A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particlar order.....

[first_and_ten]

I don't think it should be underestimated how good of a team Cincinnati has right now. They seem solid in every position.

 

With the exception of Denver I am having a hard time naming a team in the AFC that I am certain is better than them.

 

KC? Reid has them playing pretty solid football right now but I still need to see them beat someone better than Dallas or Philly.

 

New England? Somehow they keep putting together wins when it seems they should lose, plus Cincy beat them head to head.

 

Indy? Maybe, they are playing well too and have better QB play.

 

In any case Cincy has to be one of the best few teams in the AFC right now and a beat all to hell Bills team still could have won the game. I'm disappointed for sure but this 2-4 doesn't feel the same as the dead in the water 2-4 teams of years past.

 

You're right, it doesn't feel the same. The losing still hurts but I feel the Bills can compete with just about anyone. That feeling was not there in past years. They have been in every game so far.

[Orton's Arm]

At this point, my biggest concern with this team is the coaching.

 

1. To the original point about Hogan... how can he still be out there with all his drops and Easley on the bench. Every fan watching the game can see that Hogan doesn't have it. Why can't the coaches?

 

2. This continual running up the middle, off center. It's just not working. Stop it. Every fan watching the game can see it. What can't the coaches.

 

3. That 4th and goal play. Really? First of all, after 3 tries, take the easy FG, tie the game and keep your offense's confidence flying high. But, if you do run a play, why pick a play you rarely ever run that calls for a back up lineman and the fullback to be e 2 receiving options? Whe does that make sense?

 

4. OT. you can't go conservative. I understand that an interception ends the game, but punting from your 10 isn't much better. The QB had just had a great drive to tie the game, you gotta give him a chance. The run, run, pass conservative plan is just wrong there.

 

Once again, I see us losing a game that just looked winnable. But our coaching and game plan just came up lacking when the young players needed it the most.

 

Good post!

 

I also fixed a minor error.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Edwards' Arm

[macaroni]

The thing I noticed about the game yesterday was the Bills actually changed up the play call on first down, they actually threw the ball a bit on first and ten. As a matter of fact the overall play calling seemed somehow different than when E. J. was behind center. Did anybody else feel this way????

 

I don't know if the coaching staff is trying to "protect" E. J. by running a vanillia offense while he is in there ... or E. J. is audibling out of of some plays ... or the O co-ordinator just tumbled to the fact that we have the talent to actually mix up the run and pass plays.

 

Neither of the three options really make sense to me ... maybe the third one a little bit ... and maybe the change in offensive game plan is all in my head.

[tennesseeboy]

Puzzled by Gilmore being out there with only one hand. I don't see how he can be effective, no matter how good he is, at cb with that club where his hand should be. I'm cutting the guy a break until he can play with both hands.

[mead107]

The no call on the pass interference was just unbelievably wrong.

 

I think when they sit down in new York and review the refs they should be fined for blowen calls just like they fine players for doing something wrong. It may make them think twice before the make non calls for there favorite teams. Something has to be done

[thewildrabbit]

Just to let fans know what the Bengals DC game plan was against PS QB Thaddeus Lewis.

 

"Lewis came alive late and profited from some questionable play calling and execution from the Bengals’ defense. Only blitzed five times on his 41 drop-backs, two of those were Lewis’ fourth quarter touchdown passes"

 

"- Pressured 11 times, Thaddeus Lewis attempted only four passes (zero completions) and was sacked five times with two scrambles."

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/14/refo-cin-buf-week-6/

 

This tells that most of the game the Bengals mostly only rushed with their front four, so the Bills O line really wasn't tested like they were against the Jets, and their all out blitzing tactics. This reminds me if the Patriots (week one) defensive game plan against EJ in not blitzing and thinking the rookie will make mistakes on his own. Still, Lewis was sacked five times, and I would really hate to think of how badly he would have looked if Cincy's D had played against the Bills the way they played against the Patriots the previous week.

Edited October 14, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[Coach Tuesday]

Just to let fans know what the Bengals DC game plan was against PS QB Thaddeus Lewis.

 

"Lewis came alive late and profited from some questionable play calling and execution from the Bengals’ defense. Only blitzed five times on his 41 drop-backs, two of those were Lewis’ fourth quarter touchdown passes"

 

"- Pressured 11 times, Thaddeus Lewis attempted only four passes (zero completions) and was sacked five times with two scrambles."

 

https://www.profootb...cin-buf-week-6/

 

This tells that most of the game the Bengals mostly only rushed with their front four, so the Bills O line really wasn't tested like they were against the Jets, and their all out blitzing tactics. This reminds me if the Patriots (week one) defensive game plan against EJ in not blitzing and thinking the rookie will make mistakes on his own. Still, Lewis was sacked five times, and I would really hate to think of how badly he would have looked if Cincy's D had played against the Bills the way they played against the Patriots the previous week.

 

You can bet that the Dolphins will be bringing the heavy blitz next week. It could get ugly.

[mrags]

 

 

Simon if you have noticed, I don't argue with you all that much about anything, let alone about defensive backs. But my friend, Gilmore hurt us today. And I do await the time that he proves to be worth such an early pick, let alone a "shutdown corner." Do you see it coming?

i agree with a few things here.

 

Number 1. Don't ever disagree with Simon

 

Number 2. Gilmore definitely hurt us today.

 

He was an absolute liability with that club in his hand. He was favoring which side he hit with and one arming tackles because he was worried about it. IMO.

 

But that should reflect how well he played last year as a rookie. He definitely looked good last year and we can only hope it continues and he progresses. But yiu were right about yesterday. I suspect that he will be limited as long as that club Is on his hand. IMO, if they are going to use him with that thing in, use him in nickle and dime packages where he's not covering the top WRs. That should even things up a bit.

[zow2]

Two things not mentioned that stoodout for me on Sunday...

 

The Bengals front 7 were scary. I haven't felt that way about any D we've played this year. Those guys seemed athletic and angry. I give Thad and the O alot of credit for what they did out there. If Cinci's offense can produce, they will be a tough out in the playoffs.

 

Was it me or did Jermaine Gresham blatantly hold on those screen passes. He would square up and grab our guys by the outside of shoulder pads, gripping them, and drive the Bills defender down the field. Is that really allowed? seems like holding but in a pushing manner....where the defender can't get off. If it is allowed then every Bills TE should use that technique...but our guys often get called for holding.

[thebandit27]

i agree with a few things here.

 

Number 1. Don't ever disagree with Simon

 

Number 2. Gilmore definitely hurt us today.

 

He was an absolute liability with that club in his hand. He was favoring which side he hit with and one arming tackles because he was worried about it. IMO.

 

But that should reflect how well he played last year as a rookie. He definitely looked good last year and we can only hope it continues and he progresses. But yiu were right about yesterday. I suspect that he will be limited as long as that club Is on his hand. IMO, if they are going to use him with that thing in, use him in nickle and dime packages where he's not covering the top WRs. That should even things up a bit.

 

His club hand definitely limited his ability to fight blocks and tackle; I think we all agree on that.

 

I'm still waiting on this one, however: how many completions did he allow, given that he played a decent number of defensive snaps?

[HurlyBurly51]

Two things not mentioned that stoodout for me on Sunday...

 

The Bengals front 7 were scary. I haven't felt that way about any D we've played this year. Those guys seemed athletic and angry. I give Thad and the O alot of credit for what they did out there. If Cinci's offense can produce, they will be a tough out in the playoffs.

 

Was it me or did Jermaine Gresham blatantly hold on those screen passes. He would square up and grab our guys by the outside of shoulder pads, gripping them, and drive the Bills defender down the field. Is that really allowed? seems like holding but in a pushing manner....where the defender can't get off. If it is allowed then every Bills TE should use that technique...but our guys often get called for holding.

 

Yes, I saw that on some of those Gresham blocks as well. The announcers even commented on one play the great block by Gresham. But that is holding. Just didn't get called.

[Russ 'Em]

Bill usually I can't wait to read your post about the games each week. Having said that, you phoned this one in. Maybe you wrote off the Bills chances early like the rest of the country and therefore didn't watch as intently as usual. If I see you stroke Searcy's ego, or bag on Kyle Williams in one more of these posts I'll puke. I think you put more effort into looking up Grateful Dead tunes then watching Gilmore play. If you did you would see that he was playing with one hand. A press corner playing one handed is the wrong move by the coaching staff. I did agree with you on two points though. Chris Hogan? Seriously? Easly really only plays ST? What a joke. I know people didn't want to keep around a developmental WR prospect, but could Darrick Rodgers be any more useless then Hogan? The second point I agree with, no its not giving kudos to a kid that juggles the ball every attempt he makes to catch it, but Coach Marrone going for it on fourth down. People are going to hate, but with a team like ours, we need to be aggressive; Offense, defense and special teams.

 

Come on Bill. Every one plays through injuries. You need to step it up.

[CodeMonkey]

A press corner playing one handed is the wrong move by the coaching staff.

I agree 100%.

 

but Coach Marrone going for it on fourth down. People are going to hate, but with a team like ours, we need to be aggressive; Offense, defense and special teams.

There is a very fine line between aggressive and stupid. And with the play called, along with the personnel in the game, they crossed the line in my opinion.

[FLFan]

 

I agree 100%.

 

 

There is a very fine line between aggressive and stupid. And with the play called, along with the personnel in the game, they crossed the line in my opinion.

The real problem were the calls on second and third downs. Those were the times to be more agressive. At that point, they should have kicked the field goal, which ended up being the difference in the game. Mike Smith of the Falcons made the same boneheaded mistake against the Jets and it cost him that game. I have seen him do it repeatedly, so clearly he is incapable of learning. Hopefully, Marrone is not.

[Fixxxer]

Can someone tell when the obvious PI on Goodwin happened? somehow I missed that play and I would like to watch it.

[Bill from NYC]

Erik Pears, Urbik, Wood, Legursky.......these are veterans. I will be surprised if at least two of those guys...Pears and Legursky...don't need to be replaced with starting quality players by next season.

 

As much as I respect him, I'm not sure if Kyle Williams will last much longer. He has taken a big time beating.

[KGUNBILLS]

The thing I noticed about the game yesterday was the Bills actually changed up the play call on first down, they actually threw the ball a bit on first and ten. As a matter of fact the overall play calling seemed somehow different than when E. J. was behind center. Did anybody else feel this way????

 

I don't know if the coaching staff is trying to "protect" E. J. by running a vanillia offense while he is in there ... or E. J. is audibling out of of some plays ... or the O co-ordinator just tumbled to the fact that we have the talent to actually mix up the run and pass plays.

 

Neither of the three options really make sense to me ... maybe the third one a little bit ... and maybe the change in offensive game plan is all in my head.

It would make sense to get EJ as comfortable with the offense as possible. They don't want him to be unsure about his ability. I would think they are taking baby steps with him to allow him to develop. Also, it makes the FO look good if he does well.

[macaroni]

It would make sense to get EJ as comfortable with the offense as possible. They don't want him to be unsure about his ability. I would think they are taking baby steps with him to allow him to develop. Also, it makes the FO look good if he does well.

But making him constantly face 3rd and long isn't a real confidence builder ...

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Totally agree on the Easley comments, this guy could be the big, physical receiver the team needs but apparently someone on the coaching staff doesn't think he's worth a shot. He could be another Eric Moulds.

With Stevie out, it seemed to me Hogan got most of the slot work in the 3 wide set and Graham/Woods handled the 2 wide sets. I think we would see more of Easley if Graham or Woods went down, I don't think he's much of a slot guy and more of an outside guy.

 

I think/hope we will see more of Goodwin instead of Hogan in the 3 wide sets if Stevie is out, assuming Goodwin is healthy. I assume Goodwin wasn't ready this week just coming off the injury.

 

Thad needs to find Chandler more often, he was getting open.

[PolishDave]

Thad needs to find Chandler more often, he was getting open.

 

I have seen a few people on this forum mention this and I agree.

 

Chandler is being under-utilized in a big way. He looks open a lot. He gets the last 2 tough yards. He also tends to catch the slightly off target passes that the other receivers drop.

 

If fitz could complete passes to him as often as he did, then these other quarterbacks should be able to do the same. I think it is a hidden asset on this team that could produce very handsome dividends if he was targeted in the passing game more.

[BADOLBILZ]

Hmmm....we have some veterans but this is a very young team.

 

At the start of the season we had.....

 

....9 starters who had 2 or less years of experience....

Williams, Alonso, Dareus, Gilmore, Bradham, Woods, Graham, Glenn, Manuel

 

....with a further 5+ key backups with 2 or less years of exp....

Summers, Goodwin, Robey/Rogers, Searcy, Tuel/Lewis

 

....and another 5 starters who had 4 or less years of exp....

Legursky/Brown, Wood, Urbik, Spiller, Carrington

 

....with a further 3+ key backups who had 4 or less years of exp....

Legursky/Brown, Moates, Hughes

 

 

As previously pointed out, we have the 3rd youngest team in the league......with 14 of 22 starters having 4 or less years experience coming into the season......plus another 8+ key backups.

 

The Bills rank as one of the youngest teams in terms of the average age of every player on their entire roster but that average is made low because of depth.....not because of their 28 year old starting offensive lineman.

 

Depth is a major problem for the team. Buoying your argument by calling Nigel Bradham and TJ Graham starters is a bit of a reach. I pointed out the key contributors.....you brought up Justin Rogers and Colin Wood.

 

Reality: their roster is basically the same age as those of winning teams like the Seahawks, Packers, Patriots and Chiefs.....and those teams didn't start the season with only 2 rookie QB's on their roster.

 

Half of the entire age difference between the Patriots and Bills rosters is the difference between the ages of Tom Brady and EJ Manuel. One player. That is how close these numbers are.

 

The point is that youth is not an excuse for this team.

 

Too many excuses for bad decisions are made based on the mistaken belief that the Bills are young....other teams are not....and therefore they must be graded on some kind of curve.

 

Does anyone remember 5 years ago when the Bills started the youngest offensive line to open the season for an NFL team since the merger? Or the WR corps in Chan's first year that had no career starts coming into the season? Who is still buying the "young team" excuse?

Edited October 15, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[Sisyphean Bills]

The Bills rank as one of the youngest teams in terms of the average age of every player on their entire roster but that average is made low because of depth.....not because of their 28 year old starting offensive lineman.

 

Depth is a major problem for the team. Buoying your argument by calling Nigel Bradham and TJ Graham starters is a bit of a reach. I pointed out the key contributors.....you brought up Justin Rogers and Colin Wood.

 

Reality: their roster is basically the same age as those of winning teams like the Seahawks, Packers, Patriots and Chiefs.....and those teams didn't start the season with only 2 rookie QB's on their roster.

 

Half of the entire age difference between the Patriots and Bills rosters is the difference between the ages of Tom Brady and EJ Manuel. One player. That is how close these numbers are.

 

The point is that youth is not an excuse for this team.

 

Too many excuses for bad decisions are made based on the mistaken belief that the Bills are young....other teams are not....and therefore they must be graded on some kind of curve.

 

Does anyone remember 5 years ago when the Bills started the youngest offensive line to open the season for an NFL team since the merger? Or the WR corps in Chan's first year that had no career starts coming into the season? Who is still buying the "young team" excuse?

 

I prefer this one: "Since the Bills are in a total rebuild, they had to <blank>." Where blank can be occupied by whatever move or non-move one may or may not imagine.

[Agent 91]

Why are we talking about Gilmore? Defending Gilmore? Did anyone notice the original poster said that Kiko Alonso... 22 tackle Kiko didnt play well? We are defending a 2nd year player, who is good but not a top 10 draft pick worthy cornerback, when your ROOKIE middle linebacking stud who I might add won defensive rookie of the month was classed together with a hot and cold dareus and a hobbled k williams. I love reading peoples thoughts but I feel like if we have to make excuses for Gilmore why not come to Alonsos aid a bit.

 

Sorry for the rant

[Agent 91]

 

The biggest problem he had last year was with some truly awful technique that occasionally got him in trouble and that never seemed to get corrected throughout the year. I pin a lot of that on Catavalos, who never seemed to do a single thing for any of the Bills DB's in all his time here.

Considering the significant improvement we've seen in the gmaes of both McKelvin and AWilliams, I have high hopes that Gilmore is going to take the same step forward when he actually returns for real.

 

Love this notion

 

Thank you for highlighting Hogan, there was a reason he was cut from 3 different teams. Please stop with the Easley chants, he's no better than Hogan.

 

Thank you. I'm still waiting for clarification as to why people think Easley is the answer. 2 regimes who think Easley doesn't deserve the field and arm chair coaches know better. We need to be looking for line help and wr help before we pay 6 qbs. I politely ask anyone to explain to me why they think Easley makes the difference

[Agent 91]

 

 

I think the exact opposite is at play sometimes - people can't bear the thought of whiffing on another top 10 pick so they will not/cannot admit he has looked downright awful out there at times. I could care less where he was picked. Based on draft position alone we should have the best secondary around in McKelvin and Gilmore, but we don't.

 

I can get with you on this but McKelvin. In my opinion, is our best corner now and I credit that greatly to Donnie Henderson. Gilmore is not my favorite... I would probably call him my whipping boy but a corner corp of Gilmore McKelvin Brooks and Robey. I could sign up for that

[dave mcbride]

Why are we talking about Gilmore? Defending Gilmore? Did anyone notice the original poster said that Kiko Alonso... 22 tackle Kiko didnt play well? We are defending a 2nd year player, who is good but not a top 10 draft pick worthy cornerback, when your ROOKIE middle linebacking stud who I might add won defensive rookie of the month was classed together with a hot and cold dareus and a hobbled k williams. I love reading peoples thoughts but I feel like if we have to make excuses for Gilmore why not come to Alonsos aid a bit.

 

Sorry for the rant

Alonso had 9 tackles and 13 assists, actually. More importantly, the number of tackles isn't the greatest measure by a long shot. Unless it's a TD, *someone* makes a tackle on every play. The more plays the opposing offense runs, the more tackles a defense makes. It's like the NBA -- even the worst teams average 85 points, and *someone* has to be the leading scorer. Just because you average 19-20 points for a terrible team doesn't make you a good offensive player.

 

Alonso is a good player, but he did not have a good first half against Cincy. He was bad, in fact. It happens.

[thewildrabbit]

Alonso had 9 tackles and 13 assists, actually. More importantly, the number of tackles isn't the greatest measure by a long shot. Unless it's a TD, *someone* makes a tackle on every play. The more plays the opposing offense runs, the more tackles a defense makes. It's like the NBA -- even the worst teams average 85 points, and *someone* has to be the leading scorer. Just because you average 19-20 points for a terrible team doesn't make you a good offensive player.

 

Alonso is a good player, but he did not have a good first half against Cincy. He was bad, in fact. It happens.

Jeez, the Bills now have a rookie LBer that was named Septembers rookie of the month and has a good shot at defensive rookie of the year. The steal of the 2013 draft!

 

The kid is LEADING the NFL in tackles with 66 after only 6 games

 

Its just to darn bad the rest of the Bills defense doesn't play up to the level of Kiko!

[K-9]

Jeez, the Bills now have a rookie LBer that was named Septembers rookie of the month and has a good shot at defensive rookie of the year. The steal of the 2013 draft!

 

The kid is LEADING the NFL in tackles with 66 after only 6 games

 

Its just to darn bad the rest of the Bills defense doesn't play up to the level of Kiko!

 

None of that changes the fact he played a crappy first half against the Bengals. No biggie. Like ANY young player at ANY position, it's always a work in progress. Frankly, I'm surprised he's been as good as he has as consistently as he has given the position he plays and the responsibilities it entails. But he's gonna have some clunkers along the way. And he did on Sunday.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Agent 91]

I can honestly tell you as a former high school and college basketball player, and current semi pro football defensive end. 22 tackles is nowhere near as easy as it is to score 19-20. I don't care how it goes to get your hat in on 22 stops is quite a feat. Alonso is a wrecking ball and it only magnifies that when Dareus and Williams didn't have a good day. If your DT play is bad the o line can constantly get to the second level... Kiko... who teams know about. Game plan for. And almost are starting to fear. Its easy to magnify a middle linebacker playing poorly when he is surrounded by players who rent getting the job done. I will rewatch the first half but like another poster said if the D played like he did... we would jave fireworks on the field.

 

You are right, tackles are not the most important measure. But let me ask you, how many of those runs up the gut were long gainers. Inversely how many were bottled up by the d line. My point is Kiko had to be there.

[Bill from NYC]

I can honestly tell you as a former high school and college basketball player, and current semi pro football defensive end. 22 tackles is nowhere near as easy as it is to score 19-20. I don't care how it goes to get your hat in on 22 stops is quite a feat. Alonso is a wrecking ball and it only magnifies that when Dareus and Williams didn't have a good day. If your DT play is bad the o line can constantly get to the second level... Kiko... who teams know about. Game plan for. And almost are starting to fear. Its easy to magnify a middle linebacker playing poorly when he is surrounded by players who rent getting the job done. I will rewatch the first half but like another poster said if the D played like he did... we would jave fireworks on the field.

 

You are right, tackles are not the most important measure. But let me ask you, how many of those runs up the gut were long gainers. Inversely how many were bottled up by the d line. My point is Kiko had to be there.

 

Nobody is saying that Kiko isn't a good player. In fact, I think that if the kid stays healthy he is on the way to being one of the best linebackers in the entire league. That said rookies make mistakes, but again....it's all good.

 

And btw, as he ages, learns, and perhaps even gains a pound or 2, he is also on his way to being one of the best bargain draft picks this franchise has ever made. I know we are the Bills but there would be some great names on that list.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Nobody is saying that Kiko isn't a good player. In fact, I think that if the kid stays healthy he is on the way to being one of the best linebackers in the entire league. That said rookies make mistakes, but again....it's all good.

 

And btw, as he ages, learns, and perhaps even gains a pound or 2, he is also on his way to being one of the best bargain draft picks this franchise has ever made. I know we are the Bills but there would be some great names on that list.

 

Thurman Thomas was a pretty good second rounder. And the problem with bargain draft picks is the Bills have to let them walk on their second contract. It's what you do in a rebuild.

[Agent 91]

 

 

Nobody is saying that Kiko isn't a good player. In fact, I think that if the kid stays healthy he is on the way to being one of the best linebackers in the entire league. That said rookies make mistakes, but again....it's all good.

 

And btw, as he ages, learns, and perhaps even gains a pound or 2, he is also on his way to being one of the best bargain draft picks this franchise has ever made. I know we are the Bills but there would be some great names on that list.

 

Lol agreed. I think more of my rant was because everyone seems to keep giving Gilmore a pass. No hard feelings