The Wiz Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) What do you think Whaley/Rex tell EJ behind closed doors? What do you think EJ has told Rex/Whaley behind closed doors? EJ's made, along with others, some very telling statements how Marrone didn't work on player development and even took plays out of the playbook. Edited June 15, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Correct. But that's why context is important. No matter what Whaley may or may not have said in January, nobody should be under any illusion that there's a front office mandate to resurrect EJ. well really that position absolutely must be fostered and pursued. because we aint got much in the pantry. better put it in the pan and see how it turns out. not an either or though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) What do you think EJ has told Rex/Whaley behind closed doors? EJ's made, along with others, some very telling statements how Marrone didn't work on player development and even took plays out of the playbook. Marrone took plays out of the playbook because EJ couldn't grasp the offense. Anywho, what's EJ gonna say? Marrone tried to develop me but I just stink too much? He may, like many, know it's just easier to blame the guy who is no longer around. Edited June 15, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Marrone took plays out of the playbook because EJ couldn't grasp the offense. Anywho, what's EJ gonna say? Marrone tried to develop me but I just stink too much? He may, like many, know it's just easier to blame the guy who is no longer around. Yea, you know Fred Jackson is the type of guy to throw someone under the bus for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Is anyone under that illusion? "I'd really like to see what we have with EJ given some proper coaching" is not the same thing as "if you take this job you need to play EJ." I absolutely believe that a part of every HC interview included "tell me what you think about EJ and what would you do to develop him." That's not a mandate. Look a few posts above. Some people are still convinced that Whaley mandated a resurrection project for EJ for every coaching candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yea, you know Fred Jackson is the type of guy to throw someone under the bus for no reason. Link to where Fred said anything about Marrone developing players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The crusade is alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Marrone took plays out of the playbook because EJ couldn't grasp the offense. Anywho, what's EJ gonna say? Marrone tried to develop me but I just stink too much? He may, like many, know it's just easier to blame the guy who is no longer around. This is just wild speculation. There are stories out of Florida State that EJ was only asked to scan half the field. Having a problem going quickly through progressions - if true - is not the same as saying the guy can't grasp a complicated NFL offense. By all accounts, EJ is a playbook junkie. I seriously doubt Marrone took plays out of the playbook because EJ couldn't grasp the offense. If there was a problem with players grasping and executing the offense, my hunch it was because (as we've heard) the coaches weren't always aligned. Edited June 16, 2015 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 This is just wild speculation. There are stories out of Florida State that EJ only needed to scan half the field. Having a problem going quickly through progressions - if true - is not the same as saying the guy can't grasp a complicated NFL offense. By all accounts, EJ is a playbook junkie. I seriously doubt Marrone took plays out of the playbook because EJ couldn't grasp the offense. If there was a problem with players grasping and executing the offense, my hunch it was because (as we've heard) the coaches weren't always aligned. So wild. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/12/9/5191390/buffalo-bills-to-scale-back-offense-for-ej-manuel Following an abysmal performance in Tampa Bay, Buffalo Bills head coach Doug Marrone told reporters on Sunday afternoon that he plans on scaling back his offense a bit for beleaguered starting quarterback EJ Manuel. "We've been giving him more and more, and now it's a point where you have to re-evaluate that," Marrone said Sunday. "We've been going fast with his progression, and now we just have to look at it and get him started again. And it's not starting over, don't get me wrong. We have to look to see what we can do, and probably cut down what we're doing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Scaling back offenses for struggling rookie QBs is a foreign concept in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Marrone took plays out of the playbook because EJ couldn't grasp the offense. Anywho, what's EJ gonna say? Marrone tried to develop me but I just stink too much? He may, like many, know it's just easier to blame the guy who is no longer around. Did Marrone put plays back when Orton came aboard?? If so, then offense still sucked!! I believe FredEx said in an interview that Marrone undermined Hackett's ability to run his offense. And I'm paraphrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Scaling back offenses for struggling rookie QBs is a foreign concept in the NFL. I do enjoy a good strawman Gug. Did Marrone put plays back when Orton came aboard?? If so, then offense still sucked!! I believe FredEx said in an interview that Marrone undermined Hackett's ability to run his offense. And I'm paraphrasing. That may very well be true, I think I did read something like that. It's irrelevant though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So wild. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/12/9/5191390/buffalo-bills-to-scale-back-offense-for-ej-manuel Following an abysmal performance in Tampa Bay, Buffalo Bills head coach Doug Marrone told reporters on Sunday afternoon that he plans on scaling back his offense a bit for beleaguered starting quarterback EJ Manuel. "We've been giving him more and more, and now it's a point where you have to re-evaluate that," Marrone said Sunday. "We've been going fast with his progression, and now we just have to look at it and get him started again. And it's not starting over, don't get me wrong. We have to look to see what we can do, and probably cut down what we're doing." Actually you are concluding its a "grasp the playbook" issue, while is very well could have been "not executing certain groups of plays well". Or any other number of things, this was also in the midst of that hair brained no huddle offense. You're making it sound like the issue was he's a dummy, which I don't buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Actually you are concluding its a "grasp the playbook" issue, while is very well could have been "not executing certain groups of plays well". Or any other number of things, this was also in the midst of that hair brained no huddle offense. You're making it sound like the issue was he's a dummy, which I don't buy. I said, "the offense." Marrone took plays out of the playbook because EJ couldn't grasp the offense. Anywho, what's EJ gonna say? Marrone tried to develop me but I just stink too much? He may, like many, know it's just easier to blame the guy who is no longer around. Not, EJ couldn't read the field. Not, EJ couldn't remember his plays. However, with all that being said, you don't "scale back" something that is going well. Edited June 16, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So wild. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/12/9/5191390/buffalo-bills-to-scale-back-offense-for-ej-manuel Following an abysmal performance in Tampa Bay, Buffalo Bills head coach Doug Marrone told reporters on Sunday afternoon that he plans on scaling back his offense a bit for beleaguered starting quarterback EJ Manuel. "We've been giving him more and more, and now it's a point where you have to re-evaluate that," Marrone said Sunday. "We've been going fast with his progression, and now we just have to look at it and get him started again. And it's not starting over, don't get me wrong. We have to look to see what we can do, and probably cut down what we're doing." Your reading what you want to into that I do enjoy a good strawman Gug. That may very well be true, I think I did read something like that. It's irrelevant though. Its not irrelevant and its not the first time I have heard that Hackett might not have been that bad of a OC but that Marrone was having an adverse effect on his playcalling and being involved too much. That is DEF relevant when it comes to the QB position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Your reading what you want to into that Its not irrelevant and its not the first time I have heard that Hackett might not have been that bad of a OC but that Marrone was having an adverse effect on his playcalling and being involved too much. That is DEF relevant when it comes to the QB position How? Do you deny the offense was scaled back? It's irrelevant because I don't care and it's not what I'm talking about. One poster thought I was "wildly speculating" and I clearly was not. Marrone scaled back the offense. Period. I don't care if Jay Cutler one time had his offense scaled back too, it's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You people crack me the hell up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 How? Do you deny the offense was scaled back? It's irrelevant because I don't care and it's not what I'm talking about. One poster thought I was "wildly speculating" and I clearly was not. Marrone scaled back the offense. Period. I don't care if Jay Cutler one time had his offense scaled back too, it's irrelevant. So your gonna hang onto that bone are you.......trying to make some kind of point of a OC simplifying an offense for a young QB Good luck with that....make sure to feel that way about almost all the other OC's and how they handle their QBs on other NFL teams as well.... Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So is this the new EJ Manuel thread? Hilarious few pages. Good work guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So your gonna hang onto that bone are you.......trying to make some kind of point of a OC simplifying an offense for a young QB Good luck with that....make sure to feel that way about almost all the other OC's and how they handle their QBs on other NFL teams as well.... Christ I am not hanging on anything. I am stating a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I am not hanging on anything. I am stating a fact. Marrone is now the OL coach of the Jaguars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Marrone is now the OL coach of the Jaguars.Yes. But he is also assistant HC. Edited June 16, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Microchan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes. But he is also assistant HC. You know very well that an "assistant HC" title plus $3.75 will get you a medium cup of coffee at Starbucks. Gus Bradley is Marrone's friend and threw him a bone -- I think it also makes it more difficult for another team to hire him away (like that would happen). The truth is that Marrone significantly overvalued his worth as a HC and was rather rudely smacked down by the NFL organizations searching for a coach this winter. We know Marrone didn't like EJ. It's plain as day. Was that because he knew EJ would never be "the man" or because he is the type of coach who can't develop a young player? That's the question we don't know the answer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Yes. But he is also assistant HC. That sounds like Dwight from "The Office" bragging about a title. I have always maintained that if Marrone truly feels that EJ Manuel sucks then he will eventually become a great QB for the Bills. Marrone is that kind of clueless. Edited June 16, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Microchan http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/173739-denver-fan-message-board-microscopes-lives/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Yes. But he is also assistant HC. because they felt sorry for his dumb azz The Wiz, on 15 Jun 2015 - 8:13 PM, said: Yea, you know Fred Jackson is the type of guy to throw someone under the bus for no reason. Link to where Fred said anything about Marrone developing players? you do understand sarcasm of a sort. no? Fred IMO is all class and would never throw someone under a bus Did Marrone put plays back when Orton came aboard?? If so, then offense still sucked!! I believe FredEx said in an interview that Marrone undermined Hackett's ability to run his offense. And I'm paraphrasing. :worthy: Vanilla ice cream for all! WRT the linked scaled back O FACT - Dec 9, 2013 that is 12 or 13 weeks into the season. why did he wait so long? Did you also note Moron only called 17 rushing plays in the Tampa game???!!! The Bills, Manuel and their (likely) scaled back offense will take on a Jacksonville Jaguars outfit next Sunday FTR EJ won that Jax game Edited June 16, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Wow, haven't checked in here a while. I see that axe is still getting plenty of attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I am not hanging on anything. I am stating a fact. FACT the offense under EJ was ranked 22nd in the NFL while the the offense under KO was ranked 29nd in the NFL Wow, haven't checked in here a while. I see that axe is still getting plenty of attention. from a quick glance there seems to be but one axe grinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You are dead on on the importance of coaching to the development of a QB. If the coaching mattered much, you would expect to see certain coaches developing multiple excellent QBs. But there is almost no evidence of that. It is much more often that an excellent QB and a coach who knows how to utilize an excellent QB end up in the same place at the same time. Steve young and Brett Favre are both fine examples of coaching/development time and the way they impact qb development. Look at what belli got outta Cassell. Then see what the rest of the league had. Look at Alex smiths dismal career until decent coaching came into his life. The combo of the top guy in the offensive coaching hierarchy and the qb are everything. Yeah if one is not good enough it may not work, but you can't tell where the problem truly lies until you change one of those pieces and re evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Steve young and Brett Favre are both fine examples of coaching/development time and the way they impact qb development. Look at what belli got outta Cassell. Then see what the rest of the league had. Look at Alex smiths dismal career until decent coaching came into his life. The combo of the top guy in the offensive coaching hierarchy and the qb are everything. Yeah if one is not good enough it may not work, but you can't tell where the problem truly lies until you change one of those pieces and re evaluate. There's some QBs that are great no matter what. There's more QBs that are either good or bad depending on coaching and surrounding talent. There's some QBs that are (NFL)bad no matter what. I feel like a lot of fans think every QB is either A or C, but the reality is, most QBs are B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes. But he is also assistant HC. Yup effectively demoted to a lesser post with one of the worst franchises in the NFL. That should look good on the resume. I was never sure what they had in Marrone.... But I can't point to one young player he groomed or that I expect would credit him for the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 also thanks to Moron CJ Spiller never reached his potential either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yup effectively demoted to a lesser post with one of the worst franchises in the NFL. That should look good on the resume. I was never sure what they had in Marrone.... But I can't point to one young player he groomed or that I expect would credit him for the same... There wasn't much evidence in his time with the Bills that he was a good coach. He didn't improve the O-line despite taking a more hands on role and he didn't appear to identify ways of developing others on his time - although I accept that maybe he did and it was just his position coaches were not good enough to execute the improvement plans he had devised. There was, however, evidence of him being somewhat of a good motivator. He didn't necessarily strike me as one but his Bills team last year played harder than any Bills team in the 12 years I have been watching. They won a lot of games late and they were genuinely competitive in every single game. I also think that if you asked most NFL observers and kept it entirely team neutral - "what is the ceiling for a team with a mediocre veteran at Quarterback?" the best record you would hear in response would likely be 9-7 and he got the Bills to that mark. How much did he and Hackett hold EJ back? I don't know... but we are going to get some kind of clue in the next few months I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 because they felt sorry for his dumb azz you do understand sarcasm of a sort. no? Fred IMO is all class and would never throw someone under a bus :worthy: Vanilla ice cream for all! WRT the linked scaled back O FACT - Dec 9, 2013 that is 12 or 13 weeks into the season. why did he wait so long? Did you also note Moron only called 17 rushing plays in the Tampa game???!!! The Bills, Manuel and their (likely) scaled back offense will take on a Jacksonville Jaguars outfit next Sunday FTR EJ won that Jax game That wasn't sarcasm. FACT the offense under EJ was ranked 22nd in the NFL while the the offense under KO was ranked 29nd in the NFL from a quick glance there seems to be but one axe grinder Link your stats. Let's see them. also thanks to Moron CJ Spiller never reached his potential either RB's need 5 years to develop and reach their potential? Wow, haven't checked in here a while. I see that axe is still getting plenty of attention. This is an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm just trying to wrap my head around why a Chicago newspaper is covering the Bills.That Chicago paper is just creating locally branded websites that are staffed by one person rewriting stories from other sources. No reporters, no original content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 There wasn't much evidence in his time with the Bills that he was a good coach. He didn't improve the O-line despite taking a more hands on role and he didn't appear to identify ways of developing others on his time - although I accept that maybe he did and it was just his position coaches were not good enough to execute the improvement plans he had devised. There was, however, evidence of him being somewhat of a good motivator. He didn't necessarily strike me as one but his Bills team last year played harder than any Bills team in the 12 years I have been watching. They won a lot of games late and they were genuinely competitive in every single game. I also think that if you asked most NFL observers and kept it entirely team neutral - "what is the ceiling for a team with a mediocre veteran at Quarterback?" the best record you would hear in response would likely be 9-7 and he got the Bills to that mark. How much did he and Hackett hold EJ back? I don't know... but we are going to get some kind of clue in the next few months I suspect. This is a well-reasoned post, IMO. The Bills did play hard, and (I guess) you have to give the man at the top some credit for that. The lack of development of just about every player on offense (and significant regression for some) can't be ignored, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Link your stats. Let's see them. I am pretty sure he is right without seeing the stats. But then EJ benefited from a running game, partly because we seemed only to be able to run from the shotgun read option look (and we ran fewer shotgun formations with Orton) and because for two games he had the benefit of the only competent run blocking guard the Bills fielded last year - Chris Williams (a TBD hate figure himself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 That wasn't sarcasm. Link your stats. Let's see them. RB's need 5 years to develop and reach their potential? This is an anomaly. as you say. to me I saw that as sarc from The Wiz. I have posted the stats a number of times. Doubt me? Then you can provide a link to prove me wrong. Years 4 and 5 he should have excelled with proper coaching and play calling. Yes it is an anomaly that you are still crusading FTR when did you start saying CJ was a flop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) as you say. to me I saw that as sarc from The Wiz. I have posted the stats a number of times. Doubt me? Then you can provide a link to prove me wrong. Years 4 and 5 he should have excelled with proper coaching and play calling. Yes it is an anomaly that you are still crusading FTR when did you start saying CJ was a flop? 3 years ago. And no, you made a claim, show me the link. Edited June 16, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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