papazoid Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I thought he was ok yesterday except for the strip sack. I didn't have a huge problem with the int; the bills had to throw it a lot given that they couldn't run and you're always going to have one bad throw. Plus it occurred between the 40s, making it more or less a weak punt. The strip sack, though, was alarming. He held the ball for too long and didn't sense the pressure. That's bad quarterbacking -- RJ-like. Other than that, though, he was solid. His rating yesterday was 94.1, which is good. He pushed the ball down the field and was pretty accurate moat of the time. He's not the second coming, but he's better than what the Bills have been throwing out there the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've said this in 4 or 5 threads on QB's thus far today So let me repeat myself .... Was that a deer I saw frozen in headlights? Two INT's in two consecutive games in the 1st QRT? Did the Ghost of RJ posses KO or was it the Ghost of Trent Edwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 he's always been mediocre...it's just that he's so much better than Manuel...kind of sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) If you can't see Orton is an upgrade over EJ's play you are looking at the wrong stats. Over 300 yards last week and 299 yesterday 91 passer rating (I think I read somewhere). Yes he is making some mistakes, almost Fitz like ones kind of but he is better than either Fitz or EJ. Time will show this more, I am sure of that. Our QB wasn't the big problem yesterday, the Oline, the refs, playing maybe the best QB of all time.... yes. Orton passes the eyeball test so far IMHO. I am not saying he is great mind you or even that good but he is okay. And yes he had a bit of an off day. Edited October 13, 2014 by bowery4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Seems pretty obvious to me... Orton gives you more yardage but with that are gonna be some serious ball security issues. EJ for the most part is uber-conservative and therefore doesn't turn it over as much (although the pick-6 to Watt on a screen pass effectively benched him here). There's no way EJ can accurately throw some of those seam passes down the middle perfectly to Chandler, or the drop in the bucket pass to Woods on 4th down...or even the TD pass to Hogan. What will be interesting is if EJ ever gets back in there. He claims he will "go for it" and not hold back anymore. Even so, I don't think EJ is accurate enough to ever be considered a good QB. Bottom line- Orton can rack up some yardage and TDs but there's gonna games where he throws 2-3 picks and/or fumbles. I'd still rather have Orton as the QB Edited October 13, 2014 by zow2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 he's always been mediocre...it's just that he's so much better than Manuel...kind of sad Good way of putting it. I like to view him as a "fitz + "-- better than fitz but prone to some of the same mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 he's always been mediocre...it's just that he's so much better than Manuel...kind of sad When has EJ ever started to games with INT's in the 1st QTR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You've got to give the guy a few games. Also, it would help if our game plane showed some original thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton has 8 years experience EJ 14 games You've got to give the guy a few games. Also, it would help if our game plane showed some original thinking. same for EJ. You've got to give the guy some time to develop. Like now with the next 7 soft opponents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 That INT Orton threw reminded me of EJ's against Houston. This, in part, because it came after having had some time to plan the play. Hackett is definitely bothering me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You've got to give the guy a few games. Also, it would help if our game plane showed some original thinking. Under Hackett and Marrone, it's pretty much grounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 ej could have improved. maybe. and maybe will with his benching. orton is exactly what you saw. thing is, orton plays because coach wanted better production from the qb. he is getting that, but likely not to the extend he wanted to. if orton wins the next two he will stay in. if not, it is ej again after the bye. oh, and win or lose, another one of these stupid INTs orton throws so well he is out too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If you can't see Orton is an upgrade over EJ's play you are looking at the wrong stats. Over 300 yards last week and 299 yesterday 91 passer rating (I think I read somewhere). Yes he is making some mistakes, almost Fitz like ones kind of but he is better than either Fitz or EJ. Time will show this more, I am sure of that. Our QB wasn't the big problem yesterday, the Oline, the refs, playing maybe the best QB of all time.... yes. Orton passes the eyeball test so far IMHO. I am not saying he is great mind you or even that good but he is okay. And yes he had a bit of an off day. 10 points came off Orton turnovers in the first half. In the NFL momentum is king and Orton gave liftoff to the Patriots in a home game that was the most important game in the last 10 or so years for this franchise. To say Orton wasn't the biggest on the field problem yesterday is to be in denial. Other Bills players may have had much worse games, but other players don't play by far the most important position on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I need to see more from Orton. If we are only getting slightly better play than EJs worst games, I'd rather let EJ play and see if he gets better with experience. Yesterdays game was a huge reality check. It showed me how far we still are behind New England. We were outplayed in every facet of the game and outcoached by a wide margin. At this point, I am getting to the point where I think this is a lost season anyway. I expect big changed at OBD and I do not expect Marrone and his staff to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If you can't see Orton is an upgrade over EJ's play you are looking at the wrong stats. im not sure yardage is a better stat than total QBR, where they were both pretty rough. still need better qb play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 10 points came off Orton turnovers in the first half. In the NFL momentum is king and Orton gave liftoff to the Patriots in a home game that was the most important game in the last 10 or so years for this franchise. To say Orton wasn't the biggest on the field problem yesterday is to be in denial. Other Bills players may have had much worse games, but other players don't play by far the most important position on the field. I don't know if I would say he was the biggest problem. He made some huge mistakes. Bad INT, bad fumble, standing in pocket taking sacks, missing open receivers. All the things EJ is criticized for. But we had many other problems (which I've been saying all along). The QB gets too much blame when things are not going well. We had bad coaching, Bad OL play, Spiller missing open running lanes and fumbling, Duke Williams stinks. Far too many wide open NE receivers and too much time in the pocket for Brady. This was a team loss. But Orton needs to be better of the benching of EJ was a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 When has EJ ever started to games with INT's in the 1st QTR? Who cares, Orton is still the best option right now. This offense is moving better with Orton and you don't see the frustration in the receivers like you did when EJ was in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 oh the made up fairytale marketing gimmick QBR stat that ESPN made up 4 years ago. definitely the best barometer for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I guess it really doesn't matter. Change the Captain on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg and it still would have sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. Orton has 8 years experience EJ 14 games same for EJ. You've got to give the guy some time to develop. Like now with the next 7 soft opponents There are 4 more stages of grief you two have yet to get through. Pick up the pace..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton has 8 years experience EJ 14 games same for EJ. You've got to give the guy some time to develop. Like now with the next 7 soft opponents So you advocate not winning so EJ can grow.... I don't, win and get in the postseason. Play Orton until he is not better than EJ or replace them both with some one clearly better (like that is going to happen, hah!) 10 points came off Orton turnovers in the first half. In the NFL momentum is king and Orton gave liftoff to the Patriots in a home game that was the most important game in the last 10 or so years for this franchise. To say Orton wasn't the biggest on the field problem yesterday is to be in denial. Other Bills players may have had much worse games, but other players don't play by far the most important position on the field. The funny thing is I don't totally disagree with you but I do think that CJs fumble was the game turning point, going into halftime with the extra three and getting the kick off was killer. More than 100 yards in penalties also were not on Orton. I guess my point is it was his second game with us after no preseason and I knew who he was before we got him. He is an upgrade as I said before, no doubt in my mind. I can see it in his play, stats or not. He did have a pretty crumby game, he does that too. He is not great. im not sure yardage is a better stat than total QBR, where they were both pretty rough. still need better qb play. I don't like the stat much (liked the old one better, really), but that's just me. I agree we need better just pointing out Orton was okay (is that another way of saying mediocre?) Ooops! hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 he's always been mediocre...it's just that he's so much better than Manuel...kind of sad ^^ This. What is everyone so surprised about? This is like when people were convinced that Gailey was a great find even though he was passed up by so many other teams, then were surprised when he wasn't. Orton is what he is, and always has been, a mediocre NFL QB. This should not be a surprise to anyone. He is an improvement over how Manuel was playing, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Did anyone say that Orton was anything but mediocre? Why is this a surprise? He'll win us some games, he'll lose us some games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. Is his mediocrity a stun in revelation? Man was unemployed 3 months ago. The NFL is a QB driven league, until we gave a top 15 level talent, .500 is the best we will know... Orton us doing all he can with the limited tools he has.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 So you advocate not winning so EJ can grow.... I don't, win and get in the postseason. Play Orton until he is not better than EJ or replace them both with some one clearly better (like that is going to happen, hah!) Orton is already not better than EJ. Yes he has thrown for more yard, but the result is the same. Bad turnovers, missed receivers and losses. EJ is 2-2. Orton is 1-1. What are we getting from Orton that EJ hasn't done? Orton is a veteran who has proved over his career to be mediocre. EJ has played 14 games. Play him and develop him. The rest of the team sucks anyway and is not going anywhere. I'd rather lose with a kid than with a 31 yr old, fat JP Losman look-alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The QB played well enough yesterday for the team to win. The D did not stop NE at all in the second half. Orton is not Peyton Manning, but he is still head and shoulders above EJ at this point. No way EJ makes that TD throw to Hogan or the two point conversion throw to Woods. It wasn't his fault the Bills lost yesterday, it was the D. The offense played well enough to overcome the two Orton turnovers in the first half. If the D could have stopped NE a couple more times in the second half, it would have been a different game. Orton is already not better than EJ. Yes he has thrown for more yard, but the result is the same. Bad turnovers, missed receivers and losses. EJ is 2-2. Orton is 1-1. What are we getting from Orton that EJ hasn't done? Orton is a veteran who has proved over his career to be mediocre. EJ has played 14 games. Play him and develop him. The rest of the team sucks anyway and is not going anywhere. I'd rather lose with a kid than with a 31 yr old, fat JP Losman look-alike. Come back and talk to me in two weeks when we are 5-3 and Orton is 3-1. He is so much better than EJ it isn't even funny. No way EJ makes that TD throw to Hogan yesterday or the two point conversion to Woods. Those are throws EJ just isn't capable of making. Orton kept us in the game, it was the D that failed us yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The QB played well enough yesterday for the team to win. The D did not stop NE at all in the second half. Orton is not Peyton Manning, but he is still head and shoulders above EJ at this point. No way EJ makes that TD throw to Hogan or the two point conversion throw to Woods. It wasn't his fault the Bills lost yesterday, it was the D. The offense played well enough to overcome the two Orton turnovers in the first half. If the D could have stopped NE a couple more times in the second half, it would have been a different game. Come back and talk to me in two weeks when we are 5-3 and Orton is 3-1. He is so much better than EJ it isn't even funny. No way EJ makes that TD throw to Hogan yesterday or the two point conversion to Woods. Those are throws EJ just isn't capable of making. Orton kept us in the game, it was the D that failed us yesterday. Orton gave NE 10 point single handedly. How did he keep us in the game? I honestly don't get the blind love for this bum. He's Fitzpatrick without the beard. And Orton nearly single handedly have Detroit the game last week if their Kicker was not god awful. The excuses for him are mind blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The biggest problem on the field yesterday was the entire offense. I.e. Hackett is the problem. He's hopelessly incapable of making an adjustment based on what opposing defenses are doing. 8-9 guys in the box? Yeh, my offense says run the ball anyway on first down, so that's what we're going to do. Having success throwing to the middle of the field? OK, I see that success and raise you a delayed handoff from the shotgun position or a screen pass. I'm N.Hackett bitches. I'll do what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I don't know if I would say he was the biggest problem. He made some huge mistakes. Bad INT, bad fumble, standing in pocket taking sacks, missing open receivers. All the things EJ is criticized for. But we had many other problems (which I've been saying all along). The QB gets too much blame when things are not going well. We had bad coaching, Bad OL play, Spiller missing open running lanes and fumbling, Duke Williams stinks. Far too many wide open NE receivers and too much time in the pocket for Brady. This was a team loss. But Orton needs to be better of the benching of EJ was a waste. I was talking about the biggest problem on the field. The whole team played like crap except for a couple of players. But Orton's turnovers definitely got the momentum rolling for the Pats which they never relinquished. It's inexcusable when you're playing the Pats at home to do that. It was his performance that hurt the team the most. The biggest problem period with the Bills is the coaching. I had such high hopes for Marrone, but he coaches scared. Yesterday was it for me regarding this coaching staff. This team has talented players and they failed to show up and perform against the fading Patriots in a battle for the division lead. I fully expect that there will be a brand new regime next year and I expect that it will be lead by an established NFL coaching staff. A lot will depend on who the consultant will be. If it's Accorsi then I could see the Bills hiring Tom Coughlin if the Giants let him go at the end of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton is medicore? True, but a lot of his supporting o-line cast is well below Medicore. Imagne if one of those chumps named Lewis, Tuel, Manuel, etc. were in there? Whaley got chit ass lucky when he could snag Orton a week before the season opener. That late Move at least saved his job for the rest of this season. I am not a homer clean the GM, coaches, on down At the end final gun of game 16 this season. get some proven NFL caliber staff in here and quit hiring Newbies with "upside" when really there hirings were based on the mighty buck. But yea they all have gret personalties. Losing fanbases love to grab on to that. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 So you advocate not winning so EJ can grow.... I don't, win and get in the postseason. Play Orton until he is not better than EJ or replace them both with some one clearly better (like that is going to happen, hah!) It is far better to know this season than it is to wait 1 or 2 more to know the reality of it. this applies to you too WEO. remind me ... what was the argument you and Nee I mean Doc had years back WRT Matt Leinart is it really achievement to reach a WC only to fail again next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton in 2 games 54-87 66.7 comp % 607 total yards 304 ypg 7.49 ypa 3 tds 2 ints 90.9 qb rating and this was off the street basically The problem is not that Orton is mediocre its that some of you simply refuse to admit that some parts of our team are simply not as good as we thought they were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I know the Patriots own the Bills, but are they really a "hard" opponent this year? They've been measured for a pine box already this year and there were even a few shovels full of dirt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton gave NE 10 point single handedly. How did he keep us in the game? I honestly don't get the blind love for this bum. He's Fitzpatrick without the beard. And Orton nearly single handedly have Detroit the game last week if their Kicker was not god awful. The excuses for him are mind blowing. Yes he did commit two bad turnovers that led to 10 points. He also made some nice throws that led to all of Buffalo's points. I repeat, although he made some mistakes, it was not his play that cost us the game. It was the defense's inability to stop NE for the entire second half of the game. Stop them even a couple of times and we win the game. Not saying Orton is perfect and I certainly am not blind to his flaws, but he is a definite improvement over EJ at this point. You can't pin this loss on him. It wasn't his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalopdc Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 When has EJ ever started to games with INT's in the 1st QTR? EJ would not have taken the risks (at this point in his career) to make some of the later throws to bring the game to one score in the 4th. KO forced a 4th down completion. You take the bad and the good. Also, I would rather have an int in the 1st than in the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I thought he was ok yesterday except for the strip sack. I didn't have a huge problem with the int; the bills had to throw it a lot given that they couldn't run and you're always going to have one bad throw. Plus it occurred between the 40s, making it more or less a weak punt. The strip sack, though, was alarming. He held the ball for too long and didn't sense the pressure. That's bad quarterbacking -- RJ-like. Other than that, though, he was solid. His rating yesterday was 94.1, which is good. He pushed the ball down the field and was pretty accurate moat of the time. He's not the second coming, but he's better than what the Bills have been throwing out there the last few years. I agree with this completely, anyone expecting Orton to be a pro bowl QB will always be disappointed, but there's no doubt he's far better than Manuel. He's not the long term answer, but until they draft a good QB, he's the best option on the team. I think people are not taking into account that the guy just walked in off the street a few days before the last preseason game and didn't play much at that. for someone brand new to this team and offense, he's thrown for 600 + yards and 4 TDs in just 2 games. He looks pretty confident, and seems to be pretty accurate when he has time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 EJ would not have taken the risks (at this point in his career) to make some of the later throws to bring the game to one score in the 4th. KO forced a 4th down completion. You take the bad and the good. Also, I would rather have an int in the 1st than in the 4th. You can't predict what he would or wouldn't have done. But if we are going to try, I predict he would have avoided some of the sacks where Orton stood in the pocket like a rookie for 5 seconds and got crushed. I predict EJ would have protected the ball better than Orton because with the exception of the terrible INT to Watt, he has proven to protect the ball. And I predict that he would have gotten another game of experience against a good team and maybe learned something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 When has EJ ever started to games with INT's in the 1st QTR? That's what you're going to use a measuring point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton is a stop gap and nothing more. He gives us the best chance to win over any other QB on this team though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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