Hits and Misses: How Successful Was GM Russ Brandon In The Draft?...REVISED

[BillsVet]

We haven't had a Brandon thread in a long time. And thank goodness because there was a time it seemed like one started every day.

 

That said, he had no business being a NFL GM and I remember reading that other team execs at the 2008 Combine were snickering at his presence there.

 

I can at least say that Buffalo finally has a GM who is suited and not wed to protecting his job or trying to obtain another promotion at OBD.  I have supreme confidence that the current leadership is suited to the modern game and won't be making picks to largely sell tickets. 

[SoTier]

50 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I have a gut feeling that jauron was picking the draft in those days. I mean, would any gm pick Aaron Maybin in the first round? I feel like the entire bills front office in those days had absolutely no idea what it was doing 

 

I think Jauron had significant input into whom the Bills drafted because most of the players drafted during his tenure tended to fit the mold that Jauron liked best: fast, smaller players or "lunchpail" players.  During this period (2006-2009), the only "star" or "difference maker" that the Bills drafted was Marshawn.

 

26 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

We haven't had a Brandon thread in a long time. And thank goodness because there was a time it seemed like one started every day.

 

That said, he had no business being a NFL GM and I remember reading that other team execs at the 2008 Combine were snickering at his presence there.

 

I can at least say that Buffalo finally has a GM who is suited and not wed to protecting his job or trying to obtain another promotion at OBD.  I have supreme confidence that the current leadership is suited to the modern game and won't be making picks to largely sell tickets. 

 

Brandon came to the Bills from MLB where his claim to fame was that he successfully deconstructed the Florida Marlins, ruthlessly selling off the team's personnel assets and plunging the Marlins from first to worst in a single season.   Since he became Wilson's surrogate with the Bills, he was undoubtedly good at seeing that the Bills improved their bottom line no matter how poorly organized/run the Bills were as a football team, and that's what counted with Wilson.

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

 

Yea I agree 100%.  Plus the counter view is all based on speculation.  

 

People say say how bad Marv and Russ were as GM but then say “well they didn’t actually make the draft picks.”  I guess that doesnt make them so bad then?????  

 

All speculation though.  You have zero proof

 

there’s been people in this very thread that do know factually that you’ve written off. 

 

Do you expect a bills issued formal press release? 

[Fadingpain]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

Brandon has received a lot of unwarranted criticism. He was never a functioning GM, and didn't pretend to be. When Marv left he did his best to hold things together. Responsibilities that he wasn't equipped for were thrust upon by the owner. He was a good soldier and did the best that he could to keep the operation functioning. Russ Brandon is one of the better sports manager in the business. He expanded the Bills market and made it more viable. He understandably got skewered on the Toronto episode but from a business perspective it made a lot of sense. He was tapping into the Canadian market and increasing the regionalization of the franchise. 

 

There are some people who criticize Brandon for influencing the hiring of Rex. That is a fair criticism while most of the blame should go directly to the owners. The Pegulas have struggled with their products in the sports scene. But they are astute and forward thinking business people. They were smart enough to recognize Brandon's business and marketing acumen to put him in charge of the business side of their sports operation that includes the Bills and Sabres. 

 

 

Russ is that you?  Only a marketing wonk would identify a pro sports franchise as a "product."

 

By the way, I have seen little evidence to suggest the Pegulas are astute business people, at least in terms of their ownership of the Bills and Sabres.  Most of it has been a train wreck to date that transcends a simple lack of experience for a first time owner.  

 

25 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think Jauron had significant input into whom the Bills drafted because most of the players drafted during his tenure tended to fit the mold that Jauron liked best: fast, smaller players or "lunchpail" players.  During this period (2006-2009), the only "star" or "difference maker" that the Bills drafted was Marshawn.

 

 

Brandon came to the Bills from MLB where his claim to fame was that he successfully deconstructed the Florida Marlins, ruthlessly selling off the team's personnel assets and plunging the Marlins from first to worst in a single season.   Since he became Wilson's surrogate with the Bills, he was undoubtedly good at seeing that the Bills improved their bottom line no matter how poorly organized/run the Bills were as a football team, and that's what counted with Wilson.

It's straight up weird how many Bills fans don't understand that Ralph Wilson was a horrible owner and by far the biggest cause of decades of failure.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Fadingpain

[Freddie's Dead]

LEODIS, MY MAN!!!!   GONNA BEAT THAT ASS!!!!

[Paulus]

I don't think Reggie Corner was that much of a miss, if any. Even then, I can agree with the above synopsis.

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Paulus said:

I don't think Reggie Corner was that much of a miss, if any. Even then, I can agree with the above synopsis.

I thought so too, but Reggie only played 4 years with the Bills, then blew out his knee with the Jags.  He was a serviceable corner before that, so a borderline miss, I guess.

[Paulus]

4 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I thought so too, but Reggie only played 4 years with the Bills, then blew out his knee with the Jags.  He was a serviceable corner before that, so a borderline miss, I guess.

Honestly, the more I think about it the more OP is wrong.

 

Ask yourself this: "Would you pick a player in the 4th round that you knew would give your team the same production Corner gave the Bills or an unknown fourth rounder(someone the scouts pick, unknown NFL quality)?"

 

I think I'd pick Corner more often than I'd take a scout pick/unknown NFL quality. At least 4 of every 5 times I picked in the fourth. 

 

Booo!!! Change yo Corner hate, OP!!!

[Nihilarian]

11 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

Right I don’t disagree.  But the record shows that technically it was Russ Brandon who served as GM.  As Russ would say frequently say “I own it.”

Show me a link to this horse hockey as this couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Russ Brandon never publicly owned up to anything, ever! He was a master of unaccountability otherwise known as the king of the eels, slippery and elusive.

 

As a matter of fact, every time someone would post in this forum and blame the guy for even the slightest thing one of his shills would jump to his defense and state he never was involved in the football side of operations. Which of course, was a lie! 

 

I firmly believe Kirby when he states that Brandon never made any of the drafts picks himself. From what I understand usually it was a consensus with both the HC and chief scout (Tom Modrak) involved in the final choice. After Modrak was fired it was either Nix or Whaley and the HC. Still, Brandon had great influence over the football side of operations and with Rex Ryan, as HC it was let known that Brandon was in the Bills cut room meeting and on the phone to players.

 

The simple fact is that although Brandon didn't make the final call on who to sign as a free agent or who to draft. His presence in his position kept the team from hiring an actual NFL GM who could attempt to right this ship in turbulent seas. 

 

Time to stop living in the past with a thoroughly dysfunctional mess that was the old Buffalo Bills pre 2017. Think of it, the 2014 Buffalo Bills field one of the very best defenses in their history (#4 ranked) with Jim Schwartz as DC and what do they do? Let Schwartz leave and hire a head coach that hadn't had a winning season for five years. That same Jim Schwartz was the DC for the 2017 super bowl champs defense (#4 ranked). 

 

Who hired Rex Ryan you ask? Why the Pegula's of course! Let's also not forget that Russ Brandon told the first time NFL owners "that they would know who to hire" after the interview process. Brandon also told the Pegula's to "not let Ryan leave the building".

 

Be grateful that these new owners hired a good head coach and give him absolute power over the football side. That new HC hired a GM to help him. When the team fired Whaley they also fired all the scouts and hired new scouts. This NFL franchise should now be run like a real NFL franchise for the first time in over a decade and no longer a dysfunctional mess. We can't go back in time to change anything so let this stuff go and look to the future.  

[May Day 10]

13 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

Again  that’s speculation.  That’s all rumor and innuendo.  Find me documentation that shows Marv and Russ did not make draft picks.  Then we’ll talk.  All that has been published is rumor and innuendo...no facts

all a byproduct of the bills' shell game of accountibility that alliwed them to maintain the status quo for so many years.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Show me a link to this horse hockey as this couldn't be further from the truth.

 

 

He said it in the famous 1 Jan 2013 presser.  I can't find the exact transcript, looks like the Bills have removed it from the website but from memory it was something like "I own it, we all do." 

 

It was words not actions.  

[Nihilarian]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He said it in the famous 1 Jan 2013 presser.  I can't find the exact transcript, looks like the Bills have removed it from the website but from memory it was something like "I own it, we all do." 

 

It was words not actions.  

What I was referring to was Brandon owning up to anything that happened on the football operations side of things.

 

In 2013 Brandon did take full control of the football operations and stated that Buddy Nix will still be in charge of the draft and football operations. However, Brandon stated he will have final say on decisions. It's that final say that we fans will never know about! 

 

He also stated, "This brand has been tarnished and it's unacceptable," Brandon said of a team that has had one winning season since its last playoff appearance in 1999 and went 16-32 under Gailey.

"I will leave no stone unturned in taking this organization to a world-class level."

 

Now, that never happened! 

 

Don't get me wrong here as I never wanted Brandon fired. I just wanted him to have no part in the football operations. He is a master at filling the stadium seats and was instrumental in moving the training camp to St John Fisher. Plus, he did some other good things for the team. Being the Buffalo Bills GM wasn't one of them and him having complete autonomy over the football side wasn't either. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Nihilarian

[May Day 10]

13 hours ago, JohnC said:

Brandon has received a lot of unwarranted criticism. He was never a functioning GM, and didn't pretend to be. When Marv left he did his best to hold things together. Responsibilities that he wasn't equipped for were thrust upon by the owner. He was a good soldier and did the best that he could to keep the operation functioning. Russ Brandon is one of the better sports manager in the business. He expanded the Bills market and made it more viable. He understandably got skewered on the Toronto episode but from a business perspective it made a lot of sense. He was tapping into the Canadian market and increasing the regionalization of the franchise. 

 

There are some people who criticize Brandon for influencing the hiring of Rex. That is a fair criticism while most of the blame should go directly to the owners. The Pegulas have struggled with their products in the sports scene. But they are astute and forward thinking business people. They were smart enough to recognize Brandon's business and marketing acumen to put him in charge of the business side of their sports operation that includes the Bills and Sabres. 

 

 

 

russ brandon got imto the sports field to be a gm.  that was his dream.  he came onto the bills scene and was a key figure for business backs the bills, and monetizing training camp into an event at his alma mater.  wilson took to him.  he was able to learn the ropes a but under john butler and would study the cba.  donahoe wasnt a fan of his and there was a bit of division.  one of levy's main objectives was to get brandon up to speed.  brandon began getting involved and learning much deeper into player evaluations and x's and o's.  ralph and russ wanted him to get a shot to make a name for himself before mr wilson wad no longer the owner (and the team likely to move) and he was given the gm title.  he wasnt ready, but that was his shot.   

 

fans were ready to revolt, so they installed nix as a front man to appease the masses, brandon was still very intimately involved, and that continued through whaley.  i honestly think he is walled off now as guys like beane, mcdermott (and marrone) dont want to stake their careers and reputation) in the hands of bad devision makers.

 

i find the idea that russ brandon was thrust into the gm role kicking and screaming to be funny.

 

if modrak was "really the gm" all those years, they would just name him gm

Edited February 22, 2018 by May Day 10

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, May Day 10 said:

if modrak was "really the gm" all those years, they would just name him gm

 

They needed a front man because Modrak came to the facility about three times per year.  It was totally and utterly dysfunctional. The original idea, I think, behind Levy was that he was a sound football man who would be able to advice from Modrak and Guy and be the trigger man.  Brandon was supposed to run the rest of the organisation as Director of "non football operations." It was doomed to failure from day 1.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

There is a lot to this time period between Donahoe & Nix. At this point Ralph Wilson was pretty much out of the picture. Jeff Littman was basically functioning as the owner. He ultimately (on Ralph’s behalf) made the final call on things. At the same time there was a bit of a power struggle between Brandon and Littman as Brandon wanted to the final say to come from the ground at OBD instead of Grosse Pointe. Ultimately that happened at some point (6 or 7 years after this time). That’s the whole “I have final say” comments. He no longer had to get approval from Littman and Company. It wasn’t a power struggle to make football decisions; it was a power struggle to make ownership decisions. 

 

Simultaneously, Ralph get burned by Donahoe. That is when he named himself president (despite being 90ish and never around). He hired Marv as sort of a caretaker, someone to watch the football department like Brandon was the business side. He wanted people that he could trust and that was the majority of the group. John Guy was running the pro side and Modrak the college side. They really had no one to answer to, complete autonomy to do things both good and bad because there was no final voice. 

 

This evolved in Brandon as the GM after Marv. He was not there to make football decisions either but to try to oversee the operation. He empowered the same people to do their jobs. He, like Marv, wasn’t really qualified to oversee the day-to-day of it. He was just a good executive that the owner trusted. Marv and Brandon were Littman (and Ralph’s eyes and ears). It would have been a simple fix if post Donahoe they would have just hired a football guy over Guy and Modrak (or promoted one) to be in charge of that department. At the time though Gross Pointe didn’t want to get burned again so they gave it to the people that he trusted.

 

Once decisions no longer had to go to Gross Pointe (when Russ had full autonomy) things sort of returned to a normal football operations department. That’s the Nix and Whaley era. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[2003Contenders]

Let's not forget that Russ also oversaw the 2009 draft as well, which gave us... A. Maybin ninth overall! 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Russ Brandon makes me sick every time I see a picture of him.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Russ Brandon makes me sick every time I see a picture of him.

If you don’t like Russ you would have hated Littman!! He did everything in his power to pinch pennies (especially late) because i think he knew that he was getting a portion of the sale. He was the hatchet man. 

[ALF]

9 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Russ Brandon makes me sick every time I see a picture of him.

 

He is only good at marketing , keep him far away from hiring , drafting or trades. I still think he had a say in hiring Rex over Whaley's choice.

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, Paulus said:

Honestly, the more I think about it the more OP is wrong.

 

Ask yourself this: "Would you pick a player in the 4th round that you knew would give your team the same production Corner gave the Bills or an unknown fourth rounder(someone the scouts pick, unknown NFL quality)?"

 

I think I'd pick Corner more often than I'd take a scout pick/unknown NFL quality. At least 4 of every 5 times I picked in the fourth. 

 

Booo!!! Change yo Corner hate, OP!!!

 

If a team gets a solid solid starter or a reliable sub or rotational player out of any guy drafted on Day 3 (Rounds 4-7) that's a bonus not "a miss" IMO.  It's virtually impossible for Day 3 guys to "bust" because the ceiling for Day 3 players is probably ST player.   Most Day 3 guys don't make it out of preseason unless they can play ST or win a slot on a practice squad.  Corner was a "hit".

 

 

 

[May Day 10]

I'm just glad that this conversation isn't relevant any more in the present time.... only to untangle what happened in the past.  What a miserable experience as a fan.

 

 

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

If a team gets a solid solid starter or a reliable sub or rotational player out of any guy drafted on Day 3 (Rounds 4-7) that's a bonus not "a miss" IMO.  It's virtually impossible for Day 3 guys to "bust" because the ceiling for Day 3 players is probably ST player.   Most Day 3 guys don't make it out of preseason unless they can play ST or win a slot on a practice squad.  Corner was a "hit".

 

 

 

[Watkins90]

He was only GM for one year?

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

It's straight up weird how many Bills fans don't understand that Ralph Wilson was a horrible owner and by far the biggest cause of decades of failure.

 

Ralph Wilson was a great owner in his own way. He loved the Buffalo fans and knew he had to keep ticket prices low so they could afford to go to NFL games in Buffalo.

 

Wilson was a very shrewd businessman who was also a very frugal and cantankerous owner who needed to keep the Buffalo Bills profitable in order to retain ownership. There were times over the course of the team's history where Wilson was almost forced to sell all or part of the team or move the team like Browns owner Art Modell was forced to do. His close friend Al Davis was forced to sell part of the Raiders as were other owners.

 

One of those times were in the late 70s in which the team couldn't have home preseason games because the team was so bad the fans wouldn't attend. 1976, (2-12).1977 (3-11) Bills fans wouldn't attend games and season ticket sales were at their lowest in the team's history.

The team hadn't beaten the Miami Dolphins the entire decade of the 1970s. The Love canal, jobs leaving Buffalo as the steel mills shut down. The air was bad due to the mills, the weather. Buffalo was a tough place to live as even the national media would make fun of the city.  Wilson was worried he would be forced to sell or move. 

 

In 1978, Wilson, a notoriously frugal owner went out and hired ex-Rams HC Chuck Knox and made him one of the highest paid coaches in the league. The team was in the playoffs within two seasons and the stands were filled again. After 1982 Wilson let Knox leave for Seattle where he soon took them to the playoffs. 

 

1984, 1985 saw the team back to back 2-14 seasons and fans in the stands with bags on their heads and again Wilson was facing a desperate situation. Luckily, the Bills GM suffered an unfortunate injury was replaced by Bill Polian who prompted Wilson to make Jim Kelly the highest paid QB in the NFL at that time. The pendulum swung the other way and the fans were back in the seats. 

 

Sadly, in his later years, it seemed like Wilson was content with a mediocre team as long as it kept making a profit. After all, he had other hobbies like collecting fine art, racing horses and tennis. It looked like as long as the team was profitable and fans were in the seats there was no real incentive to hire the best and brightest coaches or build another winning program. 

 

Be grateful the franchise now has some new owners that are billionaires who are more concerned with winning over profitability. 

 

 

[May Day 10]

16 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Ralph Wilson was a great owner in his own way. He loved the Buffalo fans and knew he had to keep ticket prices low so they could afford to go to NFL games in Buffalo.

 

Wilson was a very shrewd businessman who was also a very frugal and cantankerous owner who needed to keep the Buffalo Bills profitable in order to retain ownership. There were times over the course of the team's history where Wilson was almost forced to sell all or part of the team or move the team like Browns owner Art Modell was forced to do. His close friend Al Davis was forced to sell part of the Raiders as were other owners.

 

One of those times were in the late 70s in which the team couldn't have home preseason games because the team was so bad the fans wouldn't attend. 1976, (2-12).1977 (3-11) Bills fans wouldn't attend games and season ticket sales were at their lowest in the team's history.

The team hadn't beaten the Miami Dolphins the entire decade of the 1970s. The Love canal, jobs leaving Buffalo as the steel mills shut down. The air was bad due to the mills, the weather. Buffalo was a tough place to live as even the national media would make fun of the city.  Wilson was worried he would be forced to sell or move. 

 

In 1978, Wilson, a notoriously frugal owner went out and hired ex-Rams HC Chuck Knox and made him one of the highest paid coaches in the league. The team was in the playoffs within two seasons and the stands were filled again. After 1982 Wilson let Knox leave for Seattle where he soon took them to the playoffs. 

 

1984, 1985 saw the team back to back 2-14 seasons and fans in the stands with bags on their heads and again Wilson was facing a desperate situation. Luckily, the Bills GM suffered an unfortunate injury was replaced by Bill Polian who prompted Wilson to make Jim Kelly the highest paid QB in the NFL at that time. The pendulum swung the other way and the fans were back in the seats. 

 

Sadly, in his later years, it seemed like Wilson was content with a mediocre team as long as it kept making a profit. After all, he had other hobbies like collecting fine art, racing horses and tennis. It looked like as long as the team was profitable and fans were in the seats there was no real incentive to hire the best and brightest coaches or build another winning program. 

 

Be grateful the franchise now has some new owners that are billionaires who are more concerned with winning over profitability. 

 

 

 

 

On one hand, I'm grateful for Wilson and recognize him as being 'the father of the Bills'.  I am glad for Pegula and the team staying. 

 

However, the team went through about 57 years of terrible ownership with a couple perfect storm blips of success.  MAYBE Pegula finally got it right with McBeane... but we will see, a lot to do there (Im optimistic). 

 

Wilson never really seemed 'all in' on Buffalo and since I can remember (early mid 80s), there was always a shroud of a threat of relocation, and Wilson never put us at ease.  In fact, you can argue that with the original Rogers deal for Toronto games, the wheels were put into motion for a Rogers purchase/relocation (however he passed away and his family became dysfunctional and they spent a trillion dollars on NHL rights).  Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

To be honest, if we had a 50 year old Ralph Wilson as owner of the Bills, I would find another team or something else to do.

Edited February 22, 2018 by May Day 10

[John from Riverside]

You have to hit on your players you select in the 1st 3 rounds

 

it is great to find late round steals....but you biuld your team around your premium picks.

 

That is why Bean's 1st draft is a "In progress grade" if Zay Jones would have done well it would have been a slam dunk A

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, May Day 10 said:

Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

They might it is true.... but Wilson and Brandon put a number of things in place to make the Bills less attractive as a prospect to someone whose priority was move the team. 

 

Now had we not had buyers with local ties in the Pegulas that might not have been enough because a relocation buyer would have been able to drive the price down accordingly, but Wilson and Brandon did make it less attractive to relocation buyers and every little helps. 

[2003Contenders]

I am in no way defending Russ as it relates to football decisions he was a part of... However, guys in the know back then told me that even though he was the de facto GM in 2008/2009, Russ pretty much left all of the heavy lifting in the drafts to Tom Modrak.

 

Modrak did not especially like the limelight and preferred staying down in Florida, as opposed to Brandon who was a Buffalo guy through-and-through and loved getting all the attention he could get. I am told that Brandon's involvement in day-to-day operations, scouting, the draft, etc. has always been over-stated. While Russ was willing to serve as the face of the franchise back them he relied on Modrak to handle the scouting and run the War Room at draft time. In fact, the 2008 draft in particular was all Modrak (he LOVED Leodis).

 

Dick Jauron reportedly had a greater say in the 2009 draft, and it was Jauron who was allowed to overrule Modrak on that first round pick of Maybin (Jauron REALLY wanted an "edge rusher") over the guy that Modrak wanted (Brian Cushing) with the 11th overall pick (not the 9th as I misstated above).  Modrak was so incensed about this that he wasted little time leaking his preference for Cushing to the press the next day.

 

Still, Russ deserves the blame for allowing these things to happen under his watch. Also under his watch:

 

1. Low-balling and then trading Jason Peters

2. Signing Fitz to an inflated contract at a time when Fitz was on a hot streak -- and believing that Fitz was the "answer"

3. Extending Dick Jauron's contract

 

I am so glad that Russ has been relegated to doing what he does best: team marketing.

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

You have to hit on your players you select in the 1st 3 rounds

 

it is great to find late round steals....but you biuld your team around your premium picks.

 

That is why Bean's 1st draft is a "In progress grade" if Zay Jones would have done well it would have been a slam dunk A

 

It wasn’t beanes, and no one is consistently hitting 3 of 3. Otherwise, sure.

 

if you hit 3 of 3 a couple of times (especially with a qb) you immediately shoot to Super Bowl favorite 

[Rico]

4 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Russ Brandon makes me sick every time I see a picture of him.

His clown shot in the thread OP always makes me laugh and laugh and laugh. 

17 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

 

On one hand, I'm grateful for Wilson and recognize him as being 'the father of the Bills'.  I am glad for Pegula and the team staying. 

 

However, the team went through about 57 years of terrible ownership with a couple perfect storm blips of success.  MAYBE Pegula finally got it right with McBeane... but we will see, a lot to do there (Im optimistic). 

 

Wilson never really seemed 'all in' on Buffalo and since I can remember (early mid 80s), there was always a shroud of a threat of relocation, and Wilson never put us at ease.  In fact, you can argue that with the original Rogers deal for Toronto games, the wheels were put into motion for a Rogers purchase/relocation (however he passed away and his family became dysfunctional and they spent a trillion dollars on NHL rights).  Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

To be honest, if we had a 50 year old Ralph Wilson as owner of the Bills, I would find another team or something else to do.

Don’t forget when he talked about moving the Bills to Seattle.

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1971/01/13/archives/bills-exploring-move-to-seattle-owner-wants-new-stadium-to-keep.html

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

20 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

Again  that’s speculation.  That’s all rumor and innuendo.  Find me documentation that shows Marv and Russ did not make draft picks.  Then we’ll talk.  All that has been published is rumor and innuendo...no facts

 

 

Well can just as easily say, show me the proof that Russ and Marv made the picks?

[Nihilarian]

21 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

 

On one hand, I'm grateful for Wilson and recognize him as being 'the father of the Bills'.  I am glad for Pegula and the team staying. 

 

However, the team went through about 57 years of terrible ownership with a couple perfect storm blips of success.  MAYBE Pegula finally got it right with McBeane... but we will see, a lot to do there (Im optimistic). 

 

Wilson never really seemed 'all in' on Buffalo and since I can remember (early mid 80s), there was always a shroud of a threat of relocation, and Wilson never put us at ease.  In fact, you can argue that with the original Rogers deal for Toronto games, the wheels were put into motion for a Rogers purchase/relocation (however he passed away and his family became dysfunctional and they spent a trillion dollars on NHL rights).  Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

To be honest, if we had a 50 year old Ralph Wilson as owner of the Bills, I would find another team or something else to do.

The thing is Ralph Wilson had a choice to have his team in Miami or Buffalo and he chose us. He also had many offers to sell the team and move to different cities especially in difficult times and he said no! 

 

Jon Bon Jovi had heard RW wasn't that well in 2013 and wanted to buy the club then. RW said NO!. I'm not 100% sure but I think he left an edict with Brandon that after he passed away to not sell the team to anyone who had intentions of moving the team. The man had his faults but he also had great virtue and that was loyalty to Buffalo and the fans here. 

 

When the Buffalo Bills went to a super bowl the very frugal owner paid for every Buffalo Bills employee to attend...loyalty.

 

The Buffalo Bills did win two AFL Championships before the merger and it could be the reason he didn't push harder to win a super bowl. 

[John from Riverside]

37 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

It wasn’t beanes, and no one is consistently hitting 3 of 3. Otherwise, sure.

 

if you hit 3 of 3 a couple of times (especially with a qb) you immediately shoot to Super Bowl favorite 

I should clarify my word consistently.....by that I dont mean every year.....but more years then you miss.

 

To me a major problem is 1st round picks busting.....that really hurts both financially, committment to the player wise, and the whole "what if" thing had you selected another player.

[May Day 10]

27 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The thing is Ralph Wilson had a choice to have his team in Miami or Buffalo and he chose us. He also had many offers to sell the team and move to different cities especially in difficult times and he said no! 

 

Jon Bon Jovi had heard RW wasn't that well in 2013 and wanted to buy the club then. RW said NO!. I'm not 100% sure but I think he left an edict with Brandon that after he passed away to not sell the team to anyone who had intentions of moving the team. The man had his faults but he also had great virtue and that was loyalty to Buffalo and the fans here. 

 

When the Buffalo Bills went to a super bowl the very frugal owner paid for every Buffalo Bills employee to attend...loyalty.

 

The Buffalo Bills did win two AFL Championships before the merger and it could be the reason he didn't push harder to win a super bowl. 

 

Legally, the trust were to sell the Bills to the highest bidder.  What Wilson "told" Russ Brandon had nothing to do with it, and Russ Brandon was virtually powerless in the process to select a preferred buyer

 

Ralph Wilson didnt sell the team in his later years because he and his heirs would be double-taxed, costing hundreds of Millions of dollars.  

 

Wilson also intended on Miami, but hit some roadblocks and then (with the urging of a local guy, forget his name) went with Buffalo.  He didnt choose Buffalo over Miami, necessarily.

 

He did have a charm with him and treated his full time employees well.  I agree there.  Chocolate footballs, Christmas bonuses, good benefits and all.

 

58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They might it is true.... but Wilson and Brandon put a number of things in place to make the Bills less attractive as a prospect to someone whose priority was move the team. 

 

Now had we not had buyers with local ties in the Pegulas that might not have been enough because a relocation buyer would have been able to drive the price down accordingly, but Wilson and Brandon did make it less attractive to relocation buyers and every little helps. 

 

That side of negotiations was on the county.  Ultimately, Wilson signed off on it, but it is on the County and State push for stronger Non Relocation terms.  If the team wanted to be secure here, the County and State would have been pleased to make it much stronger and longer in length.

 

Also, if the timing didnt go down the way it did, it could have been a different story.  Mr Wilson passed away before the paint was dry on the renovations...  If Wilson passed before the agreement was signed, or if he held on 2-4 more years, it would be a different story, especially without Pegula or his interest. 

 

 

I'm cornered into pooping on Ralph Wilson, and I really don't want to do that because I have no ill will at this point and appreciate the Bills as his "creation".  The reality/result is they have been here for 58 years and are staying.  I now try to avoid going this deep into this stuff as it is no longer relevant.

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by May Day 10

[Steve O]

19 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

I feel like Hardy was the consensus #2 pick around here.  Just looked back at that whole draft, what a clunker.

Was hoping to take him in the first but was psyched when McKelvin fell to us (most mocks had him going 5-10) and then got Hardy in the second. If memory serves no WR's went in the first...didn't check draft history to confirm though.

 

Ok, just checked. No WR's in the first but 10 went in the second. But yea what a bad draft.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Steve O

[Jay_Fixit]

5 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Russ Brandon makes me sick every time I see a picture of him.

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[teef]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

since you live in idaho, i bet you still have a tube tv.

[NoSaint]

48 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I should clarify my word consistently.....by that I dont mean every year.....but more years then you miss.

 

To me a major problem is 1st round picks busting.....that really hurts both financially, committment to the player wise, and the whole "what if" thing had you selected another player.

 

It really isn’t that big of a financial hit. We are talking a range of 2-6m per year and a 4 year deal. 

 

In a projected 178m cap.... thats not substantial. The opportunity cost sucks. 

 

And no one is hitting their top three picks more often than not. Hitting all three is a banner year not the expectation

[John from Riverside]

36 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

"well give you half that"

 

"ok buffalos out"

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

Thanks, that looked like a crappy movie, I’m really glad now that I never watched it.