Do You BitCoin?

[ALF]

Bill Gates says crypto and NFTs are a sham

Those digital asset trends are "100% based on greater fool theory," the Microsoft co-founder said Tuesday at a TechCrunch conference, referencing the notion that investors can make money on worthless or overvalued assets as long as people are willing to bid them higher.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/15/tech/bill-gates-crypto-nfts-comments/index.html

 

Bitcoin mining factories use a lot of electricity here in WNY . This is a bigger and widespread big money venture. Going to need more solar and wind farms to keep up.

 

Bitcoin miners are predicted to use around 130 Terawatt-hours of energy (TWh), according to The University of Cambridge’s bitcoin electricity consumption index. As TechCrunch points out, Bitcoin's carbon dioxide emissions are roughly the same as a country like Jordan, with a population of 10 million people.

 

https://mashable.com/article/bitcoin-mining-power-plant

Edited June 15, 2022 by ALF

[TheCockSportif]

33 minutes ago, ALF said:

Bill Gates says crypto and NFTs are a sham

Those digital asset trends are "100% based on greater fool theory," the Microsoft co-founder said Tuesday at a TechCrunch conference, referencing the notion that investors can make money on worthless or overvalued assets as long as people are willing to bid them higher.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/15/tech/bill-gates-crypto-nfts-comments/index.html

 

Bitcoin mining factories use a lot of electricity here in WNY . This is a bigger and widespread big money venture. Going to need more solar and wind farms to keep up.

 

https://mashable.com/article/bitcoin-mining-power-plant

I was born and grew up in NT.  There's a crypto facility on/off Ruie Rd, and god does it create a racket.

 

And plus crypto mining performance degrades over time, so things get a lot worse as crypto grows bigger.  No crypto enthusiast, and I say this as one who understands the core tech around crypto, has been able to tell me why there is so much waste.  It's a feature, and not a bug.  Plus, hearing that crypto markets shutdown due to inability to keep up with trades is also a red flag.  Has WS ever shutdown due to a huge number of trades?  Never, at least not in the tech era, that I recall.

 

Far be it for me to tell someone how to spend their loot, but I don't think that being hypercritical of crypto, as it is constituted today, is a bad thing.

[Poleshifter]

6 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

So essentially you're gambling that the the US stock market which is worth somewhere around 50 trillion dollars is going to collapse and you're going to get rich?  You do realize that in this scenario it would mean the world would be ending and your coins would also be worthless? 

The world will not be ending. This is simply a historic financial collapse.

 

What's coming is NESARA - National Economic Security and Reformation Act.

 

Print on the image is kind of small, so a few highlights:

Debt forgiveness - mortgages, credit cards, other bank debt wiped out

Abolishes IRS and income tax

New currency - backed by precious metals

 

Prices will be returning to 1955 levels. Life will be good.

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, Poleshifter said:

The world will not be ending. This is simply a historic financial collapse.

 

What's coming is NESARA - National Economic Security and Reformation Act.

 

Print on the image is kind of small, so a few highlights:

Debt forgiveness - mortgages, credit cards, other bank debt wiped out

Abolishes IRS and income tax

New currency - backed by precious metals

 

Prices will be returning to 1955 levels. Life will be good.

Why are you citing legislation from a picture that was taken with a flip phone?  A .gov source would be appreciated.

[BuffaloBill]

On 6/13/2022 at 5:03 PM, Augie said:

 

 

…..and now there will be the great reckoning. We bought a house about 6 months ago and got a 30 year fixed rate at 2.75%. Today that would be closer to 5.75%…..in just 6 months, and they are just getting started. This prolonged period of extremely low interest rates was unprecedented, and it had to come to an end with all that extra money out there. 

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/2015/fed-funds-rate-historical-chart

 

For the record, I started in banking in 1982 (see chart), and I did not have a full grasp of  just how unprecedented and extreme that was. It’s sometimes hard to see the big picture clearly in the moment. 

 

 

EDIT: Full disclosure, I just remembered our mortgage converts to an ARM in 15 or 20 years, but we will be long gone by then or just pay it off. We would have gone without the mortgage, but we KNEW that it wouldn’t be long before we could do MUCH better using that money in other ways. 

 

 

.

 

 

Remember, it was not that long ago that due to deflationary concerns there was some background conversation about the possibility of negative interest rates.  That’s a pretty bizarre concept - we, The Fed, will pay you, banks primarily, to take money  

[Poleshifter]

4 hours ago, TheCockSportif said:

If a certification is required, but we have a total system failure, why would anybody put their faith in a certification?  And would there even be a governing body to manage the certification process, should the system fail?

 

Regarding the impacts of Evergrande, I admit that I am skeptical.  Any time I hear of an earthquake of an event, I wonder why a single event would lead to total chaos on the stock market.

 

FWIW, I have a computer science degree (UB), and did devops for a living before I moved to being a sales engineer 8 years ago.  I understand the tech behind "coins", and therefore find myself somewhat conflicted about the aims of crypto overall.  Plus there's a Q vibe to this whole thing, and naive thinking around what will actually happen should Wall Street collapse.

100% correct analysis, and if Wall Street dies, we'll all be in a world of hurt -- before WS is replaced with a crypto model.

ISO20022 certification is actually a messaging standard used by financial institutions of the world. It's not like a certification you earn as a developer.

 

Evergrande owns 90% of China's housing market. So when they are delisted from the stock market tomorrow (June 16), there is likely to be some serious shtuff hitting the fan. 

 

A Q vibe, you say?

[May Day 10]

RETURNS CONSTITUTIONAL LAW

[TheCockSportif]

10 minutes ago, Poleshifter said:

ISO20022 certification is actually a messaging standard used by financial institutions of the world. It's not like a certification you earn as a developer.

 

Evergrande owns 90% of China's housing market. So when they are delisted from the stock market tomorrow (June 16), there is likely to be some serious shtuff hitting the fan. 

 

A Q vibe, you say?

I am thoroughly familiar with ISO20022, and of HIPAA, PCI, MITRE, and so forth.

 

My Q vibe remark is not unfounded.  Should the Watkins clan be believed, the 2020 election would've been overturned eons ago.  When someone says that something big is going to happen, then nothing happens, one wonders why these broad prognostications never come to be.  Do I think that the world will change tomorrow, IOW?  NO.

 

Crypto has its place, and I hope that people keep researching it.  It's a neat idea, but it's not cooked.  And most certainly it requires oversight, and that's something that the crypto crowd doesn't want in the slightest.

31 minutes ago, Poleshifter said:

Prices will be returning to 1955 levels. Life will be good.

If prices return to 1955 levels, wouldn't you sense a regression in terms of salaries and so on?  If companies can't make money, given 1955 levels, how can they make money?  This is lunacy, and I hope that you are just trolling.

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, Poleshifter said:

ISO20022 certification is actually a messaging standard used by financial institutions of the world. It's not like a certification you earn as a developer.

 

Evergrande owns 90% of China's housing market. So when they are delisted from the stock market tomorrow (June 16), there is likely to be some serious shtuff hitting the fan. 

 

A Q vibe, you say?

 

Evergrande has 300 bil in debt and is already a pink slip stock.   It's already priced into the market.  You've got some crazy ideas man so good luck. 

[DrW]

5 hours ago, Poleshifter said:

 

 

 

If you have 20 minutes of spare time, here is a BBC program on NESARA.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct1xzv

 

Apparently, NESARA started rather innocently in the 1990s with focusing on some of the economic aspects. Then, in the beginning of the 2000s it was hijacked by a nutcase who called herself the "Dove of Oneness". She added half of the points shown in Poleshifter's pic above, mostly the more political/social ones like world peace. Since she took over 20 years ago, NESARA published numerous predictions that the global economic system would collapse soon - of course,this has never happened (so far?). The only new twist that Poleshifter's posts add is the involvement of cryptocurrencies. 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Remember, it was not that long ago that due to deflationary concerns there was some background conversation about the possibility of negative interest rates.  That’s a pretty bizarre concept - we, The Fed, will pay you, banks primarily, to take money  

 

That is almost what it was, amazingly.  I hope the ride doesn’t get too rough. The piper always gets paid. 

[billsfanmiamioh]

On 6/14/2022 at 6:46 PM, Poleshifter said:

I was not thinking of you as one of the taunters.

 

If you are currently invested in the stock market, you may well lose out. NYSE goes away. The new stock market will be a different entity.

 

I will keep you all posted as things develop.

 

I understand what you mean about disbelief. All my friends and family are disbelievers.

I disagree with this. The system that keeps wealthy people wealthy isn’t going to suddenly “disappear” and lead to a massive redistribution of that wealth because of crypto. The powers that be will not let that happen. 
 

It’s more like gambling than anything at this point. A small percentage of people may get lucky and win big, but the masses will lose. I know there are some interesting and promising applications for some of the components of crypto, and I think those “good ideas” will translate elsewhere. 
 

I have some crypto but it’s probably like .1% of my net worth (or less). If the entire financial system & stock market is goes upside down in favor of crypto, we’ll have much bigger problems to deal with. Guns, ammo, food and access to water would be a lot more valuable at that point than some token. 

[BillsFan4]

If your investment strategy requires the entire world’s economy to completely collapse, it seems like a very poor investment strategy. Just saying…

[Jauronimo]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

If your investment strategy requires the entire world’s economy to completely collapse, it seems like a very poor investment strategy. Just saying…

If your investment strategy relies on a total misunderstanding of crypto markets, equity markets, ISO 20022, and includes a lot of tinfoil hat globalist conspiracies then its going to be big in PPP.

[TheCockSportif]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

If your investment strategy relies on a total misunderstanding of crypto markets, equity markets, ISO 20022, and includes a lot of tinfoil hat globalist conspiracies then its going to be big in PPP.

I note, also, that the world has not come to an end today.  Well, I guess I should've said that there are trades still happening on Wall Street.  I say this because... trading is still open from what I can tell.

 

Then again, maybe this will be an impetus to write a suitable sequel to the musical "Annie".  I always thought that it was "Annie, Get your Gun", but maybe this time Annie will get her gun and shoot Daddy Warbucks? 

[Just Jack]

35 minutes ago, TheCockSportif said:

Then again, maybe this will be an impetus to write a suitable sequel to the musical "Annie".  I always thought that it was "Annie, Get your Gun", but maybe this time Annie will get her gun and shoot Daddy Warbucks? 

 

The song by Squeeze? 

[SoTier]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:25 PM, Poleshifter said:

I have tried to warn a few people about the coming collapse of the stock market. But I am not a financial advisor or economist, just a retired software engineer, so nobody listens. Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Tether are doomed along with most other crypto. The only survivors will be those "coins" to be used in the quantum financial system, where ISO20022 certification is required.

 

There is a "***** hits the fan" event coming soon, perhaps this Thursday June 16 when Evergrande is removed from the stock market. When this happens, cryptos will take a quantum leap, in one direction or the other. Once things settle down, crypto trading should then be more of an incremental thing.

 

In your position, I would cash in a chunk of stock and buy XLM and XRP. Being risk averse, this is likely not an option.

 

Time will tell the rest of the story.

 

LOL.   The doomsday prepper crowd has been warning  "disbelievers" like me about "the manure hitting the fan" for the last couple of decades, most loudly back in the Great Recession.   I've made a lot of money over that time by ignoring guys wearing tin-foil hats, so I see no reason to start listening to them just because the stock market has been down recently. 

 

 

 

 

[Warcodered]

5 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

If your investment strategy requires the entire world’s economy to completely collapse, it seems like a very poor investment strategy. Just saying…

I'm sure if the world economy collapses the digital Monopoly money will retain it's value somehow.

[TheCockSportif]

1 hour ago, Just Jack said:

 

The song by Squeeze? 

And, Christ.  Yeah, you're right.

[TheCockSportif]

12 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I'm sure if the world economy collapses the digital Monopoly money will retain it's value somehow.

If the world economy collapses, who will run the servers -- that manage crypto?

[Warcodered]

28 minutes ago, TheCockSportif said:

If the world economy collapses, who will run the servers -- that manage crypto?

If the world economy collapses who's going to run the actual sewers?

[TheCockSportif]

27 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

If the world economy collapses who's going to run the actual sewers?

So true.

[aristocrat]

I gotta admit the guy has confidence in this like I’ve never seen.  Like, flip the switch and everything is fundamentally changed and no bad things happen. So easy. I’m just curious if there’s a backup plan?

[TheCockSportif]

12 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

I gotta admit the guy has confidence in this like I’ve never seen.  Like, flip the switch and everything is fundamentally changed and no bad things happen. So easy. I’m just curious if there’s a backup plan?

I am certain that there is no backup plan, and I'm not trashing anybody.  It is what it is, crypto wise, that is.

[SoTier]

19 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

I gotta admit the guy has confidence in this like I’ve never seen.  Like, flip the switch and everything is fundamentally changed and no bad things happen. So easy. I’m just curious if there’s a backup plan?

 

True believers don't need backup plans.

[May Day 10]

Me and a friend got way into fallout 3 years ago.

 

Went to his house awhile back and he had a garbage bag full of bottle caps in his garage

[Teddy KGB]

It’s all over now right ?   Why are there still crypto commercials on tv ? 

[aristocrat]

Under 18k if it doesn’t hold next stop is 10k. Margin calls liquidation going on 

[Doc Brown]

House of cards is all it ever was.  Having said that, I might buy the dip if it gets below 9k.

[T&C]

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2022/06/18/bitcoin-drops-below--20-000-as-crypto-selloff-quickens

 

“There are real human victims here that are ordinary people.”

[SoTier]

 

Crypto in the 2020s seems to be where the stock market was in the 1920s: an unregulated investing "Wild West" where fortunes can be made overnight -- and lost in hours.   A wise investor might put a very small percentage of his/her funds into it but in its present unregulated state, crypto seems about on a par with gambling at a casino or race track.   Maybe the crypto collapse will put the brakes on the recent push by some financial companies to push crypto "investments" for 401ks and Roth IRAs. 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:52 PM, Doc Brown said:

House of cards is all it ever was.  Having said that, I might buy the dip if it gets below 9k.

I didn't have a ton into crypto but I really wish I had stuck with my plan to invest and forget about it.  Instead after 2 years of watching abysmal charts I cashed out well before peak in this latest cycle.   

 

If you can afford to wait 3 or 4 years, an investment at $20k or below is likely to net you a good return if history is any indicator.  Granted you might still lose half if you buy in today before you get back to even.  What gives me pause is that the crypto markets were supposed to be inverse to stock market movement or at least not correlated.  Instead we see crypto crashing during times of high inflation, increased commodity prices, and global instability.  Is that a result of the large influx of institutional cash into the game?  I don't know, I'm just a casual observer.

 

 

 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Crypto in the 2020s seems to be where the stock market was in the 1920s: an unregulated investing "Wild West" where fortunes can be made overnight -- and lost in hours.   A wise investor might put a very small percentage of his/her funds into it but in its present unregulated state, crypto seems about on a par with gambling at a casino or race track.   Maybe the crypto collapse will put the brakes on the recent push by some financial companies to push crypto "investments" for 401ks and Roth IRAs. 

 

 

Much easier to make money in crypto than a casino. Play the peaks and valleys. As long as it goes up and down there's easy money to be made.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Much easier to make money in crypto than a casino. Play the peaks and valleys. As long as it goes up and down there's easy money to be made.

 

For the ordinary person, I'm guessing that's unlikely.   Market timing in the stock market has never proven to be an effective long term strategy for individual investors, so I can't see the much more volatile crypto markets being better.   There are people who make good livings as professional gamblers at casinos but the average joe who wanders in off the street loses a lot more often than he wins.

[DrDawkinstein]

On 6/18/2022 at 4:14 PM, aristocrat said:

Under 18k if it doesn’t hold next stop is 10k. Margin calls liquidation going on 

 

And then bounced immediately back to $21k.

 

It's highly unlikely it ever goes back under $10k, just because at certain "discount" levels you will see a bunch of people buy in and send the price back up (which is exactly what we saw this weekend). The second it hit $17,500 a bunch of limit orders triggered and shot it back up.

 

If it ever somehow dropped to $10k or below (a whale selling 10,000BTC in a single shot), it would cause such a buying spree that I wouldnt be surprised to see it jump immediately back to $30k+ that same day.

 

13,000 holders crossed the threshold to owning 1 whole BTC this weekend, so there is plenty of life left in this experiment.

Edited June 20, 2022 by DrDawkinstein

[aristocrat]

On 6/20/2022 at 1:41 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And then bounced immediately back to $21k.

 

It's highly unlikely it ever goes back under $10k, just because at certain "discount" levels you will see a bunch of people buy in and send the price back up (which is exactly what we saw this weekend). The second it hit $17,500 a bunch of limit orders triggered and shot it back up.

 

If it ever somehow dropped to $10k or below (a whale selling 10,000BTC in a single shot), it would cause such a buying spree that I wouldnt be surprised to see it jump immediately back to $30k+ that same day.

 

13,000 holders crossed the threshold to owning 1 whole BTC this weekend, so there is plenty of life left in this experiment.

trying to defend 19k.  

[sherpa]

On 6/20/2022 at 1:41 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And then bounced immediately back to $21k.

 

In market parlance, that's called a dead cat bounce.

[Poleshifter]

When most of you guys talk about crypto, why do you only focus on Bitcoin? I know it's the first one, and maybe the only one most people are aware of. But it is backed by nothing but thin air. Of course it goes up and down, manipulated by the whales.

 

Do a bit of research and look at the few coins which can be considered "asset-backed digital assets". It is easier just to call them crypto, but XLM and XRP are functional in the new financial system.

 

Did you know that you can buy XRP today for 34 cents? It's an amazing value. XRP is still de-listed on many exchanges, but is available through Lobstr.

 

Open a Lobstr account, buy some XLM (from Coinbase or wherever) and send them to your Lobstr address. Swap some XLM for XRP, and you can soon have more money than you can imagine. Just spend even $50 or $100, and you will make some BIG money.

 

Or you can just keep riding the Bitcoin roller coaster, at least until completely goes off the tracks.

 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Poleshifter said:

When most of you guys talk about crypto, why do you only focus on Bitcoin? I know it's the first one, and maybe the only one most people are aware of. But it is backed by nothing but thin air. Of course it goes up and down, manipulated by the whales.

 

Do a bit of research and look at the few coins which can be considered "asset-backed digital assets". It is easier just to call them crypto, but XLM and XRP are functional in the new financial system.

 

Did you know that you can buy XRP today for 34 cents? It's an amazing value. XRP is still de-listed on many exchanges, but is available through Lobstr.

 

Open a Lobstr account, buy some XLM (from Coinbase or wherever) and send them to your Lobstr address. Swap some XLM for XRP, and you can soon have more money than you can imagine. Just spend even $50 or $100, and you will make some BIG money.

 

Or you can just keep riding the Bitcoin roller coaster, at least until completely goes off the tracks.

 

Wouldn't that just be an asset, the thing with actual value, just with crypto colored wrapping paper?

[Poleshifter]

22 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Wouldn't that just be an asset, the thing with actual value, just with crypto colored wrapping paper?

XRP is backed by gold. XLM is backed by silver.

 

Gold and silver are the assets.

 

Most people are not accustomed to crypto being backed by anything but hope.