Horowitz's DOJ IG Report

[Deranged Rhino]

 

We learned Tuesday morning, based on a Monday-night court filing by Mueller, that Rosenstein’s amplification of Mueller’s jurisdiction was set forth in a classified memorandum dated August 2, 2017. 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/04/russia-investigation-rod-rosenstein-memo-mueller-probe-limits/

 

*****************************************************************************

NO BIAS.

 

She does not understand... it's amazing to see her incompetence extend to even basic cognitive function. 

 

It was illegal for them all to be using private emails - yet they did it for years. Together. 

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Then change the mandate. I said a year ago this will start at A and end at Z because of the scope implied. If people don’t like that, they need to change it. Legally. 

 

I completely agree.  And I understand it's never going to happen, just like in Clinton's case.  

[K-9]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You're aware the memo is real though, right? That's not speculation, it's legit. Courts have been trying to compel Mueller to turn it over and he has so far refused. The memo is directly related to his scope and the start of the investigation. 

Until I see the memo,  I’ll stick to what I’ve seen. There may be legitimate reasons why he refuses to release it. From what I also see, there is a partisan faction in Congress that is fanning these flames. It will come out in the wash eventually, so I won’t listen to the rabble on the hill whose only motivation is to politicize events and defend the president. The law will reign supreme. It just takes a while at times. I can be patient.

 

l’ve purposely avoided the Mueller thread and for good reason. Until it’s proved that Rosenstein, Mueller, et al have broken any laws, hell until they are even charged with breaking the law, I won’t listen to partisans trying to make political hay with conjecture based on partly knowns and unknowns. 

 

I shall leave you to your devices. Great job in aggragating all the excerpts from the IG report today. Lots of good food for thought there. And much appreciated. 

[DC Tom]

7 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

You believe that the Clintons and President Obama, the DNC, and the heads of their subordinate agencies thought they were fighting a Nazi takeover of government which is why they rigged the Democratic primary against Bernie Sanders, and spied on the campaign of Jeb Bush?

 

The DNC and Clintons, not so much - they only care about their own power, not others.  But the civil service people, like Page and Strozk and Comey?  

 

Some of it was ex post facto rationalization - "If Hillary's not elected, we risk a Nazi takeover."  But I work with these people.  I've heard them talk about stopping the Nazis over the years.  

[B-Man]

9 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

?

Quote

Stephen Miller‏Verified account @redsteeze 10m10 minutes ago

When you'll be remembered for blowing easiest election in US History to Donald Trump but get cheered for dropping sick burns on Twitter

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, K-9 said:

...

 

All good. I just wanted to clarify I wasn't speaking hypothetically or speculatively. That memo is at the root of a lot of unanswered questions, and by the DOJ and Mueller's own court filings, it supersedes the scope of the letter. That's all. 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

OK. Fair enough.

 

Still, though. If I try and slip a cop who pulls me over a 20 to get out of a ticket, what would the response be?

 

That you are one cheap SOB and he's going to see if your taillights are out too just for insulting him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

That you are one cheap SOB and he's going to see if your taillights are out too just for insulting him.

 

Maybe so, but the principle is IMO the same. Paying a government agent to provide a service they shouldn’t.

[Deranged Rhino]

Grassley on the warpath...

**************

Another text not released, but expunged until today: 

 

Why would they be "lucky"? Because none of this would have been investigated and dragged into the light and both wouldn't be staring down lengthy prison sentences? 

 

NO BIAS.

[snafu]

30 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Then change the mandate. I said a year ago this will start at A and end at Z because of the scope implied. If people don’t like that, they need to change it. Legally. 

 

It is going from A to Z because this is an odd investigation. They're investigating Trump to get to an incident, not investigating an incident and following it to a person. When does an investigation like that end?

 

When Mueller was set off to do his thing, I hoped that Rosenstein would have put a time limit and a reporting obligation on Mueller (forcing Mueller to prove that he needs more time).   The fact that Rosenstein didn't impose such a restriction is an obvious mistake.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by snafu

[/dev/null]

8 hours ago, Tiberius said:

No, Comey hurt Clinton and our nation badly. The Russians wanted Trump and helped him, also. 

 

You have to be a Trump cultist to ignore the evidence. The intelligence community said Russia helped (You Trump cultists just yell conspiracy) and the polls clearly show Clinton lost support after Comey's BS announcement. No amount of evidence will get you to believe that, I understand, but its still the truth. The FBI was also investigating Trump, but since it was against DOJ policy to announce that, they didn't. They followed policy for Trump. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

This is sad because it would have been true if Hillary had been elected. I may still end up true, but I have a slim hope of not...

And it certainly calls into question all past testimony from this agent. I wonder how many people with convictions will be filing appeals after this mess shakes out?
 

 

[Koko78]

50 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Until I see the memo,  I’ll stick to what I’ve seen. There may be legitimate reasons why he refuses to release it. From what I also see, there is a partisan faction in Congress that is fanning these flames. It will come out in the wash eventually, so I won’t listen to the rabble on the hill whose only motivation is to politicize events and defend the president. The law will reign supreme. It just takes a while at times. I can be patient.

 

l’ve purposely avoided the Mueller thread and for good reason. Until it’s proved that Rosenstein, Mueller, et al have broken any laws, hell until they are even charged with breaking the law, I won’t listen to partisans trying to make political hay with conjecture based on partly knowns and unknowns. 

 

 

So let me get this straight: You won't listen to anyone or anything you disagree with unless they prove your beliefs wrong... which they can't do because you won't listen to them?

[Golden Goat]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Then change the mandate. I said a year ago this will start at A and end at Z because of the scope implied. If people don’t like that, they need to change it. Legally. 

 

Kinda like illegal immigration, huh?

[Prickly Pete]

This response is what I have gotten from the sheep...

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doj-fbi-clinton-not-trump-inspector-general_us_5b044190e4b003dc7e46e1e7

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

This response is what I have gotten from the sheep...

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doj-fbi-clinton-not-trump-inspector-general_us_5b044190e4b003dc7e46e1e7

 

To call that half true would be misleading. To call it untrue completely would also be misleading. So...

 

Middling bullshite. That's HufPo's level.

*************

Words matter... And She's right: (click for full thread)

 

**********************

The last sentence here is very important: 

 

... Think Flynn's leak killers, Wolfe, and the 26 still open investigations. There's a lot more about leaks to come. A lot more.

[TakeYouToTasker]

15 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

To call that half true would be misleading. To call it untrue completely would also be misleading. So...

 

Middling bullshite. That's HufPo's level.

 

It's amazing how quickly the narrative has shifted from "Trump is a liar and a litteral Nazi!" to straight up pre-empitve damage control.  That's beyond even the skill of Hakeem Olajuwan.  That's an Obama level pivot.

[B-Man]

Kurt Schlichter‏Verified account @KurtSchlichter 49m49 minutes ago

You are a juror on a racial discrimination case.

 

Every time it made a choice, the defendant company chose against the plaintiff.

 

There are text messages from company senior leaders working with the plaintiff talking about how they hate black people.

 

Think there's no evidence?

[DC Tom]

22 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

**********************

The last sentence here is very important: 

 

... Think Flynn's leak killers, Wolfe, and the 26 still open investigations. There's a lot more about leaks to come. A lot more.

 

Easily a fireable offense.  Feds take that **** extremely seriously.

[Deranged Rhino]

There's a ton here... as evidence by the heft of the report... it's going to take some time to go through it all. But here's what jumped out on my first full read:

 

* This reads like three entirely separate reports: The Executive Summary and Conclusion sections have little relation to the body of the report itself. My gut is telling me that's because the Summary and Conclusion were mangled by RR and the DOJ during their pass on Horowitz's draft. 

 

* There's a lot more that's been redacted than might appear. Besides the two indexes, there's also weird formatting in some sections that looks as if whole sections were copied and pasted from other documents into this one, or things were removed. Could be just editing/uploading issues, could be a sign that there was more DOJ editing than they want it to appear. (Note: DOJ editing doesn't necessarily mean they're pulling a fast one, it could be moves to protect the integrity of ongoing investigations and grand juries)

 

* The body of the report covers a lot of stuff long known and covered by both sides of the media aisles (expected). But there are a lot of new bombshells in this report including the newly discovered text "No. No" text, evidence that Clinton's servers were penetrated by (not possibly penetrated by) foreign agents, evidence Obama and Comey both were using private emails to discuss government matters, confirmation of an ongoing (and damning) leak investigation, and abundant evidence of bias from leaders of the FBI and DOJ who were also in charge of Crossfire Hurricane.

 

... A lot of people on both sides are throwing up their arms - either in victory or disgust. I say, hold the line. There's a lot here, and even more that doesn't add up. More to say soon.   

 

[Azalin]

44 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

This response is what I have gotten from the sheep...

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doj-fbi-clinton-not-trump-inspector-general_us_5b044190e4b003dc7e46e1e7

 

Message to the sheep: Trump baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Azalin

[Golden Goat]

20 minutes ago, Azalin said:

Message to the sheep: Trump baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

 

"Well, I think that the dangerous, you know, edges here are that he is trying to undermine the media and trying to make up his own facts. And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsens, (Trump) could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think. And that, that is our job."

MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski, February 22, 2017

 

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Golden Goat

[Albwan]

 

 

[RaoulDuke79]

15 minutes ago, Golden Goat said:

 

"Well, I think that the dangerous, you know, edges here are that he is trying to undermine the media and trying to make up his own facts. And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsens, (Trump) could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think. And that, that is our job."

MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski, February 22, 2017

 

 

That whole statement is is a mess 6 ways to Sunday. I had to read it 4 or 5 times to find out what she was trying to say,  and it now that it makes sense, it's even worse.

Edited June 15, 2018 by RaoulDuke79

[Prickly Pete]

1 hour ago, Koko78 said:

 

So let me get this straight: You won't listen to anyone or anything you disagree with unless they prove your beliefs wrong... which they can't do because you won't listen to them?

 

This is what I run into every day from these people.

 

It's pointless to discuss anything with them.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Koko78 said:

 

So let me get this straight: You won't listen to anyone or anything you disagree with unless they prove your beliefs wrong... which they can't do because you won't listen to them?

Not at all. I was regularly participating in that thread and enjoying some of the viewpoints put forth, especially by DR. But that thread devolved into the usual partisan bickering with each side breathlessly pointing to every new article as “proof” of this or that when they aren’t proof of anything at this point and that’s just not important to me. I’m willing to listen to anyone about most anything, but until there is concrete evidence one way or the other, it’s just noise. It may be interesting noise and provide lots of grist for discussion, but I’m willing to wait until the investigation is over and the report is in. That’s when my beliefs will be changed one way or the other. This just isn’t something to get ahead of your skis on, especially in such a charged partisan environment. It’s cool that others can enjoy it though, don’t get me wrong. 

 

 

[Albwan]

2 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

 

This is what I run into every day from these people.

 

It's pointless to discuss anything with them.

    Yea man, don't waste your breath, their hatred of trump has trumped

any rational thought. They wish for the economy to crash, pray that

Nk doesn't denuclearize, side with  ms13 , all because for some 

weird reason they hate the elected POTUS, and the people who voted 

for him. So UN-AMERICAN to disrespect the office. They  should go to 

Canada, or all move to california and form their own cultist colony

of hate.

[K-9]

3 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Rod Rosenstein is up to his eyeballs in this.  And again, this was nothing more than a chartered fishing expedition purposed to bring down the sitting President. 

 

You cannot cling to "nation of laws" and defend the investigation.

All due respect, that is all supposition at this point. I’m struck by the contradiction between your respect for the rule of law and your willingness to accuse Rosenstein of breaking the law and pronouncing him guilty without due process.

Edited June 15, 2018 by K-9

[TakeYouToTasker]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not at all. I was regularly participating in that thread and enjoying some of the viewpoints put forth, especially by DR. But that thread devolved into the usual partisan bickering with each side breathlessly pointing to every new article as “proof” of this or that when they aren’t proof of anything at this point and that’s just not important to me. I’m willing to listen to anyone about most anything, but until there is concrete evidence one way or the other, it’s just noise. It may be interesting noise and provide lots of grist for discussion, but I’m willing to wait until the investigation is over and the report is in. That’s when my beliefs will be changed one way or the other. This just isn’t something to get ahead of your skis on, especially in such a charged partisan environment. It’s cool that others can enjoy it though, don’t get me wrong. 

 

 

 

I can appreciate this position.  I find it completely reasonable for someone not willing to, or who hasn't yet, Fung themselves into deep diving independent research in the topic.

 

On a personal level, I think this place benefits from your voice, however.

 

We need more introspective dissent down here.  More intelligent, respected, well thought out, introspective individuals who buck the regular trends.

 

There are important conversations that need to happen, and they shouldn't be one sided.

 

Please consider this.

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

All due respect, that is all supposition at this point. I’m struck by the contradiction between your respect for the rule of law and your willingness to accuse Rosenstein of breaking the law and pronouncing him guilty without due process.

 

You'll note that you're the first person to declare anyone guilty.  I've never used that phrasing.  My words are carefully chosen.

 

I don't know if Rosenstein is guilty of anything at all.  I know he's involved as a major player, and has a massive role to play.  I know where my educated suspicions lie, and I know the difference between justice and  the the proper application of the powers we afford the law, and the Mueller investigation.

 

I suspect you do as well.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

I can appreciate this position.  I find it completely reasonable for someone not willing to, or who hasn't yet, Fung themselves into deep diving independent research in the topic.

 

On a personal level, I think this place benefits from your voice, however.

 

We need more introspective dissent down here.  More intelligent, respected, well thought out, introspective individuals who buck the regular trends.

 

There are important conversations that need to happen, and they shouldn't be one sided.

 

Please consider this.

I appreciate the kind words and there are times l feel compelled to participate more often but that usually dissipates soon after the the usual devolution occurs and the insults ensue. There are other forums for me to share ideas that don’t resort to that level of discourse. So you will have to keep carrying the water of that intelligent, respectful, and well thought out discourse in the meantime. Something tells me you won’t have a problem with that at all.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I appreciate the kind words and there are times l feel compelled to participate more often but that usually dissipates soon after the the usual devolution occurs and the insults ensue. There are other forums for me to share ideas that don’t resort to that level of discourse. So you will have to keep carrying the water of that intelligent, respectful, and well thought out discourse in the meantime. Something tells me you won’t have a problem with that at all.

 

You're an idiot.

 

 

(I don't think you've been properly initiated, yet)

[B-Man]

Quote

 

Kimberley Strassel‏Verified account @KimStrassel

FollowFollow @KimStrassel

 

1) Don't believe anyone who claims Horowitz didn't find bias. He very carefully says that he found no "documentary" evidence that bias produced "specific investigatory decisions." That's different ...................#IGReport

 

2) It means he didn't catch anyone doing anything so dumb as writing down that they took a specific step to aid a candidate. You know, like: "Let's give out this Combetta immunity deal so nothing comes out that will derail Hillary for President." #IGReport

 

3) But he in fact finds bias everywhere. The examples are shocking and concerning, and he devotes entire sections to them. And he very specifically says in the summary that they "cast a cloud" on the entire "investigation's credibility." That's pretty damning. #IGReport

 

4) Meanwhile this same cast of characters who the IG has now found to have made a hash of the Clinton investigation and who demonstrate such bias, seamlessly moved to the Trump investigation. And we're supposed to think they got that one right? #IGReport

 

 

 

 

No one said straight up in writing "I'm making these decisions BECAUSE of my extreme bias."

 

That doesn't happen outside of a Scooby-Doo cartoon. But they were pretty darn close to just that.

 

 

 

.

Edited June 15, 2018 by B-Man

[Deranged Rhino]

11 minutes ago, B-Man said:

No one said straight up in writing "I'm making these decisions BECAUSE of my extreme bias."

That doesn't happen outside of a Scooby-Doo cartoon. But they were pretty darn close to just that.

 

And I'll add (again for emphasis) the OIG's job is not to assign motive or pronounce judgment either way. His job is to present facts to the DOJ and Congress, nothing more. Doing more would be improper. 

 

That's why Huber's role is important to keep in mind (and most people are not aware of him let alone understand his role). Huber and Sessions can make those calls and have the ability to bring charges. Huber was appointed by Sessions last year - and worked in secret for over six months before Sessions let anyone know about it. Huber has a grand jury empaneled in Utah, far outside DC, that's been working for at least two months.  None of that would not be going on if there was not a larger indictment/prosecution process planned.

 

That's why the body of the report is much more important than the Summary or Conclusion sections. The body contains facts - including a bunch of long speculated, now backed by evidence, facts. Huber and Horowitz have been working together in secret for months - without a filter between them. The unclassified conclusions and summary were edited and approved by RR and the DOJ before the report's release, but they have no impact on what Huber can do with the evidence contained in the body. See how it's going to work?

 

So, the FBI gets a "clean bill of health" with this report in the eyes of some. Meanwhile the cases are being built against the actual people who broke the law in the background rather than entire institutions. The goal has never been to burn down the FBI or DOJ. Both are needed - not only to have a functioning country, but if you're planning on prosecuting the offenders you need a functioning Department of Justice to bring the ball over the goal line. 

 

Now we are going to get a flurry of Congressional hearings (Horowitz is Monday to start it off), more subpoenas and testimony - drawing attention to the body of the report as both partisan sides try to claim victory in the media. All the while, Horowitz and Huber continue their work...

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

51 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

And I'll add (again for emphasis) the OIG's job is not to assign motive or pronounce judgment either way. His job is to present facts to the DOJ and Congress, nothing more. Doing more would be improper. 

 

That's why Huber's role is important to keep in mind (and most people are not aware of him let alone understand his role). Huber and Sessions can make those calls and have the ability to bring charges. Huber was appointed by Sessions last year - and worked in secret for over six months before Sessions let anyone know about it. Huber has a grand jury empaneled in Utah, far outside DC, that's been working for at least two months.  None of that would not be going on if there was not a larger indictment/prosecution process planned.

 

That's why the body of the report is much more important than the Summary or Conclusion sections. The body contains facts - including a bunch of long speculated, now backed by evidence, facts. Huber and Horowitz have been working together in secret for months - without a filter between them. The unclassified conclusions and summary were edited and approved by RR and the DOJ before the report's release, but they have no impact on what Huber can do with the evidence contained in the body. See how it's going to work?

 

So, the FBI gets a "clean bill of health" with this report in the eyes of some. Meanwhile the cases are being built against the actual people who broke the law in the background rather than entire institutions. The goal has never been to burn down the FBI or DOJ. Both are needed - not only to have a functioning country, but if you're planning on prosecuting the offenders you need a functioning Department of Justice to bring the ball over the goal line. 

 

Now we are going to get a flurry of Congressional hearings (Horowitz is Monday to start it off), more subpoenas and testimony - drawing attention to the body of the report as both partisan sides try to claim victory in the media. All the while, Horowitz and Huber continue their work...

 

 

Im not sure we DO need an FBI.

5 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

No, Joe.  There doesn't need to be payback.  This isn't a Mel Gibson movie.

 

 

Either we are governed by the rule of law, or we are not.  If we are not, as you seem to prefer, then everything the Obama Administration, their subordinate agencies, the Clinton Campaign and Foundation, and the DNC has done is completely acceptable, because the law doesn't matter. 

 

If the law does matter, then the law needs to be followed in their prosecution, if, and only if, laws were broken, and only for people who actually broke the law.

 

You’re maddening in your defense of the indefensible.

[Nanker]

12 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Im not sure we DO need an FBI.

Then just exactly are we as a nation supposed to do with J. Edgar Hoover’s favorite desk ornament - (John Dillinger’s12” penis) that he had preserved in formaldehyde a-la Lennin’s Trophy of Rasputin’s male member, one might ask? 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Nanker

[Prickly Pete]

15 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Im not sure we DO need an FBI.

 

You’re maddening in your defense of the indefensible.

 

He's just trying to play "I'm the levelest head" vs. K-9's "I'm the levelest head". 

Let them level each other.

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by OJABBA

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

Can confirm from my own sources:

 

**********************************************************************************************************

 

Pg. 294. Was going to save this for my longer write up but it's getting picked up now so might as well put it here. 

 

Read the full page in context (couldn't post an image myself, tried). 

 

There's more going on within the body of this report than it seems. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[Buffalo_Gal]

Anthony Weiner, the gift that keeps on giving (and yes, I realize that sounds terrible and can be taken in a multitude of ways. ?)

Edited June 15, 2018 by Buffalo_Gal
misspelled anthony

[TakeYouToTasker]

55 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Im not sure we DO need an FBI.

 

You’re maddening in your defense of the indefensible.

 

I defend the rule of law.  Full stop.

 

You're advocating for tyranny.

 

I'm advocating the import of the process.

 

You're advocating outcome at all cost.

 

I'm advocating for a long term, peaceful solution to the problem.

 

You're advocating for a fascist dictatorship empowered to crush it's political enemies.

 

Id rather be on my side.

[Deranged Rhino]