For those calling for FO and coaching change

[BuffaloBill]

The Bills are unlikely to get better quickly with yet another front office and coaching change.  The NFLjust retreads coaches and coaching staffs.  The dismantling of the Bills roster is once again nothing more than a treadmill of change.  There has been a lot of activity and proclamations but no ground gained.

 

Each new regime coming in brings with it a supposedly different approach and philosophy.  High draft picks and high dollar players are dumped and eventually replaced.  The cycle breeds futility.  The best teams in the league identify their QB build around him and maintain some stabilty in GM and coaching.

 

It is way too early to call for yet another change in Buffalo.  The truth of the matter is that the Bills may be lucky enough to sneak into the playoffs in a really bad AFC this year.  If so, they will do so on an aged roster (by NFL standards) that still has a few bloated contracts on it.  The housecleaning will continue.  The first thing the Bills must do is find their QB of the future.  Until then the rest of the roster activity is simply running hard in place.

[Coach Tuesday]

I would like the Pegulas to bring an experienced football executive with a proven track record to oversee the front office and serve as a "sanity check" on short-term and long-term strategic planning and execution.

 

I have been asking for this for YEARS.

[BuffaloBill]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

I would like the Pegulas to bring an experienced football executive with a proven track record to oversee the front office and serve as a "sanity check" on short-term and long-term strategic planning and execution.

 

I have been asking for this for YEARS.

 

 

If the stories are true, McBeane was headed for the GM spot in Carolina so arguably he is qualified.  The real question is whether the plan he an McD have set their path on is valid and will work.  Only time will tell.  We are in a rebuilding process.  One that had lipstick put on it with a set of early season wins.  You can’t expect this much roster change with a middling QB to result in an exceptional season.

[GunnerBill]

I'm not calling for any Front Office or Coaching change (save for canning the proven failure we have coaching the oline which I know will not happen).  

 

They went this path they need to stay the course.  I like McDermott, I don't know much about Beane I am more lukewarm on him so far.  This next offseason will determine their success or failure.  

 

1) Can they find their Quarterback of the future?

2) Can they infuse the lines on both sides with youth, talent and energy?

 

If they can turn their current 8 picks into a QB and 2 or 3 difference makers in the trenches this regime will succeed.  If they can't this regime will fail.  

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I would like the Pegulas to bring an experienced football executive with a proven track record to oversee the front office and serve as a "sanity check" on short-term and long-term strategic planning and execution.

 

I have been asking for this for YEARS.

 

How many "experienced football executives" do you think exist? Much less would make a difference? Much much less willing to come to Buffalo?

 

The front office as currently constructed is just fine and has the potential to do great things. Be patient.

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

If the stories are true, McBeane was headed for the GM spot in Carolina so arguably he is qualified.  The real question is whether the plan he an McD have set their path on is valid and will work.  Only time will tell.  We are in a rebuilding process.  One that had lipstick put on it with a set of early season wins.  You can’t expect this much roster change with a middling QB to result in an exceptional season.

 

It's not about whether he is "qualified" it is about the margin for error.  If you're hiring a first time GM and HC in a billion-dollar industry, why not reduce your risk by having them report to an experienced sage?

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

How many "experienced football executives" do you think exist? Much less would make a difference? Much much less willing to come to Buffalo?

 

The front office as currently constructed is just fine and has the potential to do great things. Be patient.

 

This is when I know a poster has completely run out of actual argument - when I see the "they wouldn't come/re-sign here" line.

[plenzmd1]

Bills and Sabres current regimes will both be in place for at least 3 years IMHO.

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

This is when I know a poster has completely run out of actual argument - when I see the "they wouldn't come/re-sign here" line.

 

 

This is when I know a poster is full of crap - when he doesn't actually address the question.

[Dr. K]

The Pegulas have made their bed and we must all lie in it. As they have with the Sabres.

 

They should have kept Whaley and let him hire is own head coach for once. But that train has left the station and here we are with Opie and the Beane, the smartest guys on the planet. 

[Nervous Guy]

12 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

It's not about whether he is "qualified" it is about the margin for error.  If you're hiring a first time GM and HC in a billion-dollar industry, why not reduce your risk by having them report to an experienced sage?

 

This is when I know a poster has completely run out of actual argument - when I see the "they wouldn't come/re-sign here" line.

yeah...how is it working out for the Rams?

 

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/5/19/15663260/nfl-front-office-power-rankings-la-rams-les-snead

[Nervous Guy]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Pretty good.

 

Those Whaley mistakes are really sucking over there.

yep and for those that bashed the coach and GM, I guess they are eating crow.

[Foreigner]

If this regime could not figure it out after the dreadful Jets game, with this sorry performance, they will be gone,

unfortunately, maybe not until after two or three years of more bad football.  It is rare to find a 31 year old coach

who has led the Rams out of the wilderness, but remember we beat the Rams last year, and look at where the two

teams are now.

[MAJBobby]

The good thing is most sane Bills fans are not calling for Beane or McD to be fired. However those same sane fans absolutely are correct to not fully buy into the new buzzword “of Process”. 

 

And there rightfully should be accountability in terms of discussing the flawed roster they built this year.  

[BuffaloBill]

5 minutes ago, Foreigner said:

If this regime could not figure it out after the dreadful Jets game, with this sorry performance, they will be gone,

unfortunately, maybe not until after two or three years of more bad football.  It is rare to find a 31 year old coach

who has led the Rams out of the wilderness, but remember we beat the Rams last year, and look at where the two

teams are now.

 

 

A part of the Rams story is that they appear to have found their QB.  Have the Bills?  There are plenty of threads around here debating the answer to that question.

[Roundybout]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

A part of the Rams story is that they appear to have found their QB.  Have the Bills?  There are plenty of threads around here debating the answer to that question.

 

that Rams team is completely loaded with talent that they got from years and years of high draft picks. Goff, Austin, Gurley, Quinn, Donald, etc. They just needed a coach to put it together. We have Tyrod. A serviceable starter that has hit the wall. 

[MAJBobby]

Although I do want a Modern NFL Offense not one built to play in 70s because they may have a bad weather game in Buffalo sometime 

3 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

that Rams team is completely loaded with talent that they got from years and years of high draft picks. Goff, Austin, Gurley, Quinn, Donald, etc. They just needed a coach to put it together. We have Tyrod. A serviceable starter that has hit the wall. 

 

And where is out young core of talented players from all out high picks???  Ooo thats right traded away or let walk just to draft in the SAME position 

[Greybeard]

35 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I would like the Pegulas to bring an experienced football executive with a proven track record to oversee the front office and serve as a "sanity check" on short-term and long-term strategic planning and execution.

 

I have been asking for this for YEARS.

    This does not guarantee success.  Wilson tried with Donnahoe.   The Chargers tried with Beathard, and the list goes on and on.  The two mentioned were to the the smartest (supposedly}, at the time.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

In all honesty.  I'd go for a change at QB well before I fired the coach or GM. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

A part of the Rams story is that they appear to have found their QB.  Have the Bills?  There are plenty of threads around here debating the answer to that question.

Amen brother!!! 

[BuffaloBill]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The coach and GM and responsible for this ****ty roster. Not Tyrod Taylor. 

 

 

How can you say Tyrod’s shortcomings have not played into the building of this roster?  A run first offense that has to depend on a nearly perfect defensive game to win..... that has had no influence on the roster?  Do you think Brady’s presence in Cheatland has had any influence over the fact that the rest of their roster is not exactly loaded with HOF material and yet they continue to win?

 

The Tyrod apologists around here are really tiring.

[Roundybout]

18 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

And where is out young core of talented players from all out high picks???  Ooo thats right traded away or let walk just to draft in the SAME position 

 

Touche, though we have never had consecutive top-ten draft picks. They've also had multiple first round picks. Sound familiar? 

Edited November 13, 2017 by BillsEnthusiast

[ALF]

I would give McD and Beane the full 5 years if they replaced Castillo. What he did to the OL is a disaster.

 

Changing schemes and players to fit it every 2 years does not work.  I would not play Peterman until this OL is back to last season's level of play. 

 

No way Taylor is as bad as the Saint's game.

[Woodman19]

Thrilled so far with this GM and Coach duo.  McDermott is doing a good job with the young players and Beane is making moves for the future which indicates he's looking towards to longer term future rather than just patching things together now.  I'm sure you will all feel better when the bounty of picks are contributing on next year's roster and we have the cap space available to lock in those players.

[Heavy Kevi]

I agree wholeheartedly with OP. These guys are just as promising as anyone else we have had in quite awhile. The talent just isn't there. "The process" doesn't happen overnight, and I do believe that will have 3+ years no matter the outcome. Bills owe it to themseoves and the fans to follow through with a plan and give it a real chance.

 

Now I could see a coordinator shakeup or something after the year is out, but I highly doubt we will see a coach or staffer scapegoated, simply because I don't think anyone is feeling the heat yet. Rex knew he had to win right away with all his bluster, but I get the feeling these guys will be given the lattitude to figure it out (or at least try) without Terry and Kim breathing down their neck.

[BuffaloBill]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I'm not apologizing for anything Tyrod did yesterday. 

 

He sucked. That has nothing to do with THE REST of McBeanes roster and personnel decisions.

 

Are you really comparing Tyrod to the GOAT in Tom Brady? 

Simple question.

 

Whats the difference between us and Jacksonville?

 

 

Probably not a ton of difference between Buffalo and Jax.  That is unless you believe Jax believes Bortles is their franchise QB.  What I keep saying across multiple threads is that any NFL team is likely topped out at mediocre until they get a true leading, maybe a franchise QB.

 

And no, I was not comparing Tyrod to Brady.  My point was that because the Cheats do have Brady they have exceptional flexibility with their roster outside of him.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

47 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The coach and GM and responsible for this ****ty roster. Not Tyrod Taylor. 

While your first sentence is correct.  the fault in the passing game was on Tentative Taylor.  

 

His passes to KB were way off target, he continues to hold the ball too long, ant that hesitation leads the defenders to close the gap on the guys that are open. 

 

Make him a QB.  How many more times do we need to hear the entire league say the same thing over and over and over? 

 

30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I'm not apologizing for anything Tyrod did yesterday. 

 

He sucked. That has nothing to do with THE REST of McBeanes roster and personnel decisions.

 

Are you really comparing Tyrod to the GOAT in Tom Brady? 

Simple question.

 

Whats the difference between us and Jacksonville?

A QB that can pass?   Sorry Scott.   The QB runs the offense.  He needs to be able to read the field presnap and make adjustments. How often do we see this, other than checking down? 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

Its gonna take three drafts with one of those picks being a starting qb to turn this mess around and build a real contender. Talking about firing them is absolutely ridiculous when many where predicting a 4 win season. I still trust the process. Its gonna take a while longer. Not happy about that but it is what it is.

[Dr. K]

I have zero confidence that in 3+ years under these geniuses, who are extremely rigid in their thinking and wedded to their systems rather than fitting their schemes and play calling to the talent they have--witness the fire sale they have made of all the young players on this team--that this team will be other than a 7-9 win team, max.

 

But at this point there's nothing to be done for it but to stay the course, I guess. I suppose they could lose out this season (don't laugh--it's quite possible) but even then I suspect the Pegulas will keep them on, trust "The PROCESS" (key heavenly chorus), let them have their miracle draft and free agency binge to get their kind of players. 

 

And if they suck next year, they'll get another year to show how smart they are. But if they don't show improvement in 2018-19, and have a winning season in 2019-20, they are out the door. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Dr. K

[aceman_16]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

The good thing is most sane Bills fans are not calling for Beane or McD to be fired. However those same sane fans absolutely are correct to not fully buy into the new buzzword “of Process”. 

 

And there rightfully should be accountability in terms of discussing the flawed roster they built this year.  

^this. It is extremely hard to rebuild. We have not had a top flight qb in forever. Anyone who points to good well-run front offices will inherently have a good to elite QB to build around.

[White Linen]

41 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I'm not apologizing for anything Tyrod did yesterday. 

 

He sucked. That has nothing to do with THE REST of McBeanes roster and personnel decisions.

 

Are you really comparing Tyrod to the GOAT in Tom Brady? 

Simple question.

 

Whats the difference between us and Jacksonville?

 

The difference is they have a better defense and run the ball way better.  The similarities are neither can be perennial winners with their current QB's.  

 

Oh and by the way, stop pretending not to understand what BuffaloBill is saying.  

[May Day 10]

I think they are on the right path.  They just need the athletes.  There is no depth on this team.  They were able to cobble together some game-planning and inspiration to get some victories out of the gate.... but the film is out.  

 

I think I still view Beane and McDermott favorably.  McDermott, I feel is a very good balance between a 'players' coach' and a guy who demands professionalism.   I also like the ripping off of the band-aid moves they have made. It stinks selling Dareus and Watkins for pennies on the dollar for what they cost... but there was little choice IMO.  These are the type of moves the Bills would shy away from throughout the drought.  

 

The one thing that troubles me... and has been troubling me all season.... is how in the heck can they have Tolbert as RB#2?  He shouldn't be in the NFL, at least as a ball carrier.  

Edited November 13, 2017 by May Day 10

[Billzgobowlin]

There certainly isn't enough to fire these two at all.  Beane hasn't even been here for a draft.  It is a process that needs to be finished, let's just hope it's another show me baby thing with this process.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I would like the Pegulas to bring an experienced football executive with a proven track record to oversee the front office and serve as a "sanity check" on short-term and long-term strategic planning and execution.

 

I have been asking for this for YEARS.

 

Until Russ Brandon and his FO proteges are gone from OBD, what we've seen the last decade is what we're going to continue to see on the field.   That's who has been running the team since Donahoe was fired back in 2005, and the quality of management speaks for itself. 

[Dr. K]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Until Russ Brandon and his FO proteges are gone from OBD, what we've seen the last decade is what we're going to continue to see on the field.   That's who has been running the team since Donahoe was fired back in 2005, and the quality of management speaks for itself. 

This practice of blaming the Bills' continued ineptitude on Russ Brandon is idiotic. Brandon does not hire the coaches. He does not assemble the roster. He does not set the schemes or prepare the game plan or do the game day coaching. 

 

Sure, fire Russ Brandon. It will make absolutely no difference except to marketing. 

 

[teef]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Until Russ Brandon and his FO proteges are gone from OBD, what we've seen the last decade is what we're going to continue to see on the field.   That's who has been running the team since Donahoe was fired back in 2005, and the quality of management speaks for itself. 

really playing the russ brandon angle still?  good lord man, get a new schtick.  

[xsoldier54]

Who in the world is calling for FO or a coaching change after 9 games?  Anyone who is must be either insane or just plain stupid.

Edited November 13, 2017 by xsoldier54

[PolishDave]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm not calling for any Front Office or Coaching change (save for canning the proven failure we have coaching the oline which I know will not happen).  

 

They went this path they need to stay the course.  I like McDermott, I don't know much about Beane I am more lukewarm on him so far.  This next offseason will determine their success or failure.  

 

1) Can they find their Quarterback of the future?

2) Can they infuse the lines on both sides with youth, talent and energy?

 

If they can turn their current 8 picks into a QB and 2 or 3 difference makers in the trenches this regime will succeed.  If they can't this regime will fail.  

 

Do you honestly think it is remotely reasonable to expect them to hit on a QB and 2 or 3 difference makers in one draft?

 

Not happening unless they are the best talent evaluators the Bills have ever had.    And based on their moves so far, they certainly aren't.

 

They are going to get a QB (hopefully a great one) and maybe one other guy who ends up being a starter long term.   Getting 2 or 3 difference makers besides a QB?  No friggin way that happens.  In my opinion.

Edited November 13, 2017 by PolishDave

[BigBuff423]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Bills are unlikely to get better quickly with yet another front office and coaching change.  The NFLjust retreads coaches and coaching staffs.  The dismantling of the Bills roster is once again nothing more than a treadmill of change.  There has been a lot of activity and proclamations but no ground gained.

 

Each new regime coming in brings with it a supposedly different approach and philosophy.  High draft picks and high dollar players are dumped and eventually replaced.  The cycle breeds futility.  The best teams in the league identify their QB build around him and maintain some stabilty in GM and coaching.

 

It is way too early to call for yet another change in Buffalo.  The truth of the matter is that the Bills may be lucky enough to sneak into the playoffs in a really bad AFC this year.  If so, they will do so on an aged roster (by NFL standards) that still has a few bloated contracts on it.  The housecleaning will continue.  The first thing the Bills must do is find their QB of the future.  Until then the rest of the roster activity is simply running hard in place.

 

Completely agree. I am disappointed and frustrated by the outcome of the last two games, and by....ok, I promise not to go down that road (wooooo-saaaa)....but I digress. We, as fans and supporters of the team, NEED and MUST give this new HC and FO time to put their mark and make all the changes they think are necessary. It won't happen in 1 year, even though it was great to ride that train for a month. Beane wasn't even HERE until AFTER the FA and Draft and made improvements through Matthews and Gaines and getting Sammy (me first) out of the locker room and getting more Draft capital to use to re-build the team. 

 

I did like Robert Woods a lot, even before his new found success, but I also understood or believed they wouldn't be winning much this year and that it was a "reboot" or rebuild year and he deserved to be with a true NFL QB and a team on the rise after spending some of his good years here with this mess....

 

I like the way things are trending and I still believe McD and Beane and their staff are heading in the right direction, we just need to be patient (to an extent) and see how they build the roster next off-season and then perform on the field.

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, Shotgunner said:

I agree wholeheartedly with OP. These guys are just as promising as anyone else we have had in quite awhile. The talent just isn't there. "The process" doesn't happen overnight, and I do believe that will have 3+ years no matter the outcome. Bills owe it to themseoves and the fans to follow through with a plan and give it a real chance.

 

Now I could see a coordinator shakeup or something after the year is out, but I highly doubt we will see a coach or staffer scapegoated, simply because I don't think anyone is feeling the heat yet. Rex knew he had to win right away with all his bluster, but I get the feeling these guys will be given the lattitude to figure it out (or at least try) without Terry and Kim breathing down their neck.

The problem is, fans overreact so quickly and can put pressure on Pegula to make a move.  All the moves they've made have clearly been for the future and some fans blame them for "the roster they built" for this year when they clearly inherited most of it and just need time to replace the bridge players and the players that don't fit.  Just hoping the impatient fans don't run this group out of Buffalo

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Do you honestly think it is remotely reasonable to expect them to hit on a QB and 20 or 3 difference makers in one draft?

 

Not happening unless they are the best talent evaluators the Bills have ever had.    And based on their moves so far, they certainly aren't.

 

They are going to get a QB (hopefully a great one) and maybe one other guy who ends up being a starter long term.   Getting 2 or 3 difference makers besides a QB?  No friggin way that happens.  In my opinion.

 

I'm setting my sights high.  If they only get 2 very good players out of those 5 very good picks I'll be a little miffed I won't lie.  I don't expect them to hit on all 5.  But this team needs rebuilding on both lines as well as a Quarterback.  They gotta make a start on that in April.  

[BigBuff423]

4 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Do you honestly think it is remotely reasonable to expect them to hit on a QB and 20 or 3 difference makers in one draft?

 

Not happening unless they are the best talent evaluators the Bills have ever had.    And based on their moves so far, they certainly aren't.

 

They are going to get a QB (hopefully a great one) and maybe one other guy who ends up being a starter long term.   Getting 2 or 3 difference makers besides a QB?  No friggin way that happens.  In my opinion.

 

One more reason why I'd like to see Peterman start, so they can truly evaluate what is or isn't there in a QB that has shown signs of promise before spending a 1st or two 1sts or a 2nd on a QB when they absolutely NEED O-line and D-line help, and LBers, and two Corners and a great RB to send Shady off into the sunset...there's FA too, and while Doug was terrible at the Draft for the most part, he did do well with getting pro personnel in here to really help out. Let's see them do that, and they did get a good player in Gaines, but he's been injured and his difference has been seen in his absence, and Matthews is a good WR but you need a decent QB to throw to him, and so depth and key positions are big reasons to watch the 2018 off-season as to how they'll attack those concerns.