Would you, right now, trade EJ for Tannehill? Chapter 2

[YoloinOhio]

Just remember Miami is already paying him $7 million. So to get him away from Miami it better be more than $7 million. It's easy to guess what the Bills will offer. It's going to be between $8-$10 million per year.

it will be front loaded with a big cap hit next year

[FireChan]

 

I don't like Tanny and I still don't know about EJ or Geno yet.

 

Head to head in their last game Geno had a 158 rating and 3 TDs vs Tanny who had a 87 rating and 1 TD. EJ beat Tanny in their head to head match up.

 

I wouldn't trade EJ or Geno for Tanny because I know that Tanny isn't the answer. Much better to see what I have with either of those two with the ability to easily move on if they can't reach the average level of play of Tanny. I'm looking for something better than Tanny, a guy who I think will never win you a Superbowl as your starting QB. Trading for Tanny is signing on for being in "no mans land". No thank you.

Yes, you've said that. Problem is, we're already in "no mans land."

you forgot to add a part two

 

(is the OP) Am I an Idiot (troll)

Yes or No

80 % feel EJ can be the starter....

 

what has Tannehill done in Miami again?

75% would rather have Tanny as the starter, apparently.

Edited March 15, 2015 by FireChan

[boyst]

microwave society first to break

 

from fake twit accounts ???

its beautiful, because he has a shot at being right.

 

it was years ago - like 8 or 9 when i first joined - there were a few things that were going to happen and people didn't think were but everyone kind of knew... so i started a thread about it. it had something to do with mcgahee or something like that. i put that i had an inside source that 3 or 4 things were going to happen, when they did i said i just made it up because it was obvious.

[BillsFanForever19]

This didn't deserve it's own thread. It's just specuation from someone with less credibility than half of us posters.

[Augie]

Salary cap is $143M...teams have to spend $125M...stop worry about money and contracts....just worry about the talent we are acquiring....ridiculous that everyone brings up cap space and money constantly.

I don't care about the money (it's not MINE) as much as possible handcuffs down the road. It's real - as the Saints. I know, we don't have a billion dollar QB! I'm fine to spend now as long as the cap rises and we have room for Dareus, Cordy, Gilmore, Nigel, etc. when it's time. It's been nice operating from a position of strength but I know it can't last forever if you're always the big spender. That's why the best teams draft well and develop. Pay wholesale, not retail plus. (I'm far from cheap in real life, but we are "fiscally conservative".)

[1billsfan]

Yes, you've said that. Problem is, we're already in "no mans land."

 

To me, "no mans land" is thinking you have the problem solved when you really don't. The Bills are in the game of finding their guy and that means doing everything...developing Manuel and Taylor and seeing what they do this year, possibly drafting a QB at #50 who might be the answer, drafting a QB in the first round in 2016 or making a big trade for an established QB who's long in the tooth but has a couple of good years left.

 

One way or the other the Bills will find their guy between now and next off season. They proved this offseason that they aren't afraid to do whatever it takes to get it done.

[Niagara Dude]

Agreed. It's really the player's pool of money, and it's up to each team to parcel it out to whomever they want and can.

Fans need to understand this franchise is not the same as before and BS crap of cash to cap days.You want good players two things are important, one is you have to spend some cash but also players have to see that you are looking to spend to bring other players so you can win.In the past they would make one off season splash move and then Brandon would go ahead and market that to sell tickets.Have we heard anyone on the Bills talking about cash to cap?HMM!

[marauderswr80]

What's really handcuffing the Bills is the contract of Mario! If they could restructure it they would be in great shape!

[nucci]

I don't care about the money (it's not MINE) as much as possible handcuffs down the road. It's real - as the Saints. I know, we don't have a billion dollar QB! I'm fine to spend now as long as the cap rises and we have room for Dareus, Cordy, Gilmore, Nigel, etc. when it's time. It's been nice operating from a position of strength but I know it can't last forever if you're always the big spender. That's why the best teams draft well and develop. Pay wholesale, not retail plus. (I'm far from cheap in real life, but we are "fiscally conservative".)

I understand but the Bills seem to be nowhere near being in cap trouble now or immediate future. Every year players are released or not re-signed. Saints went for the SB and failed. Doesn't mean it will happen to everyone. Remember Overdorf is still handling contracts...he's done a good job so far.

[FireChan]

 

To me, "no mans land" is thinking you have the problem solved when you really don't. The Bills are in the game of finding their guy and that means doing everything...developing Manuel and Taylor and seeing what they do this year, possibly drafting a QB at #50 who might be the answer, drafting a QB in the first round in 2016 or making a big trade for an established QB who's long in the tooth but has a couple of good years left.

 

One way or the other the Bills will find their guy between now and next off season. They proved this offseason that they aren't afraid to do whatever it takes to get it done.

So you think that you'd know the "problem isn't solved" and Whaley wouldn't?

[Punch]

What's really handcuffing the Bills is the contract of Mario! If they could restructure it they would be in great shape!

I'm not sure it's handcuffing them. Whaley has said publicly that they have that option in their back pocket. If they need to restructure, they will. They won't until there's an actual need.

[nucci]

What's really handcuffing the Bills is the contract of Mario! If they could restructure it they would be in great shape!

No, it's not!!! If they restructure Mario you are putting big money in future years. That's how you get in to cap trouble!

[Nanker]

I understand but the Bills seem to be nowhere near being in cap trouble now or immediate future. Every year players are released or not re-signed. Saints went for the SB and failed. Doesn't mean it will happen to everyone. Remember Overdorf is still handling contracts...he's done a good job so far.

Based on past history, I'd say he's done a fantastic job this year.

[KDIGGZ]

Close this thread and OP please consider your source in the future. This is nothing more than a rumor and should have just been posted in one of the other Clay threads. We could have laughed at it there. I see a thread title like this and I think its legit. You almost made me spill my cereal!

[Bills Fan in MD]

This didn't deserve it's own thread. It's just specuation from someone with less credibility than half of us posters.

Completely agree. I really thought it would be real news when I clicked on it.

[KDIGGZ]

Having said that I think these types of numbers seem possible. I just don't believe this source

[boyst]

This didn't deserve it's own thread. It's just specuation from someone with less credibility than half of us posters.

which half?

[Freddie's Dead]

Scott Chandler 2014: 47 rec 497 yds 3 TD career (9 seasons) 182 rec 2120 yds 17 TD

Charles Clay 2014: 58 rec 605 yds 3 TD career (5 seasons) 161 rec 1809 yds 14 TD

 

TBD consensus: Chandler at $3M blows, #$% 'im, good riddance, Clay at $9M, no problem, awesome, massive upgrade

 

What am I missing here? It looks to me like we got similar talent at 3X the price. Chandler was still better than anything we had on this roster, and it looks to me like he's maybe slightly less than Clay. I don't get it, so please enlighten me TBD.

[Augie]

I understand but the Bills seem to be nowhere near being in cap trouble now or immediate future. Every year players are released or not re-signed. Saints went for the SB and failed. Doesn't mean it will happen to everyone. Remember Overdorf is still handling contracts...he's done a good job so far.

I see Dareus as our "pending Suh", and that gets you in cap trouble in a hurry - ask the Dolphins. I'm not sure how much money we can have on the DLine along with Mario and the rest of the gang. LT isn't cheap either. That's the only advantage to not having a Franchise QB, I guess. I'd gladly take that problem.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

its beautiful, because he has a shot at being right.

 

it was years ago - like 8 or 9 when i first joined - there were a few things that were going to happen and people didn't think were but everyone kind of knew... so i started a thread about it. it had something to do with mcgahee or something like that. i put that i had an inside source that 3 or 4 things were going to happen, when they did i said i just made it up because it was obvious.

LOL

 

This is why I usually ask for an accredited link and not some fale AdamSheftor tweet - fake - real > AdamShefter

FWIW the homer in me says

 

if the Bills make the playoffs Dareus stays

[GunnerBill]

Right. Totally okay with that. The problem with the argument that a QB like Tanny isn't good enough falls flat when you look at those numbers. Once the playoffs start, by math, the average QB's that make the playoffs have an infinitely higher chance of winning the Super Bowl compared to an EJ or a Geno. And when I say infinite, I mean it.

 

Which is why I answered a reluctant "yes" to your poll.

[Big Turk]

I see Dareus as our "pending Suh", and that gets you in cap trouble in a hurry - ask the Dolphins. I'm not sure how much money we can have on the DLine along with Mario and the rest of the gang. LT isn't cheap either. That's the only advantage to not having a Franchise QB, I guess. I'd gladly take that problem.

Yeah...real cap trouble next year with $50 million to spend, plus whatever the cap increases and our cap casualties...we are in so much trouble...

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

75% would rather have Tanny as the starter, apparently.

I'd bet 100% would want any of the following over EJ and Tannehil

 

Luck, Rogers, Wilson, Brady (well maybe 80% for Tummy as there is due to be a bias),

should I poll it for you? (to make you feel better?)

[Kirby Jackson]

The answer has to be yes at this point even if you aren't a Tannehill fan (which I'm not). He threw for over 4,000 yards and had 27 TDs to 12 INTs. It's not feasible at this point to prefer EJ.

 

A more realistic and better question at this point is would you rather have EJ or Geno? For me that's an "I don't know." Geno makes more plays and more mistakes.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

The answer has to be yes at this point even if you aren't a Tannehill fan (which I'm not). He threw for over 4,000 yards and had 27 TDs to 12 INTs. It's not feasible at this point to prefer EJ.

 

A more realistic and better question at this point is would you rather have EJ or Geno? For me that's an "I don't know." Geno makes more plays and more mistakes.

 

Oh God, EJ every day of the week.

[nucci]

Scott Chandler 2014: 47 rec 497 yds 3 TD career (9 seasons) 182 rec 2120 yds 17 TD

Charles Clay 2014: 58 rec 605 yds 3 TD career (5 seasons) 161 rec 1809 yds 14 TD

 

TBD consensus: Chandler at $3M blows, #$% 'im, good riddance, Clay at $9M, no problem, awesome, massive upgrade

 

What am I missing here? It looks to me like we got similar talent at 3X the price. Chandler was still better than anything we had on this roster, and it looks to me like he's maybe slightly less than Clay. I don't get it, so please enlighten me TBD.

can't judge everything by stats.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

Oh God, EJ every day of the week.

trolls got to eat

[Chandler#81]

Mea Culpa. I attempted to merge last 3 pages of. New Clay thread with the Poll Clay thread. Hit the wrong button.. I was merging them because the new thread didn't really add value, just another 'nobody' tweet that we finally made him an offer.

Anyway, trying to figure out how to undo what I done..

Carry on with EJ

[nucci]

Mea Culpa. I attempted to merge last 3 pages of. New Clay thread with the Poll Clay thread. Hit the wrong button.. I was merging them because the new thread didn't really add value, just another 'nobody' tweet that we finally made him an offer.

Anyway, trying to figure out how to undo what I done..

Carry on with EJ

It's the off-season Bobby C. Just be ready when camp starts.

[Kirby Jackson]

trolls got to eat

This is the 1st time that I have ever been called a troll here!! That's kind of exciting.

 

EJ vs. Geno is a much more realistic comparison at this point than EJ vs. Tannehill. If you put a gun to my head I would pick EJ over Geno (mostly because of the unknown). I believe that Geno is more capable of winning (and losing) games on his own than EJ.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChan]

I'd bet 100% would want any of the following over EJ and Tannehil

 

Luck, Rogers, Wilson, Brady (well maybe 80% for Tummy as there is due to be a bias),

should I poll it for you? (to make you feel better?)

What does that have to do with anything? Word diarrhea again?

The answer has to be yes at this point even if you aren't a Tannehill fan (which I'm not). He threw for over 4,000 yards and had 27 TDs to 12 INTs. It's not feasible at this point to prefer EJ.

 

A more realistic and better question at this point is would you rather have EJ or Geno? For me that's an "I don't know." Geno makes more plays and more mistakes.

That's what I thought. Shocked to discover otherwise.

 

Geno vs. EJ is devil you know. They are mirror images. Geno may end up being the better QB, but EJ is more conducive to winning now. I think I'd stick with EJ.

 

Which is why I answered a reluctant "yes" to your poll.

Yeah, I was having a discussion with someone else and he sorta ignored the grand point, so I had to make it to you.

[billsfan1959]

The answer has to be yes at this point even if you aren't a Tannehill fan (which I'm not). He threw for over 4,000 yards and had 27 TDs to 12 INTs. It's not feasible at this point to prefer EJ.

 

A more realistic and better question at this point is would you rather have EJ or Geno? For me that's an "I don't know." Geno makes more plays and more mistakes.

Exactly: at this point the logical vote would be yes. The OP wants us to make an argument that Manuel, who only played 14 games and hasn't played since week four of this last season, is better at this point than a QB who has had the opportunity to improve over three full, uninterrupted seasons at QB. It is an argument that cannot be reasonably made. So, what exactly is this poll supposed to demonstrate? That Tannehill, (whose completion %, TD%, INT%, and QB rating were all worse in his first 14 games than Manuel's) improved with the opportunity to do so? That a QB who has played 48 games is better at this point than a QB who has played 14 games? Big surprise. Do we need a poll to figure that out?

 

My guess is that the primary purpose of this poll is to provide the OP with something he can use to rationalize his long standing dislike for Manuel.

[GunnerBill]

That Tannehill, (whose completion %, TD%, INT%, and QB rating were all worse in his first 14 games than Manuel's)

 

It can't be true... because EJ is the worsest Quarterback ever..... I read it on here.

[billsfan1959]

 

It can't be true... because EJ is the worsest Quarterback ever..... I read it on here.

Here they are (1st 14 games each). But don't tell anyone - it might dispel a lot of myths out there....like a QB can't improve

 

Att Comp Comp% Yds TDs TD% INTs INT% QB rating

Tannehill 396 227 57.3 2709 8 2.02 12 3.03 72.4

Manuel 437 256 58.6 2816 16 3.66 12 2.74 78.5

Edited March 15, 2015 by billsfan1959

[Bangarang]

Here they are (1st 14 games each). But don't tell anyone - it might dispel a lot of myths out there....like a QB can't improve

 

Att Comp Comp% Yds TDs TD% INTs INT% QB rating

Tannehill 396 227 57.3 2709 8 2.02 12 3.03 72.4

Manuel 437 256 58.6 2816 16 3.66 12 2.74 78.5

 

I wouldn't consider it to be a fair comparison by taking EJ's numbers after 2 full seasons and compare them to Tannehill's after 14 games in his rookie year. Still seems like people are talking like EJ is a rookie still with the whole "he's only played 14 games" stuff. I find it misleading.

 

Why would you try and compare the stats of someone who had an entire off-season to work on his game and improve to someone who was still in their rookie season?

Edited March 15, 2015 by Bangarang

[Chandler#81]

It's the off-season Bobby C. Just be ready when camp starts.

Ha! Going to Phoenix to train like crazy! I'll be ready for Camp! Thanks.

[dave mcbride]

This is stupid and another sad attempt to put EJ down. Of course at this point, you have to take Tannehll. But here's their first 4 games last year:

 

Tannehll - 93/ 155, 60%, 902 yards, 5.8 ypa, 6 tds, 3 ints, 2 fumbles, 0 rushing tds. W-L: 2-2 http://www.nfl.com/player/ryantannehill/2532956/gamelogs

 

Manuel - 76/131, 58%, 838 yards, 6.4 ypa, 5 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble, 1 rushing td. W-L: 2-2 http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/gamelogs

 

Seems like 2 young qbs who got off to very similar starts. Except our gutless coach benched our guy and the Miami coaches, despite whining by fans and media, stuck with Tannehill. And he improved. Tannehill has Aaron Rodgers' old OC and a guy from Chip Kelly's staff. We had guys who worked with Ryan Nassib in the Big East who turned a 9-7 record into assistant coaches jobs with the Jags.

 

But there is one place EJ is clearly ahead of him. He's one and zero versus him. In fact, the only Bills QB to lose to Tannehill is the veteran upgrade and your hero Kyle Orton.

 

Appreciate the stats, but please please please refrain from including the W-L stat. It's the ultimate team game, and qb win-loss stats are for knuckle draggers. As you probably know, even in baseball w-l stats for pitchers aren't regarded as indicative of much anymore. As for tannehill, he was stil learning when he came into the league, having played qb only one season in college. Manuel was a qb throughout all of college and attended a lifetime's worth of primo youth qb camps. The ceiling was and is higher for tannehill.

This is the 1st time that I have ever been called a troll here!! That's kind of exciting.

EJ vs. Geno is a much more realistic comparison at this point than EJ vs. Tannehill. If you put a gun to my head I would pick EJ over Geno (mostly because of the unknown). I believe that Geno is more capable of winning (and losing) games on his own than EJ.

It's a tough one, but I'd take Smith. He looks like a more natural qb and throws a better intermediate deep ball. Edited March 15, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Mark80]

So this thread goes, EJ vs Tanny, then to Clay rumors, then to EJ vs Tanny. Fun.

[FireChan]

 

I wouldn't consider it to be a fair comparison by taking EJ's numbers after 2 full seasons and compare them to Tannehill's after 14 games in his rookie year. Still seems like people are talking like EJ is a rookie still with the whole "he's only played 14 games" stuff. I find it misleading.

 

Why would you try and compare the stats of someone who had an entire off-season to work on his game and improve to someone who was still in their rookie season?

That's a very good point. Maybe they should compare the differences betwen first and second seasons for both QB's.

[metzelaars_lives]

This is the 1st time that I have ever been called a troll here!! That's kind of exciting.

 

EJ vs. Geno is a much more realistic comparison at this point than EJ vs. Tannehill. If you put a gun to my head I would pick EJ over Geno (mostly because of the unknown). I believe that Geno is more capable of winning (and losing) games on his own than EJ.

Don't get too excited. He calls everyone a troll. I'm not sure he understands what it means.