Baker Mayfield...

[Luka]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I have concerns about height and maturity,  but he’s fun to watch and seems to find the open guy. When  guys like Daniel Jeremiah and Kirk Herbstreit are very impressed, I have to at least listen. Herbstreit said this morning 5 years from now he could be the best from the class and we’ll be wondering why everyone didn’t see it. 

 

Time will tell. I don’t pretend to be an expert or owner of a crystal ball. I will say the Johnny Football comparisons are just lazy. 

 

Well the previous comment mentioned his progression through reads. He plays in a 1-2 read offense. Alot of his completions are short dump offs and flip passes to guys coming out of the backfield or they roll him out due to his height and then he's only reading half of the field. He's pretty much the furthest thing from a traditional pocket passer. College is very deceiving when it comes to guys like this. To me he doesn't show any traits of being an NFL passer. His mechanics are all over the place, he throws off balance, from his back foot. across his body. On Saturday's it looks great, on Sunday's it's usually a disaster.

 

Unless someone like Mike Leach is going to be our OC I see him struggling. But that's just my opinion.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Well the previous comment mentioned his progression through reads. He plays in a 1-2 read offense. Alot of his completions are short dump offs and flip passes to guys coming out of the backfield or they roll him out due to his height and then he's only reading half of the field. He's pretty much the furthest thing from a traditional pocket passer. College is very deceiving when it comes to guys like this. To me he doesn't show any traits of being an NFL passer. His mechanics are all over the place, he throws off balance, from his back foot. across his body. On Saturday's it looks great, on Sunday's it's usually a disaster.

 

Unless someone like Mike Leach is going to be our OC I see him struggling. But that's just my opinion.

 

I won’t pretend to “know” anything. I will say he’s fun to watch, and I’m surprised that some of the folks I think the most of all say he gets to a third read, has a good throwing motion with plenty of torque and his teammates love him. There’s a guy like that on my college hoops team, if he’s not YOUR guy, you’re going to hate him. 

 

Again, time will tell. 

[The Now Moment]

While I like Mayfield, he still has a lot of flaws.  He may sneak into the top ten but that's as high as I see him going.  If he has poor interviews or a less than stellar draft process, he would find his way to the second round.  

 

He's really hit or miss with me.  Not my favorite QB prospect this year.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[thenorthremembers]

41 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

His size is a big concern but I dont think Ive enjoyed watching a college player more.  The throws down the seam where only his wideout can get it are beautiful to watch.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

His size is a big concern but I dont think Ive enjoyed watching a college player more.  The throws down the seam where only his wideout can get it are beautiful to watch.

 

It shouldn't be IMO. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1. Baker Mayfield is the most fascinating player in the playoff.

 

If the Oklahoma QB has a nice run in the postseason starting with this game against Georgia, he could solidify himself as a first-round pick, assuming teams are satisfied when they look into the off-the-field concerns with the QB.

 

Mayfield is expected to win the Heisman Trophy when it is awarded later this week, and the playoff could be an exclamation point on his sensational year. He already tore up Ohio State and TCU twice. Now, he has a chance to go up against a top SEC defense in UGA. People knock the Big 12 for its lack of defense, and rightfully so, but he's going to eliminate the argument that he hasn't played anybody once he steps foot on the field vs. the Bulldogs.

 

Everyone knows Mayfield's emotions can get the best of him. This will definitely be an emotional atmosphere. He'll get a chance to test himself in that regard.

 

Difference is Mayfield has played much more consistently than Watson did last fall. Watson took his game to another level once the playoff started. The thing we found out about Watson is that once the stakes got raised, he can find a whole other level. That's what makes him special. My question is: Does that level exist for Mayfield and can he find it?

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It shouldn't be IMO. 

Agree.  Id take him in a second if I was a GM.  But fact is height scares these guys off.  Cant wait to see wherr he goes.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

QBs at 6'2": D. Brees, A. Rodgers, R. Wilson

 

I'll take Mayfield, please.

 

Hopefully we can trade up with one 1st round pick and (an)other pick(s), and keep the other 1st round pick for an OG/DT. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12:36 PM ET

Associated Press

 

NEW YORK -- Baker Mayfield is The Associated Press college football Player of the Year, becoming the fourth Oklahoma quarterback to win the award since it was established in 1998

[LABILLBACKER]

If he can lead the Sooners to a national championship and measures out over 6-0 I can live with us taking him in the 2nd-3rd round. I like QB's with a chip on their shoulder.

[Woodman19]

I just can't get past his throwing motion.  He has terrible throwing mechanics and often throws off his back leg from what I have seen.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Woodman19

[Augie]

Who is the last QB with such mixed reviews? 

[Woodman19]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

Who is the last QB with such mixed reviews? 

Good question.  I find though, most people who like his play like his production and most who dislike him as a prospect criticize his tools.  Whats more important going forward, good fundamentals or college production?

[Augie]

Just now, Woodman19 said:

Good question.  I find though, most people who like his play like his production and most who dislike him as a prospect criticize his tools.  Whats more important going forward, good fundamentals or college production?

 

I’ve been surprised by some of the people who insist he has good fundamentals. I mean, it looks good to me, but I’ve not seen enough, nor am I qualified to judge. Some smart people say his throwing motion is solid and he goes through his reads before making very accurate throws. Others say he’s a tiny little guy with police video who likes to crotch grab on TV playing against high school defenses. 

 

What is this guy? 

[Woodman19]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’ve been surprised by some of the people who insist he has good fundamentals. I mean, it looks good to me, but I’ve not seen enough, nor am I qualified to judge. Some smart people say his throwing motion is solid and he goes through his reads before making very accurate throws. Others say he’s a tiny little guy with police video who likes to crotch grab on TV playing against high school defenses. 

 

What is this guy? 

I typically allow for a red flag as no one is perfect, but I don't like the foot work, I dont like the release, I don't like the size and I don't like the repeated attitude.  When you are talking about a 1st round pick, you don't take that much risk IMO when you have other options with far less baggage.

[Augie]

30 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

I typically allow for a red flag as no one is perfect, but I don't like the foot work, I dont like the release, I don't like the size and I don't like the repeated attitude.  When you are talking about a 1st round pick, you don't take that much risk IMO when you have other options with far less baggage.

 

And you may very well be right. Yet people like Daniel Jeremiah praise him and Kirk Herbstreit says in 5 years he could be so good we’d all wonder why it was hard for people to see. Plenty of talking heads agree he’s not worth a shot before the 3rd.  I don’t have a position, other than it’s interesting what a wide variance of opinion there is. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 12/6/2017 at 8:43 PM, thenorthremembers said:

Agree.  Id take him in a second if I was a GM.  But fact is height scares these guys off.  Cant wait to see wherr he goes.

 

 

To the Hall of Fame for the Bills.

 

 

8 hours ago, Woodman19 said:

I just can't get past his throwing motion.  He has terrible throwing mechanics and often throws off his back leg from what I have seen.

 

 

Seriously???

 

Have not heard one bad word about his throwing motion and he is very accurate. The last thing he needs is some "expert" ruining his throwing motion.

 

 

[GG]

10 hours ago, Augie said:

Who is the last QB with such mixed reviews? 

 

Russell Wilson, Tebow, Manziel?

[BuffaloHokie13]

23 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

QBs at 6'2": D. Brees, A. Rodgers, R. Wilson

 

I'll take Mayfield, please.

 

Hopefully we can trade up with one 1st round pick and (an)other pick(s), and keep the other 1st round pick for an OG/DT. 

So 3 in the last 16 years?

 

And what happens when he gets measured and he's not 6'2", but actually 5'10" or less?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

48 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So 3 in the last 16 years?

 

And what happens when he gets measured and he's not 6'2", but actually 5'10" or less?

 

3 of the best QBs in the game who all have Super Bowl rings, and not an exhaustive list. I'm sure there is a long list of tall QBs who were busts. 

 

And I guess I'll be hitting you up to see where you get your crystal ball. Or at least curious as to how you were able to sneak in somewhere and measure Mayfield's height...

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

3 of the best QBs in the game who all have Super Bowl rings, and not an exhaustive list. I'm sure there is a long list of tall QBs who were busts. 

 

And I guess I'll be hitting you up to see where you get your crystal ball. Or at least curious as to how you were able to sneak in somewhere and measure Mayfield's height...

So, to be clear, if he measures under 6', let alone 6'2", you still think he's going in the 1st and should possibly be traded up for? (Brees went in the 2nd, and Wilson went in the 3rd because they were 6' and under)

 

And no, I haven't measured his height personally. But I've heard rumblings from a couple different places putting him in the 5'9" to 5'11" range, and less than exceptional hand size.

Edited December 8, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13

[JohnBonhamRocks]

44 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So, to be clear, if he measures under 6', let alone 6'2", you still think he's going in the 1st and should possibly be traded up for? (Brees went in the 2nd, and Wilson went in the 3rd because they were 6' and under)

 

And no, I haven't measured his height personally. But I've heard rumblings from a couple different places putting him in the 5'9" to 5'11" range, and less than exceptional hand size.

 

I think there is a good chance he still goes in the 1st, yes. I think the prevailing thought is that Mayfield is worth trading up for, but if he is 5'9", then yeah maybe that changes, although I haven't seen any source put him that short. FWIW, Wilson's draft profile had him at 5'11", and he's now again considered 6'1" or so in the NFL. (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/russell-wilson?id=2532975) But do you not think teams would take Brees and Wilson in the 1st if they could go back and do it again?

 

I guess what I am saying is that teams are more likely to take a shorter guy in the 1st given the success of guys like Brees and Wilson. You also conveniently left out Rodgers. Height is a factor, to be sure, but I just don't think it is dispositive as to whether he will be a successful NFL QB. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

I think there is a good chance he still goes in the 1st, yes. I think the prevailing thought is that Mayfield is worth trading up for, but if he is 5'9", then yeah maybe that changes, although I haven't seen any source put him that short. FWIW, Wilson's draft profile had him at 5'11", and he's now again considered 6'1" or so in the NFL. (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/russell-wilson?id=2532975) But do you not think teams would take Brees and Wilson in the 1st if they could go back and do it again?

 

I guess what I am saying is that teams are more likely to take a shorter guy in the 1st given the success of guys like Brees and Wilson. You also conveniently left out Rodgers. Height is a factor, to be sure, but I just don't think it is dispositive as to whether he will be a successful NFL QB. 

I left out Rodgers because there's 0 chance Mayfield is 6'2".

 

Maybe if he gets himself a pair of these though...

Edited December 8, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13

[JohnBonhamRocks]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I left out Rodgers because there's 0 chance Mayfield is 6'2".

 

Maybe if he gets himself a pair of these though...

 

OK, then same for Wilson and Brees. Guess they should take their rings away. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

OK, then same for Wilson and Brees. Guess they should take their rings away. 

Not even remotely the point I'm making, but thanks for trying! Unfortunately for Baker, his measurables are going to be an important factor in where he goes. I'm also nowhere near ready to compare him to any of the guys you're bringing up skill-wise.

[John from Riverside]

If the guy came anywhere close to one of our 1st round picks I would do it without blinking.

 

We need to draft talent and let McD coach them.......one of the big problems with the team right now is it doesnt have enough talent.

 

Not having to use a bunch of picks to move up for a qb allows us to dress some other real issues like DL and LB

[Bill from NYC]

9 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

 

 

Not having to use a bunch of picks to move up for a qb allows us to dress some other real issues like DL and LB

True John but you might want to include some offensive linemen in the mix at almost every position.

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So, to be clear, if he measures under 6', let alone 6'2", you still think he's going in the 1st and should possibly be traded up for? (Brees went in the 2nd, and Wilson went in the 3rd because they were 6' and under)

 

And no, I haven't measured his height personally. But I've heard rumblings from a couple different places putting him in the 5'9" to 5'11" range, and less than exceptional hand size.

 

In regards to your statement here statistics need to be measured and compared in a normalized fashion to tell the actual story, mainly because your discounting the fact that an immense number of players who are taller than 6'2 have been massive failures as well.  The more true statement is players under 6'2 just dont really get a chance to show their worth in the NFL.  

 

For instance since 2010 (not including this year) 85 quarterbacks have been drafted, of those only seven players have been 6'1 or less.   Still, within that group of seven, two players have proven to be either a viable NFL starter (Tyrod Taylor) or a NFL superstar (Russell Wilson) thats 28%, or if you want to look at it pessimistically a 72% failure rate.  On the flip side 78 players have been drafted who were 6'2 or greater and of those players only 13 became viable starters or superstars, 16% or a 84% failure rate.

 

I would say this stat tells us one of two things,  A. Height doesnt matter at all or B. NFL GMs are so blind they dont realize their is no magic height/weight formula for a franchise quarterback and it really should be looked at on a player by player basis.

 

And on the point about Mayfield being 5'9, whoever had those rumblings either has an agenda against Mayfield or hasnt watched one OU game.   When he stands next to his RB Rodney Anderson who happens to be 6'2 he isnt dwarfed in the manner someone 5'9 would be. 

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I would say this stat tells us one of two things,  A. Height doesnt matter at all or B. NFL GMs are so blind they dont realize their is no magic height/weight formula for a franchise quarterback and it really should be looked at on a player by player basis.

It tells me that percentages are skewed heavily by sample size.

 

If you want to hitch your wagon to him that's fine. I'm holding off until I can get a better picture. But to throw out Drew Brees, Russ Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers as the reason to draft him is setting the kid up to be a disappointment.

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It tells me that percentages are skewed heavily by sample size.

 

If you want to hitch your wagon to him that's fine. I'm holding off until I can get a better picture. But to throw out Drew Brees, Russ Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers as the reason to draft him is setting the kid up to be a disappointment.

 

I agree on your point about the comparisons to those quarterbacks, I dont think that makes sense to do for anyone who hasnt played a down in the league yet.  I guess I just dont know what else the kid has to do to prove he is worthy of being a 1st round pick.   I dont know if he will be good in the NFL any better than I do Rosen, Darnold, Jackson etc but he is the most elite player at his position in coll ege football and he hasnt done it in a gimmicky fashion.   What is incredibly irritating is to see players like Josh Allen and Clayton Thorson rated above him because they are 6'5.  

 

Literally saw a national columnist from CBS say yesterday he wasnt on the Mayfield train because he wants to wait and see what he does in the CFB Playoffs.  Seriously man?  The kid has played 47 games to this point and won 83% of them including some really impressive games against great defenses, including games in the CFB Playoffs.   Again, I have no problem with someone not hitching their wagon to him as you say, but lets be real if anyone tries to pretend its because of his play on the field they are full of it. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

9 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

I agree on your point about the comparisons to those quarterbacks, I dont think that makes sense to do for anyone who hasnt played a down in the league yet.  I guess I just dont know what else the kid has to do to prove he is worthy of being a 1st round pick.   I dont know if he will be good in the NFL any better than I do Rosen, Darnold, Jackson etc but he is the most elite player at his position in coll ege football and he hasnt done it in a gimmicky fashion.   What is incredibly irritating is to see players like Josh Allen and Clayton Thorson rated above him because they are 6'5.  

 

Literally saw a national columnist from CBS say yesterday he wasnt on the Mayfield train because he wants to wait and see what he does in the CFB Playoffs.  Seriously man?  The kid has played 47 games to this point and won 83% of them including some really impressive games against great defenses, including games in the CFB Playoffs.   Again, I have no problem with someone not hitching their wagon to him as you say, but lets be real if anyone tries to pretend its because of his play on the field they are full of it. 

I've got both of those guys as day 3 prospects, for what it's worth. Mayfield is in the 25-40 range for me right now, and could move up if he measures better than I'm expecting. Still not someone I'd advocate selling the farm for, and still don't think he's great match for McD's character profile.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Not even remotely the point I'm making, but thanks for trying! Unfortunately for Baker, his measurables are going to be an important factor in where he goes. I'm also nowhere near ready to compare him to any of the guys you're bringing up skill-wise.

 

I thought the point you were making is that Mayfield should be considered less of a QB prospect because his measurables might not be prototypical. 

 

That would look like this:

 

IF no prototypical measurables, THEN cannot be great NFL QB

 

So, I came up with 3 examples of great NFL QBs currently playing who do not have prototypical measurables. I'm not saying Mayfield will necessarily be a great NFL QB, because I wouldn't say that about any QB prospect. I'm saying that the balance between (a) all his other positive attributes and (b) the possibility his measurables might not be prototypical, to me, falls decidedly in his favor as a prospect. 

[thebandit27]

15 hours ago, Augie said:

Who is the last QB with such mixed reviews? 

 

Patrick Mahomes

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

I thought the point you were making is that Mayfield should be considered less of a QB prospect because his measurables might not be prototypical. 

Yes, if his measurables are far enough away from prototypical he will be considered less of a prospect. This is true of every player at every position. 

 

3 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

IF no prototypical measurables, THEN cannot be great NFL QB

This is a completely different argument and it's completely invalid.

 

There's 2 starters in the NFL that are 6'0" or less. Wilson & Brees. Neither went in the first. If my memory serves, the last QB to go in the first that was under 6'0" was Manziel.

[thenorthremembers]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Yes, if his measurables are far enough away from prototypical he will be considered less of a prospect. This is true of every player at every position. 

 

This is a completely different argument and it's completely invalid.

 

There's 2 starters in the NFL that are 6'0" or less. Wilson & Brees. Neither went in the first. If my memory serves, the last QB to go in the first that was under 6'0" was Manziel.

 

Technically three.  Tyrod measured below 73 inches at the combine. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Technically three.  Tyrod measured below 73 inches at the combine. 

His official combine page says 6'1". I suppose they rounded up?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/tyrod-taylor?id=2495240

 

Also, the reason I brought up hand size earlier is that both (and Tyrod for that matter) had 10"+ hands.

Brees - 10.25"

Wilson - 10.25"

Taylor - 10"

[thenorthremembers]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

His official combine page says 6'1". I suppose they rounded up?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/tyrod-taylor?id=2495240

 

Also, the reason I brought up hand size earlier is that both (and Tyrod for that matter) had 10"+ hands.

Brees - 10.25"

Wilson - 10.25"

Taylor - 10"

 

Yeah they rounded up.  He was measured at 72 3/4.   Using that method Manziel would have been 6'0 as I believe he was 71 3/4.

 

Its amazing how quarters of an inch can cost a guy hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Woodman19]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

In regards to your statement here statistics need to be measured and compared in a normalized fashion to tell the actual story, mainly because your discounting the fact that an immense number of players who are taller than 6'2 have been massive failures as well.  The more true statement is players under 6'2 just dont really get a chance to show their worth in the NFL.  

 

For instance since 2010 (not including this year) 85 quarterbacks have been drafted, of those only seven players have been 6'1 or less.   Still, within that group of seven, two players have proven to be either a viable NFL starter (Tyrod Taylor) or a NFL superstar (Russell Wilson) thats 28%, or if you want to look at it pessimistically a 72% failure rate.  On the flip side 78 players have been drafted who were 6'2 or greater and of those players only 13 became viable starters or superstars, 16% or a 84% failure rate.

 

I would say this stat tells us one of two things,  A. Height doesnt matter at all or B. NFL GMs are so blind they dont realize their is no magic height/weight formula for a franchise quarterback and it really should be looked at on a player by player basis.

 

And on the point about Mayfield being 5'9, whoever had those rumblings either has an agenda against Mayfield or hasnt watched one OU game.   When he stands next to his RB Rodney Anderson who happens to be 6'2 he isnt dwarfed in the manner someone 5'9 would be. 

 

 

It could also tell you that small QB's aren't allowed to play at lower levels unless they are exceptional passers.  It's not like college is flooded with 5'10" QB's.  They are the exception and not the rule.