Starr Almighty Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2018/02/bills_hire_another_alabama_sta.html The Bills have hired Crimson Tide analyst Shea Tierney as an offensive assistant, AL.com has learned. Tierney had worked for the Crimson Tide since 2016. He previously worked for the Philadelphia Eagles. I'm not sure if all these Bama hires will workout. But at least the front office views the offensive side of the ball as an issue. In years past they would of stood pat. Edited February 10, 2018 by Starr Almighty 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2018/02/bills_hire_another_alabama_sta.html The Bills have hired Crimson Tide analyst Shea Tierney as an offensive assistant, AL.com has learned. Tierney had worked for the Crimson Tide since 2016. He previously worked for the Philadelphia Eagles. I'm not sure if all these Bama hires will workout. But at least the front office views the offensive side of the ball as an issue. In years past they would of stood pat. What's your evidence? We are constantly changing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Can't say I really know who he is. Couldn't find a whole lot on him. This is all I got so far - https://tdalabamamag.com/2017/07/09/analysts-saban-hiring-really-coaches-waiting/ Quote Shea Tierney on the other hand, brings knowledge and experience to the staff. Starting his second year in this role with the Tide, Tierney has had jobs with the the NFL’s Philadelphia Eagles as a front office person, intern coach and coach. He’s picked up a lot in that time and as an offensive analyst. Prior to his four years with the Eagles, there’s little to learned about him and his past exploits aren’t easy to find. It’s hard to think of him as someone who could step in and be a coach here, but he could land elsewhere. He interacted with both Lane Kiffin and Steve Sarkisian and used his time to pick up much from them. This is a guy that may not be ready for an Alabama job, but he is a tempting target for someone else and has proven to be very good in giving advice and doing good film analysis. https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/report-buffalo-bills-hire-another-alabama-staff-analyst-shea-tierney Quote "Tierney had worked for the Crimson Tide since 2016 when he was hired as an offensive analyst. Tierney was previously a member of the Philadelphia Eagles coaching staff, where he worked for four years....." During his time at Alabama, Tierney worked closely with newly-named offensive coordinator Mike Locksley on the offensive side of the ball under both Daboll and the since-departed Lane Kiffin. Like many analysts on Nick Saban’s staff, Tierney is seen as a potential future head coach. Like Locksley and others, he was probably overqualified for his role as an offensive analyst, but the opportunity to work for Saban and get a job at Alabama on one’s resume can make a huge difference for coaches looking to move up the ladder. " That part about being very good at giving (offensive) advise and at film analysis sounds intriguing... Saban obviously thought enough of him to give him a job, and he's work with some interesting offensive minded coaches (I believe 1 year with Andy Reid in Philly, Chip Kelly, Steve Sarkisian, Lane Kiffin, edit - and Pat Shurmer). Maybe he will bring some fresh ideas to the offense? Edited February 11, 2018 by BillsFan4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, White Linen said: What's your evidence? We are constantly changing. We changed the last two guys before that we didn't change no matter how bad it was. Remember Hackett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) no doubt they're working on the offensive staff. now just get your QB and a few more positions (WR, RB, OL) filled, contenders! Edited February 10, 2018 by DaBillsFanSince1973 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: no doubt they're working on the offensive staff. now just get your QB and a few more positions (wr,rb,ol) filled, contenders! Right. If this regime is gonna draft a 1st round QB, its gonna be this year. They stock piled a few picks and brought in a new OC is the perfect time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Can't say I really know who he is. Couldn't find a whole lot on him. This is all I got so far - https://tdalabamamag.com/2017/07/09/analysts-saban-hiring-really-coaches-waiting/ https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/report-buffalo-bills-hire-another-alabama-staff-analyst-shea-tierney That part about being very good at giving (offensive) advise and at film analysis sounds intriguing... Saban obviously thought enough of him to give him a job, and he's work with some interesting offensive minded coaches (I believe 1 year with Andy Reid in Philly, Chip Kelly, Steve Sarkisian, Lane Kiffin). Maybe he will bring some fresh ideas to the offense? That last paragraph says all that I need to see. If he was good enough to work for those guys I’m comfortable with him here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 People look way too hard at minor coaches, outside of the overall philosophy that's dictated by the head coach or at worst the coordinator, as long as the rest are onboard and are good motivators/teachers that's all you need. 90% of performance is based on talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Just now, Woodman19 said: People look way too hard at minor coaches, outside of the overall philosophy that's dictated by the head coach or at worst the coordinator, as long as the rest are onboard and are good motivators/teachers that's all you need. 90% of performance is based on talent. I agree that it is mostly talent based but the position coaches are extremely important. They own the day-to-day of the group. It’s actually the other way around. The HC is the CEO. It is his vision and motivation that is set but the position coaches are the one’s in the weeds. They are the one’s teaching and working on technique and player development. The coordinators are the one’s calling the plays. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Any chance McDermott is an Auburn fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) There are two non-roster aspects where I have felt that the Bills have not been competitive with the rest of the league: 1) use of analytics in-game - what playcall for a given game situation, down and distance gives them the best advantage? when to punt, when to go for it, what play to call when you go for it? Pederson and the Eagles excelled at this. Haley and the Steelers are good at when to go for it, but not what play to call. Bills neither. If these hires signal an investment in improvement here, it's all worth it 2) intelligence - I think it was Gruden who said, they would pretty well have the opponent's defensive signals down by halftime. Belichick excels at this, maybe a bit too well - you know, how teams move the ball on the Pats in the first half then get stifled in the 2nd? If I were playing him I would do my best to mix things up. Maybe give three signals and change which one is correct. Maybe have new signals for the second half. Whatever my players could handle. I hope we are working on this, also. Daboll if anyone ought to know what the Pats do and what changes the Bills have to make to step up. 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I agree that it is mostly talent based but the position coaches are extremely important. They own the day-to-day of the group. It’s actually the other way around. The HC is the CEO. It is his vision and motivation that is set but the position coaches are the one’s in the weeds. They are the one’s teaching and working on technique and player development. The coordinators are the one’s calling the plays. Add to this: it's the position coaches ability to teach and motivate that can make the difference between maximizing performance for talent vs underperforming, the difference between WR who run every route correctly and contend for every pass/inbound catch vs WR who are 70-80% and that's good enough. Edited February 10, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Winning program; at least he brings that to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I agree that it is mostly talent based but the position coaches are extremely important. They own the day-to-day of the group. It’s actually the other way around. The HC is the CEO. It is his vision and motivation that is set but the position coaches are the one’s in the weeds. They are the one’s teaching and working on technique and player development. The coordinators are the one’s calling the plays. Depends on the coach, but I agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I agree that it is mostly talent based but the position coaches are extremely important. They own the day-to-day of the group. It’s actually the other way around. The HC is the CEO. It is his vision and motivation that is set but the position coaches are the one’s in the weeds. They are the one’s teaching and working on technique and player development. The coordinators are the one’s calling the plays. 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: There are two non-roster aspects where I have felt that the Bills have not been competitive with the rest of the league: 1) use of analytics in-game - what playcall for a given game situation, down and distance gives them the best advantage? when to punt, when to go for it, what play to call when you go for it? Pederson and the Eagles excelled at this. Haley and the Steelers are good at when to go for it, but not what play to call. Bills neither. If these hires signal an investment in improvement here, it's all worth it 2) intelligence - I think it was Gruden who said, they would pretty well have the opponent's defensive signals down by halftime. Belichick excels at this, maybe a bit too well - you know, how teams move the ball on the Pats in the first half then get stifled in the 2nd? If I were playing him I would do my best to mix things up. Maybe give three signals and change which one is correct. Maybe have new signals for the second half. Whatever my players could handle. I hope we are working on this, also. Daboll if anyone ought to know what the Pats do and what changes the Bills have to make to step up. Add to this: it's the position coaches ability to teach and motivate that can make the difference between maximizing performance for talent vs underperforming, the difference between WR who run every route correctly and contend for every pass/inbound catch vs WR who are 70-80% and that's good enough. two excellent posts and spot on. alabama/saban were known for 2nd half adjustments and successful I may add. experience passed on to the players can bring nothing but good, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Looks to me like the Bills are building an analytic type department. I wonder if we will see some of these hires for the defensive side of ball. Any third party can give a team stats, but you need people with real football backgrounds to interpret that data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: Looks to me like the Bills are building an analytic type department. I wonder if we will see some of these hires for the defensive side of ball. Any third party can give a team stats, but you need people with real football backgrounds to interpret that data. I don’t think that you do. The best analytics guy that I was ever around couldn’t have played badminton in high school. He was brilliant and is killing it right now in the NFL. It is about understanding how to develop the data and uncover trends. Ie “When we run left on 1st down out of the shotgun we average 5 YPC. When we do it from under center it is 2.3 YPC.” That is kind of a stupid example and a way oversimplified one but you get the point. The best people are the ones that can drill down the deepest while still having a large enough sample size for the data to be relevant. Those are math guys from my experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t think that you do. The best analytics guy that I was ever around couldn’t have played badminton in high school. He was brilliant and is killing it right now in the NFL. It is about understanding how to develop the data and uncover trends. Ie “When we run left on 1st down out of the shotgun we average 5 YPC. When we do it from under center it is 2.3 YPC.” That is kind of a stupid example and a way oversimplified one but you get the point. The best people are the ones that can drill down the deepest while still having a large enough sample size for the data to be relevant. Those are math guys from my experience. Like I said, that can be done by a 3rd party. There was a guy on wgr who works for the company the Eagles use. The problem is that there is so much data and the coaches don't have time to organize it and figure out how to use if effectively. That is where these guys come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t think that you do. The best analytics guy that I was ever around couldn’t have played badminton in high school. He was brilliant and is killing it right now in the NFL. It is about understanding how to develop the data and uncover trends. Ie “When we run left on 1st down out of the shotgun we average 5 YPC. When we do it from under center it is 2.3 YPC.” That is kind of a stupid example and a way oversimplified one but you get the point. The best people are the ones that can drill down the deepest while still having a large enough sample size for the data to be relevant. Those are math guys from my experience. I fully agree. It’s the same with physiologists for most countries national teams. Take a guy who has intimate knowledge of stats/the human body and have them apply it to football/Olympic sport. Things are actually much harder, and less benifical the other way around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: Like I said, that can be done by a 3rd party. There was a guy on wgr who works for the company the Eagles use. The problem is that there is so much data and the coaches don't have time to organize it and figure out how to use if effectively. That is where these guys come in. That is what an analytics department is. They drill down and hand you the data. The coaching staff needs to understand it to build their game plans. I will use a baseball example that is the simplest, “the pitcher that we face tomorrow has thrown 1st pitch fastballs 80% of the time.” You know that going in and adjust accordingly. The best mind in baseball is Theo Epstein. The best mind in basketball is Daryl Morey. Those guys weren’t athletes at all. They are number’s geniuses and icons at the Sloan Conference. Football is just late to the party (as usual). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: That is what an analytics department is. They drill down and hand you the data. The coaching staff needs to understand it to build their game plans. I will use a baseball example that is the simplest, “the pitcher that we face tomorrow has thrown 1st pitch fastballs 80% of the time.” You know that going in and adjust accordingly. The best mind in baseball is Theo Epstein. The best mind in basketball is Daryl Morey. Those guys weren’t athletes at all. They are number’s geniuses and icons at the Sloan Conference. Football is just late to the party (as usual). We don't have an analytic department right now. Hence what I said earlier. I'm not going to argue with you. I know exactly what analytics are and how they are used. You are talking like it is rocket science and you are the only one that knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Ittakestime said: We don't have an analytic department right now. Hence what I said earlier. I'm not going to argue with you. I know exactly what analytics are and how they are used. You are talking like it is rocket science and you are the only one that knows it. Not at all. The only point I am making is that it matters ZERO if the analytics people are football people or not. It matters that they are numbers people. A generation of nerds has grown up to want to be the next Daryl Morey. Those are the guys that you hire for the analytics department. You pull guys from MIT and Harvard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I like the continuity possibility from The two working together at Bama. As others have stated analytics is all about establishing patterns. Using the patterns to exploit tendencies by another coach. I think it would help if you have two guys who are looking for and speaking the same language. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: I like the continuity possibility from The two working together at Bama. As others have stated analytics is all about establishing patterns. Using the patterns to exploit tendencies by another coach. I think it would help if you have two guys who are looking for and speaking the same language. Not Bad 75. likely is about mindset and similar vision. I do like this, in theory. Go Bills ! Is Castillo still on the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Any chance McDermott is an Auburn fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Not at all. The only point I am making is that it matters ZERO if the analytics people are football people or not. It matters that they are numbers people. A generation of nerds has grown up to want to be the next Daryl Morey. Those are the guys that you hire for the analytics department. You pull guys from MIT and Harvard. So spreadsheets win games ???? mind blown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Not at all. The only point I am making is that it matters ZERO if the analytics people are football people or not. It matters that they are numbers people. A generation of nerds has grown up to want to be the next Daryl Morey. Those are the guys that you hire for the analytics department. You pull guys from MIT and Harvard. I think there is a place for analytics in football - when combined with a good coach. The problem IMO is that there are too many variables to isolate to get a firm direction. This is why analytics combined with traditional should be a good marriage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: So spreadsheets win games ???? mind blown Not sure how you got that out of that post? Analytics departments are built with analysts. It works the same way in sports as it does at UPS. 12 minutes ago, Dalton said: I think there is a place for analytics in football - when combined with a good coach. The problem IMO is that there are too many variables to isolate to get a firm direction. This is why analytics combined with traditional should be a good marriage. 100% agree!! So many times people here (tbd) we want black or white, yes or no, either or. It isn’t like that at all. It is a collection of parts and collaboration. It’s shades of gray. Edited February 11, 2018 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Look, ALL I want from these Bama Staffers are two things: Da'Ron Payne, and Da'Shawn Hand... Da'Ron and Da'Shawn, people.... It's not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Not sure how you got that out of that post? Analytics departments are built with analysts. It works the same way in sports as it does at UPS. Just joking around. Edited February 11, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Just joking around. Never can tell with you Shady. You are always up to something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Never can tell with you Shady. You are always up to something It keeps things interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Not at all. The only point I am making is that it matters ZERO if the analytics people are football people or not. It matters that they are numbers people. A generation of nerds has grown up to want to be the next Daryl Morey. Those are the guys that you hire for the analytics department. You pull guys from MIT and Harvard. I think the issue here, and with most analytics, is that they mistakenly go out the window during the heat of a game. I don’t claim to know what’s going through the head of a HC/OC/DC during a game, but I don’t think they are pouring over numbers and scenarios in their heads when making the call. Analytics may be good for coming up with a game plan, but I’m not sure they are used over experience during a game, especially when the other team is making adjustments (which deteriorates a game plan). Maybe it’s best to have someone to remind the coaches on the sidelines? And, yes, they better be great with their numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Saint Doug said: I think the issue here, and with most analytics, is that they mistakenly go out the window during the heat of a game. I don’t claim to know what’s going through the head of a HC/OC/DC during a game, but I don’t think they are pouring over numbers and scenarios in their heads when making the call. Analytics may be good for coming up with a game plan, but I’m not sure they are used over experience during a game, especially when the other team is making adjustments (which deteriorates a game plan). Maybe it’s best to have someone to remind the coaches on the sidelines? And, yes, they better be great with their numbers. Not with the Eagles. It's an integral part of in-game decision making for Pederson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, Saint Doug said: I think the issue here, and with most analytics, is that they mistakenly go out the window during the heat of a game. I don’t claim to know what’s going through the head of a HC/OC/DC during a game, but I don’t think they are pouring over numbers and scenarios in their heads when making the call. Analytics may be good for coming up with a game plan, but I’m not sure they are used over experience during a game, especially when the other team is making adjustments (which deteriorates a game plan). Maybe it’s best to have someone to remind the coaches on the sidelines? And, yes, they better be great with their numbers. I think that’s fair. I don’t know if you are a Yankees fan or not but the best reports called Girardi “binder boy.” He had so much information to comb through as the bullets started to fly and he couldn’t get the decisions out fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Add to this: it's the position coaches ability to teach and motivate that can make the difference between maximizing performance for talent vs underperforming, the difference between WR who run every route correctly and contend for every pass/inbound catch vs WR who are 70-80% and that's good enough. Talking of WR coaching... how has our guy survived? I get that the talent he had to work with was not great but there were so many badly run routes and guys not hitting their spots. Before you even get to the year "his boy" Zay had. I honestly think he'd have been my first firing.... even before Juan Castillo. And I hate Juan Castillo. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 If the Bills don't win the SEC, I am SO done with this team. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Talking of WR coaching... how has our guy survived? I get that the talent he had to work with was not great but there were so many badly run routes and guys not hitting their spots. Before you even get to the year "his boy" Zay had. I honestly think he'd have been my first firing.... even before Juan Castillo. And I hate Juan Castillo. I am there also. Since changing OC, I would have liked to see WR and OL coach changes (at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Talking of WR coaching... how has our guy survived? I get that the talent he had to work with was not great but there were so many badly run routes and guys not hitting their spots. Before you even get to the year "his boy" Zay had. I honestly think he'd have been my first firing.... even before Juan Castillo. And I hate Juan Castillo. He clearly was a disaster. To take it a step further they have a quality WR coach on staff, coaching QBs. Slide Culley over to WR and get a QB coach. Let Castillo go and you are in business. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: They own the day-to-day of the group. It’s actually the other way around. The HC is the CEO. It is his vision and motivation that is set but the position coaches are the one’s in the weeds. They are the one’s teaching and working on technique and player development. The coordinators are the one’s calling the plays. Agreed. Teaching is a lost art.....the good coaches are still good teachers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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