Heitz Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I have a feeling his leap will be somewhat like this: File that under "posts that surprise no one"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Yes there's a competition, but they do have a guy in mind that they envision as their prime candidate for the offense they want to run with the hope of great success. This sounds like a preconceived notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) This sounds like a preconceived notion. yup since it was a prerequisite from Doug Whaley that the new HC has to give EJ every avenue to succeed. Edited June 15, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) There’s a big difference between “underperformed” and “horrible”. How would you even know what being reasonably objective is? Who are you to accuse anyone of abandoning their objectivity? I think that Cassel was brought here to fill Orton’s role as emergency back up QB to Manuel. Some people think he was brought here to be the starter. Let’s not pretend that we are completely objective when almost everyone has preconceived notions of what’s really going on beyond the coach speak and behind the curtain. Yes there's a competition, but they do have a guy in mind that they envision as their prime candidate for the offense they want to run with the hope of great success. "Underperformed," is a comparative adjective, whereas "horrible" is particular. As was reported by Carucci, all three had "moments that ranged from mediocre to awful." And this is exactly what I mean by abandoning objectivity. You're more than willing to jump on Cassel's poor play as somehow being evidence that EJ has been "penciled in," yet you willfully ignore EJ's own poor play. And then (maybe not you, but others) will accuse me of being an "EJ detractor," or some such nonsense. It simply isn't true. I would be thrilled with EJ turning into a successful QB, Period. To be objective, one has to drop their preconceived notions. Obviously, Cassel was brought in to be the veteran presence-- it has been stated as such. I suspect (and this was also stated as such) that this was done with the idea of him being either the starter, or backup, dependent on his performance in TC. I also suspect that this makes him the only safe QB to make the roster (unless he truly melts down in practice, a la K. Kolb). I don't think Ryan, or anyone else, is particularly thrilled with any of our four QBs. I consider these to be objective observations because, at this point in the offseason, I am only going off of media reporting (the article headlining this thread notwithstanding), and statements by coaches, and players. And, out of curiosity, where does Taylor fit into your preconceived notions? Edited June 15, 2015 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) yup since it was a prerequisite from Doug Whaley that the new HC has to give EJ every avenue to succeed. Where did you get this from? Or, are you being sarcastic? Did Pegula think so too? He was in on the interviews and had the final say. Edited June 15, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Where did you get this from? Or, are you being sarcastic? Did Pegula think so too? He was in on the interviews and had the final say. I read it right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I read it right here. And it's the Internet, so it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 There has been one OTA in which Cassel underperformed EJ, and Taylor was not playing with the first team on that day. Every reasonably objective article leading up to that day had speculated that Cassel would be the most likely starter. Every reasonably objective article since then has speculated that his poor OTA could draw that into question. That's a far cry from EJ being "penciled in." That's only an easy assumption for the EJ supporters who have made a habit of abandoning their objectivity, and only acknowledging those things that support their pro-EJ perspective. Not hating. Not mad. Not in a bad mood. Just being realistic. I think the articles penciling Cassel in as a starter were not reasonably objective -- they were written mostly by national reporters who only knew that EJ was benched last year and Orton retired. It is an extremely reasonable view to suggest that the Bills want to give EJ every opportunity to take a step forward towards being the QB they hoped he would be. The bottom line is that EJ was not "that bad" when he played, and I think we all agree he got less than stellar coaching. The Bills brought in an OC who wants a mobile QB -- is that because they want Cassel to start? In my opinion, the only way EJ won't be the opening day starter is if either Cassel or Taylor significantly outplay him in TC and preseason. If it's close, they'll go with EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think the articles penciling Cassel in as a starter were not reasonably objective -- they were written mostly by national reporters who only knew that EJ was benched last year and Orton retired. It is an extremely reasonable view to suggest that the Bills want to give EJ every opportunity to take a step forward towards being the QB they hoped he would be. The bottom line is that EJ was not "that bad" when he played, and I think we all agree he got less than stellar coaching. The Bills brought in an OC who wants a mobile QB -- is that because they want Cassel to start? In my opinion, the only way EJ won't be the opening day starter is if either Cassel or Taylor significantly outplay him in TC and preseason. If it's close, they'll go with EJ. I have never thought that they "want Cassel to start." I think it's pretty clear what his role is. But, in terms of mobility, Taylor certainly has EJ beat. Why should we assume that Taylor would have to "significantly" beat him? (By that, I assume you mean that Taylor would have to beat him by a significant margin.) Other than being three inches taller, what gives anybody the impression that EJ has an immediate advantage? Especially given Roman's desire for a mobile QB? And, regarding mobility, we shouldn't forget that EJ has suffered three knee injuries. I'm sure Roman hasn't. I also look at Ryan's history. Last offseason in Jersey, they had declared that Geno and Vick were competing for the spot, but it was obvious to everyone-- players, and media-- that Geno was favored. That is not the case here. If EJ is favored, no one is saying it (apart from the EJ enthusiasts, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I'm just hoping that he earns the start because he's become that much better instead of it being because Cassel & Taylor sucked just that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Just because he seems like such a nice young man, I hope EJ really is what we wanted three years ago. It is hard for me to believe he is going to make good, quick decisions, and throw with pinpoint accuracy when defensive coordinators are going to throw all kinds of disguises on him. My buddies down here who are huge FSU fans tell me he's always had these problems. I hope I'm wrong and we have a franchise QB. It just seems Cassel with 11 years of experience would not be fooled as much and make safe decisions. We'll certainly find out. Per the scouting reports pre-draft, he has always had those problems, along with issues reading defenses and going through his progressions. Everything is FIXABLE, but you can't fix everything. IMO. I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) I have never thought that they "want Cassel to start." I think it's pretty clear what his role is. But, in terms of mobility, Taylor certainly has EJ beat. Why should we assume that Taylor would have to "significantly" beat him? (By that, I assume you mean that Taylor would have to beat him by a significant margin.) Other than being three inches taller, what gives anybody the impression that EJ has an immediate advantage? Especially given Roman's desire for a mobile QB? And, regarding mobility, we shouldn't forget that EJ has suffered three knee injuries. I'm sure Roman hasn't. I also look at Ryan's history. Last offseason in Jersey, they had declared that Geno and Vick were competing for the spot, but it was obvious to everyone-- players, and media-- that Geno was favored. That is not the case here. If EJ is favored, no one is saying it (apart from the EJ enthusiasts, of course). Taylor is fast but he has no regular season game tape to watch. One of the very first things Rex said about EJ is that he'd "like to see him use his legs more." I really don't think the knee injuries are a concern. The last one was more than a year and a half ago, and none were considered "serious." I continue to think that Cassel is merely an insurance policy, and EJ is the organization's "favorite" but if TT outplays him they will go that direction. Edited June 15, 2015 by eball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 In my opinion, the only way EJ won't be the opening day starter is if either Cassel or Taylor significantly outplay him in TC and preseason. If it's close, they'll go with EJ. Well if that's the case, then we are screwed... we have three bottom feeder QBs that will hurt our already talented offense and defense. This is precisely why we needed a totally legit QB and not another band-aid and cover-up for a terrible pick in Manuel. They should have swallowed their pride and gotten a QB worthy of this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well if that's the case, then we are screwed... we have three bottom feeder QBs that will hurt our already talented offense and defense. This is precisely why we needed a totally legit QB and not another band-aid and cover-up for a terrible pick in Manuel. They should have swallowed their pride and gotten a QB worthy of this team. such as... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well if that's the case, then we are screwed... we have three bottom feeder QBs that will hurt our already talented offense and defense. This is precisely why we needed a totally legit QB and not another band-aid and cover-up for a terrible pick in Manuel. They should have swallowed their pride and gotten a QB worthy of this team. You just discovered this today? By the way, I'm not predicting EJ will suddenly light it up, but I do think he will prove to be at least serviceable with the team assembled around him, and he should continue to gain confidence as the year progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 such as... Right... The Bills have drafted 1 QB since Trent Edwards in 2007. That's 8 years, 8.... Thank you Ol' Whitey, Marv, Buddy Nix for never getting it right, 1 X. Actually I blame Buddy most of all, hanging onto and over paying for Fitz, and then reaching E.J. in desperation on the way out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Where did you get this from? Or, are you being sarcastic? Did Pegula think so too? He was in on the interviews and had the final say. Here ya go. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2015/1/6/7504485/buffalo-bills-doug-whaley-new-coach-ej-manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Right... The Bills have drafted 1 QB since Trent Edwards in 2007. That's 8 years, 8.... Thank you Ol' Whitey, Marv, Buddy Nix for never getting it right, 1 X. Actually I blame Buddy most of all, hanging onto and over paying for Fitz, and then reaching E.J. in desperation on the way out the door. With the context of needing a legit QB and not one to cover up drafting Manuel, I wouldn't take it back that far. So I'll be more specific. What legit QB's have been available since 2013? Edited June 15, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 "Underperformed," is a comparative adjective, whereas "horrible" is particular. As was reported by Carucci, all three had "moments that ranged from mediocre to awful." And this is exactly what I mean by abandoning objectivity. You're more than willing to jump on Cassel's poor play as somehow being evidence that EJ has been "penciled in," yet you willfully ignore EJ's own poor play. And then (maybe not you, but others) will accuse me of being an "EJ detractor," or some such nonsense. It simply isn't true. I would be thrilled with EJ turning into a successful QB, Period. To be objective, one has to drop their preconceived notions. Obviously, Cassel was brought in to be the veteran presence-- it has been stated as such. I suspect (and this was also stated as such) that this was done with the idea of him being either the starter, or backup, dependent on his performance in TC. I also suspect that this makes him the only safe QB to make the roster (unless he truly melts down in practice, a la K. Kolb). I don't think Ryan, or anyone else, is particularly thrilled with any of our four QBs. I consider these to be objective observations because, at this point in the offseason, I am only going off of media reporting (the article headlining this thread notwithstanding), and statements by coaches, and players. And, out of curiosity, where does Taylor fit into your preconceived notions? I'm of the opinion that Rex and Roman both want EJ as their starter and they're hoping he doesn't blow it. Taylor is a "catch lightning in a bottle" QB pick up where they see if he can stun everyone and win it. It's only human nature to have your favorites going in as coaches with big dreams of what could be if everything started to click. I guess I just don't believe the coaches when they say everyone's on equal footing. If Cassel or Taylor blow them away then there will no doubt be a change of plans, but I do think that Manuel has the inside track. If Taylor stuns and wins the job then I'd be thrilled. The only way I'm not going to be thrilled if Cassel wins it because he's so one dimensional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 With the context of needing a legit QB and not one to cover up drafting Manuel, I wouldn't take it back that far. So I'll be more specific. What legit QB's have been available since 2013? How do you find a very good to franchise level QB if you don't take one? Besides, we're told you can't evaluate QB's until they've been in the league a few seasons. Right? Isn't that the mantra preached whenever anyone remarks EJ isn't showing progress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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