OCinBuffalo Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 We have to be better than these guys. I don't need to link anything, youtube is full of 1985 Bears highlights. Google is your friend. I have more than enough to prove the 1985 Bears are the best, so don't bother, and, that's not what this thread is about. But.... IF we are going to use the 1985 Bears D as a measuring tool, we have to do it with a few caveats and nuances. First, the rules have changed. You can see that in the every youtube you watch, as the Bears are headshotting everybody on the field, especially the QB(Joe Ferguson playing for Lions...looks dead). It's not just headshots, another reason the Bears are the best is: they created the need for rule changes to help the O, all over the field, especially in the secondary. The Bears got away with what would be instant penalties now, yes, but, they also are the reason those penalties were created. There are lots of things to consider, but, this thread is about swinging for the fences, and fun. So, let's look at the stats we need to be in the ballpark of the 1985 Bears: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 198 Yds/G: 258.4 Sacks: 64 INTs: 34 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 82.4 Last year for us: Record: 9-7 Points Allowed: 289(#1 = SEA, 254) Yds/G: 312.2(#1 = SEA, 267.1) Sacks: 54(#1) INTs: 19(#1 = SF, 23) Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 106.4 (#1 = DET, 69.3) As you can see, we have a ways to go(and so does SEA) to even be in range of the 1985 Bears stats. However, given the rule changes, it might make sense for us to look at adopting some sort of adjustments. In closing, there is one stat from last year that = the 1985 Bears! 16 Passing TDs allowed on the season. As I have said many, many times, Defense always starts at the back, not the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 It looks like the points allowed average for the league in 1985 was 344.5, in 2014 it was 361.4. That's a 5% increase. So, if we apply that to what the Bears allowed in 1985(198 pts) the Bills in 2015 would need to be near 208. That's a bit of a way to go. Yards per game average for the league has increased roughly by 5% as well so the Bills would need to be at 271 YPG, which Seattle eclipsed in 2014. Average sacks in the league per team have gone down by 11%. I looked at 2013 as well and those sack numbers are down about the same amount as well. So the Bills aren't far off where they would need to be to compare to the 85' Bears. They would need 56 sacks. Interceptions have done down as well, by 34%. The Bills would need to intercept 22 balls. Rushing yards per game has gone down by 10% so the Bills would need at about 74 YPG. So here they are all together: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 208 Yds/G: 271 Sacks: 56 INTs: 22 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I watched a replay yesterday or the '85 Superbowl against the Pats. Wow. That Bears defense was Baaaaaad! Seemed like every play in the first half that I watched was for negative yards or a turnover. Even got a view of young Rex on the sidelines. McMahon is still a goofball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Now it is before my time so I might be well off base.... but wasn't the '86 Bears defense statistically better than the '85 D? Sure I have heard that somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) How does the 2000 Ravens D stack up? Ok, I did my own research: 12-4 W-L 165 Points Allowed 247.9 Yards Allowed/Game 60.6 Rushing Yards/Game 23 INT (but 49 total turnovers) 35 Sacks Pretty damn good Edited June 26, 2015 by eball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How does the 2000 Ravens D stack up? Ok, I did my own research: 12-4 W-L 165 Points Allowed 247.9 Yards Allowed/Game 60.6 Rushing Yards/Game 23 INT (but 49 total turnovers) 35 Sacks Pretty damn good Wow. I'd be interested in a comparison of their defensive players that year, starters and backups, compared to our projected defense this coming year. Just to discuss who has the edge player for player in our opinions. Those numbers are incredible, yet I can't really think of who they had at the time on defense. Lewis, Reed, Bart Scott (maybe?) come to mind. I don't think they had Ngata yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Chris McAlister and Corey Fuller were the corners from memory (or maybe that was too early?). I think I heard McAlister had been another one of the people helping out on the coaching internship thing with the Bills along with Andre Reed. Edited June 26, 2015 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) We have to be better than these guys. I don't need to link anything, youtube is full of 1985 Bears highlights. Google is your friend. I have more than enough to prove the 1985 Bears are the best, so don't bother, and, that's not what this thread is about. But.... IF we are going to use the 1985 Bears D as a measuring tool, we have to do it with a few caveats and nuances. First, the rules have changed. You can see that in the every youtube you watch, as the Bears are headshotting everybody on the field, especially the QB(Joe Ferguson playing for Lions...looks dead). It's not just headshots, another reason the Bears are the best is: they created the need for rule changes to help the O, all over the field, especially in the secondary. The Bears got away with what would be instant penalties now, yes, but, they also are the reason those penalties were created. There are lots of things to consider, but, this thread is about swinging for the fences, and fun. So, let's look at the stats we need to be in the ballpark of the 1985 Bears: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 198 Yds/G: 258.4 Sacks: 64 INTs: 34 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 82.4 Last year for us: Record: 9-7 Points Allowed: 289(#1 = SEA, 254) Yds/G: 312.2(#1 = SEA, 267.1) Sacks: 54(#1) INTs: 19(#1 = SF, 23) Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 106.4 (#1 = DET, 69.3) As you can see, we have a ways to go(and so does SEA) to even be in range of the 1985 Bears stats. However, given the rule changes, it might make sense for us to look at adopting some sort of adjustments. In closing, there is one stat from last year that = the 1985 Bears! 16 Passing TDs allowed on the season. As I have said many, many times, Defense always starts at the back, not the front. So the Bears success was about studs like Duerson, Fencik, Frazier, and Richardson? And not about guys like Singletary, Dent, McMichael, Marshal, Perry, Wilson, and Hampton? Yeah, ok. A dominate front 7 can make any DBs look great. The same cannot be said about dominate DBs for the front 7. But to your main point, yeah they were unbelievable and so were the Ravens as pointed out above. Edited June 26, 2015 by Mark80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 It looks like the points allowed average for the league in 1985 was 344.5, in 2014 it was 361.4. That's a 5% increase. So, if we apply that to what the Bears allowed in 1985(198 pts) the Bills in 2015 would need to be near 208. That's a bit of a way to go. Yards per game average for the league has increased roughly by 5% as well so the Bills would need to be at 271 YPG, which Seattle eclipsed in 2014. Average sacks in the league per team have gone down by 11%. I looked at 2013 as well and those sack numbers are down about the same amount as well. So the Bills aren't far off where they would need to be to compare to the 85' Bears. They would need 56 sacks. Interceptions have done down as well, by 34%. The Bills would need to intercept 22 balls. Rushing yards per game has gone down by 10% so the Bills would need at about 74 YPG. So here they are all together: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 208 Yds/G: 271 Sacks: 56 INTs: 22 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 74 Very well done there, OC. One additional caveat is that the salary cap wasn't adopted until '94. That makes it even tougher to replicate that kind of success - and makes the 2000 Ravens even more impressive (as much as it pains this Cleveland native to say it). I hope the Bills can keep a dominating defense together for many years, but other than retaining up our own I want to see the focus on improving the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. How did that Ravens team even lose 4 games? I wonder if the losses were to other great defenses who were able to overwhelm the Raven's offense and keep it close. The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. Let's see after this year! Who knows, maybe Rex really is as good as advertised and can take this D to a level like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How did that Ravens team even lose 4 games? I wonder if the losses were to other great defenses who were able to overwhelm the Raven's offense and keep it close. In each of their 4 losses they were held to 6 points or fewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 They will also need to make a music video if they want to be better than that Bears team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How did that Ravens team even lose 4 games? I wonder if the losses were to other great defenses who were able to overwhelm the Raven's offense and keep it close. They didn't lose 4 games to great defenses...they had one of the all-time worst offenses...their defense was dominating enough to overcome the completely inept offense. This is the blueprint for what the Bills are trying to do, I think...though I don't think our offense will be near as awful. I do distinctly remember, when the playoffs started that year, almost nobody took the Ravens seriously...there were those saying that Billick would be fired when the season was over, because his offense (his specialty) was so atrocious. As I recall, late October, they lost 3 games in a row, and scored a total of about 12 points, but only gave up something like 30 in those 3 games. Tony Banks started the first half of the season and was awful...he lost his job to Dilfer, who was only marginally less awful. Shannon Sharpe was their only receiving threat, while their offense really depended on Jamal Lewis, who, at that point, was solid, not spectacular...young Priest Holmes as his back-up.... Of course, as you recall, Rex Ryan was the D-line coach on that team. He has seen it first hand, how to win with a team like this...I think he has been trying to re-create that magic ever since...the 2015 Bills may be his best team as head coach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 They will also need to make a music video if they want to be better than that Bears team IMO, Superbowl Shuffle is one of the finest musical recordings ever. Sneaky fact, McMahon wasn't really that good. He was the original Trent Dilfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'd say his 2010 Jets team has a slight edge over our current team due to the fact that they had a great defense but also had a great offensive line. It opened up the running game and set up play action for the passing game.(I think they ran for almost 600 yards against us in the two combined games we play against them that year) Our offensive line is still a huge question mark and most likely won't be as dominant as that one. Yeah, those Jets teams might have had the best oline in the NFL. We have a ways to go. That said, not having Marrone is an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Talent wise that 2010 Jets o-line is better, at least on paper, than what we have... but let's wait and see our guys on the field for a bit first.... we have two coaches here in Kromer and Roman who have got the run game going everywhere they have been and they haven't always had spectacular o-line talent to work with. It is fair to say that it is a question mark at this stage but it is a unit that could have a big jump in its play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I hope so. Time will tell, Marrone gets a ton of flack on this board and I agree that he's a douche, but he did get the team to its first winning season in over 10 years. He had some what of a clue on how to coach even if the players disagreed with a lot of what he did. Eh, our defense (which he had little to do with) got us to our first winning season. Basically, our entire offense regressed. Marrone's best "coaching" talent was picking DCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I hope so. Time will tell, Marrone gets a ton of flack on this board and I agree that he's a douche, but he did get the team to its first winning season in over 10 years. He had some what of a clue on how to coach even if the players disagreed with a lot of what he did. I discussed this on another thread last week - I am not convinced he showed here he is a good "coach" as such but he certainly showed himself to be able to motivate a group and get guys pulling in the same direction - that is why we were able to win. Well, that and the appointment of an excellent D-Coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I hope so. Time will tell, Marrone gets a ton of flack on this board and I agree that he's a douche, but he did get the team to its first winning season in over 10 years. He had some what of a clue on how to coach even if the players disagreed with a lot of what he did. "Winning season" (cough) -- another way to put it is that Marrone took a supremely talented defensive team and got them to .500. Whoopee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level.IMO, those teams were so good you can't really predict any other team to be on their level (kind of like saying "the next Michael Jordon"), but I do think the Bills at least have the potential to be that good. They have the talent and they have the coaching. A lot of things have to come together perfectly to have a year like those teams did, but at this point in the off-season, I think the Bills have done everything they can to be that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I hope that's the case. Not sure its that simple, but we will find out. The roster has enough talent to win 10 to 11 games if one of the QB's step up. If a Quarterback "steps up" I think we win 12-13. We have the potential to win 10 without a Quarterback playing anything above mediocre. We won 9 with mediocre play last year and we couldn't run that ball at all. If we can run the ball even just a bit and the defense doesn't drop off then anything above mediocre should get us to the play-offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. KD is right. Fortunately, I don't think we need our D to be that level to get to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 KD is right. Fortunately, I don't think we need our D to be that level to get to the playoffs. Nobody saw the 2000 Ravens D coming. They were good in 1999 but gave up over 100 more points on an 8-8 team. They were awful in 1998. The more I compare the Ravens of those years with the Bills, the more excited I get about what could happen this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 We have to be better than these guys. I don't need to link anything, youtube is full of 1985 Bears highlights. Google is your friend. I have more than enough to prove the 1985 Bears are the best, so don't bother, and, that's not what this thread is about. But.... IF we are going to use the 1985 Bears D as a measuring tool, we have to do it with a few caveats and nuances. First, the rules have changed. You can see that in the every youtube you watch, as the Bears are headshotting everybody on the field, especially the QB(Joe Ferguson playing for Lions...looks dead). It's not just headshots, another reason the Bears are the best is: they created the need for rule changes to help the O, all over the field, especially in the secondary. The Bears got away with what would be instant penalties now, yes, but, they also are the reason those penalties were created. There are lots of things to consider, but, this thread is about swinging for the fences, and fun. So, let's look at the stats we need to be in the ballpark of the 1985 Bears: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 198 Yds/G: 258.4 Sacks: 64 INTs: 34 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 82.4 Last year for us: Record: 9-7 Points Allowed: 289(#1 = SEA, 254) Yds/G: 312.2(#1 = SEA, 267.1) Sacks: 54(#1) INTs: 19(#1 = SF, 23) Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 106.4 (#1 = DET, 69.3) As you can see, we have a ways to go(and so does SEA) to even be in range of the 1985 Bears stats. However, given the rule changes, it might make sense for us to look at adopting some sort of adjustments. In closing, there is one stat from last year that = the 1985 Bears! 16 Passing TDs allowed on the season. As I have said many, many times, Defense always starts at the back, not the front. The rules have changed a LOT since that bears team.......defenses dont get away with the things they got away with in that era..... Gonna be tough to beat those stats in todays climate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The rules have changed a LOT since that bears team.......defenses dont get away with the things they got away with in that era..... Gonna be tough to beat those stats in todays climate Good point John. That's why the early Gilmore hate was so stupid. Playing corner in today's NFL is one of the physically difficult things to do in all of sports. Gilmore would be a HOF type player with the old rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Nobody saw the 2000 Ravens D coming. They were good in 1999 but gave up over 100 more points on an 8-8 team. They were awful in 1998. The more I compare the Ravens of those years with the Bills, the more excited I get about what could happen this season. Two thingsI actually saw that Ravens team coming and told a buddy of mine before the 2000 season to take them as his SB pick. He didn't and to this day always asks me who I like. I haven't been right since. I had the privilege of being In NO for the Bears Pats Super Bowl. Sitting in the Superdome was awesome as a young man. The 85 Bears were more like movie stars than football players. That D was nasty, they told you they were going to kick the crap out of you and then they did. I hope our bills D plays with that kind of swagger and backs it up, I have some confidence they will swing a Ryan is at the helm again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The heights this current bills team can reach depends on if we can be good gamblers in all phases of play. If we can blitz well, play action for points and big plays, and have bog kick and punt returns we can beat anyone. I think we have a top 3 roster, but we need about average qb play to not ruin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) I'm not so sure our talent level is that far off from theirs, except for their linebackers. Id take our front 4, their LBs, secondaries are close. Edited June 27, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. I totally agree with all of the above. Would be nice to get into company, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I totally agree with all of the above. Would be nice to get into company, thoughI think the 2002 bucs deserve honorable mention Sapp, rice, Brooks, barber, Lynch... they could bring it and with Brooks ability to drop back they were versatile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The difference in those teams and the Bills, they had true NTs in Sam Adams and the Fridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I think the 2002 bucs deserve honorable mention Sapp, rice, Brooks, barber, Lynch... they could bring it and with Brooks ability to drop back they were versatile. Absolutely they are right in the mix probably would have them at #3 behind 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens. 2013 Seahawks are right in the mix too. I love Sammy Watkins and have no problem with that pick but part of me wonders if we would have taken Mack instead that our defense could be on this level. Our front 7 would have been insane with Mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 It's too hard to compare these teams as different eras and different rules. I wonder if we could be even better than the 99 Bills. The kill shots over the middle, defenseless receiver rules and so on. What really matters is can we be the by far best defense this year and demoRalize opponents. That would be fun. Can we have a fantastic power running game? Can we hand a QB such a manageable game with those two points he even looks better when he gets to use these tools? Can we have a big change to a dominant offensive line? I know I'm excited and can't wait for September. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I think the continuity thats been maintained will have the Bills Def pretty confident. and with the current coaching staff fielding an aggressive style of play , i might wager The Bills will confuse and then intimidate. and that has value. The game has changed and those bears were just otherworldly. But thats a mighty fine point for Thurman to set the bar with our guys! Bills used to tackle very nicely. last year i saw Dareus bringing all his weight down on the QB. and A Williams come across the field full speed to take some ones head clean off. Thats how they need to play. and I wish we kept Spikes for that reason. A Williams and Duke are both hitters. when the are playing the run one of them needs to come down hill hard. i would like to see the same from Bradham and Brown when stuffing that gap. Hit it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 There is a defensive stat out there that doesn't get tracked like INTs or pts/gm that I'd like to see followed (and I'm not talking about 3rd down defense); it's 3 and outs. How many times a D forces the O to go 1, 2, 3, punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 We have to be better than these guys. I don't need to link anything, youtube is full of 1985 Bears highlights. Google is your friend. I have more than enough to prove the 1985 Bears are the best, so don't bother, and, that's not what this thread is about. But.... IF we are going to use the 1985 Bears D as a measuring tool, we have to do it with a few caveats and nuances. First, the rules have changed. You can see that in the every youtube you watch, as the Bears are headshotting everybody on the field, especially the QB(Joe Ferguson playing for Lions...looks dead). It's not just headshots, another reason the Bears are the best is: they created the need for rule changes to help the O, all over the field, especially in the secondary. The Bears got away with what would be instant penalties now, yes, but, they also are the reason those penalties were created. There are lots of things to consider, but, this thread is about swinging for the fences, and fun. So, let's look at the stats we need to be in the ballpark of the 1985 Bears: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 198 Yds/G: 258.4 Sacks: 64 INTs: 34 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 82.4 Last year for us: Record: 9-7 Points Allowed: 289(#1 = SEA, 254) Yds/G: 312.2(#1 = SEA, 267.1) Sacks: 54(#1) INTs: 19(#1 = SF, 23) Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 106.4 (#1 = DET, 69.3) As you can see, we have a ways to go(and so does SEA) to even be in range of the 1985 Bears stats. However, given the rule changes, it might make sense for us to look at adopting some sort of adjustments. In closing, there is one stat from last year that = the 1985 Bears! 16 Passing TDs allowed on the season. As I have said many, many times, Defense always starts at the back, not the front. rules are different now. cannot compare to teams 30 years ago. the NFL is vastly different than in the early 80's . not worth pursuing this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MClem06 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't know if anyone has posted on here about the 2002 Tampa Bay Bucs team that won superbowl 37 against the raiders. Their D had 5 picks and 2 went for touchdowns. The QB at the time was Brad Johnson , a servicable slightly above average QB. In that superbowl, the #1 ranked offense(OAK) went up against the #1 ranked Defense (TB) Johnson's Stats in the SB: 18/31 2 TD 1 INT for 215 yards. He didn't win the game for them just managed it. That team also relied on a ground n pound game with Michael Pittman and Mike Allstott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. Though the question is can the Bills get to that level? I think the talent is on the field to get there. Now it is scheme, desire, a little help from the offense (limited turnovers and decent time of possession) and luck (guys staying healthy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 86 Giants belong in this conversation 14.8ppg 297.3ypg 80.2rush 217.1pass 59sacks 31INT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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