‘the Process’ = Fools Gold

[KDIGGZ]

yes you can find talented players outside of the 1st round.  but VERY RARELY will you ever find a QB outside of the 1st round!!!  don't give me the Tom Brady, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott nonsense.  that's like winning the lottery.  the vast majority of good QB's were high 1st round picks.  now we will not get a top QB in a draft year where there are a lot of good QB's because we once against went .500 +-1 game.  the only way will be if we trade away all of the picks we accumulated to move up

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, teef said:

that's the spirit!

Right on Q Teef!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

30 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Has any successful organization ever gotten to that point without having a process they followed?

No they have not!

[Chandler#81]

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Let’s discuss this.

The Process includes drafting players who were 3 or 4 year starters in college, with Captaincy and Conference recognition. Factual, right? 

The Process includes ridding the team of highly compensated prima donnas who -in coach’s mind, lack a gritty work ethic. Factual, right?

The Process includes bringing high-motor jags in to substitute regularly and play ST’s. Factual, right?

 

So, is it just ‘opinion’ that McDermott wouldn’t have wanted Shady McCoy -with his racial tantrums, prima-drama-‘tude and off field disgressions on his team? If you think he would, you’re not understanding ‘the Process’. Is it just ‘opinion’ that McDermott would forsake a trade for Big Ben, given his past promiscuity? The Process says yes to it. The problem with ‘the Process’ is how great players who fit these descriptions dominate games, lead to many victories and they can be found on every contending team. It typically is motivation for their stellar play, Process notwithstanding. 

In short, 53 choir boys enraptured by a Process don’t achieve greatness. History says so.

 

please share your factual information.

 

Simple.  Success in the NFL more than any other sport goes far beyond physical ability.

 

Scheme and opportunity play a huge role.  Many times coaches will see a player and think they can plug him into their scheme but what they ask a player to do in their system isn't what he is good at. Are there similarities in the schemes?  Sure there are but there are a lot of base philosophies that are diametrically opposed to each other in schemes. Or the player might fall out of favor with a new coaching staff. Or he might get injured and passed on the depth chart.

 

Does you corner play man or zone mainly?  Do you want your DT to occupy space and blockers or penetrate?  Do you want your LB's to rush or cover? Do you want your RB's to stay between the tackles or run stretch plays to the outside?  

 

Every position has these things and too often guys are drafted in what are just bad scheme fits. Or they are drafted into one scheme and then the coaches are fired and he is in a different scheme which asks him to do completely different things.  

 

Having a better chance at drafting a good player does not translate as well as it does in other sports to actually drafting a better player.  There are a lot of assumptions you have to make---this player wasn't asked to do this in college...can he do it or not? You may think he can, but what if he can't?  Or players who were 1 year starters...are they really that good or 1 hit wonders?  

 

There is so much uncertainty with how players skills in college translate to the NFL that many times drafting lower helps because you aren't as likely to take a guy with a super high ceiling but a guy that could also be a bust...mid round, you are typically looking at guys you can plug into your lineups that can be solid 10 year type players...and sometimes you strike gold like the Texans did with JJ Watt at 11...Steelers did with Big Ben...etc...

 

Then you start looking at guys who fell out of the first round for whatever reason who play very well and end up being "steals"...guys coming from smaller colleges...how does that translate to better competition?

 

Drafting in the NFL is an inexact science more than any other league and acting like just because you have a high pick means you are going to get a great player is just silliness...you might, but you also might get a bust.

Edited December 18, 2017 by matter2003

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

yes you can find talented players outside of the 1st round.  but VERY RARELY will you ever find a QB outside of the 1st round!!!  don't give me the Tom Brady, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott nonsense.  that's like winning the lottery.  the vast majority of good QB's were high 1st round picks.  now we will not get a top QB in a draft year where there are a lot of good QB's because we once against went .500 +-1 game.  the only way will be if we trade away all of the picks we accumulated to move up

Define vast majority.  Because I can name a number of HOF QBs that weren't.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Sadly, this season will be known more for the disaster it is 3-4 years down the road. The increasing number of excellent college players is slipping dramatically with each meaningless win in a Draft year where we’ve garnered so many high pics at such a great cost. ‘The Process’ is pure Fools Gold. We simply aren’t talented enough to be considered contending, and now we likely won’t be for a few more years either. QB, DE, DL, OL, RB & WR need upgrades and more than a few players played their last Home Game yesterday. Our wins this year were all unnecessarily close and gifted with multiple T/O’s and ridiculously long FG’s. Our losses? No T/Os and blown out of stadiums. 

Even if we somehow receive a holiday miracle to break the 17 year streak for one more hour, we’re in worse shape talent wise than we were before ‘the Process’ started shredding the roster. I’ll go on record as saying we won’t make the playoffs and the result of this tease will negatively impact the team for years to come.

Yeah man yeah!!! They should have all just not tried and forfeited every game.  Try splainin that to a player on the team.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

Define great player.  And if you put guys like Dareus or Sammy in there. Define exactly how they are great.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

 

Dont encourage the addition of new negative nancies. #process #trustit

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Simple.  Success in the NFL more than any other sport goes far beyond physical ability.

 

Scheme and opportunity play a huge role.  Many times coaches will see a player and think they can plug him into their scheme but what they ask a player to do in their system isn't what he is good at. Are there similarities in the schemes?  Sure there are but there are a lot of base philosophies that are diametrically opposed to each other in schemes. Or the player might fall out of favor with a new coaching staff. Or he might get injured and passed on the depth chart.

 

Does you corner play man or zone mainly?  Do you want your DT to occupy space and blockers or penetrate?  Do you want your LB's to rush or cover? Do you want your RB's to stay between the tackles or run stretch plays to the outside?  

 

Every position has these things and too often guys are drafted in what are just bad scheme fits. Or they are drafted into one scheme and then the coaches are fired and he is in a different scheme which asks him to do completely different things.  

 

Having a better chance at drafting a good player does not translate as well as it does in other sports to actually drafting a better player.  There are a lot of assumptions you have to make---this player wasn't asked to do this in college...can he do it or not? You may think he can, but what if he can't?  Or players who were 1 year starters...are they really that good or 1 hit wonders?  

 

There is so much uncertainty with how players skills in college translate to the NFL that many times drafting lower helps because you aren't as likely to take a guy with a super high ceiling but a guy that could also be a bust...mid round, you are typically looking at guys you can plug into your lineups that can be solid 10 year type players...and sometimes you strike gold like the Texans did with JJ Watt at 11...Steelers did with Big Ben...etc...

 

Then you start looking at guys who fell out of the first round for whatever reason who play very well..

 

Drafting in the NFL is an inexact science more than any other league and acting like just because you have a high pick means you are going to get a great player is just sillines...you might, but you also might get a bust.

Great post, m03! I hope you realize I agree. We do know what Defense McD wants to run, but we’re woefully weak at talent for specific positions. Yes, they’ll likely try to address these quickly, but with so many D coordinators with completely different philosophies over a short period of time, we’re left with a hodgepodge of mediocrity. 

I still haven’t figured out what Dennison is trying to do..

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Define great player.  And if you put guys like Dareus or Sammy in there. Define exactly how they are great.

What is this? 20 Questions?

if, like me, you really are an oldmanfan, you don’t need my definition. It’s the same as yours. Great Players who are nationally recognized as game changers.

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

 

I, personally, would like to see every single one of those players gone.

 

The only Bill McD was responsible for leaving, whom I'd have rather they kept, is Dareus.  Everyone else?  Good riddance.  And for that list above, I'd be ecstatic to see them all pack up and go.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Gugny

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

you're an awful negative sort OP.

[1st&ten]

I like that the team is still playing hard, albeit with lesser talent than some contenders. If we draft at 18-24 instead of 8-10 we're still going to get talent, In the past some of the Bills best players were drafted in the 12-25 range. We also have money for free agents next year. As for the QB question I don't have an answer, that's where the new guys will earn their money.

[muppy]

59 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Obviously, you still don’t feel good. Ok, let me help you. How do the hapless Bills make the playoffs?

1.) Beat the Patriots in New England. 

  OK, Plan B;

2.) Beat Miami twice in 3 games, this time at Miami.

  OK, Plan C;

3.) Multiple natural disasters, mass murders of contending teams players, along with plague, infestation and other deadly diseases.

Then, after 1& Done, where you dance in the street anyway because the streak was broken..

 

Draft in the 20’s after likely departures of other current and past PB players..

 

There. Happy Now??

"hapless Bills" a team with a WINNING record and in the playoff hunt is now hapless...I'll take hapless over out of the running any day any season dearie....and u wonder why people think your post is trolling? There u have it  Take a bow.  *rolls my eyes*

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Great post, m03! I hope you realize I agree. We do know what Defense McD wants to run, but we’re woefully weak at talent for specific positions. Yes, they’ll likely try to address these quickly, but with so many D coordinators with completely different philosophies over a short period of time, we’re left with a hodgepodge of mediocrity. 

I still haven’t figured out what Dennison is trying to do..

What is this? 20 Questions?

if, like me, you really are an oldmanfan, you don’t need my definition. It’s the same as yours. Great Players who are nationally recognized as game changers.

I would agree.  And thus you would agree we traded no one like that.

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

you're an awful negative sort OP.

Ha! I’ve been a fan of the team since it was announced the ‘Buffalo Bills’ would be re-established in 1959.

Aside from 3 wonderful years in the mid ‘60’s and an 11 year run of contending, I’ve earned the right to be a grumpy old man!

[QCity]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Sadly, this season will be known more for the disaster it is 3-4 years down the road. The increasing number of excellent college players is slipping dramatically with each meaningless win in a Draft year where we’ve garnered so many high pics at such a great cost. ‘The Process’ is pure Fools Gold. We simply aren’t talented enough to be considered contending, and now we likely won’t be for a few more years either. QB, DE, DL, OL, RB & WR need upgrades and more than a few players played their last Home Game yesterday. Our wins this year were all unnecessarily close and gifted with multiple T/O’s and ridiculously long FG’s. Our losses? No T/Os and blown out of stadiums. 

Even if we somehow receive a holiday miracle to break the 17 year streak for one more hour, we’re in worse shape talent wise than we were before ‘the Process’ started shredding the roster. I’ll go on record as saying we won’t make the playoffs and the result of this tease will negatively impact the team for years to come.

 

We were never going to be contenders this year or next year anyways.

[PABillsfan23]

2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

How has being bad for so long helped the Browns? Oh yeah, that's right, they are still horrible. They have been trying to build that thing for years and still haven't done anything

Being average hasn’t done Buffalo any good either 

[The Now Moment]

What happens if we use those draft picks to find our next franchise QB?  Just wondering.  Will everyone think they are geniuses or still be upset we didn't keep Sammy Watkins and the others?  

[Buffalo03]

9 minutes ago, PABillsfan23 said:

Being average hasn’t done Buffalo any good either 

I feel like it's been more of a problem with Management, front office and coaching the last few seasons as opposed to talent. I think if we would have stuck with Marrone and kept Schwartz we would already be a contender. With McDermott and Beane now, I trust them to build around the right players. I don't think draft position is as important as it was. We should never settle for tanking. We have the longest drought in North American sports. Lets get to the playoffs if we can and build from there

Edited December 18, 2017 by Buffalo03

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

7 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Ha! I’ve been a fan of the team since it was announced the ‘Buffalo Bills’ would be re-established in 1959.

Aside from 3 wonderful years in the mid ‘60’s and an 11 year run of contending, I’ve earned the right to be a grumpy old man!

 

even an old cat like myself can turn a new leaf. trust me, I've been down on the team that also brought me down but I am going to let the negativity ease up some and give them a couple seasons. hell, who would of thought they would be sitting at 8-6 with a chance at the post season with two games left? 

 

that said, being a fan since the inception doesn't mean you can't leave the door open for possibilities for the future. but, since you have already shut the door, carry on with your grumpy old self and believe as you will.

[Mat68]

To succeed at anything consistently there are usually outlines you need to always follow to get the same or similar results.  Thing dont just happen.  Buffalo has proven you cant just draft talent and expect a playoff spot, like you can spend a bunch of money in FA and expect to make the playoffs.  The issue with the franchise has been systemic for years.  His most talent young players where stat me guys.  Looking at the roster Buffalo was surprisingly old with little cap space.  They parlayed 2 of the more talented guys on the roster for picks and more team friendly players.  Daures' contract was a mistake and they desperately needed to get out from under it.   You would think Shady would be that but he never has been a me first player.  He may be outspoken at times but has never been reported to be a bad teammate or didn't want to do everything in his power to win.  

 

So here we are week 16 Buffalo most certainly has to be eliminated from the playoffs already.  There best players from previous years are either in LA or NE.  As much as you want to hate the "Process", or make fun of, it is getting increasing more difficult to doubt it.  Buffalo In 1 season went from a real issue with the cap to a fairly good position.  Buffalo went from too old and no future Qb to having the best draft capital the team has had in decades.  The most important part Buffalo is still holding on to the 6th seed in the playoffs. and are 8-6 for the first time since 1999 the last time Buffalo has made the playoffs.  Of all the talk about the future and win now, Buffalo has a bright future with the cap space and picks .  While they are also in the best playoff position in years.  But The Op is right Mcdermott is fools gold.  

[T-Bomb]

2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Should moderators really be trollin?

 

So the guy is trolling because what he says makes KoolAid drinkers/homers butthurt?

 

Uhm, no.

 

Even if we have a miracle one and done drought ending season, it's not worth the quality of talent we are watching slip away IMO.  We will not be getting a franchise QB in the 2018 draft, that is bad news for the future of the franchise.

 

So many Bills fans are so clueless....

 

[PatsFanNH]

Just my two cents, but as long as your GM and coach go for players that work in their system they are trying to establish and NOT go for that big name splash I see a consistent playoff team and possibly a SB contender. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 minute ago, T-Bomb said:

 

So the guy is trolling because what he says makes KoolAid drinkers/homers butthurt?

 

Uhm, no.

 

Even if we have a miracle one and done drought ending season, it's not worth the quality of talent we are watching slip away IMO.  We will not be getting a franchise QB in the 2018 draft, that is bad news for the future of the franchise.

 

So many Bills fans are so clueless....

 

 

why do you feel the need to post like this? why call out fans with the childish name calling?

 

does it make you feel better? it makes you look like a moron. are you moron? 

 

 

[T-Bomb]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

why do you feel the need to post like this? why call out fans with the childish name calling?

 

does it make you feel better? it makes you look like a moron. are you moron? 

 

 

 

No, it makes me sad that so many Bills fans are idiots.

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, T-Bomb said:

 

No, it makes me sad that so many Bills fans are idiots.

 

What gives you the right to call people idiots?

 

Putting down others for enjoying wins is absolutely pathetic.

[Real McClappy]

Whatever, surprised to see this post in all honesty. This team could easily be 10-4 right now. What your seeing is a coach that understands his players and actually coaches them.

Call it whatever you want. I see a team doing something we have not done in the past and it appears to work. We have a ton of cap room next year and numerous picks. You could see a legit team on the field next year depending on what we decide to do in the FA market. 

 

Go Bills!

27 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

So the guy is trolling because what he says makes KoolAid drinkers/homers butthurt?

 

Uhm, no.

 

Even if we have a miracle one and done drought ending season, it's not worth the quality of talent we are watching slip away IMO.  We will not be getting a franchise QB in the 2018 draft, that is bad news for the future of the franchise.

 

So many Bills fans are so clueless....

 

You have serious issues. Why front like your even a fan?

Edited December 18, 2017 by Real McCoy

[GunnerBill]

I think it is an interesting discussion. I get the sentiment that a 9-7 this year would not feel to me like a 9-7 in 2014 when we had a mean defense capable of being together at least another year or two and some solid young talent in key spots. 2014 to me felt like we were a QB away. I feel like we would be further away this offseason.... but that in itself should not be the final judgment on the process.... the way they spend their draft capital this spring will have a big influence on the ultimate success or failure. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

20 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

No, it makes me sad that so many Bills fans are idiots.

 

yep, you're a moron.

[klos63]

26 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

So the guy is trolling because what he says makes KoolAid drinkers/homers butthurt?

 

Uhm, no.

 

Even if we have a miracle one and done drought ending season, it's not worth the quality of talent we are watching slip away IMO.  We will not be getting a franchise QB in the 2018 draft, that is bad news for the future of the franchise.

 

So many Bills fans are so clueless....

 

say's the person who doesn't want us to make the playoffs so we can draft higher.

[dawolv]

Every coach has his/her philosophy and marketing schtick.  Levy had a process, as did Marrone and Rex (some clearly not as good as others).  If we can win another game, ideally two more games we need to give this regime at least two years to execute their plan.  Lots of great players available next year and we drafted some great talent this year.  I as well was bummed with some of the talent/cap space we traded away but these guys also signed some big names and keep finding scheme guys to add along the way when dealing with injuries.  Seriously, Cap Capi played well this week!  

[Real McClappy]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Looks like someone has a case of the mondays

 

Those usually come after a crushing loss though. Not after a huge win with 2 weeks remaining, staring the playoffs in the face?

[T-Bomb]

20 minutes ago, klos63 said:

say's the person who doesn't want us to make the playoffs so we can draft higher.

 

The Bills have gone nowhere for the last 20+ years without a franchise QB. We finally have a chance to draft one, but yet most fans are "oh boy a peanut" at the chance of a 9-7 back your way into the playoff's one & done season....  Just doesn't make sense to take the gratification now over the betterment of the franchise over the long term.  It's nonsensical.

 

Is everyone hurting that much?  Need to think championships not meaningless playoff berths.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by T-Bomb

[Bing Bong]

I 100% absolutely disagree with this thought process. We're contending right now! I don't care about what happens down the road, that's what half a year of offseason is for. Right now let's just enjoy watching meaningful football. That's what we deserve as fans, I'd be livid watching a tank job all season, life's too short to just check out of something you love watching for a year.

 

That Steelers/Patriots game was infinitely more fun to watch knowing the impact it had on the Bills. This last week was one of the more enjoyable weeks of football I can remember in a long time.

[T-Bomb]

1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

We're contending right now!

 

For what exactly?

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, T-Bomb said:

 

For what exactly?

For the playoffs Sherlock, a chance at the Superbowl. I know what you're driving at lol, glad you're not a Bill. Coaches, players, fans, should expect nothing less than the Bills giving it their all in any given season. The future is for GMs and fans to speculate on in the offseason.

[klos63]

10 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

The Bills have gone nowhere for the last 20+ years without a franchise QB. We finally have a chance to draft one, but yet most fans are "oh boy a peanut" at the chance of a 9-7 back your way into the playoff's one & done season....  Just doesn't make sense to take the gratification now over the betterment of the franchise over the long term.  It's nonsensical.

 

Is everyone hurting that much?  Need to think championships not meaningless playoff berths.

 

 

 

 

 

I find nothing meaningless about a playoff berth.

[Rico]

The flawed talent that left town is the "Fool's Gold".

 

Learn how to win, change the culture, make the playoffs, and the sky's the limit.

[T-Bomb]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

I find nothing meaningless about a playoff berth.

 

Too many fans are looking to simply get a monkey off their backs, it could severely hamper the future. It's shortsighted.