Beerball Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/brown-belichick-going-take-rap-coin-toss?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/brown-belichick-going-take-rap-coin-toss?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yah So it was't even the GOAT coach, but a player. Nice of Belichick, huh? Edited December 27, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 So it was't even the GOAT coach, but a player. Nice of Belichick, huh? That's a former players take. (It happens to agree with mine so I posted it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Interesting thought. I would certainly rather play the Jets than the Steelers despite their loss to the Ravens somehow. I don't buy it. I think home field advantage throughout is prolly more important than facing either the Jets (who were giving throats a run for their money today, as usual) or the Steelers (who got embarrassed today and lost to the Pats week 1). If anything I'd rather face the Steelers aaaand have home field throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I really don't think it is that much of an advantage to get the ball first. Of course it looks terrible and backfired on him today, but there are some coaches who decide to kick first and end up winning the game and that is never talked about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I really don't think it is that much of an advantage to get the ball first. Of course it looks terrible and backfired on him today, but there are some coaches who decide to kick first and end up winning the game and that is never talked about it is fairly rare, and typically weather related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 it is fairly rare, and typically weather related Whether or not other coaches do it doesn't mean it's right or wrong. Statistically he was right on that 4th down call a couple years ago when everyone roasted him for going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Whether or not other coaches do it doesn't mean it's right or wrong. Where did I say anything about right or wrong? Perhaps you are replying to a different post than the one you intended to? I realize you like to be the smartest guy in the room, but, please don't put words in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 This isn't unprecedented. Belichick did it 2 years ago against the Broncos, and he wound up winning. He's even said that it's not a lock for him to kickoff if he wins the coin toss in OT (he said it after the new OT rules were implemented, which prompted some interesting discussions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 This isn't unprecedented. Belichick did it 2 years ago against the Broncos, and he wound up winning. He's even said that it's not a lock for him to kickoff if he wins the coin toss in OT (he said it after the new OT rules were implemented, which prompted some interesting discussions). Yeah, the link I posted above yours shows that he's done it a couple times which blows my "he was covering for his player" theory out of the water. Makes no sense to me if weather isn't a factor, but, he's done it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Any one see the defensive PI call that kept the Jets' winning drive alive? Dilfer was incredulous about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Any one see the defensive PI call that kept the Jets' winning drive alive? Dilfer was incredulous about it. It was the only penalty called against them all game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Watch Slater's reaction. He blew it, plain and simple. No way they deliberately chose to kick. He tried to have it changed and was denied by the official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I think it's a combination of this, and the fact that they just stopped them at the end of the 4th quarter. Maybe he thought the D would get a quick 3-and-out and he would just need a field goal to win. Maybe he didn't trust Brady to score a TD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 It was the only penalty called against them all game. But was it a good call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I don't buy it, think he's covering for his player. Agreed. Which makes him a great leader. Your employee messes up (unintentionally) you take the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Where did I say anything about right or wrong? Perhaps you are replying to a different post than the one you intended to? I realize you like to be the smartest guy in the room, but, please don't put words in my mouth.I'll reply again, since you deleted my last for being facetious about your tone... enjoy getting to send the barbs without retort, good sir. I wasn't saying YOU argued one or the other- I was just noting that it skewing one way or the other doesn't tie to whether this incident was the right or wrong call. You happened to be the last to post about what coaches had done in the past. Edited December 28, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I have no doubt Belly* wanted to kick off. Or, rather, he wanted to defend the east end of the field. But either he or his captain screwed the pooch. If you watch the video, even though the camera is still pointing at the coin, you can clearly hear the captain say they want to kick, then as the ref starts asking the Jets for their choice of which way they want to receive, the Pats* captain tries to say they want to kick going "this way." But it doesn't work like that. When you win the toss you have choose from either option A or option B. You can choose to either- Option A) - Kickoff or receive, or, Option B) - Defend a certain goal After you make your choice the other team gets to select their choice from the other option. Now, normally when a team elects to receive the ref looks to the other team and asks which way they want to kick. This isn't a double choice, they're kicking because the opponent has already chosen to receive (option A) and the ref is actually only asking for their answer of which goal they want to defend (option B). In this case, since all 3 offensive touchdowns in regulation were scored in the same end, it's likely Belly* decided they would rather defend an end, which, by default, would mean kicking off. But the Pats* captain didn't quite understand that he can't elect to kickoff and defend an end. He thought he could say we want to kickoff going this way, but that would be choosing both option A and option B. He should have elected to defend the certain end (option B), at which point the ref would have asked the Jesters if they wanted to kick or receive. As it was the ref (correctly) took the captain's first stated choice - to kickoff. And as the ref was asking the Jets which way they wanted to receive you can hear the Pats* captain trying to also trying to say, "going this way." And his confusion is evident immediately after as you can hear him saying, "we won, don't we get to choose?" Ultimately it's Belly's* fault for not preparing the player well enough. Or maybe he did but the player blew it anyway. Either way Belly* was probably right wanting to defend the east end as that's the direction every offensive TD in the game was scored, including the winner. So he figured the worst they would do is give up a FG on the first drive. But they blew it and got neither the ball nor the correct direction. Afterward Belly* is also smart enough to know nothing good would come from saying it was the player who screwed up, so he keeps it short and takes the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yeah, the link I posted above yours shows that he's done it a couple times which blows my "he was covering for his player" theory out of the water. Makes no sense to me if weather isn't a factor, but, he's done it before. The only thing I can think of is field position. If you have faith in your defense stopping them from the 20, then they punt, and you maybe get it at the 40, and only need a field goal to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) The only thing I can think of is field position. If you have faith in your defense stopping them from the 20, then they punt, and you maybe get it at the 40, and only need a field goal to win. If you're looking at it from an objective probability standpoint, you'd want to know how frequently a Jets possession results in a touchdown. I don't know that, but I do know that they scored a TD on 2 of 9 possessions in today's game prior to the Overtime. So ... maybe Belichick is thinking the Jets have a 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 chance of ending it without them ever getting the ball. And that's certainly a good bet, since the Jets also went 3 and out on a few occasions, which would result in a punt from their own 20-something yard line. If that nets 40 yards, the Pats get the ball on their own 35, and they can pick up 35 yards, kick a field goal, and go home. So this was certainly not an irrational decision. In fact, I think it was the right one, and I think Belichick made it (and Slater just confused the hell out of himself when he realized what Belichick told him to do). EDIT: Where the Patriots went wrong -- and I'm sure of this one -- is when they kicked the PAT rather than going for 2 when they tied it up at the end of the 4th. NE hasn't gone for 2 in a long time - 2 years? Is that right? But you've got to assume their offense would be considerably better than the league average, which hovers around 50%. So that's maybe a 55-60% chance of winning it on the spot, without the quirks that come with NFL overtime rules. But even Belichick (supposedly immune from the effects of criticism) shies away from that all or nothing proposition, even if it would have been the smart one here. Edited December 28, 2015 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 The Hoodie and his band of cheating orcs have 4 titles and advance to the AFC Title game at worst every season. Everyone loses a few here and there. This game did not hurt them at all if they beat Miami. Literally meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Dog Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Who would you rather face in the playoffs? Jets or Steelers? I'd kick too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I saw this and I think the official blew it. I heard the official say "you want to kick" or some variation of that, and I believe the Patriots guy thought he said "you want the kick", and responded with "yes we want to kick that way" thinking they were going to get the kick. The official should have never suggested an option. Blown call, and the pats fans are going to whine a lot now. The officials are out to get them you know. I understand your point, but it has come out Belicheck told him he wanted to kick as he believed his defense could hold Fitz, and then they would only have to go a short field for a FG and win. He out thought himself, vs. just taking the damn ball. Stupid call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Who would you rather face in the playoffs? Jets or Steelers? I'd kick too This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 It seems in Pat land the Karma train is beginning to knock. Chooo choooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) My Facebook feed is filled with Pats fans blaming the ref for tricking the Pats into making the wrong call, LOL. Can't admit they screwed up. BTW, how many coin flips do the Pats win? 95%? Edited December 28, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I understand your point, but it has come out Belicheck told him he wanted to kick as he believed his defense could hold Fitz, and then they would only have to go a short field for a FG and win. He out thought himself, vs. just taking the damn ball. Stupid call. I think the reason he did it is because Vollmer had gone down and their o-line is possibly the worst in the league right now because of the injuries. They were more likely to have a real chance at a fg, not a td, and so he took his chances with his defense. It's logical, but it didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Does anyone have the link to the OT coin toss from the Pats/Jets game? Thanks The Hoodie and his band of cheating orcs have 4 titles and advance to the AFC Title game at worst every season. Everyone loses a few here and there. This game did not hurt them at all if they beat Miami. Literally meaningless. Meaningless yes- however the Pats are more vulnerable now then possibly ever before. A first round knockout in the playoffs would be lovely to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000610148/Confusion-over-OT-coin-toss-in-Jets-Patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 [attachment=4040:image.jpegThat's funny (at least to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I think the reason he did it is because Vollmer had gone down and their o-line is possibly the worst in the league right now because of the injuries. They were more likely to have a real chance at a fg, not a td, and so he took his chances with his defense. It's logical, but it didn't work. Dave- your probably right. Who cares as they lost. It's always a good Monday when we wake up and the Pats lost to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Dave- your probably right. Who cares as they lost. It's always a good Monday when we wake up and the Pats lost to anyone. yep! I know I'll probably be disappointed, but if Vollmer stays out for long they could be facing a one-and-done. Their line is terrible right now. Just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I bet he'll be worrying about that the entire time he's heading to his 7th consecutive division championship ... With a devastated roster he still made it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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