The Trust

[beerme1]

I do not have a link. Sue me, in typical WNY style.

I believe I heard tonight on Channel 2 News that the team has been placed in a trust that is controlled by family members and that the team cant be sold until they say so.

I'm not trying to add any hyperbole to the situation so please don't misread me. My two cents is the Bills are never leaving us. They are self sufficient and while the family stands to gain, they also stand to lose. Mary Wilson is on the new stadium committee no? Think she will encourage these people to pursue that knowing that there is no hope? I don't. She's a pretty strong woman that I respect and I can't imagine that she would be involved in a charade.

This is our team forever providing we get a new stadium worked out. Figure 500 million public contribution though on an 750 million dollar stadium.

 

Thinking about this, if I'm right I want to say thanks Ralph.

 

Go Bills

[Buffalo Barbarian]

hope your right,

 

Now we need to start spending to win. Constantly being millions below the cap shows that we are not doing all we can to keep our good players nor going out and getting quality FAs.

[TSNBDSC]

Trust The Trust. They're not going anywhere.

[machine gun kelly]

hope your right,

 

Now we need to start spending to win. Constantly being millions below the cap shows that we are not doing all we can to keep our good players nor going out and getting quality FAs.

 

As of this year we have to spend at least 89% to the cap so on $133 mil. They have to spend $118,370,000 to the cap. They will do that once they get through the draft. Sad as they could've afforded Byrd. I think Byrd would've taken less to leave for a playoff team. That's what sucks about this playoff drought. Until we start winning, our best developed talent will keep losing to better teams. This draft has to be a homerun.

[KGUNBILLS]

If the Bills ever leave Buffalo, I will never watch football again!

[mrags]

If the Bills ever leave Buffalo, I will never watch football again!

i say this as well. But for a nasty example. Say they move this year. Next season you wouldn't watch them because you still like all their players that were here when they were in Buffalo? If they were in a run for the playoffs and beyond you wouldn't time in to route for Freddy? CJ? Stevie? Kiko?

 

Something tells me most would watch just because of the love for our former players. ANC chances are we would develop hope for new players that we hadn't seen before.

 

Unfortunately I feel disgusted by it but it'll probably happen.

[Kellyto83TD]

Ok lets try again.... yes the team is in a trust, and YES ralph put in the Will it is to be SOLD! Stop with all the straw grabbing/ wishful thinking. Mary and the family told him they didn't want the team and its been in plenty of articles he wasn't leaving it to them (taxes + cost and burden of owning and running a team). It is to be SOLD. The trust is just to allow things to run as they are uninterrupted until the sale. You can bet Mary herself wants it sold sooner than later.

[FloridaSnow]

i say this as well. But for a nasty example. Say they move this year. Next season you wouldn't watch them because you still like all their players that were here when they were in Buffalo? If they were in a run for the playoffs and beyond you wouldn't time in to route for Freddy? CJ? Stevie? Kiko?

 

Something tells me most would watch just because of the love for our former players. ANC chances are we would develop hope for new players that we hadn't seen before.

 

Unfortunately I feel disgusted by it but it'll probably happen.

 

Can't speak for anyone else, but I would actually be done with the NFL. College football, baseball, and hockey give me plenty of games to watch. I'm busy; I live in Florida. There is no shortage of other things to do. The NFL is kidding itself if it believes that it's invulnerable.

Edited March 29, 2014 by fallen627

[Kirby Jackson]

Ok lets try again.... yes the team is in a trust, and YES ralph put in the Will it is to be SOLD! Stop with all the straw grabbing/ wishful thinking. Mary and the family told him they didn't want the team and its been in plenty of articles he wasn't leaving it to them (taxes + cost and burden of owning and running a team). It is to be SOLD. The trust is just to allow things to run as they are uninterrupted until the sale. You can bet Mary herself wants it sold sooner than later.

Not to nitpick but Mary Wilson is not a part of the group Mary Owen (Ralph's niece is). Jeff Littman is as well (his longtime right hand man).

[Kellyto83TD]

Not to nitpick but Mary Wilson is not a part of the group Mary Owen (Ralph's niece is). Jeff Littman is as well (his longtime right hand man).

Mary Wilson controls the will which has say over the sale of the team. The trust group runs the team while its in transition that is all it does. Mary Wilson decides when and to whom the team is sold and Ralphs will was clear its to be sold. Trust = Runs the team in transition, Mary Wilson = 100% decision to sell team

[chris heff]

I do not have a link. Sue me, in typical WNY style.

I believe I heard tonight on Channel 2 News that the team has been placed in a trust that is controlled by family members and that the team cant be sold until they say so.

I'm not trying to add any hyperbole to the situation so please don't misread me. My two cents is the Bills are never leaving us. They are self sufficient and while the family stands to gain, they also stand to lose. Mary Wilson is on the new stadium committee no? Think she will encourage these people to pursue that knowing that there is no hope? I don't. She's a pretty strong woman that I respect and I can't imagine that she would be involved in a charade.

This is our team forever providing we get a new stadium worked out. Figure 500 million public contribution though on an 750 million dollar stadium.

 

Thinking about this, if I'm right I want to say thanks Ralph.

 

Go Bills

Mary Wilson, Ralph's wife, is not on the commitee, Mary Owen, Ralph's niece is.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Mary Wilson controls the will which has say over the sale of the team. The trust group runs the team while its in transition that is all it does. Mary Wilson decides when and to whom the team is sold and Ralphs will was clear its to be sold. Trust = Runs the team in transition, Mary Wilson = 100% decision to sell team

I understand her role. I was saying that she is not a part of the 21 person group tasked with exploring the new stadium.

[Kellyto83TD]

I understand her role. I was saying that she is not a part of the 21 person group tasked with exploring the new stadium.

Oh sorry man I missed that, yeah no reason to have Mary Wilson on that team lol.

[uncle flap]

The members of the trust have not been named publicly but from what I hear the three primary members are Littmann, Brandon, and Erkie Kailbourne.

[Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail]

There is so much incorrect information in the original post that it doesn't really warrant a conversation.

[Nanker]

The executor could get permission from the probate court to not sell the team - IF all the beneficiaries of Mr. Wilson's estate agree. That's a mighty big "IF".

[Rockinon]

I do not have a link. Sue me, in typical WNY style.

I believe I heard tonight on Channel 2 News that the team has been placed in a trust that is controlled by family members and that the team cant be sold until they say so.

I'm not trying to add any hyperbole to the situation so please don't misread me. My two cents is the Bills are never leaving us. They are self sufficient and while the family stands to gain, they also stand to lose. Mary Wilson is on the new stadium committee no? Think she will encourage these people to pursue that knowing that there is no hope? I don't. She's a pretty strong woman that I respect and I can't imagine that she would be involved in a charade.

This is our team forever providing we get a new stadium worked out. Figure 500 million public contribution though on an 750 million dollar stadium.

 

Thinking about this, if I'm right I want to say thanks Ralph.

 

Go Bills

With all of the renovations to the Ralph, I don't see a new stadium happening any time soon. That doesn't mean that it won't...just not in the near future. Ralph's passing puts some uncertainty on all of this, but I agree. The Bills aren't going anywhere. The trust, I believe buys some time. No one will be buying the Bills right away. My attitude right now is to just sit back and enjoy the ride. There is no way to honor Ralph Wilson more right now than winning from the front office down to every individual player on the team. I think that will be best way to insure that the Bills stay in Buffalo. Win, baby!!

 

What we can do to help, is go to the game and root for our Bills. If people want them to stay, we have to give them a reason to. Sell out all of our home games, honor the man who brought us this team and help pump up our players. It's not rocket science. Just show support in a way that convinces everyone that the Bills belong right where they are at...in Buffalo.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Rockinon

[oman128]

How about we just stick to the facts and if you don't have any, you keep your mouth shut so as not to exacerbate the situation.

 

[CSBill]

I do not have a link. Sue me, in typical WNY style.

I believe I heard tonight on Channel 2 News that the team has been placed in a trust that is controlled by family members and that the team cant be sold until they say so.

I'm not trying to add any hyperbole to the situation so please don't misread me. My two cents is the Bills are never leaving us. They are self sufficient and while the family stands to gain, they also stand to lose. Mary Wilson is on the new stadium committee no? Think she will encourage these people to pursue that knowing that there is no hope? I don't. She's a pretty strong woman that I respect and I can't imagine that she would be involved in a charade.

This is our team forever providing we get a new stadium worked out. Figure 500 million public contribution though on an 750 million dollar stadium.

 

Thinking about this, if I'm right I want to say thanks Ralph.

 

Go Bills

 

For some reason, this is all starting to sound like a John Grisham book to me . . . in the end, the family fights like heck for it, Ralph screws them all, and a long lost, ill-legitimate, missionary child of Ralph will ends up owning the team. And as she won't really want the money, she re-invests it in the team and keeps it western NY. And the novel ends with a little know Bills kicker making a field goal from 47 yards to win the Super Bowl!

[May Day 10]

I hope not. this team has had a sad existence for a long time. the sooner they are sold the better, for both on field and staying here.

 

the closer this stretches to 2020, the more the team will sell for because it will be appealing to outside bidders. i wouldnt be overly surprised if the 7 year thing was in attempt to give toronto/mlse/rogers a chance to get their ducks in a row.

[Kellyto83TD]

From what I understand Ralph left the team in a trust so it could continue to operate while stuff was figured out. Mary Wilson was left the team and makes the decision on when and to whom to sell. Its in the mans will to SELL, so its time to deal with it. And you can bet it will be sold in no more than two years. Ralph had all his legal stuff done well before hand, there has been a plan in place between him, his lawyers and Mary so this isn't going to take a ton of time to do. It wouldn't shock me 90 days after the funeral we start hearing of Mary's lawyers start entertaining talk from potential owners. And of course Goddell etc. will be involved as well. As tight as Ralph had his estate set up I can't see a sale going more than 2 years from now tops.

[FluffHead]

The trust is cheap.

[uncle flap]

From what I understand Ralph left the team in a trust so it could continue to operate while stuff was figured out. Mary Wilson was left the team and makes the decision on when and to whom to sell. Its in the mans will to SELL, so its time to deal with it. And you can bet it will be sold in no more than two years. Ralph had all his legal stuff done well before hand, there has been a plan in place between him, his lawyers and Mary so this isn't going to take a ton of time to do. It wouldn't shock me 90 days after the funeral we start hearing of Mary's lawyers start entertaining talk from potential owners. And of course Goddell etc. will be involved as well. As tight as Ralph had his estate set up I can't see a sale going more than 2 years from now tops.

 

Trust ≠ Will

 

The terms of a will are public and the terms of a trust are not. I'm curious as to why you would jump to the conclusions that you've made in this post, considering every news item covering this topic has failed to report your assertions and even flat out contradicted some.

[3rdnlng]

For some reason, this is all starting to sound like a John Grisham book to me . . . in the end, the family fights like heck for it, Ralph screws them all, and a long lost, ill-legitimate, missionary child of Ralph will ends up owning the team. And as she won't really want the money, she re-invests it in the team and keeps it western NY. And the novel ends with a little know Bills kicker making a field goal from 47 yards to win the Super Bowl!

 

Naw, it ended with Rachel Lane marrying the kicker, one OJ Nordberg, with both returning to their hut along the Amazon.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Trust The Trust. They're not going anywhere.

 

Isn't the Trustee a guy named Jeffrey C. Littmann?

[gobillsinytown]

It's unlikely that we'll find out the full details as to the admistration of the trust. We might find out who the principal people are, but not much beyond that. Trusts of this size are usually pretty complicated, particularly trusts that involve NFL teams.

For example: It may or may not be true that the trustees are legally obligated to sell the team. Before Ralph died he did say that the team will be sold upon his death, but not when. Is there a time specification as to when it will be sold? We don't know.

Complicating the issue is the lease agreement, with its 400 million dollar termination penalty. The team can be sold, but the penalty makes it prohibitive to move the team. That changes who might be interested in buying the team. If an interested party wants to buy the team but keep Buffalo.....great. However if an interested party buys the team with intention of moving it, they will have to wait 7 years before they can move.

The point here is that there are a lot of interested parties, including: Potential buyers, the city of Buffalo, New York state, the fans of the team, the trustees and all of their people, etc.

 

Taking all of this into account, I don't think that the issue is going to be resolved anytime soon.

[Arkady Renko]

I wonder what type of restrictions the trustees might have from a fiduciary duty perspective to spend while the trust operates the team.

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

I had the weirdest dream that Papa from Papa Johns bought the Bills. Hilarious maybe I need to get interested in other things until the draft.

[gobillsinytown]

I had the weirdest dream that Papa from Papa Johns bought the Bills. Hilarious maybe I need to get interested in other things until the draft.

Peyton Manning has a bunch of Papa Johns franchises......good move after Colorado voted to legalize pot.

So now all we have to do is get pot legalized in WNY. Superbowl AND $$$ !

[bbb]

Not to nitpick but Mary Wilson is not a part of the group Mary Owen (Ralph's niece is). Jeff Littman is as well (his longtime right hand man).

 

That's not nitpicking. I was going to ask if this was true, since it seemed rather important.

[beerme1]

Not to nitpick but Mary Wilson is not a part of the group Mary Owen (Ralph's niece is). Jeff Littman is as well (his longtime right hand man).

 

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

 

There is so much incorrect information in the original post that it doesn't really warrant a conversation.

 

Thanks for contributing. Other than stating Mary Wilson which was incorrect do you have anything to add? Even humor maybe? Anything?

[Pills -N- Bills]

If the Bills ever leave Buffalo, I will never watch football again!

 

Is what we have been watching for the last 15 years football?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Mary Wilson does NOT control the will, the executor controls the will That could be Mary, but so far the only thing that was reported is the Littman is ONE of the executors of the trust, haven't seen anything about the will, likely it's a pour-over will anyway. Could be the same people, could be totally different people. From what's been reported the team was left to the trust at least for now, whether the instructions are to sell it or not is unknown and has been mentioned, may never be known as the details of the trust don't need to be made public. A good accountant likely could back calculate what was done based on tax filings, but would be way after the fact.

 

While I know RW has stated publicly that his family didn't want to run the team, first off he hasn't stated that in quite awhile. From what I've read, every time some sportswriter mentions that it's based on what RW stated years ago I have not seen any statements made by RW lately to that affect. Maybe that is still the case or maybe RW plans today are to leave the team in the trust indefinitely and Mary and the remaining beneficiaries get the profits from the trust every year. The trust makes zero profit every year, as all the money is passed through to the heirs which actually is kind of common practices in trusts to do that as trust tax rates are much higher at low income levels, though in this case Mary's personal tax rates may be as high as the trust rates, though she may have many things sheltered. While they are likely both millionaires or even billionaires, they don't appear to live lavish lifestyles, so could be she won't see most of the money, thus low tax rates.

 

 

Mary Wilson controls the will which has say over the sale of the team. The trust group runs the team while its in transition that is all it does. Mary Wilson decides when and to whom the team is sold and Ralphs will was clear its to be sold. Trust = Runs the team in transition, Mary Wilson = 100% decision to sell team

[KGUNBILLS]

Is what we have been watching for the last 15 years football?

It might not be much, but it's all we got brother.

[keepthefaith]

To speculate what might happen this soon and without intimate knowledge of the trust and the legal expertise to explain it isn't very useful There are many scenarios that could play out over a period of years. The Bills aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The last thing the family and team leadership need right now is any media attention on this. I'm sure the Bills will be making public statements to the community in the coming weeks and months.

 

Speculation on this is about as useful as a mock draft done by people who know little about football.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

As of this year we have to spend at least 89% to the cap so on $133 mil. They have to spend $118,370,000 to the cap. They will do that once they get through the draft.

 

Sad as they could've afforded Byrd.

 

I think Byrd would've taken less to leave for a playoff team. That's what sucks about this playoff drought. Until we start winning, our best developed talent will keep losing to better teams. This draft has to be a homerun. Seems like we say this every year

 

and Levitre,

 

I think until we get a new FO and scouting department I don't believe we will win much.

 

If the Bills ever leave Buffalo, I will never watch football again!

 

I will because I love football but it will not be the same nonetheless.

[BillnutinHouston]

Interesting note on GR this morning. Howard played a clip of Poloncarz talking on another station (WBEN?) where he (Poloncarz) states that he's been made privy to part of the trust under a nondisclosure agreement.

 

Howard was trying to speculate that that is what might account for Poloncarz' optimism recently, I.e., that there may be something in the trust that points to the team staying in Buffalo. Hard to tell.

 

Wondering if any attorneys out there can speculate on the significance of the disclosure to Poloncarz.

Edited March 31, 2014 by BillnutinHouston

[May Day 10]

i mentioned in the "whats next" thread, but on WGR Polancarz said that he was aware of a number of inquiries on the purchase of the team in recent years from both local and non-local parties.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Would it make sense for someone to buy to team in the next 2 years knowing that they would have to wait 4 more until they could move it?

 

CBF

[CodeMonkey]

Interesting note on GR this morning. Howard played a clip of Poloncarz talking on another station (WBEN?) where he (Poloncarz) states that he's been made privy to part of the trust under a nondisclosure agreement.

 

Howard was trying to speculate that that is what might account for Poloncarz' optimism recently, I.e., that there may be something in the trust that points to the team staying in Buffalo. Hard to tell.

 

Wondering if any attorneys out there can speculate on the significance of the disclosure to Poloncarz.

I'm not an attorney, but I have recently been the executor of a Will as well as a Trustee (not anything near as large as the Bills). It is not unusual for stakeholders to be made aware of parts of a trust that could significantly impact them. Given the contract between the Bills and the County I'd be surprised if he hadn't been made aware of at least some of the details regarding the trust.

Edited March 31, 2014 by CodeMonkey