dollars 2 donuts Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You've got to give the guy a few games. Also, it would help if our game plane showed some original thinking. Oh, you're only saying that because it's 100% true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Orton is a solid QB with the mobility of a statue. He has a good arm, accurate and a career QB rating of 90. The guy is a short term solution. CJ is the whipping boy but yesterday he was on the field for 12 snaps out of 66. Hackett does not know how to use him. The running game is grinding to a halt and is now ranked 21st while the passing game is up to 15th. Might go to a pass first, run second offense. With Orton the Bills have a good chance to go 9-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Take out Spiller's return TD and you've got 18 ppg for Manuel. Also consider how many short fields the defense gave Manuel to work with versus what we've seen since Orton has taken over. For instance, 4 of our scoring drives against Miami came from when we started at approximately midfield or better. Against Chicago we had 3 scoring drives from midfield or better, including a 7 yard touchdown "drive." Compare that with Orton who has never once yet started a drive in opponent's territory. And has an average drive start of our own 24 yard line through 2 games. So we don't count the 3 turnovers the defense got against Detroit to help Orton? Say you take out Spiller's return and Manuel is averaging 18 points per game. So a guy with 14 games is averaging 1.5 less points than a 8 year veteran. What an upgrade. Also, and no one will ever give him credit, but EJ helped the running game. We're just spinning our wheels with a career .500 qb when we had a 24 year old .500 qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 So we don't count the 3 turnovers the defense got against Detroit to help Orton? Say you take out Spiller's return and Manuel is averaging 18 points per game. So a guy with 14 games is averaging 1.5 less points than a 8 year veteran. What an upgrade. Also, and no one will ever give him credit, but EJ helped the running game. We're just spinning our wheels with a career .500 qb when we had a 24 year old .500 qb. Where are you getting three turnovers? It was two including the last play of the game which was meaningless. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 So we don't count the 3 turnovers the defense got against Detroit to help Orton? Say you take out Spiller's return and Manuel is averaging 18 points per game. So a guy with 14 games is averaging 1.5 less points than a 8 year veteran. What an upgrade. Also, and no one will ever give him credit, but EJ helped the running game. We're just spinning our wheels with a career .500 qb when we had a 24 year old .500 qb. EJ Manuel is not accurate, and accuracy is the most important quarterbacking skill. I don't have much expectation that this will change, and I suspect the team doesn't either. If they honestly don't think his accuracy will improve from where it is now (and it's basement level), he's done here. I hope that's not the case, but I won't be surprised if that happens. My understanding is that accuracy tends to be pretty stable over a player's career. Where are you getting three turnovers? It was two including the last play of the game which was meaningless. Try again. That is correct. The other turnover put us at about the Bills' own 40 yard line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Where are you getting three turnovers? It was two including the last play of the game which was meaningless. Try again. It was 2. My bad. And that was the best game the defense played all year. And we should have lost. Is Orton a better passer than EJ at this point? Of course. Are we putting more points on the board? Not really. SOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Time of possession was NE 30:20 Bills 29:40 they were not on the field that long they shot themselves in the foot with blown coverages in long yardage situations and stupid penalties Here's a novel idea: if the defense doesn't want to be on the field too long, how about getting the phuck off the field by themselves? Or, how about helping your offense by getting the ball back? This idea that the offense is responsible for the defense is absurd. GO BILLS!!! Edited October 13, 2014 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) It was 2. My bad. And that was the best game the defense played all year. And we should have lost. Is Orton a better passer than EJ at this point? Of course. Are we putting more points on the board? Not really. SOS. The offense is putting more points on the board. If you do not see the offense is more productive since the change I do not know what you are watching. Edited October 13, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 So we don't count the 3 turnovers the defense got against Detroit to help Orton? There were 2 TO's. An int that started the Bills at their own 49 and a fumble recovery to end the game, so, no....as BrownBear said, no drives started in Lions territory. Say you take out Spiller's return and Manuel is averaging 18 points per game. So a guy with 14 games is averaging 1.5 less points than a 8 year veteran. What an upgrade. Also, and no one will ever give him credit, but EJ helped the running game. We're just spinning our wheels with a career .500 qb when we had a 24 year old .500 qb. A veteran who showed up off the street a week before the season started and has stepped in to average 300 a game and complete 67% of his passes for 7.5 an attempt with guys he barely knows yet. Yeah, that is, unfortunately, an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The offense is putting more points on the board. If you do not see the offense is more productive since the change I do not know what you are watching. Not exactly with 39 (17 & 22) points in the last two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 no one will ever give him credit, but EJ helped the running game. Really? Got weed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Time of possession was NE 30:20 Bills 29:40 they were not on the field that long they shot themselves in the foot with blown coverages in long yardage situations and stupid penalties Didn't notice that. Good call. Curious what it was in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I hate to actually say this... but he needs to learn to check down. He took some bad sacks that could have been avoided had he looked for a dump-off guy. Other than that, he was pretty solid on those 10-15 yard throws. It's been a while since we had a QB that can make that throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I thought Orton played pretty well yesterday. The first half was pretty shaky with the sacks and turnovers, but he still made some plays and he was pretty damn good in the second half. He overcame a lot of penalties to sustain drives and that drive to make it a one score game in the fourth was pretty impressive. I'm not suggesting it was a stellar outing, but better than what we've seen out of Buffalo QBs over the past decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. Yesterday they were plagued with absolute **** for Defense. NO pass rush, M williams is the one needing traded and NO secondary help at all. Gilmore = another Nix bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yesterday they were plagued with absolute **** for Defense. NO pass rush, M williams is the one needing traded and NO secondary help at all. Gilmore = another Nix bust. Dear Lord this is crazy. Mario Has been an all pro this yeAr. He's no Jordan Palmer but he is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 There were 2 TO's. An int that started the Bills at their own 49 and a fumble recovery to end the game, so, no....as BrownBear said, no drives started in Lions territory. A veteran who showed up off the street a week before the season started and has stepped in to average 300 a game and complete 67% of his passes for 7.5 an attempt with guys he barely knows yet. Yeah, that is, unfortunately, an upgrade. But how many of them were air yards? That's the big question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I am not sure what all the fuss is about. EJ was playing terribly. Orton is a mediocre player with more experience than talent. I don't really see how either of those points could be credibly denied. But so what? It's not as if we have another option here. We either start EJ or we start Orton, neither of them are very good and though there is still some slim hope that EJ can be a quality starter in the future, he is certainly not anywhere near there yet. Orton probably gives you a better chance at winning games this season but he is no long term answer. Face it, we have two quarterbacks and neither of them are quality starters in this league and there is no white knight hiding on the roster or some other teams' practice squad who can rescue us from this situation. Arguing over who should start is like arguing over which is best, Burger King or McDonalds. They both suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Dear Lord this is crazy. Mario Has been an all pro this yeAr. He's no Jordan Palmer but he is pretty good. This made me laugh. That was a classic thread. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I am not sure what all the fuss is about. EJ was playing terribly. Orton is a mediocre player with more experience than talent. I don't really see how either of those points could be credibly denied. But so what? It's not as if we have another option here. We either start EJ or we start Orton, neither of them are very good and though there is still some slim hope that EJ can be a quality starter in the future, he is certainly not anywhere near there yet. Orton probably gives you a better chance at winning games this season but he is no long term answer. Face it, we have two quarterbacks and neither of them are quality starters in this league and there is no white knight hiding on the roster or some other teams' practice squad who can rescue us from this situation. Arguing over who should start is like arguing over which is best, Burger King or McDonalds. They both suck. what is the line to be a quality starter in the NFL because this board is all over the place . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 what is the line to be a quality starter in the NFL because this board is all over the place . Somewhere between pro bowler and hall of famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Not exactly with 39 (17 & 22) points in the last two games. You're right. 39 isn't more than the 27 (10 and 17) that Manuel put up in his last two starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You're right. 39 isn't more than the 27 (10 and 17) that Manuel put up in his last two starts. Right, because the points in the1st two weeks don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Somewhere between pro bowler and hall of famer. Pretty sure arguable GOAT status qb = quality starter. So you've got Manning and Brady as clear quality starters, and guys like Rodgers, Brees and Luck as passable stopgap types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Dear Lord this is crazy. Mario Has been an all pro this yeAr. He's no Jordan Palmer but he is pretty good. Mario was awesome yesterday. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yesterday they were plagued with absolute **** for Defense. NO pass rush, M williams is the one needing traded and NO secondary help at all. Gilmore = another Nix bust. Have you ever made a post that was legit? You can't in any way justify this garbage statement as you not just trolling. Mario is the one who needs trading? You week after week just say the most absurd things, and usually do them over and over again. If you actually believe them, well then I don't know what to tell you. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you sit in some dark basement as a professional troller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Only those who think KO is better than EJ assume 4-12 +1 +1 the KO bandaid will not fix this team long term. So to be clear, BillsFan-4-Ever, are you intimating that Kyle Orton the last two weeks has not played at a higher level than EJ Manuel had been playing? Does anyone else here believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 All i know is that when we go down +10 points with Orton at QB im not praying for a miracle to happen for us to get back in the game bc god knows EJ is only good for 1 td a game. NOTHING against Ej, but this offense moves up and down the field exponentially better with Orton. agree he will get better he's still shaking off not playing no camp, no preseason, just off the couch. I'm not sure what we think quarterbacks around the NFL look like. We hear names but do we watch them play? Matt Ryan ?? are you serious, Russel Wilson and when your defense doesn't hold the opponent to 10 points and Lynch doesn't run for 130 yds umm ya, Stafford ??? NO THANKS, Eli ? not unless I get the great giants defenses they won super bowls with, can go on and on and those are ones that have a good name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. He has made some good plays, but is horrible protecting the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. Orton is a lovable mediocre . lets not get down on him. He is all we have now . Lets just root for him for the heck of it He has made some good plays, but is horrible protecting the ball. Might be alittle nervous ? Lotta pressure . Literally and figuratively i suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofGailey Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) IF you expected him to perform like Peyton Manning then you set the bar way too high....He's better than Manuel because he has experience and his accuracy is more consistent. Edited October 13, 2014 by GhostofGailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I thought Orton played pretty well yesterday. The first half was pretty shaky with the sacks and turnovers, but he still made some plays and he was pretty damn good in the second half. He overcame a lot of penalties to sustain drives and that drive to make it a one score game in the fourth was pretty impressive. I'm not suggesting it was a stellar outing, but better than what we've seen out of Buffalo QBs over the past decade. I don't know that you can say a guy played well when he committed two turnovers and couldn't sense the rush coming for beans. He made some good plays. But I only would have said he played well if they got the victory despite these errors. He made some plays, and he certainly made some that he'd like to have back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't know that you can say a guy played well when he committed two turnovers and couldn't sense the rush coming for beans. He made some good plays. But I only would have said he played well if they got the victory despite these errors. He made some plays, and he certainly made some that he'd like to have back. that applies to basically 90% of the qbs who played this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 that applies to basically 90% of the qbs who played this week Did 90% of the QBs that played this week lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RK_BillsFan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Orton did not lose the game for us. Poor choices by coaching, and other players not stepping up or making mistakes. Lets not forget our D did not help Worst game of the year for our D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Did 90% of the QBs that played this week lose? no but they all make good and bad plays and a turnover does not mean you didn't play well just as not having a turnover doesn't mean you played well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Orton did not lose the game for us. Poor choices by coaching, and other players not stepping up or making mistakes. Lets not forget our D did not help Worst game of the year for our D The D was bad, but if you think that committing 2 of 3 turnovers that led directly to points wasn't, um, also bad, then I am very surprised to say the least. no but they all make good and bad plays and a turnover does not mean you didn't play well just as not having a turnover doesn't mean you played well . How about two? In a game where the other side committed none? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The D was bad, but if you think that committing 2 of 3 turnovers that led directly to points wasn't, um, also bad, then I am very surprised to say the least. How about two? In a game where the other side committed none? Oh so he didn't play like Brady, that means he didn't play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The D was bad, but if you think that committing 2 of 3 turnovers that led directly to points wasn't, um, also bad, then I am very surprised to say the least. How about two? In a game where the other side committed none? mistakes happen and there are rarely perfect games in the NFL but we are down 8 with 7 minutes left so regardless of how many turnovers the pats had we were in the game . But even the pick did not lead directly to a score as the pats started from their own 39 and the penalty by the defense is what moved them 30 yards to the 1 . You are talking as if the pick setup a walk in score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 He is who we thought he was. . . and we let 'em off the hook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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