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Posted
1 minute ago, BigDingus said:

And Canada offers a few sizeable markets bigger than plenty of existing teams. 

There is zero chance Saskatoon has a team in a merger scenario. Ditto Hamilton. Ottawa, Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary are all borderline. All of them have metro areas roughly the size of Providence or Milwaukee or less. Vancouver and Toronto would be locks. Montreal would have to be considered iffy just from their history with American sports leagues and public stadium support.  The issue for the borderline cities would be that the NFL would demand new stadiums in each one and the ones in Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Calgary would need to be domes.  The Grey Cup is in late November, the NFL runs into January. No shot the NFL is intentionally going into those markets to play outside in December and January. Are the local and provincial governments ready to kick in 2-3 billion CAD each? Is there a potential owner in any of those places who would be willing to go it alone AFTER paying what will certainly be an exorbitant expansion fee (easily into the multiple billions - each). The cheapest NFL team is about 4 billion dollars according to recent valuations. Why would the league sell anybody a franchise for less than that? They wouldn't. So 4 billion is a minimum, 5 is more likely, plus the stadium on top of it. 25 years ago the Texans cost 700 million in expansion fees when the average team was worth 380 million. Today, the average team is worth 5.5 billion dollars.  Using the same ratio the league applied in 1999, an expansion team would cost 10.2 billion dollars today. That money would all be split 32 ways. For ONE expansion team. That works out to 318ish million per owner, per expansion team.  I also don't see the owners giving out a Groupon discount just because they would be admitting several teams at once. Either pay or piss off.

 

Furthermore, why would the NFL go into those smaller media markets while leaving Mexico City, Monterrey, Guadalajara, San Antonio, Austin, Orlando, San Diego, Portland, Saint Louis and others on the table? It makes no sense. The NFL would rather bankrupt the CFL, take Toronto and Vancouver then add two more teams, one in Mexico City and one someplace in Texas, either San Antonio or Austin.  Jerry will squawk, but will be sated by the 1.275 billion coming to him in fees.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Einstein said:

I found it interesting that the CFL announced many changes today that essentially makes their game more similar to the NFL.

 

Shrunk their field to 100 yards. Moved goalposts to the back of the endzone. Shrunk the endzone to make them closer to NFL size. Changed the play clock from 20 seconds to 35 seconds. etc

 

Conspiracy theory without any evidence: They are getting people ready for full NFL fields and rules when the leagues merge at some point in the next decade.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/the-cfl-will-shrink-its-field-from-110-yards-to-100-among-other-changes

 

I think the word you're looking for is an NFL 'acquisition' of the CFL, not merger. A merger would imply the NFL and CFL are on fairly equal standing.and coming together as one organization. Like the AFL/NFL merger.

 

And that's not even remotely the case. The CFL is filled with players who couldn't get signed to an NFL Practice Squad. So a merger would be ridiculous. It would be like MLB teams playing AA teams.

 

But an NFL acquisition of the CFL wherein they become a sort of version of the old NFL Europe developmental league could be intriguing.

 

Would be especially helpful for Pathway Program players like Travis Clayton or guys like KJ Hamler and Andy Isabella whose NFL opportunities have dried up, but would like to stay in the NFL system in some way.

Edited by BillsFanForever19
Posted
53 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

There is zero chance Saskatoon has a team in a merger scenario. Ditto Hamilton. Ottawa, Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary are all borderline. All of them have metro areas roughly the size of Providence or Milwaukee or less. Vancouver and Toronto would be locks. Montreal would have to be considered iffy just from their history with American sports leagues and public stadium support.  The issue for the borderline cities would be that the NFL would demand new stadiums in each one and the ones in Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Calgary would need to be domes.  The Grey Cup is in late November, the NFL runs into January. No shot the NFL is intentionally going into those markets to play outside in December and January. Are the local and provincial governments ready to kick in 2-3 billion CAD each? Is there a potential owner in any of those places who would be willing to go it alone AFTER paying what will certainly be an exorbitant expansion fee (easily into the multiple billions - each). The cheapest NFL team is about 4 billion dollars according to recent valuations. Why would the league sell anybody a franchise for less than that? They wouldn't. So 4 billion is a minimum, 5 is more likely, plus the stadium on top of it. 25 years ago the Texans cost 700 million in expansion fees when the average team was worth 380 million. Today, the average team is worth 5.5 billion dollars.  Using the same ratio the league applied in 1999, an expansion team would cost 10.2 billion dollars today. That money would all be split 32 ways. For ONE expansion team. That works out to 318ish million per owner, per expansion team.  I also don't see the owners giving out a Groupon discount just because they would be admitting several teams at once. Either pay or piss off.

 

Furthermore, why would the NFL go into those smaller media markets while leaving Mexico City, Monterrey, Guadalajara, San Antonio, Austin, Orlando, San Diego, Portland, Saint Louis and others on the table? It makes no sense. The NFL would rather bankrupt the CFL, take Toronto and Vancouver then add two more teams, one in Mexico City and one someplace in Texas, either San Antonio or Austin.  Jerry will squawk, but will be sated by the 1.275 billion coming to him in fees.

 

I agree with nearly everything you said.

 

Though I don't think the expansion fees will be a hangup if the owners actually WANT to expand. 

 

Because it's probably pretty difficult to gracefully expand by adding 1 or 2 teams. It'd throw off the perfect division alignment they've got setup. But if the intent is to add 8 teams, 1 in each division, they will NEED to make compromises outside the norm.

 

Owners would not require $10+ billion in expansion fees just to get a team off the ground. That would be all but impossible to expect that from 8 new owners. I think they'd compromise by requiring owners to foot the bill (or most of it) for new stadiums at each location, with an agreement to also pay a much smaller expansion fee over an extended period to allow fledgling teams to establish themselves.

 

Again, this scenario is if the majority of owners WANT to expand (which is a big "if"). 

 

I also think they would prioritize Canadian markets over Mexico City, Monterey, Guadalajara, etc (all of them much bigger than the majority of existing NFL markets) because of the current way the US views Mexico as opposed to Canada. Americans view Canada as just a smaller US, while those same people see Mexico as poorer, developing, place where immigrants flee, and just "different." Not saying this is how I view it, only the attitudes towards each country are different in some Americans' minds.

 

Not only that, but we've had NBA, MLB & NHL teams in Canada before. We haven't had NBA, MLB or NHL teams in Mexico (as far as I know). Adding an NFL team there wouldn't seem that much of a stretch in comparison.

 

But yes, I would prefer they pick another location within the US (San Antonio or Austin) than go elsewhere.

Posted (edited)

When I've watched CFL over the years, I have often wondered how much the humongous field devalues the in-person fan experience. Maybe they've done surveys and focus groups and this is something that came from it. I have been to a few NFL and college games where I was stuck in endzone seats and just thinking about being 40 yards further away from the other end...yeesh. And their field is quite a bit wider, so if you are in one corner looking at action taking place in the opposite corner...I'm not even going to try to do the math on it, but we are talking a significant difference. Of course, now they have to retrofit their stadiums and most of the new seating they will gain won't be all that great unless they lower the playing surfaces. It is an interesting decision and I am curious to know whether they will ever explain what went into it.

 

Edit (rather explain than correct): I just read the profootballtalk article and I now understand that the changes won't shrink the field to exactly NFL size, so it won't be a 40 yard difference (I also thought their endzones were 25, not 20). 

Edited by Red Squirrel
mistake made; explained why
Posted
6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

No. It would dilute the product way too much. Not even enough good players as there are, now we are going to add another 400+ players?? 

 

This!  There aren't enough good QBs today for 32 teams

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Posted

Zero chance the nfl wants franchises in Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton, and Ottawa.   Not enough enough wealth to buy in on 9 new teams.  Also, the nfl owners arent going to enjoy splitting the pie with many needy franchises.  Instant devaluation for all.

 

If there is another nfl expansion, it will be big-game hunting.  Toronto, london, I could see san diego or st louis.

 

I think the explanation for these rule changes is simply that the nfl is much more popular in canada, especially with the younger generation. 

 

 

Posted

Ok, you’re thinking outside the box, which is good, but I don’t understand the benefit to the NFL of this premise at all.  The NFL is already more popular than the CFL in Canada.  It is absolutely no threat to the NFL; further, a merger doesn’t help the NFL.  The player pool is too diluted.

 

Perhaps the CFL is making these changes simply for the benefit of players and coaches, so they are playing the same brand of football should they have an opportunity to try out for or be hired by an NFL team.

 

Perhaps they also see that their goofy football hasn’t caught on elsewhere.

 

The only way I see any sort of “merger” between these leagues is if the CFL disbanded and one or two of their teams were incorporated into the NFL (Toronto, Montreal).

 

Posted
1 hour ago, eball said:

Ok, you’re thinking outside the box, which is good, but I don’t understand the benefit to the NFL of this premise at all.  The NFL is already more popular than the CFL in Canada.  It is absolutely no threat to the NFL; further, a merger doesn’t help the NFL.  The player pool is too diluted.

 

Perhaps the CFL is making these changes simply for the benefit of players and coaches, so they are playing the same brand of football should they have an opportunity to try out for or be hired by an NFL team.

 

Perhaps they also see that their goofy football hasn’t caught on elsewhere.

 

The only way I see any sort of “merger” between these leagues is if the CFL disbanded and one or two of their teams were incorporated into the NFL (Toronto, Montreal).

 

 

And it's not like the CFL could sue the NFL since they aren't in the same country (like the AFL did with the NFL that caused the merger to happen).  Considering many times the best CFL players(with some very notable exceptions) can't even make an NFL roster, I don't see why.

Posted

Missing in all these well thought out responses is any mention of the OPs citing that the CFL’s end zones will be changed to be ‘closer’ to the size of the NFL’s. Exactly what size will they be?  Maybe something like 15.6943 yards deep? What does that work out to in meters? 

Posted
9 hours ago, LEBills said:


Doubt the NFL would be interested. Probably more profitable to grant an expansion team to Toronto and Vancouver and collect the associated fees.

 

IMO they are trying to have it look more like American Football so more Americans will want to watch it on TV.

A Toronto team would kill a lot of the Bills fan base I’m assuming ? I’m not sure the amount of Canadian fans the Bills have but I’m assuming it’s a pretty large group. 

Posted
9 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Maybe the CFL becomes an NFL minor league after merging with the spring football league (whatever it is called this year).  

That would be the only way there is anything in the works, the CFL doesn’t make enough to pay a starting QB in the NFL with all of their revenue combined, there is no threat/competative reason for the NFL to care about the CFL. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

A Toronto team would kill a lot of the Bills fan base I’m assuming ? I’m not sure the amount of Canadian fans the Bills have but I’m assuming it’s a pretty large group. 

 

There is a Toronto thread recently where a lot of this is discussed...

 

But in my opinion, no, it wouldn't kill any of the Bills' fanbase.  There are like a trillion people in Toronto.  There is enough to support 2 teams.  The pricing will be a lot, it would be corporate.  In my opinion, most of the southern ontario Bills fans would remain Bills as a counterculture.  Furthermore, I believe a Toronto team would spark excessive interest in the NFL (and there are many cultures there too and new pockets of fans).  There is only so much 1 team can have as capacity for suites and all that.  I could see Buffalo getting run-off from that at cheaper, more accessible prices.  

Posted

Won't ever happen. Maybeee a closer partnership down the road, but the CFL financial is weak in some markets and having issues in traditional strongholds. If there was ever a time it would have been in the 90s when they actually had a few US markets and they actually really penetrated the market here for a bit. My wife's family had a cottage for 50+ years in Ontario until 2022 so I watched a lot of CFL for a good part of a decade plus and still keep some tabs on it. It is entertaining, but like 35% of what the NFL is. The changes absolutely are designed to improve the game play and quality of the game, but financially they are not a very strong league. They have tried to add a team in Nova Scotia for a while and they do not have the finances or population to make it work. Additionally they changes are being criticized by Canadians for being too American at this time so it hasn't been a smooth transition either.

Posted

I have been watching a lot of CFL this year. I like it more than i expected. I actually have been thinking they should merge with that UFL all along. Those leagues are very similar and are hard to take seriously because of the amount of teams. But if you put them together you might have something. I’m surprised there’s no mention of that. Put the 2 other Pro football leagues together, have a north and south division and make it a nice sized league 

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