Yards Per Pass Twitter - Early All 22 footage

[bobobonators]

 

I know - its not like any of the other qbs in the league can get the ball out quickly when facing pressure

How many QB's get the ball out in 1.5 seconds? sorry hes not Tom Brady. We know that.

 

Furthermore to be that confident to get the ball out in 1.5 seconds requires reps with your WR. Something TT doesnt have. It requires chemsitry as an offense. Something we dont have yet.

[Crusher]

Have you ever tried, say, going through Cam's film and looking for the same things? I always wonder how many "open receivers" get missed by other QBs. I had never seen this type of analysis about anyone in the NFL until Tyrod Taylor came to town. Other team forums post All-22s but I never see fans outside of Buffalo trying to find open receivers the QB missed. There are people criticizing our best play of the game, a strike over the middle to Jordan Matthews, because on the right-most side of the field Kaelin Clay is running a vertical route and appears to come open in 1-on-1 coverage. I think you are smart enough to know the vertical route was the last progression and Tyrod was never going there once he saw Matthews had a window. But the average fan doesn't know that.

****NEWSFLASH****

 

You are the average fan

[K-9]

If they are going to insist on trying to make him a pocket passer who must throw into traffic - then start Peterman. Tyrod isn't and probably never will be that guy.

 

And then deal with the consequences of that decision many of which will probably be extremely negative.

 

If they want to actually win football games this year, you adjust the play calling to try more plays that allow the starters to shine by using their superior talents. As I suggested above.

I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now.

 

The idea behind a passing game from the pocket is to utilize the entire field and force a defense to defend more area. The play designs I describe above actually make it easier on a defense in that regard. Once in a while, sure, we can catch a D unaware. But over the course of an entire game? No chance. Especially when playing from behind.

Edited September 19, 2017 by K-9

[PolishDave]

 

But we don't know what the full extent of the play calls were. We only see the plays that Tyrod ran and where he threw the ball.

 

My review of his passes showed a bi-polar tendency - he either went with his first read or he bailed on the play completely when it broke down. Unless someone can correct me on the plays, but I did not see him throwing to a second read. (I'm not counting dump off passes after 3 seconds as second reads)

 

So if you are the OC and are dealing with a QB who's clearly struggling to pick up your offense, what kind of plays do you call - keep the routes short and safe to build up his confidence or dial up the aggressiveness to move the ball? That's a dilemma they're going through right now. But having said that, there were many, many options for long gains where Tyrod never pulled the trigger.

 

Tyrod doesn't like to throw into traffic - That is why people say he won't throw unless a player is college open. They are wrong about that, but he does not like to pull the trigger when the receiver is closer to traffic, especially between two defenders.

 

I don't think you can fix that. (my opinion) That is his style. He will throw to guys who are one on one. He will give a covered receiver a chance to make a play. But he is very, very hesitant when that guy is in traffic. That is why you see him throwing more of those types of passes outside. It is a safer pass. He is the safest passer the Bills have had in somewhere around forever.

 

So, if you want him (and the Bills as a team) to succeed this year or any year he is QB, I would put him in situations where he gets to hold the ball longer and receivers spread the field out more and more forcing separation. Tyrod has shown the ability again and again and again to be able to escape pressure after a few seconds - thereby extending the play to about 5 seconds or so - which completely screws corners and safeties trying to maintain coverage. And he has the arm and accuracy to deliver those deep balls to whoever the receiver happens to be.

 

I would have him in shotgun a lot and have the receivers always spreading the defense out instead of crossing more often. He is so talented in those situations (in my opinion) that he could and would routinely destroy defenses in the passing game doing that.

 

But you have to design it to be that way. Call those plays.

 

Don't make him stand in a tight pocket for more than 3 seconds. He isn't comfortable doing that. It is a weakness. He will bail. Don't expect him to throw into traffic regularly. He isn't comfortable doing that. It is a weakness.

 

Do what he is best at.

 

Run zone reads.

 

Run more bootlegs.

 

On designed passing plays - always spread the field instead of bunching it. Put the receivers in positions where Tyrod will throw them the ball without hesitation and you have a chance to make a big play.

 

Exploit defenses with his running ability and his ability to throw beautiful deep passes 4-5 seconds after the snap. That is where most of Buffalo's big pass plays have come from in recent years.

 

If defenses start blitzing him - start utilizing McCoy in the screen game more or let Tyrod beat them with his legs.

[Rochesterfan]

That is becoming more and more evident.

 

The more plays I re-watch of this team, the more convinced I am becoming of the fact that Dennison is an inferior coordinator who thinks it is more important to run his system (Hell be damned) rather than adjust to what his players can execute well. Not 100% convinced yet, but it is trending that way. It's still only game 2. Let's see if/how he adjusts.

 

I think some of this is right - Dennison is in this for the long haul not just what can we do this year.

 

If they felt TT was the long term answer - then you design an offense around him. If the plan is to build an offense and you plan on drafting a QB - then you design the offense and see what TT can do in it.

[PolishDave]

I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now.

 

 

History suggests you are dead wrong.

 

He has excelled in those areas the last two years. Why is this year going to be so different?

[QB Bills]

 

Tyrod doesn't like to throw into traffic - That is why people say he won't throw unless a player is college open. They are wrong about that, but he does not like to pull the trigger when the receiver is closer to traffic, especially between two defenders.

 

I don't think you can fix that. (my opinion) That is his style. He will throw to guys who are one on one. He will give a covered receiver a chance to make a play. But he is very, very hesitant when that guy is in traffic. That is why you see him throwing more of those types of passes outside. It is a safer pass. He is the safest passer the Bills have had in somewhere around forever.

 

So, if you want him (and the Bills as a team) to succeed this year or any year he is QB, I would put him in situations where he gets to hold the ball longer and receivers spread the field out more and more forcing separation. Tyrod has shown the ability again and again and again to be able to escape pressure after a few seconds - thereby extending the play to about 5 seconds or so - which completely screws corners and safeties trying to maintain coverage. And he has the arm and accuracy to deliver those deep balls to whoever the receiver happens to be.

 

I would have him in shotgun a lot and have the receivers always spreading the defense out instead of crossing more often. He is so talented in those situations (in my opinion) that he could and would routinely destroy defenses in the passing game doing that.

 

But you have to design it to be that way. Call those plays.

 

Don't make him stand in a tight pocket for more than 3 seconds. He isn't comfortable doing that. It is a weakness. He will bail. Don't expect him to throw into traffic regularly. He isn't comfortable doing that. It is a weakness.

 

Do what he is best at.

 

Run zone reads.

 

Run more bootlegs.

 

On designed passing plays - always spread the field instead of bunching it. Put the receivers in positions where Tyrod will throw them the ball without hesitation and you have a chance to make a big play.

 

Exploit defenses with his running ability and his ability to throw beautiful deep passes 4-5 seconds after the snap. That is where most of Buffalo's big pass plays have come from in recent years.

 

If defenses start blitzing him - start utilizing McCoy in the screen game more or let Tyrod beat them with his legs.

Just perfect.

 

I wish we could print this post out, wrap it around a rock and throw it through Dennison's office window.

[GoBills808]

I think some of this is right - Dennison is in this for the long haul not just what can we do this year.

 

If they felt TT was the long term answer - then you design an offense around him. If the plan is to build an offense and you plan on drafting a QB - then you design the offense and see what TT can do in it.

I think it's unrealistic to expect an OC to design a system around a guy like Taylor if he's thinking long-term.

[grb]

How many QB's get the ball out in 1.5 seconds? sorry hes not Tom Brady. We know that.

 

Furthermore to be that confident to get the ball out in 1.5 seconds requires reps with your WR. Something TT doesnt have. It requires chemsitry as an offense. Something we dont have yet.

 

No quarterback regularly gets the ball out in 1.5 seconds. The lowest averages tend to fall around 2.25, though Carr right now is 2.07. The next quickest is Siemian at 2.27. The slowest is Kizer at 3.03, meaning everyone in the league is bunched into a one second interval. Taylor, of course, had the highest number last year at somewhere around 3.3, though the bottom ranks are typically filled with extremely mobile quarterbacks, suggesting scrambling skews the numbers. Right now Brady is at 2.69 and Taylor is at 2.86.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

[bobobonators]

 

Tyrod doesn't like to throw into traffic - That is why people say he won't throw unless a player is college open. They are wrong about that, but he does not like to pull the trigger when the receiver is closer to traffic, especially between two defenders.

 

I don't think you can fix that. (my opinion) That is his style. He will throw to guys who are one on one. He will give a covered receiver a chance to make a play. But he is very, very hesitant when that guy is in traffic. That is why you see him throwing more of those types of passes outside. It is a safer pass. He is the safest passer the Bills have had in somewhere around forever.

 

So, if you want him (and the Bills as a team) to succeed this year or any year he is QB, I would put him in situations where he gets to hold the ball longer and receivers spread the field out more and more forcing separation. Tyrod has shown the ability again and again and again to be able to escape pressure after a few seconds - thereby extending the play to about 5 seconds or so - which completely screws corners and safeties trying to maintain coverage. And he has the arm and accuracy to deliver those deep balls to whoever the receiver happens to be.

 

I would have him in shotgun a lot and have the receivers always spreading the defense out instead of crossing more often. He is so talented in those situations (in my opinion) that he could and would routinely destroy defenses in the passing game doing that.

 

But you have to design it to be that way. Call those plays.

 

Don't make him stand in a tight pocket for more than 3 seconds. He isn't comfortable doing that. It is a weakness. He will bail. Don't expect him to throw into traffic regularly. He isn't comfortable doing that. It is a weakness.

 

Do what he is best at.

 

Run zone reads.

 

Run more bootlegs.

 

On designed passing plays - always spread the field instead of bunching it. Put the receivers in positions where Tyrod will throw them the ball without hesitation and you have a chance to make a big play.

 

Exploit defenses with his running ability and his ability to throw beautiful deep passes 4-5 seconds after the snap. That is where most of Buffalo's big pass plays have come from in recent years.

 

If defenses start blitzing him - start utilizing McCoy in the screen game more or let Tyrod beat them with his legs.

Perfectly stated.

 

No quarterback regularly gets the ball out in 1.5 seconds. The lowest averages tend to fall around 2.25, though Carr right now is 2.07. The next quickest is Siemian at 2.27. The slowest is Kizer at 3.03, meaning everyone in the league is bunched into a one second interval. Taylor, of course, had the highest number last year at somewhere around 3.3, though the bottom ranks are typically filled with extremely mobile quarterbacks, suggesting scrambling skews the numbers. Right now Brady is at 2.69 and Taylor is at 2.86.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

Thank you. That one post i referenced 1.5 seconds specifically referenced one play of the Carolina game where posters stated "typical tyrod". From the time Tyrod took his first step back, to the time Tyrod got tackled by the Carolina defender, approximately 1.5 seconds went by.

The 1.5 seconds wasnt meant to reflect his avg time to throw on all passes. Just that one play.

 

Though im sure if people cared, they could easily use the All22 and figure out how muuch time Tyrod had in the pocket in the Panthers game before he got sacked or rushed. Id say average of probably 2 seconds last week

[Perk71]

22. Bills (1-1; No. 20): Sean McDermott will keep telling us Tyrod Taylor is the quarterback until the precise moment McDermott decides Taylor isn’t.

[K-9]

History suggests you are dead wrong.

 

He has excelled in those areas the last two years. Why is this year going to be so different?

History suggests I'm wrong about why a QB needs to operate from the pocket to be successful?

 

Look, it's basic geometry and people who understand the geometrics of a football field have long understood that and why passing from the pocket affords the most opportunity.

 

But hey, if you want to deliberately limit your space options by having your QB roll out every time he attempts a pass, more power to you. Good luck with that.

[Rochesterfan]

I think it's unrealistic to expect an OC to design a system around a guy like Taylor if he's thinking long-term.

 

Not only is it unrealistic, but it requires very different players for a TT designed offense versus a WCO.

 

If the team is looking long term (and I think they are) then you bring in WCO style WRs - guys like Zay and Jordan and you utilize RBs and FBs and TEs that can run patterns to the flat and the seam.

 

If you think TT is your QB - you want taller, faster WRs so you can throw the go routes and deep routes.

 

The Bills allowed the taller, faster receivers to leave and brought in specific WCO WRs - I think they are looking long term and are asking TT to do his best in what is not an ideal system.

[MAJBobby]

This is all about 2018. There is a pretty big financial decision come January on TT. Are you advocating going into that decision with a very specific designed offense for TT in order to squeeze a couple more wins.

 

Or do you implement your offense and see if the QB that is on our roster and have a big decision to make in January can execute it?

 

You may not like it. May not agree with it. But that is the reality the minute TT rebooted his prove it deal

Edited September 19, 2017 by MAJBobby

[PolishDave]

History suggests I'm wrong about why a QB needs to operate from the pocket to be successful?

 

Look, it's basic geometry and people who understand the geometrics of a football field have long understood that and why passing from the pocket affords the most opportunity.

 

But hey, if you want to deliberately limit your space options by having your QB roll out every time he attempts a pass, more power to you. Good luck with that.

 

You are wrong about Tyrod not being good at bootlegs, read options and deep balls. That is what you said. I bolded it so you would know what I was talking about.

 

I would prefer a great pocket passing QB too. Most people would. We don't have one unless the rookie proves to be (unexpectedly) in his first year. So why complain about a non-pocket passing QB (Tyrod) not playing well as a pocket passer? Silly no?

 

Do what he does. - Well, if you want to become dominant. If you want to lose - keep trying to force Tyrod to be a pocket passer.

[GoBills808]

Not only is it unrealistic, but it requires very different players for a TT designed offense versus a WCO.

 

If the team is looking long term (and I think they are) then you bring in WCO style WRs - guys like Zay and Jordan and you utilize RBs and FBs and TEs that can run patterns to the flat and the seam.

 

If you think TT is your QB - you want taller, faster WRs so you can throw the go routes and deep routes.

 

The Bills allowed the taller, faster receivers to leave and brought in specific WCO WRs - I think they are looking long term and are asking TT to do his best in what is not an ideal system.

Exactly. We're on to OC#3 in the Tyrod Taylor era, except this one has the blessing from ownership re: job security (at least it appears that way), and boom...all of a sudden it looks like they're actually trying to implement an NFL level offense rather than catering to the limitations of the QB position ala Roman (who did it fantastically for my money), just without the right guy throwing the ball. It's what you do when you aren't afraid of taking time to get something right IMO. Fans want to see a functioning offense, of course, but I think you have to sacrifice some short term pain for what I believe will prove to be a much more sustainable offensive scheme down the road.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

This is all about 2018. There is a pretty big financial decision come January on TT. Are you advocating going into that decision with a very specific designed offense for TT in order to squeeze a couple more wins.

 

Or do you implement your offense and see if the QB that is on our roster and have a big decision to make in January can execute it?

 

10 mil in cap savings... old roster filled with holes... uhmmmmm yes please!

 

UFAs - Kwilliams, matthews, wright, humber, preston brown, ej gaines, leonard johnson. The biggest holes there are at WR and DT. but 10 mil is enough to re-sign most of those guys and hopefully build some additional depth. We drafted vallejo and milano too so they could deem humber expendable. Never know.

[K-9]

You are wrong about Tyrod not being good at bootlegs, read options and deep balls. That is what you said. I bolded it so you would know what I was talking about.

 

I would prefer a great pocket passing QB too. Most people would. We don't have one unless the rookie proves to be (unexpectedly) in his first year. So why complain about a non-pocket passing QB (Tyrod) not playing well as a pocket passer? Silly no?

 

Do what he does. - Well, if you want to become dominant. If you want to lose - keep trying to force Tyrod to be a pocket passer.

 

I didn't say TT was not good at bootlegs, etc. so I'd be interested in the bolded part of my post where you claim I did.

 

My point here is that you can't make space limiting plays the foundation of your passing game. Once in a while during the course of a game, sure. Like I already pointed out. More than that? No way.

 

Think geometry.

[GoBills808]

 

You are wrong about Tyrod not being good at bootlegs, read options and deep balls. That is what you said. I bolded it so you would know what I was talking about.

 

I would prefer a great pocket passing QB too. Most people would. We don't have one unless the rookie proves to be (unexpectedly) in his first year. So why complain about a non-pocket passing QB (Tyrod) not playing well as a pocket passer? Silly no?

 

Do what he does. - Well, if you want to become dominant. If you want to lose - keep trying to force Tyrod to be a pocket passer.

I do not believe the Bills can be a dominant offense running an offense predicated on bootlegs and zone read.

[K-9]

I do not believe the Bills can be a dominant offense running an offense predicated on bootlegs and zone read.

 

No QB can.

[Scott7975]

This is all about 2018. There is a pretty big financial decision come January on TT. Are you advocating going into that decision with a very specific designed offense for TT in order to squeeze a couple more wins.

 

Or do you implement your offense and see if the QB that is on our roster and have a big decision to make in January can execute it?

 

You may not like it. May not agree with it. But that is the reality the minute TT rebooted his prove it deal

Everyone should know this. I just wish people would stop whining and moaning about Taylor, the offense, the Bills.

 

This season is what it is and you said it earlier. Transition. New QB next year. Stop being mad about today and hope this staff does things right for the future.

[PolishDave]

I do not believe the Bills can be a dominant offense running an offense predicated on bootlegs and zone read.

 

Part of the formula bro. Not the only ingredients. Biggest plays come on the deep passing.

 

Zone reads were a key component of the best running offense the Bills have ever had. Tyrod scored touchdowns running them.

 

I didn't say TT was not good at bootlegs, etc. so I'd be interested in the bolded part of my post where you claim I did.

 

 

Go look dude. You used the letters TT. Did that not stand for Tyrod Taylor? Your exact words.

[TheFunPolice]

Arguing about whether a bad QB is just bad because of the OL, the WR it the water...

 

I've been saying to pass more but maybe the coaches see this same stuff and don't think Tyrod can play QB so they try to limit his impact on the game

[K-9]

Go look dude. You used the letters TT. Did that not stand for Tyrod Taylor? Your exact words.

You can't bold the text where I said TT was not good at bootlegs because I never said that. Not even close. If you can't be honest here, don't waste my time.

 

For the last time, I only pointed out you can't design a passing game around the kind of space limiting plays you advocate. At BEST those plays are only effective at certain times in a game, depending on the situation. Otherwise you make it too easy for a defense that only has to defend a half or a third of the space, especially an NFL defense.

 

I won't even bother going into the injury risk you expose your QB to along the way.

[GoBills808]

 

Part of the formula bro. Not the only ingredients. Biggest plays come on the deep passing.

 

Zone reads were a key component of the best running offense the Bills have ever had. Tyrod scored touchdowns running them.

 

I think the point is that it's not a sustainable system. Defenses catch on, especially when it's being run by a poor passing QB. Chud brought zone read into the NFL in 2011 with Newton and the Panthers and it worked because it was a college concept that Newton could run effectively, being a decent passer and an excellent runner. Carrol in Seattle adapted it for a couple of seasons with Lynch and Wilson, obviously, although theirs was also a much simpler version with the check to Lynch being the effective call the majority of the time. A lot of other teams tried to implement some version of the zone read into their system (Kaepernick's glory years with the 49ers is maybe the best example, as he ran one of the most creative read options offenses in college with Chris Ault) to varying degrees of success between 2011 and 2014.

 

The problem is, professional defensive coordinators aren't college-level guys, they're pros. So after a season or two they start drafting hybrid DEs and safeties, rangier LBs, working out gap exchange/scrape techniques...NFL defenses figured it out. It's no coincidence Newton has steadily evolved into a pocket passer, and that the Carolina offense has moved away from a lot of the concepts they ran with him as a rookie. Kaepernick is out of the league, and Wilson's offense is hard to watch a lot of the time. Point being, these college concepts will migrate into the NFL from time to time, and occasionally proliferate as with zone read (or Wildcat for a season or two), but the surest successful offense in professional football will continue to be the one built around a fundamentally sound pocket passer. It confers advantages in the forward passing game that defenses will never be able to account for. That's why it's the gold standard, and why traditional quarterbacks will remain in high demand for the foreseeable future.

[PolishDave]

You can't bold the text where I said TT was not good at bootlegs because I never said that. Not even close. If you can't be honest here, don't waste my time.

 

For the last time, I only pointed out you can't design a passing game around the kind of space limiting plays you advocate. At BEST those plays are only effective at certain times in a game, depending on the situation. Otherwise you make it too easy for a defense that only has to defend a half or a third of the space, especially an NFL defense.

 

I won't even bother going into the injury risk you expose your QB to along the way.

 

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

I think the point is that it's not a sustainable system. Defenses catch on, especially when it's being run by a poor passing QB. Chud brought zone read into the NFL in 2011 with Newton and the Panthers and it worked because it was a college concept that Newton could run effectively, being a decent passer and an excellent runner. Carrol in Seattle adapted it for a couple of seasons with Lynch and Wilson, obviously, although theirs was also a much simpler version with the check to Lynch being the effective call the majority of the time. A lot of other teams tried to implement some version of the zone read into their system (Kaepernick's glory years with the 49ers is maybe the best example, as he ran one of the most creative read options offenses in college with Chris Ault) to varying degrees of success between 2011 and 2014.

 

The problem is, professional defensive coordinators aren't college-level guys, they're pros. So after a season or two they start drafting hybrid DEs and safeties, rangier LBs, working out gap exchange/scrape techniques...NFL defenses figured it out. It's no coincidence Newton has steadily evolved into a pocket passer, and that the Carolina offense has moved away from a lot of the concepts they ran with him as a rookie. Kaepernick is out of the league, and Wilson's offense is hard to watch a lot of the time. Point being, these college concepts will migrate into the NFL from time to time, and occasionally proliferate as with zone read (or Wildcat for a season or two), but the surest successful offense in professional football will continue to be the one built around a fundamentally sound pocket passer. It confers advantages in the forward passing game that defenses will never be able to account for. That's why it's the gold standard, and why traditional quarterbacks will remain in high demand for the foreseeable future.

 

I get your point and mostly agree.

 

In my opinion Taylor is the best running QB in football right now. And the zone read has worked very well for Buffalo the last couple years. I would keep doing what has been working and tweak what hasn't. That's all.

 

He isn't going to run every play. Maybe you get one zone read in a series that has 8 plays in it. Get me? Part of the spaghetti sauce. Probably see it more often inside the red zone and on 3rd and short perhaps.

[BringBackOrton]

 

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

 

 

I get your point and mostly agree.

 

In my opinion Taylor is the best running QB in football right now. And the zone read has worked very well for Buffalo the last couple years. I would keep doing what has been working and tweak what hasn't. That's all.

 

He isn't going to run every play. Maybe you get one zone read in a series that has 8 plays in it. Get me? Part of the spaghetti sauce. Probably see it more often inside the red zone and on 3rd and short perhaps.

He said if all TT can do is rollouts, read option and the deep ball, we're screwed.

 

I understood it fine.

[K-9]

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

Let me clear it up for you since my subsequent posts didn't help you with my context:

 

Tyrod Taylor could be the GREATEST rollout, bootleg, moving pocket, read option QB of all time and we would STILL be worse off than we are now because you can't make those space limiting plays the foundation of your passing offense for the reasons I've already noted.

 

There are no lines to read between.

[transplantbillsfan]

Watching it multiple times and listening to ex-players like Donald Jones - I do not think this is on either TT or Zay.

 

Donald Jones put it best I thought - the pass should be a bit more to the outside - placement was not perfect, but when the safety is so far to the middle - Zay should of stayed further inside because it is easier to adjust to a throw toward the sidelines than toward the middle.

 

The pass and read was fine - the route was fine - both could of been better, but the combination of where the throw was and the way Zay ran the route made the catch very difficult. Both players need to learn from this.

 

I will give TT a lot of credit for that throw because for everyone calling for Peterman - I do not think Peterman makes that throw. I think Peterman reads the D and hits Shady at the first down sticks and life continues. That was a throw for the win by TT and I applaud that effort. Wish he would do that more.

 

RF, I like the take, and not because it takes blame off anyone.

 

Look, sitting in the bar where I was watching the game, I told the guy next to me it wouldn't shock me if there's a QB change at the half and I wouldn't be upset, either.

 

 

My feelings on Taylor are a lot more ambiguous than some of you think they are. I've been trying to establish that I'm excited about our future at the position because by 2018, one of two things will have happened:

 

1) Taylor will have such a good year in 2017 that we'll be pretty confident he's the guy leading us forward.

 

or

 

2) We will draft our future at the position, regardless of whether Taylor is retained for 2018, which he might be.

 

 

At this point, whether it's because the coaches just want a really conservative game plan or they just don't trust putting a bigger passing load on Taylor because they don't think he can handle it or he really can't handle it, I don't think we're going to see #1 happen.

 

Everyone said in the offseason we were obviously going to pass the ball a ton more than the last two years like it was obvious. I wish we would, but I don't know why it was so obvious.

 

And no, I'm not saying I wish we would pass the ball a ton more because I think Taylor would turn into a superstar. Unlike so many on this message board, I don't really know what Taylor would do if he were given a heavy passing load. What frustrated the hell outta me in the Carolina game was our game plan. I hope Dennison learns from it. Players need to execute, too, obviously. But I'm tired of these slow starts that extend for entire halves until we're desperate and need to open the game up.

 

 

Sink or swim. Let Taylor throw the ball 35 times a game. He's successful, good for 2017 for him and the team and maybe the future depending on how successful. He sucks, good for 2018 because we'll probably be in position to draft a guy.

 

 

When we started moving the ball on that last drive, it was the first time in awhile I actually felt like we were going to score a TD. Then the OPI happened and I lost it. Then it was back for the flash of an instant when I saw the ball in the air and Zay open.

 

Then heartbreak.

 

Oh the life of a Bills fan.

[Magox]

Maj, what do you think of this play?

 

Even though I do think Holmes would have beat his man for a deep one it is hard to blame TT here. He actually made a good read and threw it with anticipation.

[Royale with Cheese]

 

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

 

I get your point and mostly agree.

 

In my opinion Taylor is the best running QB in football right now. And the zone read has worked very well for Buffalo the last couple years. I would keep doing what has been working and tweak what hasn't. That's all.

 

He isn't going to run every play. Maybe you get one zone read in a series that has 8 plays in it. Get me? Part of the spaghetti sauce. Probably see it more often inside the red zone and on 3rd and short perhaps.

 

Dave....he's just saying you can't do it all the time. Why he used the term "steady diet". I didn't have a problem understanding it.

A handful of time, here and there, it would be effective.

All the time, it wouldn't be effective because you're playing with half the field.

[jrober38]

I've been waiting to see a full field view of the QB and Zay on that last play. I wasn't sure if TT had begun making his throw and then Zay ran the route to the sideline or if TT made the throw after he saw Zay making his run to the sideline.

 

For me it's now conclusive, TT should have made that throw to his outside shoulder just as Sal had said.

 

It's very possible that Zay could have turned more upfield on that route, but none the less TT made a poor throw and definitely deserves blame.

 

Donald Jones, a former receiver, discussed the play extensively on Monday's radio show. He's never been shy of criticizing Taylor in the past, yet in this situation he laid all the blame on Zay Jones.

 

He said that on that route, if the safety stays on the hash, that the WR is supposed to work vertically up the field to the pylon. The reason is simple.

 

1. The safety is on his back. If the safety breaks, he can shield the safety from the throw with his body, and adjust to the ball as needed by working back to the sideline. It allows the QB to either throw the ball up the field for a long play if the safety is out of position, or to the sideline so that he receiver can round his route off after the ball is in the air and secure the catch (if the safety breaks on the ball).

 

2. It's a lot easier to break the route off to the sideline than it is back up the field.

 

Taylor threw the ball exactly where it needed to be, but Jones, a rookie receiver ran a very poor route that he could recover from and secure the catch. This is how Donald Jones explained things, and there was no doubt in his mind the blame should fall on the rookie.

[transplantbillsfan]

You know what I see as a fan?

 

Coaches way too slow to adjust or modify the "plan."

 

 

Yep.

 

Super irritating.

[Royale with Cheese]

 

Donald Jones, a former receiver, discussed the play extensively on Monday's radio show. He's never been shy of criticizing Taylor in the past, yet in this situation he laid all the blame on Zay Jones.

 

He said that on that route, if the safety stays on the hash, that the WR is supposed to work vertically up the field to the pylon. The reason is simple.

 

1. The safety is on his back. If the safety breaks, he can shield the safety from the throw with his body, and adjust to the ball as needed by working back to the sideline. It allows the QB to either throw the ball up the field for a long play if the safety is out of position, or to the sideline so that he receiver can round his route off after the ball is in the air and secure the catch (if the safety breaks on the ball).

 

2. It's a lot easier to break the route off to the sideline than it is back up the field.

 

Taylor threw the ball exactly where it needed to be, but Jones, a rookie receiver ran a very poor route that he could recover from and secure the catch. This is how Donald Jones explained things, and there was no doubt in his mind the blame should fall on the rookie.

 

I originally put blame on Taylor and then I listened to Jones, watched the All 22 on it and I changed my mind.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Royale with Cheese

[transplantbillsfan]

Well I'm sure you'll understand that I don't just take your word for it. I actually would be interested to see another All-22 article and Russell Wilson would be my top priority because I think he and Tyrod are closer in value than people think. But I can guarantee none of the Buffalo media geniuses will come up with that idea.

 

I'm not looking for articles right now or anything, but I know there's been a narrative in Seattle that Wilson has a lot of the same issues. There was a lot of speculation that they'd draft a QB high to kinda push him competitively. Obviously, they didn't. But there's definitely concern regarding several of the same things.

[jrober38]

 

I originally put blame on Taylor and then I listened to Jones, watched the All 22 on it and I changed my mind.

 

As did I.

 

I thought Taylor missed the throw, then I listened to Jones properly explain the route concept, and it was clear Jones made a rookie mistake and Taylor delivered the ball exactly where it needed to be thrown.

 

Taylor had a rough game, but he didn't leave too many plays on the field, which is a testament to how bad the supporting cast is around him.

 

I'm not looking for articles right now or anything, but I know there's been a narrative in Seattle that Wilson has a lot of the same issues. There was a lot of speculation that they'd draft a QB high to kinda push him competitively. Obviously, they didn't. But there's definitely concern regarding several of the same things.

 

Wilson has regressed badly. As they've put more on his plate over the past few years, his effectiveness has steadily declined.

 

He's clearly not a pocket passer who you can drop back 35 times a game and ask to win a game for you. Like Taylor (and a ton of other NFL QBs), he needs a strong running game to back him up and put less on his plate because he's not the type of QB who can win you games on his own.

[Steptide]

This one my favorite

 

https://twitter.com/yardsperpass/status/909948976253800449

Who is that 2nd from the top? Could he have been anymore wide open? Geez Louise tyrod

[GG]

This is my favorite. Holmes is streaking by the CB and would have been far behind the CB if the ball was thrown to him

 

[okbills]

When the conversation devolves to this point over a QB its a SURE SIGN its over for the QB.

 

If he was doing great there would be no conversation.

 

We've been having a conversation about him like this for two years.

TT is done.

[hemma]

Has he ever checked out of a play?

 

I know he has called time out a few times, but has he ever deliberately changed the play?

 

I just don't think he processes info quick enough to make a decision. He's even having a hard time deciding whether to run.