EJ vs Orton (stat comparison)

[Billsrhody]

At the midpoint, I thought it would interesting to look at what Kyle has done differently after taking over for EJ. They have both played 4 games to this point and have played a pretty similar slate of competition.

 

 

EJ

131 Attempts

58.0% Completion %

5 TDs

3 INTs

838 Yards

6.4 Yard Per Attempt

22.1% Attempts > 15 Yards Downfield

52 Rush Yards

6 Sacks Taken

 

 

Orton

141 Attempts

67.4% Completion %

9 TDs

3 INTs

1128 Yards

8.0 Yards Per Attempt

22.0% Attempts > 15 Yards Dowfield

5 Rush Yards

17 Sacks Taken

 

 

A couple of things stand out to me that weren't immediately obvious. The number of sacks that Orton has taken is pretty striking. It leads me to believe that Orton is much more willing to eat the ball when he doesnt see anything he likes. Thinking back to the games, that seems pretty spot on. EJ always tried to make a play even if there wasn't one available.

 

Another stat that suprised me is the % of passes attempted more than 15 yards downfield. I couldnt believe that EJ had a higher percentage. I couldnt find the completion % on those throws, but I would guess that Ortons number is much higher than EJ's.

 

Other than those two things, the stats read about what you would expect. A much higher YPA and Completion % go to show how much more success Orton is having at throwing the ball downfield with accuracy. Its safe to say that we've had a huge upgrade at QB over the past 4 games. Hopefully it continues!

 

 

Source - http://www.advancedf...rs/quarterbacks

Edited October 29, 2014 by Billsrhody

[dorquemada]

That means 28 attempts over 20 yards for EJ. Did he really do that?

[BUFFALOKIE]

Completions > 15 yards down field....

[papazoid]

At the midpoint, I thought it would interesting to look at what Kyle has done differently after taking over for EJ. They have both played 4 games to this point and have played a pretty similar slate of competition.

 

 

EJ

131 Attempts

58.0% Completion %

5 TDs

3 INTs

838 Yards

6.4 Yard Per Attempt

22.1% Attempts > 15 Yards Downfield

52 Rush Yards

6 Sacks Taken

 

 

Orton

141 Attempts

67.4% Completion %

9 TDs

3 INTs

1128 Yards

8.0 Yards Per Attempt

22.0% Attempts > 15 Yards Dowfield

5 Rush Yards

17 Sacks Taken

 

 

A couple of things stand out to me that weren't immediately obvious. The number of sacks that Orton has taken is pretty striking. It leads me to believe that Orton is much more willing to eat the ball when he doesnt see anything he likes. Thinking back to the games, that seems pretty spot on. EJ always tried to make a play even if there wasn't one available.

 

Another stat that suprised me is the % of passes attempted more than 15 yards downfield. I couldnt believe that EJ had a higher percentage. I couldnt find the completion % on those throws, but I would guess that Ortons number is much higher than EJ's.

 

Other than those two things, the stats read about what you would expect. A much higher YPA and Completion % go to show how much more success Orton is having at throwing the ball downfield with accuracy. Its safe to say that we've had a huge upgrade at QB over the past 4 games. Hopefully it continues!

 

 

Source - http://www.advancedf...rs/quarterbacks

 

sacks are Orton's weakness....which is why his QBR stats stink, compared to his very good passer rating.

 

#1- he goes down like a feather

 

#2- he doesn't see half of them coming

 

 

forgetting the stats, he is much better than EJ.

[qblax16]

completion % and sack ratio I think are connected. EJ might just throw a few more away to avoid the sacks (I think this is small portion of that, but worth mentioning that could be contributing to those stats).

 

I love me some Orton, so it's not a plug for EJ, just something to add to the convo...

[Storm Front]

I can only remember a few passes by EJ that went further than 5 yards. One was the Mike Williams 80 yarder that my grandmother could have made. Most of EJ's passes were thrown to Fred Jackson. Most of Orton's are going to Sammy and Robert.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

completion % and sack ratio I think are connected. EJ might just throw a few more away to avoid the sacks (I think this is small portion of that, but worth mentioning that could be contributing to those stats).

 

I love me some Orton, so it's not a plug for EJ, just something to add to the convo...

 

I have to think yds per throw correlates to sacks too. Reminds me of Big Ben-- guy takes a lot of sacks in order to look for bigger pass plays.

[C.Biscuit97]

Obviously, Orton is a much better passer at this point. I would hope when EJ is in his tenth year, he will be better. The fact that Orton has become a better QB with more experience is why you continue to develop EJ. Look at Orton's first 15 games: http://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/2506444/gamelogs?season=2005 51.6%, 5.1 ypa, 9 tds, 13 ints, 59.7 qb rating and a game where he threw 0 tds and 5 ints.

 

I still believe anything less than a winning record and this is a mistake. But so far, especially with the first legit win, it looks good. Hopefully, EJ is learning in the meetings and from Orton. I think we finally have a team good enough where we can sit a 1st rounder on the bench and not be forced to play him.

 

I have to think yds per throw correlates to sacks too. Reminds me of Big Ben-- guy takes a lot of sacks in order to look for bigger pass plays.

 

Except Big Ben can break out of sacks. As bad as I think Hackett is, Orton can make some negative plays on his own. They are drive killers (and it's not all on him). It's the reason we struggle to score against the Lions and Vikes despite moving the ball.

[hondo in seattle]

Nice post!

 

Orton's sacks are worrisome. I'm not sure how much I agree with Papazoid that Orton goes down like a feather and doesn't see the sacks coming. He's certainly not the most elusive QB ever. Nonetheless, he seems willing to stand there waiting for a guy to come open even as the pocket collapses around him. This can be a good thing and a bad thing. I'm guessing his patience has resulted in more yards in completions than it's lost in additional sacks.

 

Obviously, if we had better protection from our OL, we'd have fewer sacks, even with a comparatively immobile QB. We'd probably also fewer sacks if we had a running game, and a screen game.

[bobobonators]

EJ?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Obviously, Orton is a much better passer at this point. I would hope when EJ is in his tenth year, he will be better. The fact that Orton has become a better QB with more experience is why you continue to develop EJ. Look at Orton's first 15 games: http://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/2506444/gamelogs?season=2005 51.6%, 5.1 ypa, 9 tds, 13 ints, 59.7 qb rating and a game where he threw 0 tds and 5 ints.

 

I still believe anything less than a winning record and this is a mistake. But so far, especially with the first legit win, it looks good. Hopefully, EJ is learning in the meetings and from Orton. I think we finally have a team good enough where we can sit a 1st rounder on the bench and not be forced to play him.

 

 

 

Except Big Ben can break out of sacks. As bad as I think Hackett is, Orton can make some negative plays on his own. They are drive killers (and it's not all on him). It's the reason we struggle to score against the Lions and Vikes despite moving the ball.

 

This. I said the same thing when we signed Orton. His early years were bad, if not worse, than EJ. Yet he figured it out. I am hoping the same for EJ.

[uticaclub]

2-2 vs 3-1

[C.Biscuit97]

2-2 vs 3-1

 

Bill Simmons did something fairly cool breaking down wins and losses. He has legit wins and losses; ass kicking ones wins or loss, and either/ or wins or losses.

 

I would say EJ was part of one AK W, EO W, and 2 EOLs. Orton has 1 AK W, 2 EO Ws, and 1 EO L. Hopefully, the Jets game is the start of something special because we simply have more talent than a lot of teams.

[Campy]

Obviously, Orton is a much better passer at this point. I would hope when EJ is in his tenth year, he will be better. The fact that Orton has become a better QB with more experience is why you continue to develop EJ. Look at Orton's first 15 games: http://www.nfl.com/p...ogs?season=2005 51.6%, 5.1 ypa, 9 tds, 13 ints, 59.7 qb rating and a game where he threw 0 tds and 5 ints.

 

I still believe anything less than a winning record and this is a mistake. But so far, especially with the first legit win, it looks good. Hopefully, EJ is learning in the meetings and from Orton. I think we finally have a team good enough where we can sit a 1st rounder on the bench and not be forced to play him.

 

<snip>

 

Well said, Biscuit.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

Orton solid, EJ Jell-O.

[ricojes]

Should have 10 TD's...what are the red zone stats? they have to be improved as well. But stats only tell a part of the story. Orton brings leadership and command of the huddle that was desperately needed. The way his teammates talk about his week-long game preparation and film study is impressive. The confidence the offensive coaches and players have in him says a lot. It's the non-stats that are more impressive to me. I was just thinking Stevie J and Orton would make a good combination IMO. And i still haven't given up on EJ, I think Orton is a great mentor for EJ.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ricojes

[Bangarang]

EJ's stats are actually pretty impressive when you stop to think about how robotic and clueless this kid looked at times.

[atlbillsfan1975]

The stats say to me that fix the guard issue on the OL and Orton will look better in the short term.

It will also allow EJ more time to develop. I want to see 8 more reg season games of Orton and the O looking as good as they can under the play calling they are given.

[Alaska Darin]

I think people aren't recognizing the fact that Orton is basically getting ready to start the regular season. I'm basing this on the fact he had no OTAs, no training camp, no preseason games, and very few first team reps before he was handed the keys. He's going to get better if our interior OLine doesn't get him killed.

 

I was thrilled when they signed Orton because he's a gamer and he's never been on a team that has the skilled talent that the BILLS currently have. I'm not at all surprised his stats are good and he looks like an above average guy because that's what I've always seen from him. He always been a victim of his circumstances.

[JC2002]

Obviously, Orton is a much better passer at this point. I would hope when EJ is in his tenth year, he will be better. The fact that Orton has become a better QB with more experience is why you continue to develop EJ. Look at Orton's first 15 games: http://www.nfl.com/p...ogs?season=2005 51.6%, 5.1 ypa, 9 tds, 13 ints, 59.7 qb rating and a game where he threw 0 tds and 5 ints.

 

I still believe anything less than a winning record and this is a mistake. But so far, especially with the first legit win, it looks good. Hopefully, EJ is learning in the meetings and from Orton. I think we finally have a team good enough where we can sit a 1st rounder on the bench and not be forced to play him.

 

 

 

Again Ortons first 15 games are irelevant stats to compare todays qbs too as the times were totally different . Orton came into the league as a spread shotgun passer but he was drafted by a team that ran power I so he had to learn how to play under center to play for the Bears. We were running read option because of EJ who came into the league as a non passing project .

 

The minute Orton joined the broncos and was in a shotgun passing attack he immediately looked better because that's what he was already good at when he entered the pros .

 

Ej can certainly improve but we have yet to even get an idea of how his skills can translate to the NFL . In Ortons case something that was considered situational (shotgun based offense) eventually grew to be a standard.

 

This offseason we have to take a step back and actually what type of QB EJ can actually be in the NFL if any .

[bobobonators]

2 key stats that are really game-changers in my opinion:

 

Completion % and yards per attempt.

 

There is a 1.6 ypa difference between Orton and EJ. Just how large is that gap? The difference between the #1 QB in the NFL in ypa (Peyton Manning at 8.47) and #30 in the NFL (Tannehill at 6.56) is 1.91. That's the difference from the absolute best to someone ranked #30 - almost dead last. So 1.6 is light years apart.

 

Orton ranks #6 in the NFL in ypa.

 

There is 9.4 difference in completion % between Orton and EJ. Just how large is that gap? The difference between the #1 NFL QB in completion % (drew brees - 69.5%) and the #30 in the NFL (EJ and Locker at 58.0) is 11.5. A 9.4 difference is again, light years apart.

 

Orton ranks #7 in completion % in the NFL.

 

Orton does take more sacks but produces many more big plays and does so more consistently.

 

 

[Kellyto83TD]

Obviously, Orton is a much better passer at this point. I would hope when EJ is in his tenth year, he will be better. The fact that Orton has become a better QB with more experience is why you continue to develop EJ. Look at Orton's first 15 games: http://www.nfl.com/p...ogs?season=2005 51.6%, 5.1 ypa, 9 tds, 13 ints, 59.7 qb rating and a game where he threw 0 tds and 5 ints.

 

I still believe anything less than a winning record and this is a mistake. But so far, especially with the first legit win, it looks good. Hopefully, EJ is learning in the meetings and from Orton. I think we finally have a team good enough where we can sit a 1st rounder on the bench and not be forced to play him.

 

 

 

Except Big Ben can break out of sacks. As bad as I think Hackett is, Orton can make some negative plays on his own. They are drive killers (and it's not all on him). It's the reason we struggle to score against the Lions and Vikes despite moving the ball.

 

EJ won't have a 10th year. At some points his personal fans need to realize this guy doesn't have it. But then again it took JP, RJ, Trent fans years after they were done to finally get it

[eball]

EJ is going to benefit from watching the way Orton runs a huddle and the game. Everything we've come to read, hear, and see about him suggests he's a very hard worker who wants to learn. Ideally this mentor/apprentice relationship would have been struck a year ago, but we all know how Whaley and Marrone made a complete mess of the QB situation. They were incredibly fortunate to have Orton fall into their laps -- and I say better late than never. It's about time the organization had some good luck.

 

I haven't given up on EJ and neither should anyone else at this point. For now, though, and perhaps the next year or so as well, Orton is the guy who has the best chance to lead the team back into the playoffs.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

wow If I had posted this the EJ haters would have gone wild!!!!

 

the KO lovers hate EJ, want to fire Marone, Hacket and anyone else involved but their lovable hero.

 

They are also of the group that wants to trade EJ for McCoy because Colt has potential!!

 

---------------

y'all chose to give me crap for a week when I let the dead horse die. you expected me to be quiet?

 

papaziod

sacks are Orton's weakness....which is why his QBR stats stink, compared to his very good passer rating.

+1 Edited October 29, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[bobobonators]

EJ is going to benefit from watching the way Orton runs a huddle and the game. Everything we've come to read, hear, and see about him suggests he's a very hard worker who wants to learn. Ideally this mentor/apprentice relationship would have been struck a year ago, but we all know how Whaley and Marrone made a complete mess of the QB situation. They were incredibly fortunate to have Orton fall into their laps -- and I say better late than never. It's about time the organization had some good luck.

 

I haven't given up on EJ and neither should anyone else at this point. For now, though, and perhaps the next year or so as well, Orton is the guy who has the best chance to lead the team back into the playoffs.

 

I really hope so man. I too believe that EJ can benefit from this. However, I would have no problems with him benefiting from another year on the bench next season too. ;-)

 

wow If I had posted this the EJ haters would have gone wild!!!!

 

the KO lovers hate EJ, want to fire Marone, Hacket and anyone else involved but their lovable hero.

 

They are also of the group that wants to trade EJ for McCoy because Colt has potential!!

 

---------------

y'all chose to give me crap for a week when I let the dead horse die. you expected me to be quiet?

 

+1

 

Because EJ's 19.8 QBR was tearing it up...

 

Give it up man.

Edited October 29, 2014 by bobobonators

[T master]

What the experts busted on EJ about when he was coming out was his accuracy, decision making , which are probably more important in the make up of a QB than any other thing that can hurt their game .

 

EJ has the "PROTOTYPICAL" NFL QB make up , he has a big arm , good mobility , & size which is all part of the package but if you can't read oppositions D & make a sound decision where to go with the ball then lastly have the accuracy to put it where you want you will only ever be a back up in this league !!

 

If we all remember when Orton was in college he was in the Hiesmen race while at Perdue & he fell short but the guy has game managing ability & he is smart thats what you need to be a good ,not great QB in the NFL !!

Edited October 29, 2014 by T master

[bobobonators]

QBR / yards / TD's/ completion %/ ypa - Orton blows EJ away in every single category. And wins too..

 

This conversation should've died away along time ago.

[ricojes]

The number of sacks that Orton has taken is pretty striking. It leads me to believe that Orton is much more willing to eat the ball when he doesnt see anything he likes.

Obviously the O line has a lot to do with the number of sacks. The play where a Jet came in untouched from both sides of the line is just unacceptable! But it is true, Orton is not afraid to take a sack when nothing is there. He also afraid to take a big hit to give his received an extra second to get open.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ricojes

[C.Biscuit97]

EJ won't have a 10th year. At some points his personal fans need to realize this guy doesn't have it. But then again it took JP, RJ, Trent fans years after they were done to finally get it

 

Wtf do you get out of this? Seriously. You're a grown man who feels the need to rip on a 24 year old who is playing the NFL. What is your goal here? I could see if EJ was some knucklehead but all accounts he's a good guy. And I'm willing to bet he is further along in his career than you are in yours.

 

So honestly, what do you have to gain by ripping on the guy in every other post?

 

I really hope so man. I too believe that EJ can benefit from this. However, I would have no problems with him benefiting from another year on the bench next season too. ;-)

 

 

 

Because EJ's 19.8 QBR was tearing it up...

 

Give it up man.

 

Orton is 28th in QBR. There is still room for improvement.

 

Why does it have to be a fight or one or other? Orton is doing a good job. But he struggled worse than EJ did early in his career. He was the weakness of the Bears. So, now that he has grown with time, why is it wrong to hope EJ can do the same?

[bobobonators]

 

 

Wtf do you get out of this? Seriously. You're a grown man who feels the need to rip on a 24 year old who is playing the NFL. What is your goal here? I could see if EJ was some knucklehead but all accounts he's a good guy. And I'm willing to bet he is further along in his career than you are in yours.

 

So honestly, what do you have to gain by ripping on the guy in every other post?

 

 

 

Orton is 28th in QBR. There is still room for improvement.

 

Why does it have to be a fight or one or other? Orton is doing a good job. But he struggled worse than EJ did early in his career. He was the weakness of the Bears. So, now that he has grown with time, why is it wrong to hope EJ can do the same?

 

It's not a fight for one or the other b/c so far this season, there's no competition. If Orton starts playing the way EJ did and we finish 6-10 then we can begin to have this discussion. I'm a Bills fan, not an Orton or EJ fan. I don't care either way. But to rip on a guy that is clearly better than the player he replaced is a waste of time. It's an improvement - end of story.

Edited October 29, 2014 by bobobonators

[C.Biscuit97]

It's not a fight for one or the other b/c so far this season, there's no competition. If Orton starts playing the way EJ did and we finish 6-10 then we can begin to have this discussion. I'm a Bills fan, not an Orton or EJ fan. I don't care either way. But to rip on a guy that is clearly better (yes he can still improve) and has been winning is unacceptable.

 

Total agreement. I wasn't thrilled with the first 3 games but I thought Orton had his best game this week. And IMO, both guys are being hurt by coaching.

Edited October 29, 2014 by C.Biscuit97

[Captain Hindsight]

The thing most shocking to me is that Orton was somehow able to get 5 rushing yards. Dude is a statue

[Wraith]

I have to think yds per throw correlates to sacks too. Reminds me of Big Ben-- guy takes a lot of sacks in order to look for bigger pass plays.

 

In this case it really doesn't. Orton's significantly better YPA number is due almost entirely to his better completion percentage. Orton and Manuels YPC (Yards per completion) are very similar (11.8 vs. 11.1).

[ProcessAccepted]

The only stat that matters is win/loss. It's clear when you hear the WRs speak that they much prefer to have Orton throwing them the ball. We can win with Orton but Doug Whaley has to go find us our long term QB.

[ricojes]

The only stat that matters is win/loss.

Not true. The Bills wins have been embarrassing, so we really must find a way to win better....

[Storm Front]

Not true. The Bills wins have been embarrassing, so we really must find a way to win better....

 

Haha! Lol @ Bills fans. This team can't do anything right!

[Security]

Orton's sacks are likely 1 yard EJ runs.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I'm a Bills fan, not an Orton or EJ fan. I don't care either way. But to rip on a guy that is clearly better than the player he replaced is a waste of time.

then prove it and stop giving me **** for saying I think EJ may still have potential!! (which I have not done in a week or more)

Edited October 29, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[John from Riverside]

Wtf do you get out of this? Seriously. You're a grown man who feels the need to rip on a 24 year old who is playing the NFL. What is your goal here? I could see if EJ was some knucklehead but all accounts he's a good guy. And I'm willing to bet he is further along in his career than you are in yours.

 

So honestly, what do you have to gain by ripping on the guy in every other post?

 

 

 

Orton is 28th in QBR. There is still room for improvement.

 

Why does it have to be a fight or one or other? Orton is doing a good job. But he struggled worse than EJ did early in his career. He was the weakness of the Bears. So, now that he has grown with time, why is it wrong to hope EJ can do the same?

 

Kellyto83 is a sad fan indeed........I get visions of him out there with a EJ Manual big stick on and he uses it for dart practice

Edited October 29, 2014 by John from Hemet

[John Cocktosten]

EJ was not close to what Orton was in college. EJ was surrounded by ridiculous talent and had a great defense. EJ was incapable of carrying his team and Jimbo relied on him to not turn the ball over and that's it. Orton carried his college team despite and playing with zero NFL talent but had an off the charts senior year playing through injuries. And that's when the Big 10 was good.

 

I get that EJ is young and QBs can develop later in their careers (rare at best). However EJ was never a great QB in college. He was good and that's all. He wasn't Jameis, Tebow, Cam, Dak, VY or JF who single handedly made ridiculous plays to keep their teams in games. He never displayed the skills to win a football game by himself, not once. So why is he all of a suddens going to "develop" in the NFL? Because he's big? Good looking and nice? He ran a fast 40 (despite being stiff with no fluidity)? Because he throws a tight spiral? He's always been inaccurate and unable to read defenses and go through his progressions. Those two attributes are more important than anything else and EJ simply doesn't have them.