Did the Bills make a gaffe choosing Manuel over Smith?

[CodeMonkey]

Should they have taken Geno?

I'll let you know in about 3 years.

[Coach Tuesday]

The Bills gaffed by gambling with a rookie OC, no left guard, expelling two competent veteran backup QBs in the preseason, provoking a fight with their best player on defense, and hiring a crony to coach the special teams. Those gambles have blown up in their faces, big time. It's the typical Buffalo Bills confluence of bad luck combined with stupidity.

 

EJ is not the problem.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Coach Tuesday

[YoloinOhio]

statistically they are TIED:

 

passer rating rank:

#23- Smith

#24- EJ

 

QBR :

#21- Smith

#23- EJ

Falcons are ranked LAST in the NFL in opposing QBR. That is all.

 

The rest of the teams who needed a QB did not have Geno in the 1st round. Just because a survey of a whopping 4 NFL teams said they didn't have a 1st round grade on EJ doesn't mean he isn't worthy of being drafted there.

[paupmvp1995]

The Jets offense is way more sophisticated than ours with multiple formations, personnel groupings,motion, misdirection, and high percentage pass plays that keep the defense off balance and guessing which increases their probability for success. It has more to do with the design of the offense then the QB.

Great analysis of the Jets. I was at the Falcons-Jets game last nite, and the Jets had receivers wide open all over the field. When Geno has time he is very accurate. When he is rushed he hesitates and is not overly elusive and goes down easily. The Jets offense is constantly substituting 3 players on almost every play. #87 Cumberland is a player. He is big and fast and can get down the seam. (The Falcons pass defense down the middle of the field is atrocious btw) The Bills passing scheme is lousy. Watch the replay on a lot of plays and noone is running a route more than 10 yards down the field. Stevie Johnson is running 4-5 yard crosses and turn ins. What other team has their best WR doing that? There is no verticality to the passing game. That being said EJ looks raw. He has potential, but the jury is out. His accuracy is not what it should be in an NFL starting QB. Will he get better-that remains to be seen. Lets hope so. But some better receivers would sure help. This teams biggest need, more than a corner or a LG is a big receiver w speed, and a TE w speed. With our aggressive D, a team like Denver would never lose..

[BigBuff423]

I'll say that I like EJ better in the long run, but Geno played well last night, there's no debating that. Is he ready to have his bust put in the Hall of Fame?? Absolutely not! Did he play well last night, and last night only, Yes. Let's leave long-term projections in their place...time will tell....will Geno have a better career than EJ? If you know that, go to Vegas, and put a year's salary on whatever number / game you're thinking, because you obviously have much better foresight than most of the GMs in the NFL...otherwise, let's just see how each develops over the next 3 seasons....

[RevWarRifleman]

Should they have taken Geno?

NO! End of story.

[Storm Front]

The Bills shouldn't have taken either one of them.

[Kellyto83TD]

dude,

did you see the comedy of errors by Geno Smith prior to the game?

 

The Jets have a BF2 with Gino, that's butt fumble 2.

 

He has a long ball pass that defenses are allowing. does that mean he's great, or does it mean that the defenses he plays have sucked on deep plays.

 

I go with the latter

 

Humm Jets were supposed to be a Dumpster fire this year, what is their record, what is the Bills? EJ was supposed to be this great, smart QB and a really nice guy. Geno a thug with an attitude. Right now give me the Thug with the attitude.

 

I am sick of nice guys. Give me a team of pure !@#$s that win games and hopefully a superbowl.

[Hsp08]

I think they will both mature into excellent QB's. I look forward to the rivalry in the coming years. Which ever team puts together a better team behind them will have the better career showing. A bit of the Esiason & Kelly comparison.

[eme123]

Ugghh. Is this thread serious??

 

Hey if you want Geno that bad feel free to switch alliances. See how being a Jets fan works out for you.

 

EJ is our guy. He is the guy WE chose. Get over it.

[Realist]

The biggest difference between EJ and Geno right now, is their Offensive Coordinators/Game Plans.

 

I'm happy with EJ right now, he's looked pretty good over the 5 games he played although the Jets Defensive scheme may have been too much for him, for that I give credit to Rex and his staff. Geno looked great last night against a 1-4 team and looked like crap in a couple of other games. It's still way too early to tell how all of this plays out. I love it how people are writing off EJ already. Personally, I hope they both become good/great NFL QB's and look forward to great match-ups in the future ala Kelly/Marino.

[bobobonators]

the bills made a gaffe drafting ej waaayyy too early. but thats billslike. the didnt make a mistake passing on geno---who is a highly erratic..poor decisionmaker

Base on what, a limited preseason due to injury and 5 games of the season so far? You draft on upside and hope for the best. Way too early to even have this thread.

Edited October 8, 2013 by bobobonators

[NoSaint]

Add BOTH QB's experience to date, and you have just barely more than half a season.

 

And they are both talented - contrary to many opinions on here.

 

They will have good games, they will have bad games. We will see which way each trend long term. I was a geno supporter pre-draft, but didnt think where he ended up suited him and his development well. We will see.

[bowery4]

Do people really still use the word, gaffe?

[BuffaloBillsForever]

So Geno has showed he can throw an accurate long ball. Doesn't miss wide open receivers and tight ends like EJ and has shown he is durable unlike EJ. Head to head Geno outplayed EJ.

 

5 games...short sample but Geno is playing better right now. To think otherwise is being delusional.

[eball]

Everyone knows you make decisions about who was a better draft pick 5 games into their rookie seasons.

 

Duh.

[Wayne Cubed]

So Geno has showed he can throw an accurate long ball. Doesn't miss wide open receivers and tight ends like EJ and has shown he is durable unlike EJ. Head to head Geno outplayed EJ.

 

5 games...short sample but Geno is playing better right now. To think otherwise is being delusional.

 

That was this week. Who played better last week?

[zow2]

I was never a fan of Geno at all but even i can admit he has looked really good at times. I think he is a very confident kid and he throws more high risk, high reward passes down the middle of the field than EJ. I'd like to see EJ take a chance now and then to fit the ball into a tight space. Geno does it. The Bills coaches do call some downfield passes but as pointed out during telecasts, EJ checks down alot.

 

Now with this latest injury, it seems like EJ is going to have to start over in a sense, and get used to the speed of the game when he comes back. Meanwhile Geno is getting better each week and more confidence. Ugh!

[eball]

My brief assessment of EJ and Geno at this point?

 

EJ -- very careful, needs work on his feet, not taking many chances, but shows excellent presence and is a natural leader

 

Geno -- more of a gunslinger, throws a pretty ball, but has zero pocket presence and takes chances

 

Long term I still prefer EJ's qualities, because we know he has the physical tools.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Should they have taken Geno?

 

Omg. I knew this was coming.

 

No.

 

They made the right choice with EJ

 

 

CBF

[C.Biscuit97]

My brief assessment of EJ and Geno at this point?

 

EJ -- very careful, needs work on his feet, not taking many chances, but shows excellent presence and is a natural leader

 

Geno -- more of a gunslinger, throws a pretty ball, but has zero pocket presence and takes chances

 

Long term I still prefer EJ's qualities, because we know he has the physical tools.

 

Good breakdown. Also, Smith has the more veteran coaching staff and the Jets might have a top D. I thought Smith got way too much hate, but I still like Manuel over him. But this thread is insanely early.

[QCity]

But this thread is insanely early.

 

It's a great troll thread. Notice the lack of any initial discussion? Expect a few more years of threads like this one.

[IDBillzFan]

Way too early to even have this thread.

 

Too early in the game or too early in the season? Either way, it's ridiculous to think you know for certain either was a good or bad pick at this point. Not to mention, if the Falcons aren't (a) dumb enough to skip the field goal at the end of the first half and (b) especially dumb enough to think running it twice there was a good plan, it's pretty easy to see Geno didn't win that game so much as the coach blew it. Geno made some good throws, but you didn't see anything last night you haven't seen from EJ when given the call.

 

But some folks, y'know...

[ax4782]

So Geno has showed he can throw an accurate long ball. Doesn't miss wide open receivers and tight ends like EJ and has shown he is durable unlike EJ. Head to head Geno outplayed EJ.

 

5 games...short sample but Geno is playing better right now. To think otherwise is being delusional.

 

You're kidding right? The only delusional thing is to 1.) suggest that you can determine who is better after five games, and 2.) suggest that Geno's rating has nothing to do with the terrible pass defenses that he has played in the last four weeks. He has three (or four) times the number of interceptions and turnovers that EJ does. Why? Because he might have a good arm (which EJ has shown he also has in several of the games we've played) but he is a very poor decision maker with the football. Long term, that is not going to change, because Geno is not particularly football smart. When the OC calls for a double fly route, throw it as far as you can, anyone can do that. What happens to Geno when he plays a better defense? He implodes, and has 4 turnovers. EJ has not played a game nearly that bad. Consistency is the key to determining which QB is going to be better, or is playing better right now. EJ has been more consistent. And, as I mentioned in another post today, people have quickly forgotten how well he was playing on Thursday night before he got hurt. Before he left the game, the Browns defense couldn't stop us, either in the run game or passing the ball. People need to take a step back and evaluate both QBs play as a whole, rather than making irrational statements after reviewing just one week.

[l< j]

I don't think this is necessarily a trolling thread. Remember that up until the end of the Bills-Jets game, most here were pretty confident that EJ was well ahead of the other guy, and many felt that there wasn't much of a comparison. Today, the draft day pouting doesn't matter as much as the 2 injuries to EJ that are going to prevent him from working out the problems he has.

 

The single most important thing we needed from this season was to know that we had our guy under center. Not an all-world guy, necessarily, but someone we could reasonably project into the role of franchise QB. The Jets had the same issue. With half the preseason and maybe half the regular season lost to injury, I think there is a better chance that we won't know what we have at the end of the season than we will have our hopes for EJ confirmed. And I think the Jets have to be pretty comfortable with where Geno is headed.

 

These 2 will always be compared to each other. Just the way it is going to be. Making that comparison is not trolling.

 

kj

 

Adding: I agree it's too early to make a final assessment about them, but many were willing to do that earlier when it looked like EJ was ahead. Thinking of it as a marathon, I think EJ has fallen well behind.

Edited October 8, 2013 by l< j

[1billsfan]

Geno Smith looks pretty good. There's no denying that. I think almost everyone thought that while he had the most natural talent, the pressure of NYC would crush him. The thing that will make or break him as his career progresses is how he handles a defense that can pressure him in the pocket. If the Jets can give him a very good offensive line then they are set at QB for a long time.

 

As for EJ Manuel, the Bills went with the QB who had waaaay more in the leadership and steadiness department than natural throwing ability. They felt that they can "fine tune" the rawness of his mechanics which in turn will make him a more accurate thrower. So far EJ has been exactly what we thought he'd be, a leader who can make plays that win you games and also a rookie QB that needs to work on the rawness of his mechanics which in time will hopefully improve his accuracy.

 

Both players still have question marks which only time will answer. I'm still very happy the Bills took EJ over Geno.

[Jdragon2]

Most of this fanbase is upper level manic depressive schizophrenic...

 

EJ is awesome...**** Geno did good? The FO is horrible!!!!

 

If EJ isn't better in a year or so well talk...right now? It's far too early. Put the goddamn pitchforks away and be patient for Christs sake

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Keep in context the vast majority here pegged Geno Smith as a bust before he even played his first NFL game. Geno Smith is playing very well. He throws a MUCH more accurate ball down field. Keep in mind Smith has very little weapons on offense, EJ has several.

 

EJ has shown he can't stay healthy and thats a BIG PROBLEM going forward.

Edited October 8, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever

[EasternOHBillsFan]

My brief assessment of EJ and Geno at this point?

 

EJ -- very careful, needs work on his feet, not taking many chances, but shows excellent presence and is a natural leader

 

Geno -- more of a gunslinger, throws a pretty ball, but has zero pocket presence and takes chances

 

Long term I still prefer EJ's qualities, because we know he has the physical tools.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick - very careful, not taking many chances, but shows excellent presence and is a natural leader

 

Jim Kelly - more of a gunslinger, throws a pretty ball, and takes chances

 

Discuss.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Ryan Fitzpatrick - very careful, not taking many chances, but shows excellent presence and is a natural leader

 

Jim Kelly - more of a gunslinger, throws a pretty ball, and takes chances

 

Discuss.

 

So you're saying Fitzy=Manuel and Kelly = Geno

[Jdragon2]

 

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick - very careful, not taking many chances, but shows excellent presence and is a natural leader

 

Jim Kelly - more of a gunslinger, throws a pretty ball, and takes chances

 

Discuss.

 

Incorrect. Fitzpatrick took many chances and was widely known as a gunslinger. He was inaccurate.

 

Point disproven

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Incorrect. Fitzpatrick took many chances and was widely known as a gunslinger. He was inaccurate.

 

That's not true... gunslinger? No. Inaccurate? Yes.

 

Put another garbage Bills QB in there... my point is that Kelly does everything Geno Smith does, and unlike Sanchez, he hit those short routes and ran with purpose. This is turning into a nightmare...

Edited October 8, 2013 by BmoreBills

[Jdragon2]

 

 

That's not true... gunslinger? No. Inaccurate? Yes.

 

Put another garbage Bills QB in there... my point is that Kelly does everything Geno Smith does, and unlike Sanchez, he hit those short routes and ran with purpose. This is turning into a nightmare...

 

Please see my post earlier about the mindset of fans....

 

Fitzpatrick constantly took shots and made throws that most QBs wouldn't, but most of the time was too inaccurate to complete them...hence his tendency to turn the ball over...

 

Geno looked good last night, what did you think of his performance against the titans? When the opposing defense wasnt missing say 5-6 starters?

 

EJs knack for getting injured worries me, otherwise I still like him over Geno

[Wayne Fontes]

Bo Diddley is a gunslinger.

[bigK14094]

Yes. While EJ may be the "high character guy", Geno is a much more natural passer. More instinctive and accurate. While time will certainly tell the story, I think that in the end, Smith will prove that he should have been the guy. And the beat goes on...

Yep, time will tell. I agree, his ball is more naturally thrown. EJ has a nice tight spiral, but the throwing action is somewhat artificial....its actually what they teach, though, at the QB camps....oh well.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Please see my post earlier about the mindset of fans....

 

Fitzpatrick constantly took shots and made throws that most QBs wouldn't, but most of the time was too inaccurate to complete them...hence his tendency to turn the ball over...

 

Geno looked good last night, what did you think of his performance against the titans? When the opposing defense wasnt missing say 5-6 starters?

 

EJs knack for getting injured worries me, otherwise I still like him over Geno

 

My whole point was that Jim Kelly took chances and was that gunslinger, and we haven't had the combination of that and talent (closest was Bledsoe, but he had ZERO pocket presence and was damaged) in years.

 

After being fooled by numerous Bills QBs, I'm all out of "silver lining"... and don't give me this "real fans" crap because I've been a Pirates fan enduring 21 years of far, far worse. Eventually, the team has to PROVE that it was the will and ability to win. It is a damn shame our defense is being run into the ground because our offense looks like Jacksonville.

Edited October 8, 2013 by BmoreBills

[NoSaint]

Geno Smith looks pretty good. There's no denying that. I think almost everyone thought that while he had the most natural talent, the pressure of NYC would crush him. The thing that will make or break him as his career progresses is how he handles a defense that can pressure him in the pocket. If the Jets can give him a very good offensive line then they are set at QB for a long time.

 

As for EJ Manuel, the Bills went with the QB who had waaaay more in the leadership and steadiness department than natural throwing ability. They felt that they can "fine tune" the rawness of his mechanics which in turn will make him a more accurate thrower. So far EJ has been exactly what we thought he'd be, a leader who can make plays that win you games and also a rookie QB that needs to work on the rawness of his mechanics which in time will hopefully improve his accuracy.

 

Both players still have question marks which only time will answer. I'm still very happy the Bills took EJ over Geno.

 

i think thats a pretty fair assessment. for geno, a major difference in his development will be rex on the hot seat. whether decisions are made for genos long term development, or short term gains and additionally whether a new regime would like him are all big variables.

 

we often hear about genos lack of leadership but not things like meeting 1-1 with all the defensive players to take ownership over his mistakes last week. he could grow into the role, he might not. the afce will be interesting to watch the next few years. lots of talent, lots of question marks.

Edited October 8, 2013 by NoSaint

[Jdragon2]

 

 

My whole point was that Jim Kelly took chances and was that gunslinger, and we haven't had the combination of that and talent (closest was Bledsoe, but he had ZERO pocket presence and was damaged) in years.

 

After being fooled by numerous Bills QBs, I'm all out of "silver lining"... and don't give me this "real fans" crap because I've been a Pirates fan enduring 21 years of far, far worse. Eventually, the team has to PROVE that it was the will and ability to win. It is a damn shame our defense is being run into the ground because our offense looks like Jacksonville.

 

Your point about Jacksonville pretty much sums up what I mean....the bills are averaging 22.4 points a game...while Jacksonville is averaging 10.2...there is a gigantic margin of difference.... Not only that but I believe only 6 points in 5 games have been defensive...out of 112

 

You need perspective.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Jdragon2

[T master]

Should they have taken Geno?

 

NO !!! But we shouldn't have taken EJ as high as we did.

Edited October 8, 2013 by T master

[BuffaloBillsForever]

It's actually VERY impressive what Geno Smith is doing considering his only weapon on offense is Holmes and perhaps Hill who are both injured.

 

EJ has a lot more talent around him in Spiller, Jackson, Johnson, Chandler. EJ hasn't looked very good in the passing game, especially on the deep ball and the throws to wide open receivers and tight ends.

Edited October 8, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever