Baker Mayfield...

[thenorthremembers]

11 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

It could also tell you that small QB's aren't allowed to play at lower levels unless they are exceptional passers.  It's not like college is flooded with 5'10" QB's.  They are the exception and not the rule.

 

But would you agree then that correlation to height and the ability to play quarterback is a result not of smaller players inability to play the position, but rather the predilection of coaches to place players at a position based on their size regardless of the fact that the predisposition may not necessarily be based on statistical fact?

 

Reminds me of when Moss and Owens were killing the league at wideout.  Suddenly everyone wanted giant receivers, so you end up with Devin Thomas, James Hardy, Malcolm Kelly and Limas Sweed being mentioned in the same conversation as Desean Jackson.   Or when the league suddenly wanted smaller faster defensive ends like Dwight Freeney, and you get Aaron Maybin in the first round.  

 

My point is, size, especially when you're talking inches should really take a back seat to who is the best player at their position.    

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Yes, if his measurables are far enough away from prototypical he will be considered less of a prospect. This is true of every player at every position. 

 

This is a completely different argument and it's completely invalid.

 

There's 2 starters in the NFL that are 6'0" or less. Wilson & Brees. Neither went in the first. If my memory serves, the last QB to go in the first that was under 6'0" was Manziel.

 

The thing is that Mayfield has high marks on pretty much every other area other than size, which again is still up in the air. Realistically, he's probably somewhere between 5'11" and 6'1". Would it be better if Mayfield were 6'4"? Sure, but I don't think his height and hand size is going to prevent him from going in the 1st round, and probably in the first half of it, given that he is a very talented QB. 

 

I don't understand the argument re: Wilson & Brees. I get they weren't drafted in the 1st, but I do not think any sane watcher of NFL football is going to say they shouldn't have been drafted in the 1st given their success. If we could go back and re-do their drafts, I expect both would be top 5 picks, if not first overall.  

 

Manziel had all the talent in the world. I don't think his height made him an off-the-field disaster. 

 

Regardless, you're still ignoring that Rodgers, taken in the 1st, without prototypical size, is one of the best QBs. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Regardless, you're still ignoring that Rodgers, taken in the 1st, without prototypical size, is one of the best QBs. 

You're literally the only one drawing the line at 6'2", and probably just so you can include Rodgers. I'm not ignoring Rodgers, I'm telling you he's irrelevant to the point I'm making. 6'0" and under is what I'm saying will push him out of the 1st. When people bring up Mayfield's size it's because he's listed at 6'1" on Oklahoma's website and most people don't even think he's that. If you want to continue to include Rodgers that's on you, but it's disingenuous when it pertains to this conversation.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

You're literally the only one drawing the line at 6'2", and probably just so you can include Rodgers. I'm not ignoring Rodgers, I'm telling you he's irrelevant to the point I'm making. 6'0" and under is what I'm saying will push him out of the 1st. When people bring up Mayfield's size it's because he's listed at 6'1" on Oklahoma's website and most people don't even think he's that. If you want to continue to include Rodgers that's on you, but it's disingenuous when it pertains to this conversation.

 

The only one... out of the two of us. You think 6'2" is prototypical size? I was actually thinking of this article (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/11/18/nfl-quarterbacks-does-height-matter/76023390/), and the fact that the average NFL QB is 6'3". I don't think below average QB height, 6'2", would be considered prototypical. You can go ahead and include all of the short QBs listed in that article:

 

Shortest QB's:

 

1. Russell Wilson – Seattle Seahawks – 5'11"
2. Drew Brees – New Orleans Saints – 6' (No.6)
3. Johnny Manziel – Cleveland Browns – 6'
4. Tyrod Taylor – Buffalo Bills – 6'1"
5. Aaron Rodgers – Green Bay Packers – 6'2" (No. 5)
6. Brian Hoyer – Houston Texans – 6'2" (No. 10)
7. Andy Dalton – Cincinnati Bengals – 6'2" (No. 4)
8. Ryan Fitzpatrick – New York Jets – 6'2"(No. 7)
9. Teddy Bridgewater – Minnesota Vikings – 6'2"

[BuffaloHokie13]

12 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

You think 6'2" is prototypical size?

No, I never said that. I'm also not concerned with prototypical size. There is a generally acceptable range, and the fear is that he is outside of that range. Who has mentioned prototypical size other than you? As I indicated before, when people bring up size concerns with Baker Mayfield they aren't just saying he's smaller than prototypical. They're saying he's 6' or less.

 

I really don't know why you're clinging to this so hard. If he measures 6'1" he'll go in the top half of the 1st. If he's 6'0" or under he'll likely go near the top of the 2nd, or in the late 20's via a team trading back in before the draft gets back to the QB needy group. None of that has anything to do with how he performs once he's drafted, but if i'm putting money on it I'm quite comfortable putting it on the side of he's not Rodgers, Brees, or Wilson. His on-field resume is very good. Combine workouts probably mean very little for his draft stock. How he measures and how he interviews are easily the most important things left for him. Since I don't get to interview him, I'm very much interested in how he measures.

[Woodman19]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

But would you agree then that correlation to height and the ability to play quarterback is a result not of smaller players inability to play the position, but rather the predilection of coaches to place players at a position based on their size regardless of the fact that the predisposition may not necessarily be based on statistical fact?

 

Reminds me of when Moss and Owens were killing the league at wideout.  Suddenly everyone wanted giant receivers, so you end up with Devin Thomas, James Hardy, Malcolm Kelly and Limas Sweed being mentioned in the same conversation as Desean Jackson.   Or when the league suddenly wanted smaller faster defensive ends like Dwight Freeney, and you get Aaron Maybin in the first round.  

 

My point is, size, especially when you're talking inches should really take a back seat to who is the best player at their position.    

My scouting experience in Baseball taught me that the physical projection of an athlete has a big bearing on future upside they have.  All things being equal, a 6'5" QB is going to be better than a 5'11" one because they can presumably see over the line and are harder to take down with a sack.  It all comes down to weighing the upside vs. downside and what we are looking for. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

37 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No, I never said that. I'm also not concerned with prototypical size. There is a generally acceptable range, and the fear is that he is outside of that range. Who has mentioned prototypical size other than you? As I indicated before, when people bring up size concerns with Baker Mayfield they aren't just saying he's smaller than prototypical. They're saying he's 6' or less.

 

I really don't know why you're clinging to this so hard. If he measures 6'1" he'll go in the top half of the 1st. If he's 6'0" or under he'll likely go near the top of the 2nd, or in the late 20's via a team trading back in before the draft gets back to the QB needy group. None of that has anything to do with how he performs once he's drafted, but if i'm putting money on it I'm quite comfortable putting it on the side of he's not Rodgers, Brees, or Wilson. His on-field resume is very good. Combine workouts probably mean very little for his draft stock. How he measures and how he interviews are easily the most important things left for him. Since I don't get to interview him, I'm very much interested in how he measures.

 

"Generally acceptable range" = prototypical

 

You: "Yes, if his measurables are far enough away from prototypical he will be considered less of a prospect. This is true of every player at every position."

 

The dude is going in the 1st round, and more than likely in the first half of it. He could somehow measure 5'9", but I've seen zero sources to back up that possibility. 

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

"Generally acceptable range" = prototypical

 

You: "Yes, if his measurables are far enough away from prototypical he will be considered less of a prospect. This is true of every player at every position."

 

The dude is going in the 1st round, and more than likely in the first half of it. He could somehow measure 5'9", but I've seen zero sources to back up that possibility. 

Generally acceptable range = 6'2"-6'6". Prototypical = 6'4". They are, in fact, different things. Very few people care if a QB is within 2" of prototypical. Lots of people care if you're 4" shorter than prototypical. Heck, a few people even made a big stink about Osweiler because he was 6'8" or whatever.

 

Far enough away. Yes. 6'0" is far enough away, and he could measure a moderate amount below that. There is a very real concern that he measures 6'0" or under. I've heard a rumor as low as 5'9" and another around 5'11". You don't like the info, that's fine. I still don't see why you're pulling Rodgers into it when his own school doesn't even report him as 6'2".

[Augie]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Patrick Mahomes

 

Maybe, I didn’t see enough of him to have an opinion. My general perception was middling. (So he’s either HOF or a bust.) But with Mayfield you get folks who say in 5 years he’ll be special and we’ll wonder why it wasn’t obvious to everyone (Herbstreit), and then people who wouldn’t draft him unless it was a late throw away pick. D. Jeremiah had a lot of good things to say too, as well as some others including folks here. Very polarizing. I get why, I just don’t know how it will turn out. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....will racking up all of these awards significantly affect Mayfield's draft stock?.......if he is your guy, how high could he now go if awards do have an effect and what would Buffalo have to do on draft day?.....

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....will racking up all of these awards significantly affect Mayfield's draft stock?.......if he is your guy, how high could he now go if awards do have an effect and what would Buffalo have to do on draft day?.....

I dont think the awards matter in terms of draft stock.  Based on team need I think he has a realistic shot of going in the top ten.  Will depend on if GMs favor him to Lamar Jackson.  Regardless he should be a 1st round pick.

Edited December 9, 2017 by thenorthremembers

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I dont think the awards matter in terms of draft stock.  Based on team need I think he has a realistic shot of going in the top ten.  Will depend on if GMs favor him to Lamar Jackson.  Regardless he should be a 1st round pick.

 

....thanks bud..........

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....thanks bud..........

If you are looking at this qb class from a Buffalo perspective you are hoping that more prospects come away evaluated as top tier qb prospects. It's still early in the process but so far Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson and maybe Rudolph and Allen should reach the upper rung. It's my opinion that Rosen and Darnold will be the top two qbs taken. (My opinion.) Mayfield and Jackson seem to be in the next grouping. As far as I'm concerned what some people may consider to be a consolation In the end could turn out to be legitimate franchise qbs. 

 

From what I have seen of Rosen he appears to be the best pro passer. He can deftly make all the pro passes i.e. in tight windows and anticipation throws. When watching him it must be factored in that he is not playing on a good team especially when comparing him to Darnold who is playing on a very talented team.

 

I have caught a number of Sooner games. My takeaway in every game Mayfield has played against very good competition is that he is the most dynamic, productive and influential player on the field. While many people are offended by his brashness what I find very revealing is that his players love him and they rally around him. 

 

My general point is that there is no excuse for this organization with its numerous draft assets that other teams don't have not to come out of this draft with an exciting and authentic qb prospect. If the opportunity is not seized this year then it will be a major disappointment. Make no mistake this team has a large number of needs besides the qb position. However, this franchise will not be able to move forward until that essential position is secured. Now is the time. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

20 hours ago, JohnC said:

If you are looking at this qb class from a Buffalo perspective you are hoping that more prospects come away evaluated as top tier qb prospects. It's still early in the process but so far Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson and maybe Rudolph and Allen should reach the upper rung. It's my opinion that Rosen and Darnold will be the top two qbs taken. (My opinion.) Mayfield and Jackson seem to be in the next grouping. As far as I'm concerned what some people may consider to be a consolation In the end could turn out to be legitimate franchise qbs. 

 

From what I have seen of Rosen he appears to be the best pro passer. He can deftly make all the pro passes i.e. in tight windows and anticipation throws. When watching him it must be factored in that he is not playing on a good team especially when comparing him to Darnold who is playing on a very talented team.

 

I have caught a number of Sooner games. My takeaway in every game Mayfield has played against very good competition is that he is the most dynamic, productive and influential player on the field. While many people are offended by his brashness what I find very revealing is that his players love him and they rally around him. 

 

My general point is that there is no excuse for this organization with its numerous draft assets that other teams don't have not to come out of this draft with an exciting and authentic qb prospect. If the opportunity is not seized this year then it will be a major disappointment. Make no mistake this team has a large number of needs besides the qb position. However, this franchise will not be able to move forward until that essential position is secured. Now is the time. 

 

 

...CERTAINLY appreciate the info and assessment as I don't get to see college ball.....funny how every year the pundits say wait until next year as THE one with blue chip QB's...and the next year and the next year.....it will forever be a crap shoot, FAR from an exact science.......and paralysis by analysis isn't the answer....Beane and his gang need to do their due diligence and lay out the pick(s) strategy.....all, some or none may fail...it's the nature of the beast....just hope they spend this draft capital WISELY.....

Edited December 10, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[RaoulDuke79]

Congrats Baker....love the fire. Learn to keep it in check and i hope he goes on to have a great career.

[KDIGGZ]

Same height as Doug Flutie. He won't 

[26CornerBlitz]

Well done kid!

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Mayfield wins 2017 Heisman Trophy (4:57)

Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield is crowned with the 2017 Heisman Trophy and Mayfield expresses what this award means to him and credits his team for getting him to this point.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 12/8/2017 at 1:37 PM, thebandit27 said:

 

Patrick Mahomes

 

 

This what makes me think we will have a chance to draft him and I hope we do.

 

If he was 6'5"  he'd be the top pick.

 

 

On 12/9/2017 at 9:09 PM, kdiggz said:

Same height as Doug Flutie. He won't 

 

 

Won't what?

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Augie]

On 12/11/2017 at 12:58 AM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 

This what makes me think we will have a chance to draft him and I hope we do.

 

If he was 6'5"  he'd be the top pick.

 

 

 

 

Won't what?

 

 

I knew a guy in college who said “I could have played in the NBA, but I can’t complain. I didn’t miss by an inch or two, I missed by a whole half of a foot!” (He played with our pretty decent college guys, and he might have been right.) I agree Mayfield would have a totally different outlook at 6’5”. Maybe he can still do it. Time will tell. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

I knew a guy in college who said “I could have played in the NBA, but I can’t complain. I didn’t miss by an inch or two, I missed by a whole half of a foot!” (He played with our pretty decent college guys, and he might have been right.) I agree Mayfield would have a totally different outlook at 6’5”. Maybe he can still do it. Time will tell. 

 

I believe he will. I keep hearing great things about his competitiveness. Ion Fitzsimons of ESPN says that he lives and breathes football and will do anything to be great.

 

 

[hemma]

I just heard on NFLN that shaking hands with him is like shaking hands with a set of keys or with a kangaroo.

 

So how big are those hands .... anyone know?

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

I just heard on NFLN that shaking hands with him is like shaking hands with a set of keys or with a kangaroo.

 

So how big are those hands .... anyone know?

 

I've been a proponent of drafting Mayfield or Jackson -- I surmise Darnold and Rosen are out of reach.  I think someone will reach on Allen early, too.

The small hands thing is a concern though, especially if you play in Western NY conditions.

[Dkollidas]

I just don’t think he’s what the Bills are looking for, just his personality and how he carries himself. They seem frown upon guys who could be viewed as an “attention seeker” or “high maintenance”, not to mention off field issues, along with physical height. I feel like he’s low the board of what they’re looking for.

 

guys that will be high:

Darnold

Rosen

Allen

Lock

Rudolph

- those to me are the 5 guys they’ll target to different degrees. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

18 hours ago, hemma said:

I just heard on NFLN that shaking hands with him is like shaking hands with a set of keys or with a kangaroo.

 

So how big are those hands .... anyone know?

 

 

 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

7 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I just don’t think he’s what the Bills are looking for, just his personality and how he carries himself. They seem frown upon guys who could be viewed as an “attention seeker” or “high maintenance”, not to mention off field issues, along with physical height. I feel like he’s low the board of what they’re looking for.

 

guys that will be high:

Darnold

Rosen

Allen

Lock

Rudolph

- those to me are the 5 guys they’ll target to different degrees. 

 

This is where I have always had a problem.   Mayfield is off the board for being "high maintenance" and "attention seeking" but we leave Rosen on?   If Mayfield is off, then Rosen is off for the same reasons.  

[Dkollidas]

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

This is where I have always had a problem.   Mayfield is off the board for being "high maintenance" and "attention seeking" but we leave Rosen on?   If Mayfield is off, then Rosen is off for the same reasons.  

 

Possibly, I’m not sure, just guessing, so you could totally be right. To me there’s two differences.

 

1. Rosen hasn’t had off-field issues that I know of, and certainly not to the degree Mayfield has.

 

2. The physical characteristics couldn’t be more different. 6’4” versus 6’0” I would imagine is a big deal to McDermott and Beane who have talked repeatedly about a guy being able to “stand tall in the pocket”, etc etc 

[thenorthremembers]

10 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

 

Possibly, I’m not sure, just guessing, so you could totally be right. To me there’s two differences.

 

1. Rosen hasn’t had off-field issues that I know of, and certainly not to the degree Mayfield has.

 

2. The physical characteristics couldn’t be more different. 6’4” versus 6’0” I would imagine is a big deal to McDermott and Beane who have talked repeatedly about a guy being able to “stand tall in the pocket”, etc etc 

 

I think Rosen's stature is strikingly similar to Goff, and from that standpoint I agree the size is different.   On the off the field issues, Rosen hasnt been arrested thats true, but if you're speaking about attention seeking and me first I think its fair his name come up in that category.   And just for argument sake, I am sure Rosen would have had even more attention grabbing headlines if he had performed or won in the fashion Mayfield has this year.

[Jay_Fixit]

On December 10, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 

This what makes me think we will have a chance to draft him and I hope we do.

 

If he was 6'5"  he'd be the top pick.

 

 

 

 

Won't what?

 

 

Height for QB's... Hahahaha.

[Victory Formation]

We don't have a shot at Darnold or Rosen, no chance in hell. Probably have to trade up for Allen. Mayfield and Jackson are risky picks in the 1st, I'm not sure yet.

Edited December 15, 2017 by NewDayBills

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[YoloinOhio]

FYI he reportedly has the flu. May be playing at less than 100%.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

FYI he reportedly has the flu. May be playing at less than 100%.

 

That's 4 days off, he will be fine.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 1:06 PM, Dkollidas said:

 

Possibly, I’m not sure, just guessing, so you could totally be right. To me there’s two differences.

 

1. Rosen hasn’t had off-field issues that I know of, and certainly not to the degree Mayfield has.

 

2. The physical characteristics couldn’t be more different. 6’4” versus 6’0” I would imagine is a big deal to McDermott and Beane who have talked repeatedly about a guy being able to “stand tall in the pocket”, etc etc 

Rosen is just very opinionated and snooty. He came from money and was coddled so at any time he could say screw football and be a politician. On the other hand kid has a great arm and incredible deep ball accuracy and to me seems like the best pure passer in the draft. Could be a Cutler though.

[26CornerBlitz]

WTF?!?  

 

 

[The Now Moment]

12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

WTF?!?  

 

 

I am all for taking multiple things into account when it comes to scouting but this sounds like overscouting to me.  Unless it's like a sicle cell thing where he can't play in the cold...this is too much.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

That's not real, right?

[Billsfansinceday1]

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

That's not real, right?

That’s nuts.  People get the flu and it kicks ass for a few days then life goes on.  It is, however, tough on people with compromised immune systems but not necessarily  indicative of it.