$23,661,443 in Dead Money

[papazoid]

Dead Money per TEAM

 

#1 - DAL - $24,815,000

#2 - BUF - $23,662,000

#3 - CAR - $19,277,000

#4 - HOU - $18,194,000

#5 - CLE - $16,070,000

#6 - OAK - $14,155,000

#7 - CHI - $14,040,000

#8 - SD - $13,807,000

#9 - NO - $13,738,000

#10- NYJ - $13,174,000

#11- ARZ - $13,174,000

#12- NE - $11,694,000

#13- PIT - $11,352,000

#14- JAX - $10,814,000

#15- WAS - $10,743,000

#16- NYG - $10,618,000

#17- PHI - $ 9,473,000

#18- ATL - $ 9,115,000

#19- SEA - $ 8,658,000

#20- TEN - $ 8,084,000

#21- DET - $ 7,567,000

#22- KC - $ 7,062,000

#23- DEN - $ 6,508,000

#24- STL - $ 6,368,000

#25- BAL - $ 6,337,000

#26- TB - $ 6,261,000

#27- MIA - $ 5,927,000

#28- MIN - $ 5,307,000

#29- SF - $ 3,828,000

#30- GB - $ 3,107,000

#31- CIN - $ 2,864,000

#32- IND - $ 1,888,000

Edited August 25, 2014 by papazoid

[BillsVet]

And to address BillsVet, was ignoring the QB position in 2011-12 a mistake. Well, I believe it was. Whaley corrected that mistake by addressing the position the following year. He also did a lot to address the OL in the offseason. Not liking the players he chose is not the same thing as "not addressing" the situation. You have to give these guys a clean slate and not pin your perceived sins of the past on them. Cleaning house is typically not the smartest management strategy.

 

Dean-

 

When they ignored the QB position in 2011 and 2012 it forced them into taking a guy in 2013. It just so happened the QB crop wasn't very good that year, and only 1 was selected in the first round. Some will chime in here that this is hindsight, but any good manager knows you don't make your best decisions out of desperation. And Buffalo was desperate for a QB enterinig the 2013 draft. I think at that point they had only the oft-injured Kevin Kolb and Tyler Thigpen on the roster.

 

There should have been enough tape on Fitz from 2008-2011 to know he wasn't the guy and they needed a better option via the draft in 2011 or 2012. This is a prime example how sins of the past directly impact the team of today. And I fully recognize that not all of the 15 QB's selected in rounds 1-4 in 2011-2012 are superstars. They're not, so it wasn't as simple as just taking a guy to say you had one. Again, it's why personnel guys get paid the big dollars: to get that position right.

[Kirby Jackson]

Yes, absolutely, if they manage the cap in way that allows them to resign their core players and add FA's, I will praise them. However, I will praise them a lot more if they win more games.

 

BTW, I think Hughes is also eligible to be extended along with Dareus, so they could have used some of that dead money for those guys, right ?

Yes but supposedly Hughes has no interest in an extension at this point. He will do well in the market based on last year but if he has another double digit sack campaign he will crush it. People are throwing stupid money at pass rushers. The Bills should be in great shape cap wise but he may very well go elsewhere.

[1B4IDie]

It isn't 2015 yet.

 

Are you worried that 2015 will not happen?

 

Because unless the Bills cut Mario Williams or Eric Wood in 2014, there really isn't much upfront money out there to become dead. A majority of the team is on a rookie, or short term contract.

[thebandit27]

Yes but supposedly Hughes has no interest in an extension at this point. He will do well in the market based on last year but if he has another double digit sack campaign he will crush it. People are throwing stupid money at pass rushers. The Bills should be in great shape cap wise but he may very well go elsewhere.

 

That Everson Griffen contract is going to blow up the market for pass rushers next offseason. Ever wonder if maybe a team does that kind of thing just to screw other teams over? I know that's not the case, but good grief, $7M/year for Everson Griffen? If Hughes hits 8 sacks this year he'll get at least $9M/year on the open market.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

That Everson Griffen contract is going to blow up the market for pass rushers next offseason. Ever wonder if maybe a team does that kind of thing just to screw other teams over? I know that's not the case, but good grief, $7M/year for Everson Griffen? If Hughes hits 8 sacks this year he'll get at least $9M/year on the open market.

What if he gets 13 sacks?!? If he has a year like last year (which it sounds like he is primed for) his contract will be crazy.

[1B4IDie]

Dean-

 

When they ignored the QB position in 2011 and 2012 it forced them into taking a guy in 2013. It just so happened the QB crop wasn't very good that year, and only 1 was selected in the first round. Some will chime in here that this is hindsight, but any good manager knows you don't make your best decisions out of desperation. And Buffalo was desperate for a QB enterinig the 2013 draft. I think at that point they had only the oft-injured Kevin Kolb and Tyler Thigpen on the roster.

 

There should have been enough tape on Fitz from 2008-2011 to know he wasn't the guy and they needed a better option via the draft in 2011 or 2012. This is a prime example how sins of the past directly impact the team of today. And I fully recognize that not all of the 15 QB's selected in rounds 1-4 in 2011-2012 are superstars. They're not, so it wasn't as simple as just taking a guy to say you had one. Again, it's why personnel guys get paid the big dollars: to get that position right.

Remember they traded back to get EJ.

 

Buffalo traded #8 (Tavon Austin) and a third-round selection #71 (TJ McDonald) to St. Louis in exchange for #16th EJ Manuel, second- #46th (Kiko Alonso), third- #78th (Marquise Goodwin), and seventh- #222 (Chris Gragg)

So Yes the Bills were desperate for a QB but I don't think it is fair to say it was a desperate move.

 

You can suppose that they could have traded back again from #16 and still got EJ, but isn't that what happened in 2011 and 2012 when "they ignored the QB position"?

Edited August 25, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[nucci]

Yes, absolutely, if they manage the cap in way that allows them to resign their core players and add FA's, I will praise them. However, I will praise them a lot more if they win more games.

 

BTW, I think Hughes is also eligible to be extended along with Dareus, so they could have used some of that dead money for those guys, right ?

How would contract extensions for these 2 have any effect on dead money for this year? Their new contracts would be for next year when there is little to no dead money.

[TXBILLSFAN]

Bills will have to have some serious cap discussion regarding their D-line over the next off-season. Hughes-Dareus-Williams-Williams are already around $34M/year -- I can't see them keeping that group together for under $40M/year.

 

Why couldn't they have restructured Mario and Kyle this year and moved $8M or so into 2014 and given themselves another $4M/year to play with in 2015 and 2016 ?

[The Dean]

Dean-

 

When they ignored the QB position in 2011 and 2012 it forced them into taking a guy in 2013. It just so happened the QB crop wasn't very good that year, and only 1 was selected in the first round. Some will chime in here that this is hindsight, but any good manager knows you don't make your best decisions out of desperation. And Buffalo was desperate for a QB enterinig the 2013 draft. I think at that point they had only the oft-injured Kevin Kolb and Tyler Thigpen on the roster.

 

There should have been enough tape on Fitz from 2008-2011 to know he wasn't the guy and they needed a better option via the draft in 2011 or 2012. This is a prime example how sins of the past directly impact the team of today. And I fully recognize that not all of the 15 QB's selected in rounds 1-4 in 2011-2012 are superstars. They're not, so it wasn't as simple as just taking a guy to say you had one. Again, it's why personnel guys get paid the big dollars: to get that position right.

 

You are still blaming the mistakes of old management on the current regime. Why would you clean house again? These guys didn't cause the mess. They are doing their best to fix it.

[H2o]

We can use this money next offseason to go all in on Sam Bradford, a.k.a. Savior of the Buffalo Bills

[K-9]

Dean-

 

When they ignored the QB position in 2011 and 2012 it forced them into taking a guy in 2013. It just so happened the QB crop wasn't very good that year, and only 1 was selected in the first round. Some will chime in here that this is hindsight, but any good manager knows you don't make your best decisions out of desperation. And Buffalo was desperate for a QB enterinig the 2013 draft. I think at that point they had only the oft-injured Kevin Kolb and Tyler Thigpen on the roster.

 

There should have been enough tape on Fitz from 2008-2011 to know he wasn't the guy and they needed a better option via the draft in 2011 or 2012. This is a prime example how sins of the past directly impact the team of today. And I fully recognize that not all of the 15 QB's selected in rounds 1-4 in 2011-2012 are superstars. They're not, so it wasn't as simple as just taking a guy to say you had one. Again, it's why personnel guys get paid the big dollars: to get that position right.

 

There's a difference between ignoring the QB position and making a wrong decision about it. Signing Fitz to his extension was anything but ignoring it. If you want to argue that it was the wrong decision, hindsight would agree.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

That Everson Griffen contract is going to blow up the market for pass rushers next offseason. Ever wonder if maybe a team does that kind of thing just to screw other teams over? I know that's not the case, but good grief, $7M/year for Everson Griffen? If Hughes hits 8 sacks this year he'll get at least $9M/year on the open market.

 

Got that right.

 

Nice knowin' ya, Jerry. Good luck with your new team.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

How would contract extensions for these 2 have any effect on dead money for this year? Their new contracts would be for next year when there is little to no dead money.

I thought you could extend a player's contract and impact a current year's cap -- if you can't do that, you certainly can restructure contracts and move money into current year --

 

For example (for illustration purposes only), instead of Mario making base salaries of $2M-$12M-$12M-$12M over the 2014-2015-2016 and 2017 seasons -- you could restructure and pay him $20M-$6M-$6M-$6M --- so, you use up this year's cap to make future year's smaller ---

 

When you do that, you would have needed that dead money to not exist in order to spend it on the restructured contract(s).

Edited August 25, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN

[Lurker]

You are still blaming the mistakes of old management on the current regime. Why would you clean house again? These guys didn't cause the mess. They are doing their best to fix it.

Don't bother with rational arguments.

 

B word'n Über Alles is all some posters can manage....

[1B4IDie]

I thought you could extend a player's contract and impact a current year's cap -- if you can't do that, you certainly can restructure contracts and move money into current year --

 

For example (for illustration purposes only), instead of Mario making base salaries of $2M-$12M-$12M-$12M over the 2014-2015-2016 and 2017 seasons -- you could restructure and pay him $20M-$6M-$6M-$6M --- so, you use up this year's cap to make future year's smaller ---

 

When you do that, you would have needed that dead money to not exist in order to spend it on the restructured contract(s).

Why are you speaking in hypotheticals?

 

Buffalo Bills Dead Money had almost zero effect on Free Agents signing in March 2014. Buffalo Bills Dead Money will have zero effect on extending contracts and Free Agent signing in 2015.

There is Cap Space right now in 2014 and the Buffalo Bills can sign or extend anyone they want to, right now.

[The Dean]

Don't bother with rational arguments.

 

B word'n Über Alles is all some posters can manage....

 

Same guys all the time, for several years. And until the team turns it around there isn't much to say to them. Even then I wonder if some will be happy.

 

Same guys who predict failure for every draft pick. Predicting success is a lot riskier than predicting failure, especially with a losing team.

Edited August 25, 2014 by The Dean

[thebandit27]

Why are you speaking in hypotheticals?

 

Buffalo Bills Dead Money had almost zero effect on Free Agents signing in March 2014. Buffalo Bills Dead Money will have zero effect on extending contracts and Free Agent signing in 2015.

There is Cap Space right now in 2014 and the Buffalo Bills can sign or extend anyone they want to, right now.

 

Except, of course, for players that haven't completed 3 seasons of their rookie contract and vested veterans signed to 1-year deals.

[1B4IDie]

Except, of course, for players that haven't completed 3 seasons of their rookie contract and vested veterans signed to 1-year deals.

Let me rephrase counselor.

There is Cap Space right now in 2014 and the Buffalo Bills can sign or extend anyone they want to, right now.*

 

*"anyone" refers to players that are eligible to be extended and agree to sign an extension **

*** Jerry Hughes I'm looking at you. After busting for the Colts, the Bills saved your career you think you can hook them up with a discount?

Edited August 25, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[JohnC]

 

LOL! They're all great players when the Bills have to resign them. I remember SJ be called our #1 WR. Shall I pull up Jerry Sulluvan's article scolding the Bills for underpaying Fitz? "PAY THE MAN!" Those words should be chiseled in stone somewhere.

 

What difference does it make whether a columnist offers a contrarian view to the organizatiion that is responsible for making personnel and contract decisions? Do you really believe that a reporter/columnist's opinion influences the decisions that the front office makes? Of course not. The SJ and Fitz departures that resulted in most of the dead money both made a lot of sense. Fitz didn't want to be here as a backup and SJ was not the type of person who could handle a demontion to a younger player such as Watkins and Woods. It was also apparent that Marrone was not too enamored with SJ and his tiresome diva act.

 

With respect to the dead money issue I have no problem with the Bills having dead money. Situations change, and sometimems dramatically in one year. I'll take our present receiving corps with the dead money over having him in the starting lineup bumping out one of the other young starters. I'll also take a struggling EJ over Fitz as a starter under any circumstances. With Fitz you have no upside, mediocrity is mediocrity. With EJ at least you are giving a young prospect with potential an opportunity to develop. Even if he doesn't materialize as a franchise qb at least you gave him the opportunity to prove himslef. Fitz is already a known quantity. The bottom line is that you go nowhere with him as a starter.

Edited August 25, 2014 by JohnC

[thebandit27]

Let me rephrase counselor.

There is Cap Space right now in 2014 and the Buffalo Bills can sign or extend anyone they want to, right now.*

 

*"anyone" refers to players that are eligible to be extended and agree to sign an extension **

*** Jerry Hughes I'm looking at you. After busting for the Colts, the Bills saved your career you think you can hook them up with a discount?

 

Much better!

 

In all seriousness though, I'd love to see them get Hughes' deal done so they can concentrate on Glenn/Gilmore/Dareus/Spikes

[K-9]

Let me rephrase counselor.

There is Cap Space right now in 2014 and the Buffalo Bills can sign or extend anyone they want to, right now.*

 

*"anyone" refers to players that are eligible to be extended and agree to sign an extension **

*** Jerry Hughes I'm looking at you. After busting for the Colts, the Bills saved your career you think you can hook them up with a discount?

 

Hughes would be beyond stupid to not wait until FAgency.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

Why are you speaking in hypotheticals?

 

Buffalo Bills Dead Money had almost zero effect on Free Agents signing in March 2014. Buffalo Bills Dead Money will have zero effect on extending contracts and Free Agent signing in 2015.

There is Cap Space right now in 2014 and the Buffalo Bills can sign or extend anyone they want to, right now.

That's a different argument. I was simply trying to illustrate that dead money does impact a team's ability to resign players. Why the Bills aren't extending and restructuring players, I don't know.

[1B4IDie]

That's a different argument. I was simply trying to illustrate that dead money does impact a team's ability to resign players. Why the Bills aren't extending and restructuring players, I don't know.

Hypothetical arguments are sooooo much Fun! Especially in a thread that is focused on actual number of the Buffalo Bills dead money and the actual effect it has in the real world.

 

I have another hypothetical: Let's say, Gravity didn't exist? Would that make EJ Manuel a more effective or less effective QB?

 

Hughes would be beyond stupid to not wait until FAgency.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Agreed, but you know, I'm just sayin' . . . hook a Whaley up.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[BillsVet]

You are still blaming the mistakes of old management on the current regime. Why would you clean house again? These guys didn't cause the mess. They are doing their best to fix it.

 

How is the current (i.e. after 2013 draft-present) regime "new" as opposed to the "old" (2010-13 drafts) one? Because unless Buddy Nix was making all the decisions without input from anyone else, there are plenty of people still standing who were contributing, especially in the 2010-13 drafts.

 

Guys like Whaley (Asst. GM) Chuck Cook (college scouting director), Tom Gibbons (pro personnel director) Doug Majewski (National Scout) and several scouts were present from 2010-2013. Cook was demoted after the 2013 draft IIRC to National Scout.

 

The point is, nothing really changed. It was symbolism over substance. Whaley added some guys, but OBD remained intact after Nix was put out to pasture. This is a massive conflation of the argument to say there was an old and new management from 2010-present.

 

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Results have, BTW, remained the same.

[The Dean]

How is the current (i.e. after 2013 draft-present) regime "new" as opposed to the "old" (2010-13 drafts) one? Because unless Buddy Nix was making all the decisions without input from anyone else, there are plenty of people still standing who were contributing, especially in the 2010-13 drafts.

 

Guys like Whaley (Asst. GM) Chuck Cook (college scouting director), Tom Gibbons (pro personnel director) Doug Majewski (National Scout) and several scouts were present from 2010-2013. Cook was demoted after the 2013 draft IIRC to National Scout.

 

The point is, nothing really changed. It was symbolism over substance. Whaley added some guys, but OBD remained intact after Nix was put out to pasture. This is a massive conflation of the argument to say there was an old and new management from 2010-present.

 

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Results have, BTW, remained the same.

 

New GM and HC here for a whopping one year yet you have made your judgement. (Whaley had a year experience before that, but not as GM) They ARE the decision makers. Blaming scouts for decisions is just bulls@#t./ By your logic, as long as they remain in Buffalo and call themselves the Bills, everything will always be the same. If so, I believe consistency of management would benefit things, as constant change gets us nowhere.

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

Hypothetical arguments are sooooo much Fun! Especially in a thread that is focused on actual number of the Buffalo Bills dead money and the actual effect it has in the real world.

 

I have another hypothetical: Let's say, Gravity didn't exist? Would that make EJ Manuel a more effective or less effective QB?

 

 

Agreed, but you know, I'm just sayin' . . . hook a Whaley up.

That's a trick question, without gravity, EJ wouldn't be any better off because the defense wouldn't have gravity either, so, neither more or less effective, the same.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

Whaley inherited this mess, except for Branch who flew off the handle.

 

Wow, I was waiting for the Whaley sucks posts!

[1B4IDie]

That's a trick question, without gravity, EJ wouldn't be any better off because the defense wouldn't have gravity either, so, neither more or less effective, the same.

You figured it out!

[TXBILLSFAN]

You figured it out!

I have to confess, I looked it up on Google

[Dibs]

Thanks for taking the time. Is there a website that captures what you're saying with regards to the cash layout of teams and other cap related spending?

 

There are two sites that I find very good....

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills/

 

The second one(over the cap) has an actual cash spending list(top right in red on linked page)......though I must admit that I still don't fully understand the "cash spending" page they provide.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Resign Dareus, Spiller, Cordy, etc.

 

they won't resign dareus until he proves this season to stay out of trouble, they wont resign spiller until he has an agent, Cordy is going into year 3 of his contract, no rush to sign him.

 

Dead money hurts, but that is what happens when you have roster turnovers with new regimes every few years

[valle7878]

ok guys you are wrong once you trade a player the contract goes to that team so we don't have dead money in Steve Johnson who cares about the rest it all goes off next year so wy are you complaining about it .

[TDRupp]

Does anyone know what the league average is for dead money?

 

No but that investment in Colby Way is unforgivable!

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

I have another hypothetical: Let's say, Gravity didn't exist? Would that make EJ Manuel a more effective or less effective QB?

Far less effective. The only way you could ever complete a forward pass would be to throw a pass that never got more than about 8-9 feet off the ground. If you tried to put even a little loft on it, it would never come down. Your receivers might be able to jump up to catch it, but they would never come down either. So if they did jump and catch it they would never come down, but the play clock would keep running until the end of whatever quarter you were in, and the game could never actually end.

 

All the defense would be required to do to break UP a pass would be to stand anywhere on the straight line between the QB and the receiver (unless there was a cross-wind). Any thrown ball with any chance of being caught by a receiver would be so low that a defender on that line could simply reach out and knock it UP (where it would also never come down, and therefore also run the clock to the end of the quarter).

 

Any other hypotheticals?

Edited August 26, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[Dibs]

....If the dead cap money was 35M, would that be the same situation? How much is too much to demonstrate things are not good?

 

....

.....

 

BTW, I think Hughes is also eligible to be extended along with Dareus, so they could have used some of that dead money for those guys, right ?

 

One cannot simply look at dead money and say "We could have done X or Y with that money" as dead money has no relevance on its own.

 

Dead money is created by cutting/trading players. The monies left owing then becomes dead money. The monies however that would have been paid to the cut/traded players in the form of salary/bonuses etc are removed from cap spending......thus giving more cap space to work with.

 

The dead money reduces the cap space.....the removal of players adds to the cap space. Both sides need to be looked at in order to determine if there were to be "extra" cap space that one could then spend on players(re-signing, FAs etc).

 

 

Now that we are in the rollover era of cap management, bad contracts can no longer be looked at as being easily absorbed.

What I mean by that is that prior to rollover, if a team was overpaying a poorly performing player, and plenty of cap room, they could simply keep the contract and it would not impact future years(apart from each year's actual cap hit for the player).

 

In the rollover cap era however, where every dollar unspent in year A can be moved to year B then C etc.....keeping an overpaid player can drastically effect future caps.

 

In real terms....taking out his dead money....had we not cut Fitz(which would have created the dead money)...it would have been roughly as follows:

2013: We had $18M left for rollover into 2014....add $3M for Fitz dead hit.....minus $10M for Fitz salary....making the rollover amount into the 2014 year $11M(or $7M less).

2014: We have a $7M dead hit for Fitz.....minus $10M salary.....comes to $3M worse off....add the $7M....comes to $10M worse off. That is $10M that we cannot roll into 2015.

2015: We are now down by $10M of cap space.....minus off another $10M for Fitz's 2015 cap hit.....and we are worse off in 2015 by $20M

 

2016: Same logic.....becomes $30M less cap space had we not created a $10M dead cap hit earlier on(as we have done).

 

 

 

The dead money may appear to be costing money under the cap, but when looked at in combination with the actual cap it is the converse. It is helping to create actual room under the cap.

 

 

The question really isn't about having dead money, as the creation of the dead money was a wise move(cap-wise). The question really is whether the FO should be blamed for the initial contract restructuring of Fitz/SJ......and whether the current FO should take some of the blame.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Dibs

[1B4IDie]

Far less effective. The only way you could ever complete a forward pass would be to throw a pass that never got more than about 8-9 feet off the ground. If you tried to put even a little loft on it, it would never come down. Your receivers might be able to jump up to catch it, but they would never come down either. So if they did jump and catch it they would never come down, but the play clock would keep running until the end of whatever quarter you were in, and the game could never actually end.

 

All the defense would be required to do to break UP a pass would be to stand anywhere on the straight line between the QB and the receiver (unless there was a cross-wind). Any thrown ball with any chance of being caught by a receiver would be so low that a defender on that line could simply reach out and knock it UP (where it would also never come down, and therefore also run the clock to the end of the quarter).

 

Any other hypotheticals?

It can be argued that 1 attempted pass that is never completed or incompleted is more effective.

[BuffaloFan68]

I liked Zebrie Zanders - anyone know where he is now?

 

I also liked the TE, Andre Smith from VA Tech that was in Dallas & Cleveland last year - kid was a beast at blocking & had good hands. I'd love to see him in Buffalo.

Edited August 26, 2014 by BuffaloFan68