I am not giving up on Kyle Orton

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Asked and expected are different things. And as I said almost all fail, it is about how you fail. EJ has failed spectacularly.

 

I'm not in any way saying he has to be rookie Cam/RGIII/Luck etc. I'm saying he has to show he can throw. He's played enough games to prove it will never be a strength.

failed spectacularly? He's 6-7 in games he has started and finished. He's on the bench for a reason and not denying that. But that's a bit extreme of a measurement at this point.

[dayman]

You exaggerate greatly.

 

I mean this is the real issue to debate. Is it really? I don't know what you would have to do as a young QB to fail spectacularly if EJ didn't. It really just comes down to some fans will give 2/3 years no matter what even if it is terrible. Don't forget, the players made it known Kyle was an upgrade. They weren't in revolt but they had terrible body language after many of EJ's throws towards the end.

 

I mean, don't you guys remember how bad it was?

Edited November 18, 2014 by MoreOffense

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I mean this is the real issue to debate. Is it really? I don't know what you would have to do as a young QB to fail spectacularly if EJ didn't. It really just comes down to some fans will give 2/3 years no matter what even if it is terrible. Don't forget, the players made it known Kyle was an upgrade. They weren't in revolt but they had terrible body language after many of EJ's throws towards the end.

Bob Woods has terrible body language regardless of who is throwing him the ball.

[26CornerBlitz]

I mean this is the real issue to debate. Is it really? I don't know what you would have to do as a young QB to fail spectacularly if EJ didn't. It really just comes down to some fans will give 2/3 years no matter what even if it is terrible. Don't forget, the players made it known Kyle was an upgrade. They weren't in revolt but they had terrible body language after many of EJ's throws towards the end.

 

In the last two games EJ started he regressed badly, but the OL play in front of him was horrible with no push in the run game and constant pressure. Plenty of young QBs would have also failed under those conditions. To act as if EJ has never played well or decently in other games is to ignore the truth.

[dayman]

In the last two games EJ started he regressed badly, but the OL play in front of him was horrible with no push in the run game and constant pressure. Plenty of young QBs would have also failed under those conditions. To act as if EJ has never played well or decently in other games is to ignore the truth.

 

Ej has roughly 4 decent games in career. The rest is bad and in spots horrid. He's put up single digit QBR twice (winning one of them...to show how useless it is to talk about wins). He was holding the team back and losing games all by himself at the end there and it was depressing the entire offense. The WRs had basically given up on life 4 games into the season b/c they obviously are in a unique position to know when it is truly hopeless.

[HOUSE]

Ej has roughly 4 decent games in career. The rest is bad and in spots horrid. He's put up single digit QBR twice (winning one of them...to show how useless it is to talk about wins). He was holding the team back and losing games all by himself at the end there and it was depressing the entire offense. The WRs had basically given up on life 4 games into the season b/c they obviously are in a unique position to know when it is truly hopeless.

 

Every team has a backup for a reason.

[26CornerBlitz]

Ej has roughly 4 decent games in career. The rest is bad and in spots horrid. He's put up single digit QBR twice (winning one of them...to show how useless it is to talk about wins). He was holding the team back and losing games all by himself at the end there and it was depressing the entire offense. The WRs had basically given up on life 4 games into the season b/c they obviously are in a unique position to know when it is truly hopeless.

 

Cool story bro. Once again you grossly exaggerate. I recall 4 very bad games in EJ's career thus far. At PIT and TB in his rookie year and vs. SD and at HOU this season. How has the 10 year vet Orton done the last two games when it counted the the most?

Edited November 18, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[8-8 Forever?]

i didn't hear the exchange but if it was his weekly segment on Howard and Jeremy, he was probably asked a loaded question about the QB situation and there was only way to answer it non controversially.

Season's shot. Gave away the KC game with fumbles. That was the game that ended the season. Put Tuel in for all I care. When you fumble away 14 points at/near the goal line it doesn't matter who the QB is. You will lose every time. Miami played well... they are pretty good team. We had the KC game won if Brown simply protects the d--n football for two seconds. We just don't have what it takes when it really matters. in that game it was ball security at critical moments when the player should have known the strip was coming. We turnovered our way to oblivion. Again. I just don't care. I am going to watch other games. The Bills are good, but just don't have what it takes to win when the moment comes.

Edited November 18, 2014 by 8and8Forever

[truth on hold]

For the season, Orton has a Total QBR of just 38.7. Only Austin Davis of the Rams (37.6), Geno Smith of the Jets (27.6), and Blake Bortles of the Jaguars (25.6) are ranked lower.

 

Yeah thanks coach for "sticking with that."

[billsfan_34]

Look, I was more then willing to give up on JP Losman, flew off the Trent Edwards Bandwagon pretty quick. I could easily see the flaws in Ryan Fitzpatrick's game but I am not giving up on Kyle Orton......Other then a mobility problem,no worse then Peyton Manning's mobility , I have seen him make every throw. Certainly defenses have figured him out but I bet you he will adjust well and perhaps some roll outs are needed. Without any real running attack its pretty obvious Buffalo will throw the ball. Fix the running game and Orton will be fine...It wasn't a surprise that Ortons game went south without Spiller and Jackson. Fred Jackson is one of the best blocking running backs in the league. Spiller was at least a player that needed to be well covered as a WR. Watkins injuries have also limited the offense the last few weeks.

 

I am the first to admit Kyle Orton needs to play better but I never expected perfection when Kyle Orton missed preseason. We need to stop flushing quarterbacks without giving them do time to be comfortable in Buffalo's Offense. I remember when people said that Tarvaris Jackson would need an entire season just to learn the playbook. Kyle Ortons deserves some more time too!

 

I am reasonably happy with Kyle Ortons game but nowhere near ready to Flush this guy..........Bring on the Jets !!!

 

This is only my opinion on Buffalo's starting quarterback but if you really feel the need to FLUSH....... feel free to use my toilet , its already over flowing with ex starting Buffalo quarterbacks.

 

 

 

 

Ortons body of work in the NFL says it all. Theres a reason hes a journeyman. Great number 2, nothing more. It is what it is at this point.

 

--

[Maury Ballstein]

I hope the bills give up on orton soon. I'd like to be able to watch the games again.

[Dorkington]

If he comes out and throws 4 TDs this weekend, all will be forgiven... until he doesn't throw any TDs the following week.

[truth on hold]

If he comes out and throws 4 TDs this weekend, all will be forgiven... until he doesn't throw any TDs the following week.

Gotta a real sick feeling jets will beat us. Rex knows defense and Orton being so one-dimensional is easy to game plan. Plenty of film now from KC and Miami how to do it. Bills first win over jets was all about Geno and his turnovers. With vick starting can't count on that. Prediction: Jets 19, Bills 11

[Agent 91]

 

 

I mean this is the real issue to debate. Is it really? I don't know what you would have to do as a young QB to fail spectacularly if EJ didn't. It really just comes down to some fans will give 2/3 years no matter what even if it is terrible. Don't forget, the players made it known Kyle was an upgrade. They weren't in revolt but they had terrible body language after many of EJ's throws towards the end.

 

I mean, don't you guys remember how bad it was?

 

Are you not seeing the same thing start I to occur with Orton?

[machine gun kelly]

The bottom line is we are stuck with Orton. House is right we need a better running game as any team who is one dimentional will lose. I believe Fred is coming back which should really help alternating with Dixon. Having Urbik in there is helpful. We don't have a first round pick next year, and EJ has proven he is not capable right now of reading defenses.

 

I'm hopeful EJ will improve in time, but he may not be a starting QB for a couple of years. Orton is a patch for this year and next year. It sucks, but we have no other options with the lack of emphasis on picking a QB in the draft for the last couple of years. When we did choose one, we chose a person who was not ready.

[26CornerBlitz]

Look, I was more then willing to give up on JP Losman, flew off the Trent Edwards Bandwagon pretty quick. I could easily see the flaws in Ryan Fitzpatrick's game but I am not giving up on Kyle Orton......Other then a mobility problem,no worse then Peyton Manning's mobility , I have seen him make every throw. Certainly defenses have figured him out but I bet you he will adjust well and perhaps some roll outs are needed. Without any real running attack its pretty obvious Buffalo will throw the ball. Fix the running game and Orton will be fine...It wasn't a surprise that Ortons game went south without Spiller and Jackson. Fred Jackson is one of the best blocking running backs in the league. Spiller was at least a player that needed to be well covered as a WR. Watkins injuries have also limited the offense the last few weeks.

 

I am the first to admit Kyle Orton needs to play better but I never expected perfection when Kyle Orton missed preseason. We need to stop flushing quarterbacks without giving them do time to be comfortable in Buffalo's Offense. I remember when people said that Tarvaris Jackson would need an entire season just to learn the playbook. Kyle Ortons deserves some more time too!

 

I am reasonably happy with Kyle Ortons game but nowhere near ready to Flush this guy..........Bring on the Jets !!!

 

This is only my opinion on Buffalo's starting quarterback but if you really feel the need to FLUSH....... feel free to use my toilet , its already over flowing with ex starting Buffalo quarterbacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

 

This is nothing more than lame excuse making for Kyle Orton. In the KC game, the running game performed very well with the OL doing some of its best work by providing several nice holes for both Brown and Dixon. The OL also did a good job in the passing game by providing excellent protection for Orton for most of the game. Other than the 1st drive when the Bills scored a TD, Orton performed poorly with him being especially bad in the red zone on several missed throws in clean pockets.

 

In the Miami game, Orton again came up small by making inaccurate throws and staring down receivers like an inexperienced QB. Bottom line is in the two biggest games of the season with prime playoff position there to be taken, he let the entire team down in a big way. Film don't lie!

[eliteqb]

EJ Manuel is a really bad NFL QB. Don't we remeber al the open receivers that he overthrew and underthrew and was just generally off target even on completions? Remember all the long ball overthrows and the out of bounds tosses? I do, it was embarrasing. His accuracy is very bad for a pro QB. He wasn't very slick in the pocket or escaping pressure. Orton is a much better QB. He has an NFL arm and accuracy. He normall hits receivers in stride, EJ rarely did. He's hit many long balls on time and with accuracy, EJ rarely did. Orton is the better QB. period.

[BillsBackersChicago]

I just can't think of an example where a QB that had huge accuracy problems early became a good passer. I would love to hear a few, and I know guys improve...but they don't really learn how to throw on the job. There's a lot that goes into being a QB but that doesn't make the act of throwing any less important, the best QBs are usually really gifted at throwing great balls.

 

Payton had a completion percentage of 56.7 as a rookie, but was allowed to let it rip and threw 575 times. He had a ton of yardage and a ton of TDs but had more INTs than TDs. His avg yds per pass was 6.5

 

In 16 games EJ had a completion percentage of 58.6%, only threw 437 times, but had more TDs than INTs. His average yds/pass was 6.4

 

I don't think Ej will be Payton, but I think what people are saying is that you can't judge a QB on his first 16 games.

 

It would be interesting to see Payton's game by game stats form his rookie year to see if he improved over the course of the season. I don' think the same could be said about EJ, although his first 14 games have been obviously very disjointed.

Edited November 18, 2014 by BillsBackersChicago

[Wraith]

Payton had a completion percentage of 56.7 as a rookie, but was allowed to let it rip and threw 575 times. He had a ton of yardage and a ton of TDs but had more INTs than TDs. His avg yds per pass was 6.5

 

In 16 games EJ had a completion percentage of 58.6%, only threw 437 times, but had more TDs than INTs. His average yds/pass was 6.4

 

I don't think Ej will be Payton, but I think what people are saying is that you can't judge a QB on his first 16 games.

 

It would be interesting to see Payton's game by game stats form his rookie year to see if he improved over the course of the season. I don' think the same could be said about EJ, although his first 14 games have been obviously very disjointed.

How about Kyle Orton himself, who had a completion percentage of 55.3% over his first 33(!) games spanning three seasons?

[first_and_ten]

If Orton is the starting quarterback next year, the Bills are going nowhere. Comparing Orton to the play of Manuel is not the standard that we need to go by. Orton has been around long enough to know what you're going to get from him. Mediocre quarterbacking. Folks, there is a reason no other team made a move to get this guy. He is a career backup. I'm certainly not going to sit here and say that Manuel will be a good quarterback some day but they used a first round pick on the guy. He needs to play the rest of this year. They need to find out if there is a glimmer of hope in the guy. What does playing Orton prove? Maybe Marrone wants to try and save his job, but the only logical thing to do is to play Manuel. Then, at years end, Whaley better be prepared to do something to get a decent starter in here. The Orton experiment is a loser.

Edited November 18, 2014 by first_and_ten

[CodeMonkey]

Gotta a real sick feeling jets will beat us. Rex knows defense and Orton being so one-dimensional is easy to game plan. Plenty of film now from KC and Miami how to do it. Bills first win over jets was all about Geno and his turnovers. With vick starting can't count on that. Prediction: Jets 19, Bills 11

I have that same sick feeling. If fast Freddie is close to 100% and Watkins is also back to almost 100% (not too sure on this one, groins sometimes take lots of time) I will feel better about it. I predict another close game with maybe a turnover deciding it. The 12th man could have a significant impact on this game as well.

[GunnerBill]

If Orton is the starting quarterback next year, the Bills are going nowhere. Comparing Orton to the play of Manuel is not the standard that we need to go by. Orton has been around long enough to know what you're going to get from him. Mediocre quarterbacking. Folks, there is a reason no other team made a move to get this guy. He is a career backup. I'm certainly not going to sit here and say that Manuel will be a good quarterback some day but they used a first round pick on the guy. He needs to play the rest of this year. They need to find out if there is a glimmer of hope in the guy. What does playing Orton prove? Maybe Marrone wants to try and save his job, but the only logical thing to do is to play Manuel. Then, at years end, Whaley better be prepared to do something to get a decent starter in here. The Orton experiment is a loser.

 

I agree with you overall sentiment. I disagree Orton's a career back up. He is a career starter for bottom feeding teams. If we start next year with him that is where we are I'm afraid.

[eliteqb]

If Orton is the starting quarterback next year, the Bills are going nowhere. Comparing Orton to the play of Manuel is not the standard that we need to go by. Orton has been around long enough to know what you're going to get from him. Mediocre quarterbacking. Folks, there is a reason no other team made a move to get this guy. He is a career backup. I'm certainly not going to sit here and say that Manuel will be a good quarterback some day but they used a first round pick on the guy. He needs to play the rest of this year. They need to find out if there is a glimmer of hope in the guy. What does playing Orton prove? Maybe Marrone wants to try and save his job, but the only logical thing to do is to play Manuel. Then, at years end, Whaley better be prepared to do something to get a decent starter in here. The Orton experiment is a loser.

Mediocre is the best we got right now. Orton may be mediocre, EJ is turrible..

[bananathumb]

I think it's a little more sensible not to give up on EJ.

Orton is Fitz#2.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Classic exaggeration IMO.

 

Orton has been flat out pathetic the last two weeks. Given his veteran status, he has zero excuses. The clock has struck 12 and the carriage has turned back into a pumpkin.

This is ridiculous. Really, players cannot have bad stretches if they are veterans(Eli Manning)? It happens. Yes he has played bad for two weeks, he apparently has a toe injury(I really do not know if that effects his play or not). This has nothing to do with EJ and no guarantee that he will play better but, the "he is a veteran" he should never have bad games in not realistic.

[keepthefaith]

EJ should play a couple more games before the season ends.

[26CornerBlitz]

This is ridiculous. Really, players cannot have bad stretches if they are veterans(Eli Manning)? It happens. Yes he has played bad for two weeks, he apparently has a toe injury(I really do not know if that effects his play or not). This has nothing to do with EJ and no guarantee that he will play better but, the "he is a veteran" he should never have bad games in not realistic.

Excuses. He came up small when the team needed him most. Best chance to win....remember?

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Excuses. He came up small when the team needed him most. Best chance to win....remember?

That has nothing to do with the argument you made. Nor do I disagree.

 

You want the say people are exaggerating on EJs performance and you are doing basically the same for Orton.

[26CornerBlitz]

That has nothing to do with the argument you made. Nor do I disagree.

 

You want the say people are exaggerating on EJs performance and you are doing basically the same for Orton.

 

So he came through in the clutch when the team needed him the last two weeks? He played well? Tell me where the exaggeration is. Forgive me if I expect more from a ten year veteran QB who was inserted into the lineup to give the team "the best chance to win". If the expectation on him is not greater, then why the hell is he playing?

Edited November 18, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[Doc]

Exactly. The Bills can lose and not score points with EJ. But at least in his case, there's still a chance he'll get better. Orton won't.

[John from Riverside]

If Orton is the starting quarterback next year, the Bills are going nowhere. Comparing Orton to the play of Manuel is not the standard that we need to go by. Orton has been around long enough to know what you're going to get from him. Mediocre quarterbacking. Folks, there is a reason no other team made a move to get this guy. He is a career backup. I'm certainly not going to sit here and say that Manuel will be a good quarterback some day but they used a first round pick on the guy. He needs to play the rest of this year. They need to find out if there is a glimmer of hope in the guy. What does playing Orton prove? Maybe Marrone wants to try and save his job, but the only logical thing to do is to play Manuel. Then, at years end, Whaley better be prepared to do something to get a decent starter in here. The Orton experiment is a loser.

 

I keep hearing this parotted again and again and again

 

WHAT DECENT STARTER IN YOU EYES DO YOU THINK WHALEY IS GOING TO GET

 

The bottom line....this is not a player problem...it is a COACHING problem....we have players all over the field on offense that are regressing and regressing badly and it is NOT a coincidence.....

 

- EJ Manuel got worse and not better

- Kyle Orton comes out with 2 strong showings then started to regress

- Robert Woods who showed promise as a rookie has regressed

- Mike Williams cant get on the field

- Players who played VERY WELL last year (Like LT Glenn) are not playing as well this year

- Our O line is very bad....worse then last year

 

 

ITS COACHING

[Dorkington]

Exactly. The Bills can lose and not score points with EJ. But at least in his case, there's still a chance he'll get better. Orton won't.

 

Hopefully the coaching staff realizes this when we are mathematically eliminated. Orton may be better right now, and give us a slightly better chance to win, but if we are missing the playoffs either way, might as well try to develop the young guy.

[thewildrabbit]

I only hope both Kyle & EJ survive the season so the next coaching staff will be able to put them to better use

[CodeMonkey]

Hopefully the coaching staff realizes this when we are mathematically eliminated. Orton may be better right now, and give us a slightly better chance to win, but if we are missing the playoffs either way, might as well try to develop the young guy.

This makes perfect sense unless Marrone thinks his job is in jeopardy this season in which case he will opt for the possibility of a few more wins. Which is obviously bad for the future of the Bills.

[billykaykay]

The maddening thing about EJ's accuracy is that it's not an issue all of the time, but you never know when it'll rear its ugly head. It seems to me it's a mechanics breakdown that he'll just have to get away from through repetition. Can he? Who knows.

It's a confidence thingie.

[papazoid]

at best, Orton is a #2.

 

but just like EJ, he will NEVER be a franchise QB (Top 10).

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Look, I was more then willing to give up on JP Losman, flew off the Trent Edwards Bandwagon pretty quick. I could easily see the flaws in Ryan Fitzpatrick's game but I am not giving up on Kyle Orton......Other then a mobility problem,no worse then Peyton Manning's mobility , I have seen him make every throw. Certainly defenses have figured him out but I bet you he will adjust well and perhaps some roll outs are needed. Without any real running attack its pretty obvious Buffalo will throw the ball. Fix the running game and Orton will be fine...It wasn't a surprise that Ortons game went south without Spiller and Jackson. Fred Jackson is one of the best blocking running backs in the league. Spiller was at least a player that needed to be well covered as a WR. Watkins injuries have also limited the offense the last few weeks.

 

I am the first to admit Kyle Orton needs to play better but I never expected perfection when Kyle Orton missed preseason. We need to stop flushing quarterbacks without giving them do time to be comfortable in Buffalo's Offense. I remember when people said that Tarvaris Jackson would need an entire season just to learn the playbook. Kyle Ortons deserves some more time too!

 

I am reasonably happy with Kyle Ortons game but nowhere near ready to Flush this guy..........Bring on the Jets !!!

 

This is only my opinion on Buffalo's starting quarterback but if you really feel the need to FLUSH....... feel free to use my toilet , its already over flowing with ex starting Buffalo quarterbacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

 

[Captain Hindsight]

at best, Orton is a #2.

 

but just like EJ, he will NEVER be a franchise QB (Top 10).

I'd take top 15

[paupmvp1995]

Definitely a huge concern. I'd like to see EJ with a real HC/OC with true understanding of modern offensive concepts that work in today's NFL.

I agree corner blitz. The Bills offense is retched. It is a dink and dunk bunch of nonsense. Today's NFL is a downfield passing game. Most teams do not even throw the 5-10 yard dumpoffs. Watching Tennessee v Pittsburgh last nite. The Titans had some good play calls for Mettenberger. He looked fairly comfortable, and was throwing most of his passes at least 15 yards down the field. And as for Big Ben, he is always letting it rip down the field. As they said on the NFL Network, you can not score Touchdowns taking 10-15 play drives. Too many chances to make a mistake. You have to get chunks of yardage.

 

I think EJ has not had a real offensive coach since coming into the league. Yes, his accuracy is poor. But I would like to see him w a coach who has a clue about offense. Right now I don't think there is a worse offensive coaching staff in the league than Marrone and company. With a good offensive game plan (and that includes using Mike Williams as more than a cheerleader) we can definitely win w Orton, and quite possibly w EJ.

 

Hopefully, Whaley and Pegula are watching this mess unfold on the field, that has become our offense. And will take the measures necessary to turn things around. We don't need a first round pick. We need an NFL head coach more than anything. Marrone is running an offense from the 1970's. What a joke.

[Mickey]

For good or ill, Orton is as good now as he is ever going to be. Having said that, he is the best QB we have on our roster and these aren't practice games. They matter. So he should start. Maybe, in time, EJ will dramatically improve but it won't happen this year, at least not soon enough to rescue us from another season of irrelevancy. Until that happens or a better guy is signed, Orton is our QB.