A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[26CornerBlitz]

Everyone down on chandler read this... EJ's running td was courtesy of chandler sealing and dominating his blocking assignment. Yeah less than great receiving today but he's been the best and is still the best TE on this roster... For now

 

That's the best block I've ever seen Chandler make. Not usually his strong suit.

[Fixxxer]

McKelvin gave up to two easy first downs on 3rd and short to Holmes running quick slants. On those two plays he gives a big cushion to Holmes, I would like to know what the defensive call is for that kind of situation.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Fixxxer

[MClem06]

Oh and the only non impressive parts for me was Preston brown lack of awareness / out of position and ej's deep balls thrown 0 for 1 when he had watkins open. Excellent game management and way to not make bad decisions with the ball. Penalties were killer , that game would not have been as close if we didn't give their team over 100 yds in penalties.

[JohnC]

 

Robey is a ridiculously skilled player. Fundamentally, he's probably the best player on the team. We're very lucky to have him.

 

You can't teach football instincts. Kelvin Shepperd is a testament to that notion. Robey has impeccable field vision and he is a tough player. Whaley has come up with some tremendous value picks in Robey and Henderson. Getting some unexpected nuggest is how you enhance your roster.

[Kelly the Dog]

You can't teach football instincts. Kelvin Shepperd is a testament to that notion. Robey has impeccable field vision and he is a tough player. Whaley has come up with some tremendous value picks in Robey and Henderson. Getting some unexpected nuggest is how you enhance your roster.

You're right. Fundamentally is one thing. But just football instincts and being a playmaker are two different things.

[BobbyC81]

Williams, Woods & Watkins were very good! I'd say exceptional, given the off the mark passes they caught. Chandler isn't as good, though he 'shouldof' caught a drive killing drop that was expectedly off the mark.

 

 

Those "go up and get it" catches by Woods and Mike Williams were awesome. Should've put a smile on Buddy's face.

[26CornerBlitz]

Those "go up and get it" catches by Woods and Mike Williams were awesome. Should've put a smile on Buddy's face.

 

Did Goodwin take the field at all today? I can't recall seeing him in on any play.

Edited September 8, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[Pills -N- Bills]

Williams, Woods & Watkins were very good! I'd say exceptional, given the off the mark passes they caught. Chandler isn't as good, though he 'shouldof' caught a drive killing drop that was expectedly off the mark.

 

The team has true NFL talent just about everywhere, and should be competitive game in and out. Manuel's lifelong lack of Touchdown experience reared its ugly head in the childish way he celebrated his bootleg score and behind the LOS toss CJ took wide open to pay dirt. Act like ya been there -even if you haven't!

 

Special Teams was outstanding, kick coverage, punts, FG's and KO's.

 

The DB's shown, IMO. Yes, Chicago has fantastic receivers. Most teams -including us, do. The strip fumble speaks to their blanket coverage abilities, sans a blown assignment on the Bears opening drive.

 

LB play seemed unheralded, but overall effective, both in run and coverage.

TE & QB. Either, or both, will hurt us -unless well hidden.

Disagree completely ab ej and his " childish celebration". Don't see what was childish ab it at all and if that's what he wants to do after he scores so be it.

[BRAWNDO]

Did Goodwin take the field at all today? I can't recall seeing him in on any play.

 

Yes on EJ's INT he was the intended target

[Dennis in NC]

Was a pleasant surprise to have punting that actual helped not hurt us today.

And Jordan Gay was good on kickoffs, and can also punt or place-kick if there is an injury in those areas. Good pickup.

 

What a happy day.

[DC Tom]

The team has true NFL talent just about everywhere, and should be competitive game in and out. Manuel's lifelong lack of Touchdown experience reared its ugly head in the childish way he celebrated his bootleg score and behind the LOS toss CJ took wide open to pay dirt. Act like ya been there -even if you haven't!

 

Thurman's TD celebrations were always my favorite: trot up to the ref and hand him the ball as though to say "Here's another one."

 

All the same...I don't begrudge others their chosen celebrations. It's a relatively trivial thing.

[RuntheDamnBall]

The WR's made EJ look better. To your points Williams and Woods made some great catches in very clutch situations. Woods could have an amazing year.

And this never happens for Tom Brady, right? Dudes never catch balls that are destined for the ground. There are no bad completions unless they result in a forced fumble or a loss. Can we expect more and better? Sure. Why not?

 

Disagree completely ab ej and his " childish celebration". Don't see what was childish ab it at all and if that's what he wants to do after he scores so be it.

If he weren't childish he would be too cool and calm. The hit parade never ends. I don't mind attitude as long as it's not directed toward another player. Something playful directed at the fans is no big deal. It's entertainment.

[boyst]

5) I thought Dead lyrics were always #7?

 

7) Woods, Williams and Watkins for a long time.

 

8) I am glad you mentioned it. I did not like it but I did not hate it. We got by and it was not awful. Maybe that is because we are so used to such awful piss poor play but I will not complain because it was better then last year.

 

9) Corey Graham earned a starting position. Just not sure if that is McKelvins spot or Gilmores. Scheme makes a big difference.

 

 

12) Hard to say what I want here. With Graham and Gilmore do we move McKelvin to the slot and bump Robey?! Robey played phenomenolly today. McKelvin should have had that INT.

 

13) We have a new personality this year. SJ13 made a difference for us and was important but he also was our defining character. It's gone, they get to step up however they want. Robert Woods is THE Bills WR.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Did Goodwin take the field at all today? I can't recall seeing him in on any play.

 

He was the intended target on EJ's interception.

 

If he weren't childish he would be too cool and calm. The hit parade never ends. I don't mind attitude as long as it's not directed toward another player. Something playful directed at the fans is no big deal. It's entertainment.

 

It's sickening how a very small percentage of Bills' "fans" actually want the QB to fail so tht they can be right about him--to the point that they refuse to give any credit at all an actually work to see negatives that aren't even there.

 

It's an embarrassment to fans everywhere.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Everyone down on chandler read this... EJ's running td was courtesy of chandler sealing and dominating his blocking assignment. Yeah less than great receiving today but he's been the best and is still the best TE on this roster... For now

I noticed this, too. I still wish we had better, but this is not Chandler's fault. Still, those hands tho.

[JohnC]

EJ has a lot of natural skills and physical attributes. What he needs is experience and success and wins and the confidence that comes with those three things. If some of his completions were not the most accurate passes it doesn't really matter. He is not going to be Brady or Rodgers as far as accuracy goes. He's just not. He can be very good though, and this was a big step in his confidence.

 

As you astutely noted EJ is not going to be a prolific passer with exceptionall accuracy like Rodgers or Brady. That is simply not his game or will ever be his game. He reminds me of Steve McNair from a stature standpoint and the type of game he plays.

 

My sense of him is that he is not the type of player who is going to make the quantum leap but will steadily get better the more he plays (as you noted). The play calling for him can be described as being cautious. Although I get frustrated with it (prefer more downfield throws) it is probably the right approach to take.

Edited September 8, 2014 by JohnC

[Slut Monkey]

9) How many of you missed Gilmore? I am curious. Corey Graham looked pretty damned good from where I sat.

 

 

12) McKelvin had a rough outing. I hope he improves.

 

12 is why 9. (That is, McKelvin's outing is why I missed Gilmore.)

Edited September 8, 2014 by Slut Monkey

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

As you astutely noted EJ is not going to be a prolific passer with exceptionall accuracy like Rodgers or Brady. That is simply not his game or will ever be his game. He reminds me of Steve McNair from a stature standpoint and the type of game he plays.

 

My sense of him is that he is not the type of player who is going to make the quantum leap but will steadily get better the more he plays (as you noted). The play calling for him can be described as being cautious. Although I get frustrated with it (prefer more downfield throws) it is probably the right approach to take.

Yep, I agree on all counts. I would have liked to see them air out a couple more deep throws. Barely missed to Watkins the one time EJ went deep. Err on the side of overthrowing Goodwin or Watkins and let them go get it... Keeps the D honest.

[Augie]

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

Oh my gosh. I am so sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you and your family, and I hope your son is OK. Family definitely comes first. All the best to you.

[boyst]

They mentioned he's the oldest RB in the league. He certainly doesn't play like it. That was a monstrous stiff-arm he gave. He's a wicked combination of power and grace, and I'm not sure he's started to lose a step yet.

 

Amazing, too. EVERY PERSON covering that mentioned him being the oldest. Sal said it best on WGR - every year we bring in young RB's and expect them to unseat FJ. They never do. And of those Anthony Dixon, wow!

 

4] Henderson wasn't perfect but it was a huge sign that the actual live bullets wasn't too big for him.

 

7] Brown had some slips and some bad plays but looked okay as backup. Bradham will be welcomed back.

 

8] Spikes is still a stud.

 

4) Did Jared Allen even dress? Or did he and CJ just sit this one out?

 

7) Can't believe it and it'll be a year too late but I welcome Bradham back and I think he really steps out this year. Can't wait for 2014 - Bradham, Alonso, and maybe Spikes. Rivers, Brown and Lawson helping out, too. YES!

 

8) And we got the penalty we knew we would. I am not upset with it but figure if we can get 1 penalty every 2 games from him than it's ok.

 

 

Couple of comments to offer:

 

I didn't think Chris Williams was that bad. I admittedly wasn't focusing on it all that much and maybe playing alongside Glenn helped him look good, but I though he did a decent job in pass protection and a couple of times when it looked like Williams had whiffed on a run block looking at the replay I thought Wood was the one easily beaten and Williams essentially double teamed. I thought Wood and Pears both had questionable games and Henderson was a little bit up a little bit down, some good things a few mistakes (to be expected). I will look back at some of it tomorrow and look just at the line... it is hard when your eye is focused on the ball so I might be wrong.

 

On the play calling - I'll give Hackett his due, I think the first half he called a nice game. EJ was a bit late on the throw on the first drive (still think a better TE than Chandler catches it mind you), then he called a nice second drive and the drive before the half was nicely called until the PI penalty on Chandler for finishing a block set them back. Without that call we are very least in at 20-7 rather than 17-7. I liked both of the touchdown play calls too. I actually called the EJ zone read keeper for the first one... that was the perfect play.

 

However, in the second half I thought he called a horrible 3rd quarter and it comes down to something I've said about him before. I don't know how much feel he has for the momentum of a football game. The run, run, pass was predictable, the Bears had the momentum their tails were up, we had thrown a pick.... I thought he should have come straight back and taken a shot. That's what I think the best instinctive offensive play callers in the league do... the Sean Peyton's the Chip Kelly's, hell the Josh McDaniel's even. They try and find a play there that moves us up the field 20-40 yards and changes that momentum again. He got too passive and the old "prevent offense" is a great term.... But to be fair he called some good plays on the final 4th quarter drive and in overtime and EJ made a couple of really nice throws that his receivers went up and got. So all was good.

 

Oh and it was no surprise to me that Forte and Bennett did more damage than their two big outside guys (I know both ended up nicked up). The linebackers we had out there today do lack a little in coverage and getting Bradham back next week will be a big plus.

The middle of the field was chosen today because the DL did not let Cutler look outside. The pocket collapsed quickly. He did not have time. It also helped Cutler that his targets in the middle were beat with a lot of mixing and crossing patterns that disrupted coverage. Timing was huge for him and lead to two INT's.

 

The OG play - we are just used to absolutely piss poor OG's. Since Levitre we haven't fielded a better than average OG. I hate saying it and almost refuse to acknowlege it but looking back on some tapes I had on Levitre and looking at his 2013 tape and what I saw this season he was not that good. He was great. Excellent... at pulling and moving in the pocket. But, he was not a road grader and he was not good at pass blocking. He was above average. Overall, that makes me give Levitre above average. Before Levitre we had Wood at OG a short while and we had Hangartner there a while after.

 

We just do not know what good OG play is and if we want to see good OG play - we need to watch someone else.

 

Did Goodwin take the field at all today? I can't recall seeing him in on any play.

Radio guys were doing tremendously well today hitting every color and every play. I was noting early on from the second series where Goodwin was in on 1 snap and the 3rd or fourth series where he was in on 3 snaps...either way, in the first 5 possessions he was involved with 5 snaps that I was able to count and remember. I stopped counting because it was clear it didn't matter, we didn't need him. Against a better DB unit we may.

 

12 is why 9. (That is, McKelvin's outing is why I missed Gilmore.)

welcome to the board.

 

reasonable statement, actually. Our DB's could have really been torn apart with a better QB and OL.

 

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

Thoughts and prayers.

 

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

Seriously, I hope he is well, before I even got to the he is doing fine I truly was hoping it was good news in his health that you would be here posting.

[stevewin]

- Noticed multiple bad plays by Brown, I agree with those who say his head is spinning now. On one play he fell down then just starting running to the middle of the field with his back to the play, then almost fell down again as Forte came through the huge gap he created. I'll be real glad to see Bradham back, hopefully Rivers will be back too (read something that said it was a groin)

 

- Was very happy/relieved to see that Sammy looked quick/explosive. I was afraid the ribs would affect him for a while, but he didn't show that they were limiting him in any major way

 

- Read something this week think it was from EJ hinting to these amazing things the offense had in store for the Bears. If it was the too-cute triple misdirection plays that all went for 0 yds, then they must have been very disappointed

 

- Hackett kept calling that inside handoff over and over and you just knew it was setting up some play action or twist off the play - but it just never came...

 

- When Freddie dove for the end zone and they said he didn't get in I just started screaming "He needed to get in! He needed to get in!" My brain was in overdrive thinking of the ways we would blow the score - try to punch it in and fumble, miss the FG etc etc. When the called the delay of game I was thinking OMG here we go. So relieved they didn't find a way to lose - they found a way to win

[1st&ten]

I was surprised how little they used Freddy, then they bring him at the end & he wins the game, how cool is that.

[boyst]

- Noticed multiple bad plays by Brown, I agree with those who say his head is spinning now. On one play he fell down then just starting running to the middle of the field with his back to the play, then almost fell down again as Forte came through the huge gap he created. I'll be real glad to see Bradham back, hopefully Rivers will be back too (read something that said it was a groin)

 

Looked like Bradham his first outing and a few games after. Edited September 8, 2014 by jboyst62

[thebandit27]

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

 

Glad to hear he's going to be okay...I cannot even imagine...

[YoloinOhio]

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

is this the son at FSU? Prayers up...

[Doc]

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

Glad to hear he's going to be okay. Hope they fry the bastard(s) that did it.

 

And as for Chandler, good blocking, but bad receiving. That pass that was a little behind him was the type of pass that several better TE's caught today. And on EJ's INT, he fell down when EJ was looking to get him the ball. With the other skill positions in place, TE is where they need to go in next year's draft, unless they can swing a trade for one. Too bad Gragg and his 4.4 speed have been invisible.

[Jkgobills]

It's been a long off season waiting for your weekly thoughts Bill...thank you for your post!

 

1) Brandon Spikes is the kind of nasty that this team needed in the middle. That guy hits with anger!

 

2) Corey Graham was fantastic out there today. It will be a great thing to have Graham, Gilmore and McKelvin all healthy at the sametime. However, it's likely that at times someone will be hurt and it appears we have good depth at the position.

 

3) the rotational use of the RBs worked well today. They seemed to have fresh legs (and in the case of Freddy a fresh arm) to finish off the game

 

4) Robert Woods played great today and played fearlessly. He could have gotten his head taken off on that leaping catch, but went up and make a key play

 

5) like many here I keep "hoping" EJ can be the guy to takes us to the playoffs. In the first half today, he showed that he can be.

 

6) the tone of the organization, the team, the coaches, and the players seems different. In a good way. So what if Marrone, Whaley, and Brandon get into a shouting match? At least they seem to are as much as we do, and just like in this board sometimes differences of opinions can turn into shouting matches. Especially when people are passionate about the subject.

 

Great Win! The Pats are in the basement of the AFC East!

Go Bills!!

 

 

[AJ1]

What bothered me most was that it seemed to take EJ out of his rhythm. He looked great on the second drive of the game when they let him throw. In the second half it seemed like every possession was 2 runs and then EJ forced to throw on 3rd and 5 or more. A tough situation and seemed like he just couldn't get going again. I worry because it seems the coaches don't trust EJ. Now, I DO understand why they don't trust him, but if this team is going to win, we need to let EJ play. I don't mean throwing on every down....but more than they are and more on 1st down.

I don't trust Hackett.

[billsfan714]

Totally agree EJ has to run more. If Nate wants this to be a ball control offense, he has to use the read option with EJ taking it around the corner every now and then. He needs opposing defenses to respect that. Just a few for first downs with EJ running will open other things up.

[BobbyC81]

And as for Chandler, good blocking, but bad receiving. That pass that was a little behind him was the type of pass that several better TE's caught today. And on EJ's INT, he fell down when EJ was looking to get him the ball. With the other skill positions in place, TE is where they need to go in next year's draft, unless they can swing a trade for one. Too bad Gragg and his 4.4 speed have been invisible.

 

Jermichael Finley is still out there but I heard a couple of teams (Seattle) passed on him because of his contract demands. I'm sure injuries to a team's starting TE, such as Cincy's Eifert and the Brown's J.Cameron, could lead to someone meeting his demands.

[PolishDave]

It's got to be hard finding a place to park that little raincloud, huh? Trolling EJ's play despite the W.

I don't think he is trolling at all. I think his comments about EJ were accurate and fair. But hey that is just my opinion.

 

EJ played a good game and deserves credit for a good win. I am actually more optimistic about him right now than I had been at any point last year even after the wins he had last year. I think the Bears are wishing they had blitzed him more and I expect Miami will bring more heat.

 

I don't think Ej's celebration was a huge deal. But I think EJ's celebration irks some people a little bit because he seems so emotionless most of the time. Then he scores and acts like he is some kind of superstar. You have to earn superstar status. I wish a lot of the celebration after touchdowns would stop. It just seems unclassy to me, especially coming from a guy who is rated as questionable by most NFL fans.

 

This game was a step forward for him. Looking forward to more steps forward throughout the year. If that happens, this will be a damn good football team.

[bisonbrigade]

I would like to see him keep the ball more on the read option and run. Chicago seamed to leave that wide open, like Manuel's TD run.

Edited September 8, 2014 by bisonbrigade

[Doc]

I hope to hear more complaints about EJ's post-TD celebrations. Except if they involve a penalty.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I don't think he is trolling at all. I think his comments about EJ were accurate and fair. But hey that is just my opinion.

 

EJ played a good game and deserves credit for a good win. I am actually more optimistic about him right now than I had been at any point last year even after the wins he had last year. I think the Bears are wishing they had blitzed him more and I expect Miami will bring more heat.

 

I don't think Ej's celebration was a huge deal. But I think EJ's celebration irks some people a little bit because he seems so emotionless most of the time. Then he scores and acts like he is some kind of superstar. You have to earn superstar status. I wish a lot of the celebration after touchdowns would stop. It just seems unclassy to me, especially coming from a guy who is rated as questionable by most NFL fans.

 

This game was a step forward for him. Looking forward to more steps forward throughout the year. If that happens, this will be a damn good football team.

Disagree - saying "the QB will hurt us unless hidden" is a joke considering the guy perfectly executed two plays for six today. And the celebration nonsense is just… really? Do you want him to check his emotions, or to express them? Superstar status? I don't know. There are all sorts of celebrations from non-stars, and then plenty of stoic, run-of-the-mill "let's get back to work" high-fives from superstars.

 

Tom Brady should probably not celebrate by smashing helmets with his teammate; it could do long term damage. Winning teams really don't have fans that complain about this kind of stuff. I hope we get to enjoy that company soon.

 

Your last note is the best though.

[Augie]

is this the son at FSU? Prayers up...

Some one pays attention! Not the FSU son. It's the older son who is wreckless enough to go into bad neighborhoods to avoid traffic around the Falcons game in order to get to an appointment. He was careless and stupid and lucky to survive. Three shots hit flesh resulting in five holes (through and through). I promise you do NOT want to know the resting spot of the last slug (a urologist finally got it). I had just invited a nice young couple to join me at a shady table at the Bills bar here. I got a text and went into a stupor. They offered to pay my tab so I could rush off. Love to strangers Gavin and Amelia for being so caring. And everyone here. Life can be tough.

[purple haze]

Good post Bill. I think McKelvin deserves some credit too though. Forced the big fumble and was tagged on a horrible PI call. He was not bad. This Bears offense is lethal. But Graham was fantastic, and our QB was calm and poised!

 

Agree with you on McKelvin. And LM also missed a lot of the preseason practices and games. He's not facing 6'4 receivers every week. I thought he did fine between the size advantage and missed time in preseason. He did manage to do some good things out there.

 

Kyle Williams has more INTs than Jarius Byrd. Kyle F'n Williams!

 

Yep. But Byrd did have a forced fumble on Julio Jones just before he crossed the goal line for a score. JB is in usual form.

[PolishDave]

I'm not going to complain after a win. That will generally be true. Even more so today. My son was shot multiple times in a carjacking attempt about ten minutes before kickoff. Sorry if that sours the mood. He's going to be fine, but it sucked some of the fun out of my day. Duh. Remember the Bills are a nice fascination or even obsession, but your family is your family. Know what's important to you.

Sorry to hear that bud. You are never going to forget this day. I still can't believe some people have a total disregard and disrespect for human life. I hope your kid ends up okay and recovers 100%. Such a horrible thing to go through. Stuff like that makes law abiding citizens want to go get guns and even the score.

[BillsVet]

EJ looked much better, but a lot of his passes were high. These WR's can leap! 3 points in second half against suspect defense--will need to improve to succeed against Jets, Phins.

 

I got worried seeing some passes sailing and requiring those receivers to expose themselves. No doubt they can do it, but NFL DB's are going to knock someone out if that continues. I hope that those throws are more on target.

 

Winning on the road in the NFL is difficult and Chicago isn't a pushover by any stretch. Good win.

 

I think EJ was used appropriately...not having to chuck it 30 times and meshing that with a solid ground game to hit at Chicago's weakness. Defense was bend but don't break, and that's ok when you force 3 turnovers.

[Dan]

I got worried seeing some passes sailing and requiring those receivers to expose themselves. No doubt they can do it, but NFL DB's are going to knock someone out if that continues. I hope that those throws are more on target.

 

Winning on the road in the NFL is difficult and Chicago isn't a pushover by any stretch. Good win.

 

I think EJ was used appropriately...not having to chuck it 30 times and meshing that with a solid ground game to hit at Chicago's weakness. Defense was bend but don't break, and that's ok when you force 3 turnovers.

I don't think NFL DBs are allowed to knock recievers out any more.