D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You're of the opinion that JF wouldn't have been drafted? My question is precisely the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) You're of the opinion that JF wouldn't have been drafted? He shouldn't have been drafted. He probably wouldn't have been drafted it didn't look like Jerry Jones people were going to let that happen... Of course always a team like the Browns though. Edited February 2, 2015 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 He shouldn't have been drafted. He probably wouldn't have been drafted it didn't look like Jerry Jones people were going to let that happen... Of course always a team like the Browns though. You're dead wrong. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You're dead wrong. Sorry. Agree with this 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You're dead wrong. Sorry. I wish I was wrong but I'm not... Just like Tebow and teams never learn. Agree with this 100% Doesn't help his case that you of all people agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I wish I was wrong but I'm not... Just like Tebow and teams never learn. Â Doesn't help his case that you of all people agree with him. Johnny Football and Tebow were nothing alike as prospects. 0/2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Johnny Football and Tebow were nothing alike as prospects. 0/2. They were both great college players that many people could see not transitioning to the NFL. It's like you are angry at me b.c Manziel failed. Don't get angry at me b.c I knew what Manziel was and so did many other teams. Edited February 2, 2015 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 They were both great college players that many people could see not transitioning to the NFL. It's like you are angry at me b.c Manziel failed. Don't get angry at me b.c I knew what Manziel was and so did many other teams. I'm not angry, your opinions are just incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'm not angry, your opinions are just incorrect. Like I said I wish they were... But Manziel has proven me correct. Hopefully he realizes he isn't a NFL QB. I am just glad we don't have posters in the front office like that other guy who wants to bring Manziel here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 @MaryKayCabot: Breaking: #Browns QB Johnny Manziel has entered treatment Wednesday according to publicist Denise Michaels. Details coming soon Rehab @RapSheet: Per Johnny Manziels advisor Brad Beckworth, Manziel entered treatment on Wednesday. He thought the off-season was the right time. "@JFowlerESPN: Manziel enters treatment to 'improve' self. http://t.co/vlx1xNaEjx" Â glad to hear it, although it's concerning that he has to figure out his value system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland Rocks? Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Sadly I know some people who cover the team and Manziel also has a serious drug problem. The team has been aware of the alcoholism for awhile (last summer). Football is the last thing his family cares about right now. Hopefully he is healthy for training camp not because I am counting on him to be our QB, but because it means there is some hope for him to contribute at some point. That maybe, just maybe, the issues that led to his lack of focus are wrapped up in his drug/acohol problems. And could be "fixable." I never wanted the Browns to draft him because I felt there were better QBs in the draft. But they did, so I have hope left. I feel like a terrible person for being such a fan that I worry our QB situation rather than real life problems of a human being. Â I admittedly know nothing about the rehab process so my apologies in advance for sounding ignorant that things can be "fixed" if that is not reality. Brett Favre went to rehab and was able to recover, correct? Any other examples? Edited February 2, 2015 by Cleveland Rocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sadly I know some people who cover the team and Manziel also has a serious drug problem. The team has been aware of the alcoholism for awhile (last summer). Football is the last thing his family cares about right now. Hopefully he is healthy for training camp not because I am counting on him to be our QB, but because it means there is some hope for him to contribute at some point. That maybe, just maybe, the issues that led to his lack of focus are wrapped up in his drug/acohol problems. And could be "fixable." I never wanted the Browns to draft him because I felt there were better QBs in the draft. But they did, so I have hope left. I feel like a terrible person for being such a fan that I worry our QB situation rather than real life problems of a human being. Â I admittedly know nothing about the rehab process so my apologies in advance for sounding ignorant that things can be "fixed" if that is not reality. Brett Favre went to rehab and was able to recover, correct? Any other examples? Â don't worry that's most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Like I said I wish they were... But Manziel has proven me correct. Hopefully he realizes he isn't a NFL QB. I am just glad we don't have posters in the front office like that other guy who wants to bring Manziel here.I can assure you, Manziel would have been drafted by just about every other team if Cleveland and Dallas didn't take him. In fact, I think Houston was hoping he'd be there at 33. Edited February 2, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS 56 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sadly I know some people who cover the team and Manziel also has a serious drug problem. The team has been aware of the alcoholism for awhile (last summer). Football is the last thing his family cares about right now. Hopefully he is healthy for training camp not because I am counting on him to be our QB, but because it means there is some hope for him to contribute at some point. That maybe, just maybe, the issues that led to his lack of focus are wrapped up in his drug/acohol problems. And could be "fixable." I never wanted the Browns to draft him because I felt there were better QBs in the draft. But they did, so I have hope left. I feel like a terrible person for being such a fan that I worry our QB situation rather than real life problems of a human being. Â I admittedly know nothing about the rehab process so my apologies in advance for sounding ignorant that things can be "fixed" if that is not reality. Brett Favre went to rehab and was able to recover, correct? Any other examples? The success rate of AA and rehab is about 10% overall. The odds are not with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I wish I was wrong but I'm not... Just like Tebow and teams never learn. Â Doesn't help his case that you of all people agree with him. Is that really necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I can assure you, Manziel would have been drafted by just about every other team if Cleveland and Dallas didn't take him. In fact, I think Houston was hoping he'd be there at 33. Doubt it but who knows teams make mistakes all the time. Houston wanted Garopolo. Edited February 2, 2015 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hey, for all the people that say EJ deserves more time and its unfair to write him off..... why not more time for Johnny ? Â Ryan Mallett also has less time on the field then EJ Â Too many people here pick and choose WHO deserves more time ? You got that right. Â It's funny....for those saying Johnny Football is not NFL material and what not... Â As risky of an NFL prospect as he is...he is much LESS of a risk than freaking EJ Manuel, and I would have said that while both guys were still playing in college. Â Don't get me wrong: I think Johnny has a long road to hoe and it is highly unlikely that he turns into a steady NFL QB. But at least he has a pulse. EJ just sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You got that right. Â It's funny....for those saying Johnny Football is not NFL material and what not... Â As risky of an NFL prospect as he is...he is much LESS of a risk than freaking EJ Manuel, and I would have said that while both guys were still playing in college. Â Don't get me wrong: I think Johnny has a long road to hoe and it is highly unlikely that he turns into a steady NFL QB. But at least he has a pulse. EJ just sucks. Â Â So should the Bills try to trade EJ for Manziel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Manziel is a young man with a substance abuse problem. He has recgonized the problem and entered a re-hab program. If, and its a big if, he is successful, he is likely to be a completely different person entering the next training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Manziel is a young man with a substance abuse problem. He has recgonized the problem and entered a re-hab program. If, and its a big if, he is successful, he is likely to be a completely different person entering the next training camp. Â Agreed. I'd take him. Doubt we add a QB with more upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sure he can be "fixed". Rehab- dry out/sober time/education/skills. If he completes the inpatient program, gets outpatient after, stays clean & sober and has a place to go and things to do everyday that don't involve alcohol and/or drugs then he has a chance. If he accepts the fact that he can't use anymore than he has a chance. If he can't do all of that then he has absolutely zero chance. Can he play QB in the NFL? Who knows? Maybe if he is sober and if he dedicates himself to the game instead of nightclubs & endless parties he can. Maybe he can only play hungover and coked up. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Is Jameis the next Johnny Manziel? That might be what teams are thinking. Maybe that will cause him to plummet in the draft and we can get him by trading back into the end of the 1st round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Is Jameis the next Johnny Manziel? That might be what teams are thinking. Maybe that will cause him to plummet in the draft and we can get him by trading back into the end of the 1st round Does Jameis have substance abuse allegations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Does Jameis have substance abuse allegations? Yep. Air. The more he breathes the stupider he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Agreed. I'd take him. Doubt we add a QB with more upside. Manziel has no upside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If the Jets can't draft Mariota, I'll bet a nickel they trade for Manziel. They seem to like young QBs who were good in college but can't transition to the NFL. Â Julian Edelman made the switch from college QB to NFL WR, and he's pretty darn good. I always figured Tebow would make a good TE but he had the sin of pride and wouldn't lower himself to anything other than QB. I wonder if Manziel could play WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 No way? Johnny Goofball has a drinking problem? Yeah. Two hands and only one mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 He shouldn't have been drafted. He probably wouldn't have been drafted it didn't look like Jerry Jones people were going to let that happen... Of course always a team like the Browns though. :blink: You know that there are 7 rounds, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Sadly I know some people who cover the team and Manziel also has a serious drug problem. The team has been aware of the alcoholism for awhile (last summer). Football is the last thing his family cares about right now. Hopefully he is healthy for training camp not because I am counting on him to be our QB, but because it means there is some hope for him to contribute at some point. That maybe, just maybe, the issues that led to his lack of focus are wrapped up in his drug/acohol problems. And could be "fixable." I never wanted the Browns to draft him because I felt there were better QBs in the draft. But they did, so I have hope left. I feel like a terrible person for being such a fan that I worry our QB situation rather than real life problems of a human being.  I admittedly know nothing about the rehab process so my apologies in advance for sounding ignorant that things can be "fixed" if that is not reality. Brett Favre went to rehab and was able to recover, correct? Any other examples? Well, in my own experience, I was heading towards a serious drug/ alcohol issue if people didn't steer me in the right direction. I got scared straight and was sober for three months til I could learn how to deal without alcohol  I drink now but rarely get drunk. I almost always volunteer to the DD so I stay safe.  You can get better, but you have to 100% commit to it. Usually the drinking/drug use is because of something in the past, psychological ect. JFF needs to work on himself and figure out how to control himself in social situations. For me, I had to get away from the people that were putting me in a bad spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, in my own experience, I was heading towards a serious drug/ alcohol issue if people didn't steer me in the right direction. I got scared straight and was sober for three months til I could learn how to deal without alcohol  I drink now but rarely get drunk. I almost always volunteer to the DD so I stay safe.  You can get better, but you have to 100% commit to it. Usually the drinking/drug use is because of something in the past, psychological ect. JFF needs to work on himself and figure out how to control himself in social situations. For me, I had to get away from the people that were putting me in a bad spot You are a good Man indeed for sharing this with us. Thank you Brother!  I think John Manziel is done. His Dad has alluded to his concerns for him pre draft. and to me it sounds like there is alot of work to be done before the kid should be playing football. the percentages are low for success, and if there is s real recovery it will be slow coming. I feel bad for anyone with demons. he might be just that./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 He's 22 years old, good looking, athletic, women love him, he's rich beyond belief, had the world by the balls, and loves to party. Minus the women loving him, being good looking, having athleticism, being rich, and having the world by the balls, he's exaclty like me at that age. I missed work on a Saturday at 22 once too from being wasted. I worked at a collection agency selling septic tank cleaner. The boss was also not happy. Â The stress and expectations put on these guys is insane at that age. But I guess that's how it works once you accept the contract... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I don't know if he can start successfully at the NFL level, but I sincerely hope he can get his act together. That's far more important. He's 22 years old, good looking, athletic, women love him, he's rich beyond belief, had the world by the balls, and loves to party. Minus the women loving him, being good looking, having athleticism, being rich, and having the world by the balls, he's exaclty like me at that age. I missed work on a Saturday at 22 once too from being wasted. I worked at a collection agency selling septic tank cleaner. The boss was also not happy. The stress and expectations put on these guys is insane at that age. But I guess that's how it works once you accept the contract... He had a problem before the contract. The college people were concerned about him. It's complicated, but I hope he gets the help he needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Johnny Football? More like Ryan Leaf Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 :blink: You know that there are 7 rounds, right? Yep and he isn't worth a single pick in any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hey, for all the people that say EJ deserves more time and its unfair to write him off..... why not more time for Johnny ? Â Ryan Mallett also has less time on the field then EJ Â Too many people here pick and choose WHO deserves more time ? Â Dude. It's one thing to be inconsistent as a rookie after success in college. If a guy works hard and keeps his head on straight, he will either improve or not, and deserves a chance. Â It's another thing to be partying and snorting instead of learning the playbook and watching film, getting drunk instead of getting injury treatment, and just generally floating along in the footsteps of Ryan Leaf. Â Can you really not see the difference, and honestly attribute it to some arbitrary personal choice, which is what "too many people here pick and choose" implies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Â Dude. It's one thing to be inconsistent as a rookie after success in college. If a guy works hard and keeps his head on straight, he will either improve or not, and deserves a chance. Â It's another thing to be partying and snorting instead of learning the playbook and watching film, getting drunk instead of getting injury treatment, and just generally floating along in the footsteps of Ryan Leaf. Â Can you really not see the difference, and honestly attribute it to some arbitrary personal choice, which is what "too many people here pick and choose" implies? Â Seeing as alcoholism is a disease, it's not too different a circumstance from EJ's injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) They were both great college players that many people could see not transitioning to the NFL. It's like you are angry at me b.c Manziel failed. Don't get angry at me b.c I knew what Manziel was and so did many other teams. Â Â Haven't followed the whole discussion, but it looks to me like they're not angry at you, they're just laughing at your bizarre belief that ... correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what you appeared to say ... if he hadn't been drafted in the first round, he wouldn't have been drafted. Maybe I misunderstood you, and if so, please straighten me out But that's one bizarre belief. If he hadn't been drafted in the first, he'd have been drafted most likely in the second. He wouldn't have made the fourth. If that's what you meant, you really are dead wrong. Edited February 3, 2015 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The success rate of AA and rehab is about 10% overall. The odds are not with him.    The numbers are questionable there. Lots of ways to measure this. Lots of numbers to choose from.  A survey of 8500 A.A. members in '92 gave a success rate of 32 - 34% of members who'd successfully given up alcohol for five years or more. Yeah, you can find lower numbers, especially if you change the basis of the survey or the way to find people to survey.  For instance, the National Institute on Drug Abuse says 40 - 60% of addicts go back to their addictions after rehab. That's a lot higher than your number.  http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/principles-drug-addiction-treatment-research-based-guide-third-edition/frequently-asked-questions/how-effective-drug-addiction-treatment  But your number is pretty low and you presented it as if it were just a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Â Seeing as alcoholism is a disease, it's not too different a circumstance from EJ's injuries. Â Â Â Â Seriously? Injuries and diseases are not too different? Â Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015    The numbers are questionable there. Lots of ways to measure this. Lots of numbers to choose from.  A survey of 8500 A.A. members in '92 gave a success rate of 32 - 34% of members who'd successfully given up alcohol for five years or more. Yeah, you can find lower numbers, especially if you change the basis of the survey or the way to find people to survey.  For instance, the National Institute on Drug Abuse says 40 - 60% of addicts go back to their addictions after rehab. That's a lot higher than your number.  http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/principles-drug-addiction-treatment-research-based-guide-third-edition/frequently-asked-questions/how-effective-drug-addiction-treatment  But your number is pretty low and you presented it as if it were just a fact. The saying in rehab is it's a lot easier to make a pickle out of a cucumber than a cucumber out of a pickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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