SoFFacet Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Points per game in Orton starts: 19.5. Turnovers from the qb position: 1.5 Points per game in EJ starts: 19.75 Turnovers from the qb position: .75 Trying to extract trend data from n=2 and n=4. Declining to subtract D/ST points. Using team metric (points) to analyze individual performance. Triple-facepalm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 All i know is that when we go down +10 points with Orton at QB im not praying for a miracle to happen for us to get back in the game bc god knows EJ is only good for 1 td a game. NOTHING against Ej, but this offense moves up and down the field exponentially better with Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Trying to extract trend data from n=2 and n=4. Declining to subtract D/ST points. Using team metric (points) to analyze individual performance. Triple-facepalm. EJ himself wouldn't even have used that argument. Edited October 13, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton gave NE 10 point single handedly. How did he keep us in the game? I honestly don't get the blind love for this bum. He's Fitzpatrick without the beard. And Orton nearly single handedly have Detroit the game last week if their Kicker was not god awful. The excuses for him are mind blowing. Fully agree. I hated the move to bench EJ for Kyle Freaking Orton? Are you kidding me? Desperate move by a desperate coach and if not for a ****ty kicker we are 2-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I need to see more from Orton. If we are only getting slightly better play than EJs worst games, I'd rather let EJ play and see if he gets better with experience. Yesterdays game was a huge reality check. It showed me how far we still are behind New England. We were outplayed in every facet of the game and outcoached by a wide margin. At this point, I am getting to the point where I think this is a lost season anyway. I expect big changed at OBD and I do not expect Marrone and his staff to return. You really believe that huh? You really believe that Orton the last two games has played "only slightly" better than EJ did against San Diego and Houston? This board is getting stupider and stupider. Edited October 13, 2014 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 All i know is that when we go down +10 points with Orton at QB im not praying for a miracle to happen for us to get back in the game bc god knows EJ is only good for 1 td a game. NOTHING against Ej, but this offense moves up and down the field exponentially better with Orton. until he throws INT's to start a game, then fumbles on the next drive, and when gets sacked 1/2 dozen times (yes that is an exaggeration) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirty Year Fan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton is the best QB I have seen in awhile for the Bills. I felt we really had a passing game yesterday. Mistakes? Yes, taking the sack, the pick, etc. I get those. He is knocking off the rust. The game yesterday? We were out coached. We have the talent on this roster. Our D got worn down in the first half. That being said, we are what our record states. I want to see six more wins. 10 year vets don't have rust. He is a professional athlete, man up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Do people not understand the concept that Kyle Orton actually ATTEMPTS AND COMPLETES PASSES TO WIDE RECEIEVRS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton is what he has shown himself to be; an average QB. To fans, he is just good enough to be a tease but bad enough to cause frustration and ultimate misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Do people not understand the concept that Kyle Orton actually ATTEMPTS AND COMPLETES PASSES TO WIDE RECEIEVRS? Orton is better than EJ right now. I will not dispute that but he needs to play better. This team is so talented and we are wasting it on a guy that didn't want to play football this year. Marrone better find a way to win games or he should be fired for pulling a desperate move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Orton is what he has shown himself to be; an average QB. To fans, he is just good enough to be a tease but bad enough to cause frustration and ultimate misery. Agreed. He is an average NFL QB. Actually as a starter, he's below average. But do people not grasp that EJ Manuel was playing at a level not fit for the NFL? It's not like, "oh EJ Manuel was mediocre," EJ is not an NFL QB. Kyle Orton is. Period, end of story. Did anyone notice that Orton was actually throwing passes to WIDE RECEIVERS before they made their breaks yesterday? And good ones. That were caught. This is such a dumb argument. Edited October 13, 2014 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 10 year vets don't have rust. He is a professional athlete, man up and play. ??? He did play and had us within 1 score late in the 4th quarter against the pats. The momentum was on our side up until that 3rd and 16. You should focus your anger towards the unit that allowed tom brady to throw for close to 400yds with 4td's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Do people understand that Orton (and before him Manuel) play with the ultimate handicap of only have 2 downs before they have to punt..... 1st down......is netting us like.....a YARD due to Hackett's stubborness of running CJ Spiller up the middle 2nd down - usually a long yardage situation 3rd down - Orton was converting a lot of those yesterday 4th down - punt We are LITERALLY giving away first down with no production in this offense......WTF is a QB supposed to do with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Fact is i was GIDDY on that 3rd and 16 bc i was pretty damn confident that when we got the ball back Orton would drive us for the tie. But that never happened for reasons that are obvious to most except the 10% that no matter how we lose will always put the blame right on the QB. Its like the dallas fans ripping on Romo every year when the D would give up 40pts/game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Do people understand that Orton (and before him Manuel) play with the ultimate handicap of only have 2 downs before they have to punt..... 1st down......is netting us like.....a YARD due to Hackett's stubborness of running CJ Spiller up the middle 2nd down - usually a long yardage situation 3rd down - Orton was converting a lot of those yesterday 4th down - punt We are LITERALLY giving away first down with no production in this offense......WTF is a QB supposed to do with that? Orton should just call his own plays- totally snub Hackett. If Marrone and Hackett don't like it, they can activate the great Jeff Tuel off of the PS and put him out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 10 points came off Orton turnovers in the first half. In the NFL momentum is king and Orton gave liftoff to the Patriots in a home game that was the most important game in the last 10 or so years for this franchise. To say Orton wasn't the biggest on the field problem yesterday is to be in denial. Other Bills players may have had much worse games, but other players don't play by far the most important position on the field. I stated this yesterday and got told I hade no football acumen. Orton is Orton, We don't know what EJ can be. The problem is Marrone and Whaley want to win now and we can't.The whole team in general seemed to have no spark except for Chandler and the D- Line for a part of a series.......SAD.....SBDY+Same Bills, Different year. I live in Charlotte and have decided to start making the Panthers game the priority because this team isn't going anywhere:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfk Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Jeezuz..give him a chance ...he's been a Bill for how many weeks...a couple of weeks ago Brady was mediocre or worse...let him get on the same page with these receivers..let him get a feel for the game again if anyone is mediocre it is a front office that placed so much faith in a mediocre QB coming out of college and continually scrambles for a plan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton should just call his own plays- totally snub Hackett. If Marrone and Hackett don't like it, they can activate the great Jeff Tuel off of the PS and put him out there. As much as I agree, that's a good way of finding himself out of a starting job and possibly being on the team. Sure he might end up winning more games that way but would probably end up getting chucked if he did it enough and cost them games also. At least by doing what the coach calls, it's the coaches fault and not his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 This team is so talented and we are wasting it on a guy that didn't want to play football this year. Might be the dumbest thing I've read yet. If he didn't want to play football, why has he started the past two games for the Bills? Did that celebration at the end of the Detroit game look like a guy with no passion that doesn't want to play football? How about when Orton kicked the punt team off the field and converted on that 4th down bomb? Even if he was just in it for the paycheck, why not just pull a Michael Vick and willfully sabotage yourself so that you ensure you'll never see the field again? He wanted out of Dallas because he wanted the opportunity to compete as a starting quarterback in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Might be the dumbest thing I've read yet. If he didn't want to play football, why has he started the past two games for the Bills? Did that celebration at the end of the Detroit game look like a guy with no passion that doesn't want to play football? How about when Orton kicked the punt team off the field and converted on that 4th down bomb? Even if he was just in it for the paycheck, why not just pull a Michael Vick and willfully sabotage yourself so that you ensure you'll never see the field again? He wanted out of Dallas because he wanted the opportunity to compete as a starting quarterback in the NFL. Yeah he wanted to compete. Thats why he signed as soon as camp was over He pulled a Farve without the talent and is now schooling us for 11 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterthegator Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Sit back and enjoy Bills fans, the fans called for Orton, you've got him. We will perhaps make a road Wild Card (at best) but more likely go around.500 and have no first rounder. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Sit back and enjoy Bills fans, the fans called for Orton, you've got him. We will perhaps make a road Wild Card (at best) but more likely go around.500 and have no first rounder. Awesome. I don't get this post. What? We'd be better off going 4-12 with Manuel and no first rounder? At least with Orton we stay in the hunt and avoid the ugliness of a full-fledged player revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Do people not understand the concept that Kyle Orton actually ATTEMPTS AND COMPLETES PASSES TO WIDE RECEIEVRS? Apparently not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Defending Orton is a bit silly to me. The team is supposed to be a run first and play good defense. So far he has cost the team just as many points as he has generated. If not for a miraculous catch by watkins his 300 yards against Detroit would have been meaningless. Yes he is more accurate with the ball. But the team is no better with him at QB. Can he get better with more time with the starters? I hope. He probably is still a better option than EJ for the next few games but he is not even average at this point. Posters asked for average play not critical turnovers and horrible sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Defending Orton is a bit silly to me. The team is supposed to be a run first and play good defense. So far he has cost the team just as many points as he has generated. If not for a miraculous catch by watkins his 300 yards against Detroit would have been meaningless. Yes he is more accurate with the ball. But the team is no better with him at QB. Can he get better with more time with the starters? I hope. He probably is still a better option than EJ for the next few games but he is not even average at this point. Posters asked for average play not critical turnovers and horrible sacks. Critical turnovers? Like ones at the end of the game in a 2 minute drill? I don't think anyone has any idea what average QB play looks like. Edited October 13, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton is average. "Average" is a MAJOR upgrade over EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I don't get this post. What? We'd be better off going 4-12 with Manuel and no first rounder? At least with Orton we stay in the hunt and avoid the ugliness of a full-fledged player revolt. Only those who think KO is better than EJ assume 4-12 Defending Orton is a bit silly to me. The team is supposed to be a run first and play good defense. So far he has cost the team just as many points as he has generated. If not for a miraculous catch by watkins his 300 yards against Detroit would have been meaningless. Yes he is more accurate with the ball. But the team is no better with him at QB. Can he get better with more time with the starters? I hope. He probably is still a better option than EJ for the next few games but he is not even average at this point. Posters asked for average play not critical turnovers and horrible sacks. +1+1 the KO bandaid will not fix this team long term. Edited October 13, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Defending Orton is a bit silly to me. The team is supposed to be a run first and play good defense. So far he has cost the team just as many points as he has generated. If not for a miraculous catch by watkins his 300 yards against Detroit would have been meaningless. Yes he is more accurate with the ball. But the team is no better with him at QB. Can he get better with more time with the starters? I hope. He probably is still a better option than EJ for the next few games but he is not even average at this point. Posters asked for average play not critical turnovers and horrible sacks. Please provide a breakdown on how exactly this is even remotely true? Also, Waktins can only make the catch if the ball is thrown to him and how many rushing yards have they gained in the past 2 weeks with run first team? Edited October 13, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Please provide a breakdown on how exactly this is even remotely true? Also, Waktins can only make the catch if the ball is thrown to him and how many rushing yards have they gained in the past 2 weeks with run first team? Because when Orton drives all the way to the 2 and Freddy runs it in, Orton did nothing for those points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yeah he wanted to compete. Thats why he signed as soon as camp was over He pulled a Farve without the talent and is now schooling us for 11 million Actually, yes. If you wanted to gauge your best opportunity to land a starting position, it makes sense to let preseason play out and see which team has the greatest need at QB. Seems to have worked out well for Orton, no? Starting QB on a relatively talented team in the playoff hunt. Because when Orton drives all the way to the 2 and Freddy runs it in, Orton did nothing for those points. lol. exactly. and am i the only one who has noticed how we seem to be scoring TDs now inside of the redzone? I think we're 4 of 5 (and 4 of our last 4) under Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Who cares, Orton is still the best option right now. This offense is moving better with Orton and you don't see the frustration in the receivers like you did when EJ was in. Orton's numbers would have been great had WRs not taken chippy stupid penalties. And we would have scored more points. Defense got blown up in this game, plain and simple. Not having Aaron Williams was a killer vs. Pats TEs. Helluva game not to have AW. But Pats do that to pretty much everyone. We will see, Brady can't do everything and they are getting pretty banged up. We came out healthy I think. It's a long season. Edited October 13, 2014 by 8and8Forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Actually, yes. If you wanted to gauge your best opportunity to land a starting position, it makes sense to let preseason play out and see which team has the greatest need at QB. Seems to have worked out well for Orton, no? Starting QB on a relatively talented team in the playoff hunt. lol. exactly. and am i the only one who has noticed how we seem to be scoring TDs now inside of the redzone? I think we're 4 of 5 (and 4 of our last 4) under Orton. Plus the 2 point conversion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I thought orton played good enough to win if defense would of made some plays. Roby drops a pick six and brady holds on to it with a huges sack. Orton most of had 30 to 40 yards in offense pi penalties. I one on sammy where woods caught the ball was crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 the KO bandaid will not fix this team long term. I think you should take solace in the fact that KO is not setting the bar very high and if EJ can get his confidence it will be easy for him to get on the field. I think very few people consider KO a long term solution, but with ownership changing and our front office slashing each others and the players throats right now, I suggest looking for EJ on the field will wait until we're out of the playoff race this year or possibly next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I don't get this post. What? We'd be better off going 4-12 with Manuel and no first rounder? At least with Orton we stay in the hunt and avoid the ugliness of a full-fledged player revolt. That was the key thing for me. When we traded for Sammy, we kissed the "let players develop, then we'll play for the draft pick" theory goodbye. No reason to take a 4-12 or 6-10 over the chance at an 8-8 or (a stretch) even a 9-7 and a shot at a playoff spot. Orton IS mediocre! That's why he's playing; the other guy sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I dont understand how any of these QB's can effectively function when we CANT RUN THE FOOTBALL Ditto. CJ is not panning out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. dahhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton is the best QB I have seen in awhile for the Bills. I felt we really had a passing game yesterday. Mistakes? Yes, taking the sack, the pick, etc. I get those. He is knocking off the rust. The game yesterday? We were out coached. We have the talent on this roster. Our D got worn down in the first half. That being said, we are what our record states. I want to see six more wins. Agree due to turnovers leaving the D on the field too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Agree due to turnovers leaving the D on the field too much. Time of possession was NE 30:20 Bills 29:40 they were not on the field that long they shot themselves in the foot with blown coverages in long yardage situations and stupid penalties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts