papazoid Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Steve Johnson $10,225,000 Ryan Fitzpatrick $7,000,000 Mark Anderson $3,000,000 Rian Lindell $1,375,000 Alan Branch $875,000 Kevin Kolb $500,000 Brad Smith $500,000 Zebrie Sanders $99,250 Chris White $30,150 Justin Rogers $16,875 Colin Brown $12,500 Da’Rick Rogers $6,667 Keith Pough $5,334 Jumal Rolle $3,667 Kendall Gaskins $2,667 Jordan Dangerfield $2,334 Darrin Kitchens $2,000 Kip Edwards $2,000 Brandon Kaufman $1,667 Colby Way $666 Darius Robinson $666 http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Wonderful roster management by our front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) So? Also, way to trump up the stats by posting all 21 names, regardless of whether the last 13 combined don't even add up to 100K. But back to the original point, explain why this is bad. And what the Bills would do with this money if they had it. Edited August 25, 2014 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 In all fairness $20 of the $23 million went to 3 players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 When does SJ's, Fitz's and Anderson's contract come off the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 It looks like we should have some serious cap room once the dead money goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Steve Johnson $10,225,000 - he was traded, as many wanted Ryan Fitzpatrick $7,000,000 - bad contract Mark Anderson $3,000,000 - got hurt and never recovered Rian Lindell $1,375,000 - never understood why he was re-signed Alan Branch $875,000 - right move Kevin Kolb $500,000 - peanuts Brad Smith $500,000 - peanuts *****everyone from here down is either a late-round pick or UDFA, so who cares?***** Zebrie Sanders $99,250 Chris White $30,150 Justin Rogers $16,875 Colin Brown $12,500 Da'Rick Rogers $6,667 Keith Pough $5,334 Jumal Rolle $3,667 Kendall Gaskins $2,667 Jordan Dangerfield $2,334 Darrin Kitchens $2,000 Kip Edwards $2,000 Brandon Kaufman $1,667 Colby Way $666 Darius Robinson $666 http://overthecap.co...p/buffalo-bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Does anyone know what the league average is for dead money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) But, but we have to pay the man. Ralph was cheap. We have so much cap room! Edited August 25, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Colby Way is dragging down our ability to procure an ELITE quarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 This board is so maddening! I'm guessing the same posters who are upset by our dead money are the ones who always want to trade or cut players. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 But back to the original point, explain why this is bad. And what the Bills would do with this money if they had it. Resign Dareus, Spiller, Cordy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Does anyone know what the league average is for dead money? The quick eyeball test looked to be somewhere around $10, maybe. Only two teams are close to the Bills number. Dallas is actually higher (before Branch) and Carolina. Suggests poor money management, but as was already noted, most of this is in 2-3 players. But as I posted in another thread, at least the management doesn't hang onto player simply because they are owned money. That would be disastrous,. The Bills are in the middle of the pack in salary cap available, with about $9. So all in all, I don't see this as a major issue for us fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Whaley inherited this mess, except for Branch who flew off the handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 When does SJ's, Fitz's and Anderson's contract come off the books? Next year.....as in this is the final dead money year for all three. What all of this dead money means is that we will have a larger amount of money under the cap next year(and following years).....just in time to re-sign our budding young stars. I personally would rather see the Bills pay top dollar to probowl level players(overpaying if necessary a la Mario) than to overpay mediocre/decent/good players(which is what we have consistently done in the past, hence the dead money now). Though the large dead money amount can be looked at as mistakes made in the past....it is a good thing for the present and future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Resign Dareus, Spiller, Cordy, etc. This money has nothing to do with them. It will be off the books next season and we will be able to resign them all without having to deal with any of this money. The only thing it would affect would be money for this season if they re-signed during the season and received significant salary increases for this season but most deals are extensions rather than re-negotiating current salaries especially in last year of deals. Edited August 25, 2014 by Mark80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Can someone explain why there is dead $ for Stevie? He was traded, not cut, so wouldn't his contract go on SF's books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 They totally mis-managed Kip Edwards, just as I predicted last August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Can someone explain why there is dead $ for Stevie? He was traded, not cut, so wouldn't his contract go on SF's books? When a player is traded, the new team is responsible for their salary and future bonuses. The old team has to account for any previous monies paid. In SJ's case(and most cases) the monies remaining unaccounted from the signing bonus fall immediately into the dead money category(usually SB money is spread evenly throughout each year of a player's contract). From memory, SJ had 3 years of around $3M/year in signing bonuses due to be accounted for over the next three years.....and there was a bonus he recieved from us(around $1M?) before he was traded......hence the $10M dead hit. Edited August 25, 2014 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) So? Also, way to trump up the stats by posting all 21 names, regardless of whether the last 13 combined don't even add up to 100K. But back to the original point, explain why this is bad. And what the Bills would do with this money if they had it. Because the top two players on that list are good enough to start for this team and if we had less 'dead money' maybe we could have resigned Byrd and/or Levtrie and not have holes at S and G??? Or preferably, the terrible contracts given to Fitz and Anderson - would have never been given to Fitz and Anderson...??? The bills play Scrooge when a guy like Byrd wants big money but theyn they spend money like a drunken sailor on players like Fitz and Anderson. It makes ZERO sense!!! Edited August 25, 2014 by peterpan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 This money has nothing to do with them. It will be off the books next season and we will be able to resign them all without having to deal with any of this money. The only thing it would affect would be money for this season if they re-signed during the season and received significant salary increases for this season but most deals are extensions rather than re-negotiating current salaries especially in last year of deals. Oh, you mean resign or extend them before FA beckons them? Wouldn't want to that. Let's pay more for them at the last minute or lose them altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumin Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thank you for informing us about the cap hit on Darrin Kitchens. I've been eagerly perusing every thread on this board hoping for someone to provide that esoteric knowledge, and finally, someone came through. I can now rest at peace since I've been graced with such vital information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I posted in the Who Should stay thread, we now LEAD the NFL in DEAD MONEY ! Amazing. Yet, people on the board still don't connect the dots that this FO needs to go. I accept that spending money doesn't guarantee success, but wouldn't we all feel better about our OLine with Levitre ?, wouldn't our backup QB situation be better with Vick ? Somehow we've under spent the cap each of the past few years and still have the most dead money ? I agree the players that are on this list shouldn't be on this team, but who signed them in the first place to these contracts ? There is no accountability in this organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Because the top two players on that list are good enough to start for this team and if we had less 'dead money' maybe we could have resigned Byrd and/or Levtrie and not have holes at S and G??? Or preferably, the terrible contracts given to Fitz and Anderson - would have never been given to Fitz and Anderson...??? The bills play Scrooge when a guy like Byrd wants big money but theyn they spend money like a drunken sailor on players like Fitz and Anderson. It makes ZERO sense!!! LOL! They're all great players when the Bills have to resign them. I remember SJ be called our #1 WR. Shall I pull up Jerry Sulluvan's article scolding the Bills for underpaying Fitz? "PAY THE MAN!" Those words should be chiseled in stone somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 It happens when there is a regime change, especially at GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Because the top two players on that list are good enough to start for this team and if we had less 'dead money' maybe we could have resigned Byrd and/or Levtrie and not have holes at S and G??? ..... You are not taking into account the money that SJ & Fitz would have cost us under the cap. Had we kept Fitz our cap situation would be roughly $10M worse than it is now. He was on roughly $10M/year.....that's $20M for 2013+2014.....minus his $10M dead cap hit(added the $3M dead hit from last year).....making $10M worse off. Add to that the concept that he would cost another $10M/year for several years in the future and the numbers to keep him grossly outweigh the dead cap hit. Putting just the Fitz money in perspective.....we currently have $8.5M of cap left. Having kept Fitz we would be over the cap at the moment. Similar can be said for SJ but the Mike Williams contract pretty much cancels that out. It becomes a wash with those two. Signing Levitre would also have killed our cap. Even after removing the Chris Williams money from the equation.....using the Titans contract....Levitre would have us being $10.8M worse under the cap this year(again making us over the cap).....and a further $5M/year worse in each future year. In regards to Byrd......signing him most likely meant not signing A.Williams, or at least letting him hit FA next year where he would then likely have left. There is a lot more depth to analyzing the cap and the future ramifications of player contracts than most fans consider. I guess that is why they pay experts a lot of money to do the job. ..... I agree the players that are on this list shouldn't be on this team, but who signed them in the first place to these contracts ? There is no accountability in this organization. Do you realize that those responsible for signing them in the first place are no longer with the organization? Edited August 25, 2014 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 You are not taking into account the money that SJ & Fitz would have cost us under the cap. Had we kept Fitz our cap situation would be roughly $10M worse than it is now. He was on roughly $10M/year.....that's $20M for 2013+2014.....minus his $10M dead cap hit(added the $3M dead hit from last year).....making $10M worse off. Add to that the concept that he would cost another $10M/year for several years in the future and the numbers to keep him grossly outweigh the dead cap hit. Putting just the Fitz money in perspective.....we currently have $8.5M of cap left. Having kept Fitz we would be over the cap at the moment. Similar can be said for SJ but the Mike Williams contract pretty much cancels that out. It becomes a wash with those two. Signing Levitre would also have killed our cap. Even after removing the Chris Williams money from the equation.....using the Titans contract....Levitre would have us being $10.8M worse under the cap this year(again making us over the cap).....and a further $5M/year worse in each future year. In regards to Byrd......signing him most likely meant not signing A.Williams, or at least letting him hit FA next year where he would then likely have left. There is a lot more depth to analyzing the cap and the future ramifications of player contracts than most fans consider. I guess that is why they pay experts a lot of money to do the job. Do you realize that those responsible for signing them in the first place are no longer with the organization? So, Whaley, Littman, Overdorf and Brandon had no say in those contracts when they were signed ? Come on, Nix wasn't acting entirely on his own back then, you can't possible believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 So? Also, way to trump up the stats by posting all 21 names, regardless of whether the last 13 combined don't even add up to 100K. But back to the original point, explain why this is bad. And what the Bills would do with this money if they had it. Quibbling. There have been some bad decisions in pro personnel and I think it's why Whaley replaced the guy who Nix had hired. Nevertheless, 23.6M is a lot of dead cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Quibbling. There have been some bad decisions in pro personnel and I think it's why Whaley replaced the guy who Nix had hired. Nevertheless, 23.6M is a lot of dead cap space. But who cares? Who are they going to add to the roster between now and Jan 1, 2015 that they couldn't because of it? Who could they have added that they didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) So, Whaley, Littman, Overdorf and Brandon had no say in those contracts when they were signed ? Come on, Nix wasn't acting entirely on his own back then, you can't possible believe that. Who decides how much a player is worth? The GM is gone......and I am pretty sure that Gailey pushed heavily for Fitz. For all we know Whaley advised against the Fitz contract extension. Essentially you argue to fire everyone because they were there. Have a good look at the personnel and cap decisions made over the last 2 years. Surely you can see a world of difference in how this organization has been run since Nix/Gailey left. Edited August 25, 2014 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I posted in the Who Should stay thread, we now LEAD the NFL in DEAD MONEY ! Amazing. Yet, people on the board still don't connect the dots that this FO needs to go. I accept that spending money doesn't guarantee success, but wouldn't we all feel better about our OLine with Levitre ?, wouldn't our backup QB situation be better with Vick ? Somehow we've under spent the cap each of the past few years and still have the most dead money ? I agree the players that are on this list shouldn't be on this team, but who signed them in the first place to these contracts ? There is no accountability in this organization. WOAH! Settle down there. Whaley didn't sign Stevie or Fitz to those contracts. It's really annoying when people make comments that are so obviously based on zero knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Who decides how much a player is worth? The GM is gone......and I am pretty sure that Gailey pushed heavily for Fitz. For all we know Whaley advised against the Fitz contract extension. Essentially you argue to fire everyone because they were there. Have a good look at the personnel and cap decisions made over the last 2 years. Surely you can see a world of difference in how this organization has been run since Nix/Gailey left. It's been a mixed bag since January 2013. I didn't like that we renewed the Toronto series. I didn't like that we have no Plan B for QB. I would have at a minimum signed a veteran backup (I advocated for Vick) I didn't like the Watkins trade. A 2014 and 2015 1st and 2015 4th is too heavy a price for a WR I didn't like the S Johnson trade. I think it was at least a year early to move him. I didn't like Marrone keeping Crossman. I liked that we suspended the Toronto series. I liked both drafts for the most part (except the trade; I think Whaley is a good judge of talent. I liked the Mike Williams trade, low risk. I liked the Bryce Brown trade. Jury is out, but, from my vantage point, it doesn't feel a whole lot different around here than it did the previous 14 years. WOAH! Settle down there. Whaley didn't sign Stevie or Fitz to those contracts. It's really annoying when people make comments that are so obviously based on zero knowledge. See later post. FO includes: Brandon, Littman, Overdorf and Whaley. I guess you are of same mindset that Nix was in complete control and made all decisions. I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 The Bills are 9 million and change under the cap. More than enough to make any moves they need to. I don't like that Nix overpaid Stevie Johnson and Ryan Fitzpatrick, but on the other hand, glad the current admin saw fit to clean up the mess. Oh, and the Bills will have as much cap space next year to sign anyone they want, because fitz will be off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Who decides how much a player is worth? The GM is gone......and I am pretty sure that Gailey pushed heavily for Fitz. For all we know Whaley advised against the Fitz contract extension. Essentially you argue to fire everyone because they were there. Have a good look at the personnel and cap decisions made over the last 2 years. Surely you can see a world of difference in how this organization has been run since Nix/Gailey left. While this suggests mis-management at some point (or would if it wasn't the NFL), I fail to see how this is relevant this season. The team still has plenty of cap room to sign someone should it need to. Most of that dead cap goes away at the end of the season. What's the big deal here? An owner might object to wasting money (fans shouldn't really care, IMO) but that's not an issue right now for the Bills. I suppose this happened at the perfect time, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 The Bills also saved some dead money in the Mike Williams trade, which offsets about 7m of Stevie's 10m. They were essentially traded for each other. MWilliams only costs 1.8m this year because of his Tampa Contract. He didn't leave a lot of dead money there but we get him for peanuts this year because of his old contract, and then have him next year for about 6m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 It's been a mixed bag since January 2013. I didn't like that we renewed the Toronto series. I didn't like that we have no Plan B for QB. I would have at a minimum signed a veteran backup (I advocated for Vick) I didn't like the Watkins trade. A 2014 and 2015 1st and 2015 4th is too heavy a price for a WR I didn't like the S Johnson trade. I think it was at least a year early to move him. I didn't like Marrone keeping Crossman. I liked that we suspended the Toronto series. I liked both drafts for the most part (except the trade; I think Whaley is a good judge of talent. I liked the Mike Williams trade, low risk. I liked the Bryce Brown trade. Jury is out, but, from my vantage point, it doesn't feel a whole lot different around here than it did the previous 14 years. ..... Just on the SJ situation..... Had it been a few years ago(in relation to cap rules) I would have agreed with you. It used to be that if you had extra cap room you might as well keep the overpaid player who you know is not in the medium/long term plans for the club. With the new rollover rules however, keeping an overpaid player like SJ drastically effects what you can do in the future. It may be a few million extra cap dollars this season to not have him on the roster, but it is also an extra $8M-$9M every year for the next 3 that we will have.....and if we don't spend it, it gets rolled over. This means that cutting SJ now could mean that we can pay top dollar for Kiko in 3 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 While this suggests mis-management at some point (or would if it wasn't the NFL), I fail to see how this is relevant this season. The team still has plenty of cap room to sign someone should it need to. Most of that dead cap goes away at the end of the season. What's the big deal here? An owner might object to wasting money (fans shouldn't really care, IMO) but that's not an issue right now for the Bills. I suppose this happened at the perfect time, actually. It's relevant because in a salary cap league every $ you spend needs to count. Dead money is money that is wasted. The Bills could, in theory, use the dead money to extend Glenn, Spiller or Gilmore with front loaded contracts or roll over those savings to years when they need the money. In a salary cap league, every dollar spent eventually matters. I'm not suggesting that the Bills need to be perfect, every team makes mistakes, even the ones that win Super Bowls. What I'm suggesting is to be the worst team in DEAD money, at the very least, implies that this FO has mismanaged their spending, at lease for a period of time. While others feel this is all on Buddy Nix, I think there is blame to go around to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 In the era of the rookie salary cap, signing a QB who is not under a rookie contract (ie Fitz, Flacco, Romo and probably Dalton ) who is not a certified star will nearly cripple a team unless it is structured in some very clever way. If you don't have a star QB, a team is probably better off rotating mediocre QBs every 4 years on a rookie contract. QB's like Fitz and Jake Locker and Matt Shaub and EJ Manuel and Chrisitan Ponder are all interchangeable, not good enough to carry a team, so you might as well go with the cheapest and spend the money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 It's relevant because in a salary cap league every $ you spend needs to count. Dead money is money that is wasted. The Bills could, in theory, use the dead money to extend Glenn, Spiller or Gilmore with front loaded contracts or roll over those savings to years when they need the money. In a salary cap league, every dollar spent eventually matters. I'm not suggesting that the Bills need to be perfect, every team makes mistakes, even the ones that win Super Bowls. What I'm suggesting is to be the worst team in DEAD money, at the very least, implies that this FO has mismanaged their spending, at lease for a period of time. While others feel this is all on Buddy Nix, I think there is blame to go around to others. As a good chunk of that dead money goes away at the end of the season, they can extend Glenn or re-sign spiller next year. Spiller still doesn't even have an agent. Again, I agree this is mis-management, but due to the timing of the hit, I think it happened at the perfect time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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