names. ARMANI Rogers LeCharles BENTLEY CADILLAC Williams LINCOLN Kennedy TAIWAN Jones JAZZ Peavy PAC-MAN Jones HA-HA Clinton Dix MONTGOMERY VANGORDER SPEEDY Morris I just want a roster full of guys like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 On 2018-02-23 at 9:53 AM, Canadian Bills Fan said: I saw "Bleacher Report" in the link so I didn't even need to click on it Would have been accurate in 2011. BR is a good site now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Listen to what anonymous scout said to Dan Patrick about QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Here are some additional takes on Lamar Jackson from scouts: Albert Breer writes… “The evaluators I’ve spoken with have questions about his instincts and anticipation in the passing game, and his ability to process within the context of a pro offense, and still believe he’s more thrower than passer… He was seen as raw as a quarterback going into 2016, and the feeling on that remains the same.” In a piece penned by Sports Illustrated's Pete Thamel, the anonymous ACC coach declared that Clemson Tigers signal-caller Deshaun Watson is a superior prospect to Jackson—whom he believes does not have a future playing on Sundays. "Watson has a chance to be at least as good as [Jameis] Winston," he said. "We played he and Lamar Jackson, and Jackson has no shot at playing quarterback in the NFL. None. He can’t make the throws and can’t read coverages. He’s not going to have a chance. Watson stands tall in the pocket and whips the ball around like Ben Roethlisberger." Matt Miller Scouting notes in December 2017: "I don't know for sure where he'll play in our league, but he's f-ing exciting. I could also see someone breaking him in half the first time he's hit." —AFC defensive coordinator "With as much natural talent he has, there's developmental potential. The key will be how well his offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach can create a scheme for him—like Kyle Shanahan with RGIII—so he can have success early. Then you have to build on that success so defenses don't catch up to him." —NFC player personnel director "Well, I think the first question is what is he? I don't think he's a great passer despite good arm strength. I don't think he's a powerful enough runner to have success on the ground. So he'll have to learn to be a better thrower and stop relying on his legs. And if that doesn't work, move him to receiver." —former NFL general manager NFL.Com Bucky Brooks Nov. 2017. When I've discussed Jackson with scouting colleagues, I've heard him described as a "wow" athlete with intriguing talent. An AFC scout told me that he is a "create-a-player" playmaker with a set of skills that are typically associated with five-star players in video games. On the other hand, I've had plenty of scouts tell me that Jackson is more of a thrower than a passer and his sub-60 percent completion rate (59.8 percent this season) reflects his struggles with accuracy and ball placement. Bucky Brooks Analysis: In a league where passers are coveted at a premium, it's hard to sell an athletic quarterback with a run-first game to scouts and coaches looking for a polished pocket passer. That's why I wanted to check back in with Jackson to see if he has made enough progress as a passer to warrant consideration as a potential franchise quarterback at the next level. After studying the All-22 coaches' footage, I believe Jackson is an exceptional athlete with a combination of speed, explosiveness and burst that is hard to find in a quarterback. The 6-foot-3, 211-pound junior is a dynamic runner with a slippery running style that makes him nearly impossible to corral in the pocket. He excels on designed runs (QB draws, sweeps and zone-read plays) and is a defensive coordinator's nightmare as an improvisational playmaker. Jackson's average of 6.8 yards per carry this season is nearly a yard better than his average from his Heisman campaign. He has posted back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons as a runner while scoring 28 rushing touchdowns. Skeptics worry about his frame, but he is noticeably bigger and thicker than a season ago. That's helped him become a more physical and effective runner on the perimeter. As a passer, Jackson displays outstanding arm strength and range. He can push the ball down the field as an effective vertical passer on post and go routes. Although he struggles a bit with his ball placement and accuracy on home-run balls due to his shoddy footwork and fundamentals, Jackson has the capacity to strike up the band as a long-ball tosser. On short and intermediate throws, his struggles with inconsistency are also due to his unpolished mechanics. Jackson misses the mark on outside throws, particularly comebacks and deep outs beyond 12-15 yards. He frequently misses high and wide on those throws, which is largely due to his failure to properly step into his passes. Jackson is at his best when throwing isolation routes (seams and skinny posts) or simple reads (slants-flats; stick-go and curl-flat). Offensive coordinators will feature those concepts prominently in spread offenses, but NFL coordinators typically opt for full-field reads or pure progression concepts that require the quarterback to tie his eyes to his feet in the pocket. Thus, Jackson still has a ways to go as a passer before convincing traditional play callers that he can fill the role as a high-end QB1. That doesn't mean that Jackson shouldn't be considered a top prospect at his position. We've seen more NFL teams implement spread systems with simplistic reads if the quarterback flashes exceptional playmaking ability as a dual-threat (see Deshaun Watson, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson). With that in mind, it wouldn't surprise me to see a team place a solid grade on Jackson that reflects his potential to be a franchise QB. -- Bucky Brooks Edited February 26, 2018 by racketmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 21 hours ago, dpberr said: Can't teach attitude and can't teach accuracy. I don't have the details like some of you guys got but I think spending a lot of capital on a QB who can't complete 60%+ in college or who have reputations for being "brats" isnt ideal. In the case of <60% completions, it's worth asking "why?" If it's because the receivers have one of the highest drop % among QB prospects, maybe you take a closer look for yourself. If they didn't (Allen), you look at what happened when he had time to throw. If it's because the ball and WR weren't in the same zip code, Pass. I have no interest in judging anyone on their "media reputation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 A related article (great read) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917607/article/questions-to-ask-2018-drafts-top-qb-prospects-at-nfl-combine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: A related article (great read) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917607/article/questions-to-ask-2018-drafts-top-qb-prospects-at-nfl-combine God damn you - I thought I beat you to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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