Who starts next week: Taylor or Peterman?

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

I will say Peterman is starting this week. The coaching staff is trying out their options before we go into next year and cut Tyrod loose. Need to know if Peterman is adequate to keep on the roster.

Yet so many people are having such a hard time with this concept...It’s quite entertaining....so many panties in bunches.

Edited November 21, 2017 by JaCrispy

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

What did I say that’s not true? 

He would have avoided the rush like he has all year.  

 

29 sacks in 9 games.   4th most sacked QB in the NFL.  FACT

3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yet so many people are having such a hard time with this concept...It’s quite entertaining....so many panties in bunches.

For clarity - Who's panties?  

 

People who have had enough with Taylor or the Taylor faithful? 

 

You know its bad when people want 5 INT's over TT.    [read that heavy on sarcasm] 

Edited November 21, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[JaCrispy]

6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

He would have avoided the rush like he has all year.  

 

29 sacks in 9 games.   4th most sacked QB in the NFL.  FACT

For clarity - Who's paniies?  

 

People who have had enough with Taylor or the Taylor faithful? 

People that don’t understand why we need to see what we have in Peterman before we draft a QB...it makes little sense to play Tyrod ever again imo...He is gone after this year anyway...Tyrod is a lame duck

Edited November 21, 2017 by JaCrispy

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

He would have avoided the rush like he has all year.  

 

29 sacks in 9 games.   4th most sacked QB in the NFL.  FACT

Literally, any other QB in that spot would have 10 more. Are you really questioning his escapability?!? He’s kept a zillion plays alive. He isn’t good when he drops back 3 steps and releases. When a guy comes free and he can move around he’s dangerous (see the throw to Zay Sunday). The thought that Peterman faced a level of pressure that Taylor hasn’t seen all year is laughable. The next guy is going to see the same without changes to the scheme and personnel. 

[YoloinOhio]

I do not think McD or Beane care what the media and fans scream at them in the short term. They didn’t care when they traded Sammy and they don’t care now. I said it then and i will say it again, they are willing to weather the storm now for what they believe is building their vision. That vision didn’t include Sammy and if doesn’t include Tyrod. They don’t know yet if it will include Peterman. So they are trying to find out. 

 

I am not saying it’s what I would do. I️ hated the trade and i would absolutely go back to TT at this point if I’m them. But it’s what they have shown since they got there. For better or for worse.

Edited November 21, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

People that don’t understand why we need to see what we have in Peterman before we draft a QB

We need to see more of a 5th round pick that has ALWAYS been horrible under pressure, that threw 5 picks in his 1st half (only QB with 5 picks in a half since the merger) to realize what we have in him?!? There is a 0% chance that he is the guy next year (just like there was before the start). Now, if you said “play Peterman to get a higher pick” I’m good. The thought that “we need to see what we have” is absurd. He has A CHANCE to be a backup. He also has a chance to be out of the league. 

 

FWIW, I am okay playing Nate but it isn’t some evaluation as to whether we should draft a guy or not. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[JaCrispy]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We need to see more of a 5th round pick that has ALWAYS been horrible under pressure, that threw 5 picks in his 1st half (only QB with 5 picks in a half since the merger) to realize what we have in him?!? There is a 0% chance that he is the guy next year (just like there was before the start). Now, if you said “play Peterman to get a higher pick” I’m good. The thought that “we need to see what we have” is absurd. He has A CHANCE to be a backup. He also has a chance to be out of the league. 

Kirby, listen to what you’re saying...he is a 22 year old rookie playing his first game...players need time for the game to slow down for them...and plus I would like to see a little more- I don’t think the book is written on this guy just yet.

Edited November 21, 2017 by JaCrispy

[PastaJoe]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

1) Rating under pressure doesn't put Tyrod on the same level as Brady. Everyone in the league is literally 50 points behind him.

2) Weird, he can't put it in their catch radius, but he's 13th in the league for completion % and a mere 9.6% higher than his replacement on the season so far...

 

You can pad completion stats with the short dump offs he makes because he doesn't trust his ability to throw long or in close coverage. Compare his first two throws to Benjamin vs NO that weren't even in bounds, and Peterman's first throw to Benjamin that threaded in through coverage.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Kirby, listen to what you’re saying...he is a 22 year old rookie playing his first game...players need time for the game to slow down for them...and plus I would like to see a little more- I don’t think the book is written on this guy just yet.

Maybe not written but there is 100% chance that they are taking a guy early to be “the guy.” This isn’t about finding out if this guy is the franchise guy. The people that saw the most of him (Blokes and Gunner) said that before the draft. Neither believed he was even worthy of the 5th round spot. He was supposed to be “NFL ready.” That was one of the pros of him coming out. I am fine with him playing and elevating the draft pick but they HAVE to get the guy this year.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I've been saying that all along.  

 

NOT SO PETERMAN-LIKE

Bills QB Nathan Peterman found himself back on the bench after throwing five first-half interceptions against the Chargers on Sunday. He was much better at protecting the ball during his senior season at Pittsburgh, throwing 27 touchdowns and only seven picks in 13 games.

[JaCrispy]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Maybe not written but there is 100% chance that they are taking a guy early to be “the guy.” This isn’t about finding out if this guy is the franchise guy. The people that saw the most of him (Blokes and Gunner) said that before the draft. Neither believed he was even worthy of the 5th round spot. He was supposed to be “NFL ready.” That was one of the pros of him coming out. I am fine with him playing and elevating the draft pick but they HAVE to get the guy this year.

I am fine with drafting a guy as well

[Bill_with_it]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We need to see more of a 5th round pick that has ALWAYS been horrible under pressure, that threw 5 picks in his 1st half (only QB with 5 picks in a half since the merger) to realize what we have in him?!? There is a 0% chance that he is the guy next year (just like there was before the start). Now, if you said “play Peterman to get a higher pick” I’m good. The thought that “we need to see what we have” is absurd. He has A CHANCE to be a backup. He also has a chance to be out of the league. 

 

FWIW, I am okay playing Nate but it isn’t some evaluation as to whether we should draft a guy or not. 

Kirby I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with you. Good nugget if wisdom!

[unclepete]

I suspect Peterman doesnfor some reason. We’re already a joke. This decision might be what defines the McDermott era. We lose out this year. Next year we draft a QB and we struggle because we’ve got a young QB. I could see him getting fired after 2 years. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

58 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

You can pad completion stats with the short dump offs he makes because he doesn't trust his ability to throw long or in close coverage. Compare his first two throws to Benjamin vs NO that weren't even in bounds, and Peterman's first throw to Benjamin that threaded in through coverage.

I wasn't the one who said he can't consistently put it in a receiver's catch radius. Sorry your hyperbolic fiction doesn't align with reality. I'm also curious how Tyrod's first 2 throws to Benjamin weren't even in bounds when the 2nd play of the game was a 9 yard completion to KB on a slant.

Edited November 21, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13

[TheFunPolice]

McDermott is trapped. ONLY chance he comes out of this looking good is if Peterman starts and plays well this week.

 

Choice A: IF he goes back to Tyrod he's mocked and should have never made the call.

Choice B: If he sticks with Peterman and the kid tanks again he's mocked and should have never made the call.

Choice C: He sticks with Peterman and the rookie plays well.

 

Only one scenario has a chance for redemption. That's why I could see him sticking with the rookie.

 

 

[zow2]

I understand that McD won't be pressured into making a decision against his belief.. BUT, if he had any clue as to the "temperature in the room"  he'd go with Tyrod this week.  Taylor has played at Arrowhead, he knows the deal, this should be a close game if the D can show up and play a normal game.  If he rolls out Peterman then his team will be giving him eye-rolls behind his back and his reputation as a head coach will be seriously questioned even more than it has been.

[MiltonWaddams]

4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

McDermott is trapped. ONLY chance he comes out of this looking good is if Peterman starts and plays well this week.

 

Choice A: IF he goes back to Tyrod he's mocked and should have never made the call.

Choice B: If he sticks with Peterman and the kid tanks again he's mocked and should have never made the call.

Choice C: He sticks with Peterman and the rookie plays well.

 

Only one scenario has a chance for redemption. That's why I could see him sticking with the rookie.

 

 

Our terrible truth. When a 5th round QB who just set the NFL record for ints in a half can be easily, and most accurately, described as the correct choice to start. I'd rather see Tyrod as I got the sense that he was the far superior player last week and that isn't going to change quickly. However, Peterman is the better choice for the future of this franchise.

[McBean]

When is next press conference?

[Tatonka68]

Tyrod sucks, check down Charlie, ignores wide receivers, and only throws to Tolbert. Forget it. 

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Our terrible truth. When a 5th round QB who just set the NFL record for ints in a half can be easily, and most accurately, described as the correct choice to start. I'd rather see Tyrod as I got the sense that he was the far superior player last week and that isn't going to change quickly. However, Peterman is the better choice for the future of this franchise.

This is where I am at. The better player and the better option for this team are not necessarily the same.

[Southtown Tommy]

Play the kid and relax - it's one game.  He played under the bright lights in college and will be fine.  Some rookie QBs struggle more than others - he needs the opportunity to play and the expectation is he will improve as the season plays out.

 

The season is toast and TT is not the future.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

People that don’t understand why we need to see what we have in Peterman before we draft a QB...it makes little sense to play Tyrod ever again imo...He is gone after this year anyway...Tyrod is a lame duck

Thanks for the clarification.  

 

Lets answer an unknown to see what we have in him.   At minimum, he could be a bridge QB until the guy they draft in '18 is ready to play.  

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, Paulus said:

I was just joking at Tibs.

Though, it would be fun to point out how we ran Orton out of town.

Benched Tuel after he outplayed EJ.

And, had certain players sabotage Peterman's start. (Especially horrifying)

Players need to be held accountable for playing like poop (looking at the especially poop like lines).

 

 

I thought I'd seen some delusional posting here, but the Cake, it's Yours.

 

We did not run Orton out of town.  We enticed him back from retirement on the promise of "another shot at a playoff and a nice fat paycheck".  It was no surprise that he continued his retirement plans after that season - he was clearly done with the "sacrifice your body to win games" schtick.

 

The player who sabotaged Peterman's start is Peterman.  The Chargers are at the top of the league for QB pressure and sacks.  Bosa and Ingram can run wild against a good line, let alone a craptastic one missing its best player in Glenn.  "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence"

Tuel was the backup, EJ was the hoped-for franchise guy.  Unless the backup plays lights-out, he doesn't keep the gig when the starter can play.

Here's the stat lines, you tell me which one is EJ and which one is Tuel:

8-20 (40%) 80 yds 0 TD 1 INT 2 sk rating 31.2

11-20 (55%) 129 yds 0 TD 0 INT 2 sk rating 74.8

18-39 (46%) 229 yd 1 TD 2 INT 0 sk rating 52.2

22-39 (56%) 155 yd 1 TD 1 INT 3 sk rating 63.5

Gee it's sure clear to me who outplayed whom there (sar chasm <<<<=======). 

The "EJ Manuel worst QB ever" narrative here has long jumped the shark.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Literally, any other QB in that spot would have 10 more. Are you really questioning his escapability?!? He’s kept a zillion plays alive. He isn’t good when he drops back 3 steps and releases. When a guy comes free and he can move around he’s dangerous (see the throw to Zay Sunday). The thought that Peterman faced a level of pressure that Taylor hasn’t seen all year is laughable. The next guy is going to see the same without changes to the scheme and personnel. 

Which supports my premise.  On the 2 INT's that Nate got hit because the pocket collapsed Taylor would have been sacked. 

 

His "escapability" imo is a bogus excuse and I will stand by that always.   He's escaping because he's too damn hesitant to throw the ball!!!    6 more weeks and we can move on from What Would Taylor Do in a game in Buffalo.  Knowing this board he'd be followed wherever he goes too.  

 

When they leave I wish them well and forget about them.  (until they play the Bills should it happen) 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Southtown Tommy said:

Play the kid and relax - it's one game.  He played under the bright lights in college and will be fine.  Some rookie QBs struggle more than others - he needs the opportunity to play and the expectation is he will improve as the season plays out.

 

The season is toast and TT is not the future.  

 

Serious questions:

1) do you believe Peterman is the future, or may be the future?

2) do you believe the bolded words above are true of any college QB drafted by the NFL?

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

The two plays that Nate got hit when he threw, please tell me what would have happened with Taylor in the exact time frame?

 

One was to a Bill that popped it up into the air when it hit his hands in front of his face.  Not on Nate at all.  

 

Mr Sarcasm asks 

Or did he throw the ball to hard with his weak arm?  

Tyrod would have escaped or took a sack. Both are better than what happened. 

 

Can't believe you are making excuses for Ints when Tyrod doesn't get the same benefit of excuses. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

When is next press conference?

He usually does it Wednesday morning 9:30

[26CornerBlitz]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Maybe not written but there is 100% chance that they are taking a guy early to be “the guy.” This isn’t about finding out if this guy is the franchise guy. The people that saw the most of him (Blokes and Gunner) said that before the draft. Neither believed he was even worthy of the 5th round spot. He was supposed to be “NFL ready.” That was one of the pros of him coming out. I am fine with him playing and elevating the draft pick but they HAVE to get the guy this year.

 

For the umpteenth time, they need to spend an early draft pick in the '18 draft irrespective of Peterman's presence.  The notion that they need to play him in order to make that determination does not add up IMO. 

[Kirby Jackson]

17 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Which supports my premise.  On the 2 INT's that Nate got hit because the pocket collapsed Taylor would have been sacked. 

 

His "escapability" imo is a bogus excuse and I will stand by that always.   He's escaping because he's too damn hesitant to throw the ball!!!    6 more weeks and we can move on from What Would Taylor Do in a game in Buffalo.  Knowing this board he'd be followed wherever he goes too.  

 

When they leave I wish them well and forget about them.  (until they play the Bills should it happen) 

 

Escapability is bogus? Okay 

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

For the umpteenth time, they need to spend an early draft pick in the '18 draft irrespective of Peterman's presence.  The notion that they need to play him in order to make that determination does not add up IMO. 

Exactly

[buffaloboyinATL]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Oh man, this place will go even crazier than it already is. 

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Tyrod would have escaped or took a sack. Both are better than what happened. 

 

Can't believe you are making excuses for Ints when Tyrod doesn't get the same benefit of excuses. 

That’s the point. Can you imagine if Tyrod threw 5 INTs in 14 throws last week?!? This place would burn to the ground. If it is about the tank, I am okay with it. If it is about winning, then anyone that thinks Peterman is a better option is an idiot. 

[MiltonWaddams]

What's the over/under for how many days of evaluation McD takes? Will we know tomorrow or Thursday. If it's later, it seems ridiculous 

[CodeMonkey]

 

I have no reason to doubt JW.  But to me, if the Bills start Peterman again this week it is simply because they have realized they are not making the playoffs this season and are in full on evaluation mode to see if they can get by with Peterman on the cheap as the bridge QB for the next year or two.  Doing this in back to back away games with hungry defensive lines was probably a rookie HC mistake.  But it is what it is at this point.  

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This is where I am at. The better player and the better option for this team are not necessarily the same.

Something I read in Tim Graham's piece this morning stuck with me. He was speaking with someone in the league office about the situation, and that source told him that Taylor was a very popular player among other players around the league. Judging from how he interacts with other players from opposing teams after games, the fond feelings for him in Baltimore, Richard Sherman's comments, and his own rep as a gamer among his own teammates, I suspect that this is 100 percent true. 

That gets me to my next point: the current treatment of Taylor -- a far superior player to Peterman -- only makes sense  if the decision-makers have a long time horizon to work with.  Despite what people think here, I am not at all convinced of that. The problem is that Buffalo has become an even bigger laughing stock than before, and this regime will struggle to attract good players all else being equal (i.e., they have other offers) NEXT YEAR. I can't imagine good players will want to come here for not only the obvious reasons, but because of the stink (in the players' minds at least) of the Taylor decision (remember, other players actually like him). Why is that important? Because of the decisions of McDermott and Beane, this team will go into the 2018 offseason as one of the least talented teams in the league. Their talent level after free agency opens will be HORRIBLE--and again, I expect them to struggle in attracting quality FAs. Because of that, 2-14 is a real possibility next season. 
 

Taking a team that collectively went.500 over the previous three seasons to 6-10  (where they'll end up if Peterman starts the rest of the way) to somewhere between 2-14/4-12 is not a good look.  If this happens, all talk of a long term for the new regime will go out the window. The fans will be in an uproar. They may well get a third season, but they'll struggle to advance from a really bad record to a really good one. The Rams did it this year, but they're the exception. Most teams that are bad stay bad for a couple of seasons.  

 

I'd bet a large amount of money if this regime has three straight losing seasons, they will be out. It's the way of this franchise. Completely cratering next season will not be a good look either. Remember, they will walk into FA with one of the lowest levels of talent in the league. The only decent players who won't be over the hill are as follows: Hyde, White, Shady, and Zay Jones (who does look like he can play). I have no idea what'll happen with Benjamin. He has leg issues and will cost a lot to keep. They don't seem to be committed to Glenn either.  Clay is alright, but has knee issues and is basically a JAG at the TE position. Better than some but not great. Poyer is alright too. 

 

None of the other players on the team are difference makers. Given that they really have to trade the farm to move up and get a qb (although they may not), their draft pick total will be average by the time of draft day. I'd expect them to have to trade their 2 #1s plus a #2 and, say, a 3rd next year to move up from the 9-10 spot to the #2 spot. Cleveland will take a qb. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by dave mcbride

[26CornerBlitz]

14 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Oh man, this place will go even crazier than it already is. 

 

It shouldn't surprise anyone if McDermott demonstrates stubbornness by deciding to double down as if his rookie QB is some prized prospect who's a key to the future of the franchise.  Look at how many weeks they ran Tolbert out as the 2nd RB, Ducasse at the RG, and how he insisted the run D would hold up despite evidence to the contrary. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Something I read in Tim Graham's piece this morning stuck with me. He was speaking with someone in the league office about the situation, and that source told him that Taylor was a very popular player among other players around the league. Judging from how he interacts with other players from opposing teams after games, the fond feelings for him in Baltimore, Richard Sherman's comments, and his own rep as a gamer among his own teammates, I suspect that this is 100 percent true. 

That gets me to my next point: the current treatment of Taylor -- a far superior player to Peterman -- only makes sense  if the decision-makers have a long time horizon to work with.  Despite what people think here, I am not at all convinced of that. The problem is that Buffalo has become an even bigger laughing stock than before, and this regime will struggle to attract good players all else being equal (i.e., they have other offers) NEXT YEAR. I can't imagine good players will want to come here for not only the obvious reasons, but because of the stink (in the players' minds at least) of the Taylor decision (remember, other players actually like him). Why is that important? Because of the decisions of McDermott and Beane, this team will go into the 2018 offseason as one of the least talented teams in the league. Their talent level after free agency opens will be HORRIBLE. Because of that, 2-14 is a real possibility next season. 
 

Taking a team that collectively went.500 over the previous three seasons to 6-10  (where they'll end up if Peterman starts the rest of the way) to somewhere between 2-14/4-12 is not a good look.  If this happens, all talk of a long term for the new regime will go out the window. The fans will be in an uproar. They may well get a third season, but they'll struggle to advance from a really bad record to a really good one. The Rams did it this year, but they're the exception. Most teams that are bad stay bad for a couple of seasons.  

 

I'd bet a large amount of money if this regime has three straight losing seasons, they will be out. It's the way of this franchise. Completely cratering next season will not be a good look either. Remember, they will walk into FA with one of the lowest levels of talent in the league. The only decent players who won't be over the hill are as follows: Hyde, White, Shady, and Zay Jones (who does look like he can play). I have no idea what'll happen with Benjamin. He has leg issues and will cost a lot to keep. They don't seem to be committed to Glenn either.  Clay is alright, but has knee issues and is basically a JAG at the TE position. Better than some but not great. Poyer is alright too. 

 

None of the other players on the team are difference makers. Given that they really have to trade the farm to move up and get a qb (although they may not), their draft pick total will be average by the time of draft day. I'd expect them to have to trade their 2 #1s plus a #2 and, say, a 3rd next year to move up from the 9-10 spot to the #2 spot. Cleveland will take a qb. 

I think this post is spot on except for the idea that they'll struggle to attract good FAs. I think if you pay them enough they will go anywhere.

 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It shouldn't surprise anyone if McDermott demonstrates stubbornness by deciding to double down as if his rookie QB is some prized prospect that's a key to the future of the franchise.  Look at how many weeks they ran Tolbert out as the 2nd RB, Ducasse at the RG, and how he insisted the run D would hold up despite evidence to the contrary. 

You are 100% correct. Fans that are surprised must not have been watching the season. So many confounding transactions, lineups and play calls. We have no choice but to follow the process other than quit being fans (but you're reading this so you won't), but trusting the process has gotten downright impossible over the last three weeks.

[buffaloboyinATL]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It shouldn't surprise anyone if McDermott demonstrates stubbornness by deciding to double down as if his rookie QB is some prized prospect who's a key to the future of the franchise.  Look at how many weeks they ran Tolbert out as the 2nd RB, Ducasse at the RG, and how he insisted the run D would hold up despite evidence to the contrary. 

Yeah, I voted that Peterman will start, not necessarily because I think that he gives us a better chance to win, but rather that MCDermott made the decision to start him because of something he saw or hoped to see and I would be surprised if he gave up on that conviction this quickly.