Coach Tuesday's Tyrod Thread

[Coach Tuesday]

As we close out the Tyrod Era with three final games, I thought I'd take the time to start my first and only Tyrod thread.

 

I came across this article about Russell Wilson, and reading it reminded me of Tyrod in many ways - if you sub out Wilson with Tyrod, and sub in a decent offensive coordinator like Bevell, you'd get a similar analysis IMO.  The gist: a player who is hard to design gameplans for on offense, but equally hard to design gameplans to stop on defense.

 

Anyhow, I wish Tyrod luck.  Hopefully luck and good agent work will get him somewhere where he can be paired up with a creative offensive mind.  Ty, it was fun watching you do your thing, as frustrating as it sometimes was - there were miraculous "wow" moments in there as well.

 

Happy reading folks:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell

[Socal-805]

 

How do you design an offense around a guy who can't throw?

 

NO...  Tryrod is NOT like Russell Wilson.  Don't...  just DON'T!

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

How do you design an offense around a guy who can't throw?

 

NO...  Tryrod is NOT like Russell Wilson.  Don't...  just DON'T!

 

 

 

I think he'd be a great fit as a QB in that smashmouth spread option stuff they do in college.  Throw in some perimeter screens, and bring some tempo.  You can run zones and powers, and they won't be able to crowd the line.  If they do you can do play action, screens, and vertical concepts. 

 

It's a lot of isolating matchups and picking on the same people over and over again.  If you bring a fast tempo, the other team won't be able to sub in/out and will be forced to adapt on the fly.

 

It's not ideal - but i think we'd probably score more points than we have been.  We'd need to be constantly adding speed at WR, as well as RB.  

Edited December 15, 2017 by dneveu

[Scott7975]

20 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

How do you design an offense around a guy who can't throw?

 

NO...  Tryrod is NOT like Russell Wilson.  Don't...  just DON'T!

 

 

You do what Roman/Lynn did and have a top 10 scoring offense.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

You do what Roman/Lynn did and have a top 10 scoring offense.

 

My main issue with Roman was the slow play calling, and not having a 2 minute offense.  

[Stank_Nasty]

8 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I think he'd be a great fit as a QB in that smashmouth spread option stuff they do in college.  Throw in some perimeter screens, and bring some tempo.  You can run zones and powers, and they won't be able to crowd the line.  If they do you can do play action, screens, and vertical concepts. 

 

It's a lot of isolating matchups and picking on the same people over and over again.  If you bring a fast tempo, the other team won't be able to sub in/out and will be forced to adapt on the fly.

 

It's not ideal - but i think we'd probably score more points than we have been.  We'd need to be constantly adding speed at WR, as well as RB.  

TENN's "exotic smash mouth" offense is what I always think of for taylor. they are 8-5 right now with mariota playing wayyyy below average. you cant convince me they wouldn't be a better team with a guy like taylor at qb this year.

 

as for the op's Wilson comparsion? no way. sorry. cant go there.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Stank_Nasty

[The Now Moment]

Huge difference between the two.  The simple aggression that Wilson plays with in the passing game puts him in a completely different category than Tyrod.  Tyrod is conservative and doesn't take chances while Wilson consistently takes chances and has a high success rate when doing so.  His willingness to let his wide receivers make a play and trust in his teammates is on a different level than Tyrod's.

[Scott7975]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

My main issue with Roman was the slow play calling, and not having a 2 minute offense.  

Yeah, I didn't like Roman either but Lynn used his system to perfection with Tyrod.  While Tyrod wasn't responsible for all that scoring, he was a piece of it and was good enough in certain moments to help get those points.  Any team that has a top 10 scoring offense and a good defense to back them up can be successful in this league.  The Jags with Marrone are pretty much doing that right now.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

TENN's "exotic smash mouth" offense is what I always think of for taylor. they are 8-5 right now with mariota playing wayyyy below average. you cant convince me they wouldn't be a better team with a guy like taylor at qb this year.

 

as for the op's Wilson comparsion? no way. sorry. cant go there.

 

I think they both have good arms.  Both throw well on the run.  Both are short.  They are 2 of the most elusive players I've ever seen.  

 

Wilson is more accurate.  More precise. More consistent.  More of a big-game player.  Spreads the ball around more successfully, and seems to  understand game situations much more.  

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

TENN's "exotic smash mouth" offense is what I always think of for taylor. they are 8-5 right now with mariota playing wayyyy below average. you cant convince me they wouldn't be a better team with a guy like taylor at qb this year.

 

as for the op's Wilson comparsion? no way. sorry. cant go there.

 

Exactly - hammer defenses with a big back, and H-back/FB moving around in the backfield.  Zone reads, screens, powers.  I just don't get why we run this WCO/outside Zone thing.  

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

My main issue with Roman was the slow play calling, and not having a 2 minute offense.  

It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.

[NewEra]

49 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

As we close out the Tyrod Era with three final games, I thought I'd take the time to start my first and only Tyrod thread.

 

I came across this article about Russell Wilson, and reading it reminded me of Tyrod in many ways - if you sub out Wilson with Tyrod, and sub in a decent offensive coordinator like Bevell, you'd get a similar analysis IMO.  The gist: a player who is hard to design gameplans for on offense, but equally hard to design gameplans to stop on defense.

 

Anyhow, I wish Tyrod luck.  Hopefully luck and good agent work will get him somewhere where he can be paired up with a creative offensive mind.  Ty, it was fun watching you do your thing, as frustrating as it sometimes was - there were miraculous "wow" moments in there as well.

 

Happy reading folks:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell

Word. Really was hoping he’d improve on his progressions while being more aggressive and taking more chances throwing the football.  He’s a special player running the ball. One of the best scramblers ever. The stars just didn’t align in Buffalo.  Hopefully he can succeed somewhere in the NFC.  Pretty sure he’ll be throwing pinpoint lasers all over the field next time he faces McDermott. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.

 

And before that it was Kaepernick and Alex Smith.... http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2015/09/30/the-greg-roman-re-re-evaluation-if-you-were-paying-attention-during-his-49ers-tenure-you-actually-dont-have-to-keep-changing-your-mind/

 

–The staggering amount of delay-of-game penalties and rushed snaps at the play-clock was not a great example of strategic and functional brilliance. Right there, that was bad on Roman and Harbaugh.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dneveu

[Teddy KGB]

Russ Wilson = franchise 

 

TT = bottom 3rd qb

[Bangarang]

19 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

You do what Roman/Lynn did and have a top 10 scoring offense.

 

Have elite rushing attacks? That’s really the big difference. This year. Statistically Tyrod is doing what he always does. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

21 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I think he'd be a great fit as a QB in that smashmouth spread option stuff they do in college.  Throw in some perimeter screens, and bring some tempo.  You can run zones and powers, and they won't be able to crowd the line.  If they do you can do play action, screens, and vertical concepts. 

 

It's a lot of isolating matchups and picking on the same people over and over again.  If you bring a fast tempo, the other team won't be able to sub in/out and will be forced to adapt on the fly.

 

It's not ideal - but i think we'd probably score more points than we have been.  We'd need to be constantly adding speed at WR, as well as RB.  

 

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Word. Really was hoping he’d improve on his progressions while being more aggressive and taking more chances throwing the football.  He’s a special player running the ball. One of the best scramblers ever. The stars just didn’t align in Buffalo.  Hopefully he can succeed somewhere in the NFC.  Pretty sure he’ll be throwing pinpoint lasers all over the field next time he faces McDermott. 

 

23 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I think he'd be a great fit as a QB in that smashmouth spread option stuff they do in college.  Throw in some perimeter screens, and bring some tempo.  You can run zones and powers, and they won't be able to crowd the line.  If they do you can do play action, screens, and vertical concepts. 

 

It's a lot of isolating matchups and picking on the same people over and over again.  If you bring a fast tempo, the other team won't be able to sub in/out and will be forced to adapt on the fly.

 

It's not ideal - but i think we'd probably score more points than we have been.  We'd need to be constantly adding speed at WR, as well as RB.  

Maybe when he goes back to college to run that offense he can take a few class's and up that Wonderlic score from 15

[LarryMadman]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.

^^^^This^^^^

 

It is truly amazing that people still think Taylor is a good QB and would excel in this offense or that offense etc. 

 

The guy is a bad QB, how bad does he have to play for that to be realized? 56 yard games or how about 65 yard games? 23 out of 40 starts under 200 yards passing? 28 out of 40 starts passing for 1 TD or less? or "just make him be a QB". Just about every stat of his has incrementally declined as more film on him has become available. I personally don't see that trend changing no matter where he goes or what coaches he has next year. Tyrod has not changed his game as the defensive coordinators have changed there schemes to shut him down. A fatal flaw he does not seem to be able to adjust to. Unfortunately for him his days as a starter in the league appear to be done at the end of this year. IMO   

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Have elite rushing attacks? That’s really the big difference. This year. Statistically Tyrod is doing what he always does. 

What they did was working for us.  What our coaching staff isn't.  So whatever you want to call it, call it.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

^^^^This^^^^

 

It is truly amazing that people still think Taylor is a good QB and would excel in this offense or that offense etc. 

 

The guy is a bad QB, how bad does he have to play for that to be realized? 56 yard games or how about 65 yard games? 23 out of 40 starts under 200 yards passing? 28 out of 40 starts passing for 1 TD or less? or "just make him be a QB". Just about every stat of his has incrementally declined as more film on him has become available. I personally don't see that trend changing no matter where he goes or what coaches he has next year. Tyrod has not changed his game as the defensive coordinators have changed there schemes to shut him down. A fatal flaw he does not seem to be able to adjust to. Unfortunately for him his days as a starter in the league appear to be done at the end of this year. IMO   

 

You can create a scheme for a bad/flawed QB though.  We don't have a good QB on the roster - so if you're trying to win.... you would scheme around your QBs strong suits.  Not mash everyone into your existing scheme.

 

He's had upwards of 20 passes batted down at the line this year.  Clearly the 3 step drop rhythm pass isn't working, maybe we try something else.  

 

They're constantly stacking the line and forcing him to get the ball out quick and he's holding it... maybe we spread them out so they can't stack the LOS... so we can run the ball more effectively.

 

I'm not claiming hes good... I'm just saying if he's who youre going with, maybe you should try and do something different.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dneveu

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

What they did was working for us.  What our coaching staff isn't.  So whatever you want to call it, call it.  

 

The passing game wasn’t working for us. That’s kind of the point since this is a Tyrod thread. We had a top 10 scoring offense despite an anemic a passing attack. 

[Teddy KGB]

19 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

What they did was working for us.  What our coaching staff isn't.  So whatever you want to call it, call it.  

 

It was working if you like blowouts vs bad teams, no shows vs good teams, and .500 football.   

 

I wish the cot would let this die.  

[LABILLBACKER]

43 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Huge difference between the two.  The simple aggression that Wilson plays with in the passing game puts him in a completely different category than Tyrod.  Tyrod is conservative and doesn't take chances while Wilson consistently takes chances and has a high success rate when doing so.  His willingness to let his wide receivers make a play and trust in his teammates is on a different level than Tyrod's.

Ding...Ding....Ding

Here's the winning answer!

[Scott7975]

15 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

The passing game wasn’t working for us. That’s kind of the point since this is a Tyrod thread. We had a top 10 scoring offense despite an anemic a passing attack. 

He still accounted for 23 of our 46 TDs either in the air or by his own legs.  He still made key first downs whether by air or by his own feet.  It still put us in the top 10 of scoring no matter how you look at it.  The one game EJ played dropped us from 7th to 10th.

2 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

It was working if you like blowouts vs bad teams, no shows vs good teams, and .500 football.   

 

I wish the cot would let this die.  

There is no CoT Crusher.  If there is then I am not part of it.

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

As we close out the Tyrod Era with three final games, I thought I'd take the time to start my first and only Tyrod thread.

 

I came across this article about Russell Wilson, and reading it reminded me of Tyrod in many ways - if you sub out Wilson with Tyrod, and sub in a decent offensive coordinator like Bevell, you'd get a similar analysis IMO.  The gist: a player who is hard to design gameplans for on offense, but equally hard to design gameplans to stop on defense.

 

Anyhow, I wish Tyrod luck.  Hopefully luck and good agent work will get him somewhere where he can be paired up with a creative offensive mind.  Ty, it was fun watching you do your thing, as frustrating as it sometimes was - there were miraculous "wow" moments in there as well.

 

Happy reading folks:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell

 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

My main issue with Roman was the slow play calling, and not having a 2 minute offense.  

agreed. 
I miss Kromer btw

45 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Have elite rushing attacks? That’s really the big difference. This year. Statistically Tyrod is doing what he always does. 

But that was working.
what happened to that?

 no downfield threats any more perhaps?

30 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

The passing game wasn’t working for us. That’s kind of the point since this is a Tyrod thread. We had a top 10 scoring offense despite an anemic a passing attack. 

it worked enough to open up the run game didn't it?

16 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Ding...Ding....Ding

Here's the winning answer!

Its true. But why does he protect the ball so much?

Edited December 15, 2017 by 3rdand12

[LarryMadman]

6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 

Its true. But why does he protect the ball so much?

IMO, it's because he doesn't see the field or sees something too late and takes or is forced to check it down, the safe throw. 

 

IMO if he is seeing things too late, then he is failing to recognize things pre snap.

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, LarryMadman said:

IMO, it's because he doesn't see the field or sees something too late and takes or is forced to check it down, the safe throw. 

 

IMO if he is seeing things too late, then he is failing to recognize things pre snap.

No question about the pre snap errors that occur.

 But he often seems over protective with he does see the player open. And i do not mean when We fans see a player open, but when he clearly has his eyes on someone he often seems to hesitate

[Jay_Fixit]

This Tyrod, he’s a very very bad QB.

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

You do what Roman/Lynn did and have a top 10 scoring offense.

We were losing in many of those games. Most of those scores came in garbage time

[Bangarang]

42 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

He still accounted for 23 of our 46 TDs either in the air or by his own legs.  He still made key first downs whether by air or by his own feet.  It still put us in the top 10 of scoring no matter how you look at it.  The one game EJ played dropped us from 7th to 10th.

 

He was largely along for the ride. Let’s not pretend like he was the driving force behind our top 10 scoring offense because that would just be silly. If the running game was doing well then we were typically doing well and scoring points. 

 

The one game EJ played also only had McCoy in the game for 5 carries. Let’s not pretend all things were equal and the only difference was EJ.

 

our offense was really good because the running game was really good. Now it’s not and unsurprisingly the offense has not done as well. Tyrod has still had his typical production. Saying you want to go back to what Roman and Lynn did is basically just saying you want an elite rushing attack again because the passing game is exactly where it has been the last 2 years as well.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Bangarang

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

He was largely along for the ride. Let’s not pretend like he was the driving force behind our top 10 scoring offense because that would just be silly. If the running game was doing well then we were typically doing well and scoring points. 

 

The one game EJ played also only had McCoy in the game for 5 carries. Let’s not pretend all things were equal and the only difference was EJ.

 

our offense was really good because the running game was really good. Now it’s not and unsurprisingly the offense has not done as well. Tyrod has still had his typical production. Saying you want to go back to what Ran and Lynn did is basically just saying you want an elite rushing attack again.l because the passing game is exactly where it has been the last 2 years as well.

Well if you go back to my original post I indicated that Tyrod wasn't responsible for all those points but was a piece of it.

 

Lets not pretend that Tyrod was horrible the last couple years and had nothing to do with the points our offense scored.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

And before that it was Kaepernick and Alex Smith.... http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2015/09/30/the-greg-roman-re-re-evaluation-if-you-were-paying-attention-during-his-49ers-tenure-you-actually-dont-have-to-keep-changing-your-mind/

 

–The staggering amount of delay-of-game penalties and rushed snaps at the play-clock was not a great example of strategic and functional brilliance. Right there, that was bad on Roman and Harbaugh.

Kaep is out of the league and Alex Smith had his career resurrected by Roman.

 

Solid examples, I guess.

[Scott7975]

16 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

We were losing in many of those games. Most of those scores came in garbage time

Yeah ok.  More than half of the points came in games we won.  A couple of the games we lost came down to the wire.  So no, most of those points were not in "garbage time."

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Well if you go back to my original post I indicated that Tyrod wasn't responsible for all those points but was a piece of it.

 

Lets not pretend that Tyrod was horrible the last couple years and had nothing to do with the points our offense scored.

 

You cited Roman and Lynn so I responded to that point. Neither of them got much more production of out Tyrod. This is who he is. 

 

To your 2nd point, that’s not what I’m saying. Not at all.

[TigerJ]

Tyrod has more pure athleticism.  Russell Wilson is more instinctive in the passing game and far more able to throw with anticipation.  I think Seattle's OC wrestles with fewer limitations than does Buffalo's.

[Mikie2times]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

You can create a scheme for a bad/flawed QB though.  We don't have a good QB on the roster - so if you're trying to win.... you would scheme around your QBs strong suits.  Not mash everyone into your existing scheme.

 

He's had upwards of 20 passes batted down at the line this year.  Clearly the 3 step drop rhythm pass isn't working, maybe we try something else.  

 

They're constantly stacking the line and forcing him to get the ball out quick and he's holding it... maybe we spread them out so they can't stack the LOS... so we can run the ball more effectively.

ull.

I'm not claiming hes good... I'm just saying if he's who youre going with, maybe you should try and do something different.

 

I agree with this 100%. He has his limitations. That said how many deep balls this season? How much read option? How much Shotgun? How much designed roll outs? We aren't utilizing his best tools and that's the difference between this years Tyrod verse more successful versions the previous two years. Again, debatable if those seasons are enough to call him the guy, but much better play. High points per game, dynamic running attack, and always a deep ball threat. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by KzooMike

[fansince88]

17 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.

I dont know. I think it was Taylor.

[Scott7975]

23 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor. It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.It was Taylor.

It must have been Kaepernick and Smith too because they had the same problem in SF.

[Beast]

My family thinks Tyrod Taylor is a jerk.

[moshermw]

On 12/15/2017 at 9:08 PM, KzooMike said:

 

I agree with this 100%. He has his limitations. That said how many deep balls this season? How much read option? How much Shotgun? How much designed roll outs? We aren't utilizing his best tools and that's the difference between this years Tyrod verse more successful versions the previous two years. Again, debatable if those seasons are enough to call him the guy, but much better play. High points per game, dynamic running attack, and always a deep ball threat. 

Best post ITT. Square peg, round hole this season - and it looked on purpose to push TT out. Peterman 5 pick game cemented that for me.

[CommonCents]

Russel Wilson Tyrod Taylor 

Mercedes  Kia