Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[BigAl2526]

There is no evidence that Codrington will ever have more production as a cornerback than Shenault is capable of as a wide receiver.  As a returner, Shenault has one clear advantage - he seems to be far more likely to gain yards after contact. 

Edited August 10 by BigAl2526

[That's No Moon]

14 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Yeah, his 1v1 tape from the Senior bowl was bad - and it looks just like what happened tonight. Bad footwork, bad leverage, bad football. Hopefully he can pick up some counter moves and a lot better balance while hand fighting. Seems a way off for him though. If he works in the off season as Josh did, he has a chance.

It was bad enough that I was sitting there wondering "will they actually cut a 3rd round pick in year 1?".  Unless the hand of God comes down at some point this month, he does not look like help for this season which is exceptionally frustrating.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Yikes

3rd round pick vs a respectable vet that’s unspectacular?

 

yea, usually an uphill path for the young guy 

[LEBills]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It's pre-season football which means by no popular acclaim whatsoever it's time for the annual tradition like no other..... it's Gunner's Good Night / Bad Night as the New York Football Giants left Orchard Park victorious. By the way... did you know a new stadium is being built? Yea, right across the street apparently. Oh and there was some football happening too. Here is how it went down!

 

Good Night for...

 

Joe Andreessen - This time last year Buffalo Joe just felt like a nice story. Even coming into the spring I thought there was a chance it was a one year deal and he would be off the roster in 2025. But far from that he got the start here alongside Matt Milano in the absence of Terrel Bernard who has been nursing a hamstring injury through camp. Andreessen was typically active including a nice tackle for loss in the second quarter and was calling the defense. He looks pretty settled in as the backup MLB at this stage and the fairy tale looks like continuing into a second year. 

 

Mitch Trubisky - Their stat lines ended up being similar as Mike White rebounded to lead touchdown drives the last two times he took to the field. However, the eye test told you pretty clearly who looked more comfortable running the offense and who threw the more accurate balls. Add to that Trubsiky's mobility allows you to create more ways of generating offense in the worst case scenario where your backup has to play meaningful football. His grip on the backup job just tightened. 

 

Deone Walker - The 4th round rookie was not my favourite pick of the past draft and this was not a perfect debut. My concerns over his pad level and ability to bend remain and I think he gave up leverage a couple of times trying to play the run. But flashed in pass defense, getting a hand on one ball and being a constant disruptive force in the middle of the defensive line. I am not sure he is going to be a high snap count guy as a rookie but I can absolutely see him being used as an impactful situational player because he flashes those traits that are hard to buy at that size.  

 

Tyrell Shavers - Ultimately I still think Shavers' route to a spot on the 53 is narrow. But he has separated throughout camp into a category almost of his own where he is behind the top five guys but clearly ahead of the other receivers. His chances might depend on who wins the returner job, because if Laviska Shenault wins it then there is no chance they keep Shavers as a WR7. But if Shenault does not then them keeping a 6th receiver would appear to tilt towards Shavers making it after two years on the practice squad. I still suspect he is cut (and they try to sneak him onto the PS again) but this might be the toughest cut to make. 

 

Te'Cory Couch - Couch was a player that flashed last pre-season too but this was a really impressive display with two pass breakups, a big tackle in the run game when the Giants were backed up and another excellent coverage rep. I don't see a route to the 53 here for him but if he keeps making plays when he gets his opportunity then the chances of him earning a spot on an active roster elsewhere increases significantly. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

3rd down defense - The Giants were 9 for 19 on third down for 43% - which is exactly where the Bills were in 2024 percentage wise and that was good for 29th in the NFL. At times in the first half it felt even worse than that number suggests. This is a sustained issue now under Bobby Babich's coordinating and he better be feeling the heat to get it fixed. The Bills do not seem able to dictate in any way to the offense on 3rd down. Even when it is 3rd and long. 

 

Zach Davidson - Okay Jackson Hawes, Davidson's competition for TE3, had a bad drop as well but he has ways to make this team without being a big time receiving threat. Davidson doesn't and he had two brutal drops today. You could see his frustration on the field. That felt like a man who knew he was letting his chance pass him by. 

 

Landon Jackson - Let me start with this - Landon Jackson is never going to be a big time quick twitch, bendy edge rusher. That is not how he is going to win. But he looked very stiff and upright today and really struggled when his blockers got the first punch in within a rep. You'd want to see a little more fluidity through the hips and a little better use of the hands. The story at Arkansas was his inconsistency... the Bills have time to bring him along slowly... but it was an inauspicious beginning. 

 

Michael Hoecht - Ugh that was rough. Hoecht will miss the first six weeks of the regular season through a doping ban so you would have wanted to see him go full gas in pre-season. And to an extent he did, but in a really reckless way. He ran himself out of multiple plays, struggled to generate pressure on the Quarterback and left wide open escape lanes for dump offs, screens and QB run plays. The Bills are committed for three years so as soon as he is healthy he will be back in the fold, but he has some work to do. Guys who lose gap discipline and freelance in their rush plan don't tend to end up in Coach McDermott's good books. 

 

Dane Jackson - I think he probably faced an uphill battle to make the roster in any event but Jackson was outplayed by the likes of Dorian Strong and the aforementioned Te'Cory Couch let alone the starter. Wasn't just that he was beat for the long touchdown but he didn't quite seem the same fundamentally sound guy we remember from his first spell in Buffalo. I doubt this is the final good bye as I imagine sneaking him to one of the six practice squad spots saved for vets will be relatively achievable but he did not help his cause today.

 

 

Flame away folks, there will be another of these next week!

Chase Lundt was impressive to me today too. You can tell he has stubby arms but he took it to the DEs all day to negate that. His athleticism on the pulls was great too, thought he was the best of the second stringers.

 

I was very disappointed in Hoecht. It felt like watching Von with how he outran his gaps and when he was actually there to make a play, he missed tackles. Let’s hope he is used creatively like the Rams did bc that was not pretty. As for LJ, it was disappointing as well. He struggled. He took a couple years to improve in college, so this may be a player who is quiet this year and makes more plays in year 2 and 3. 

 

I really have a tough time imagining Shavers on the 53. I’d say there is at least 2 QBs, 4 RBs, 9 OL, 5 WRs, 2 TEs, 9 DL, 5 LB, 9 DBs and 4 specialists or 49 locks. Likely we keep a 10th DL so we don’t cut Carter or Soloman and likely we keep Hawes as the third tight end.
 

So I think it would come down to them keeping a 10th DB (Dane or Strong), a 10th OL (SVPG, Lundt or Green), a 6th linebacker, or a 6th WR. I think OL and DB will get 10 spots. Maybe they only keep 5 LBs but I’d be pretty surprised with how oft injured that group is. So barring an injury to a lock in one of the position groups, I think Shavers would have to beat out Elijah Moore to make the 53. Shavers may be more deserving of a roster spot, but the Bills may think he would be easier and cheaper to get on the Practice Squad than Moore and his guaranteed contract. Then you can just call him up if you really need him until his eligibility is used up.

[Scott7975]

I went into watching the game with two concerns... injuries and 3rd down defense. Other than a scare with Taron Johnson I think we were free of injury so thats a plus. However, 3rd down defense remains as horrible as it was all last season. Im still hugely concerned with this defense. Considering the investment put into this season, I shouldn't be. Bosa looked great though. Hope he can stay healthy.

[NickelCity]

I think Shavers is out 54th player...and we're going to IR designated to return someone.

[Sierra Foothills]

23 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

There is no evidence that Codrington will ever have more production as a cornerback than Shenault is capable of as a wide receiver.  As a returner, Shenault has one clear advantage - he seems to be far mor likely to gain yards after contact. 

 

You're right that there's no evidence that Codrington will ever have more production as a cornerback than Shenault as a receiver but Shenault was never a punt returner in the NFL or in college whereas Codrington was among the NFL leaders last year.

 

So Shenault has to prove he can handle those responsibilities in order to win that competition.

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

I am not a fan as I have stated many times of the defensive free agent class.  I am of the opinion that it was really bad and Beane blew it.

 

Today didn’t make me feel any different.  Ogunjobi, hoecht, Forrest all looked pretty pedestrian at best.  I don’t care how bosa played today because I know who he is as a player.

 

If they missed on Jackson and Hairston is on ir to start the season this defense is going to cost this team a bunch of games.  That is just to many misses in one offseason on the defensive side of the ball when they are in desperate need for difference makers.

 

Hopefully sanders, walker, Hancock and strong can help and improve each week.  

No mention of Bosa, Sanders and Walker.  Not surprised.  Care to elaborate on what you saw from them?

[MikePJ76]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No mention of Bosa, Sanders and Walker.  Not surprised.  Care to elaborate on what you saw from them?

I literally said I know what bosa is.  We all do.  
 

and I also said hopefully walker, sanders, Hancock and strong continue to improve so they can help.

 

I liked seeing Hancock today.  He looked like he belonged and seemed in position over and over.  Walker is going to have a big role in pass rush situations.  They are going to scheme his abilities into some big plays.  Sanders looks like he belonged every snap.  
 

preseason is about man to to man or one on one football, going out there and beating the guy in front of you without a plan other than being a better athlete.  My hope for the day was that a number of these guys would look like they belong.  IMO some did and some didn’t.   
 

I think ogunjobi, hoecht and Forrest were bad signings and they looked pretty pedestrian on the field today.   When the real games start and they are given a role or if they are I am sure they will scheme them into what they do best.   Today, I didn’t see any of those guys do anything that showed they have the ability to make plays that will help the team and demand they get snaps.  The rookies I mentioned imo did, they look like guys who will help.

 

and as far as bosa goes I believe he is a declining player with major injury concerns who commits a lot of penalties.  I don’t expect much from him.   I don’t like the free agent class on defense and have not from day one.  
 

I hope I am wrong because if I am not this team is going to end up around 11-6 and the 3 or 4 seed meaning they have to go to KC and Baltimore each just to get to the Super Bowl.  

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

That's so funny you were down on Michael Hoecht because Joe Marino raved about him and said he was excellent in run defense, had a great get off, and was the most effective pass rusher.

I like Joe, but he also has some weird takes sometimes. The man was a Tremaine Edmunds disciple lol

[uticaclub]

37 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I like Joe, but he also has some weird takes sometimes. The man was a Tremaine Edmunds disciple lol

One is an UDFA, the other was a 1st round draft pick that didn't get a 2nd contract

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Didn't watch the game but by all descriptions so far Jackson is AJE 2.0.

 

Any other GM in the league and this board would go nuts if they signed one let alone two PED guys. If the rookies can do anything hope they both get cut before they come off suspension. 

What do you drink before you post?

[MJS]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

I like Joe, but he also has some weird takes sometimes. The man was a Tremaine Edmunds disciple lol

I trust him a lot more than anyone here. He puts in the work. And his takes tend to match up with what I see as well, although I know a lot less than he does about schemes and technique, etc.

[BillytheKid]

18 minutes ago, MJS said:

I trust him a lot more than anyone here. He puts in the work. And his takes tend to match up with what I see as well, although I know a lot less than he does about schemes and technique, etc.

The thing is both of the other two guys on that show with Joe today, Jeremy and Jerry both thought Hoecht looked really great today as well. So that’s 3 of them.

 

I won’t comment on it since I saw some of the game but not all of it and didn’t catch a lot of what he did. 
 

Seems to be a big difference of opinion though. 

[Herb]

We all know it's only preseason, but it seems that no matter how much we draft and sign veterans on defense, we still somehow struggle with 3rd down opponent efficiency in the most crucial points of the game. I suppose Josh will have to be Josh yet again.

[Herb]

It only bothered me as much as it did because this was the last preseason performance in the old stadium. You'd have thought that the coaching staff would have appreciated that more by being aggressive early.

[Rocky Landing]

I suspect that Chris Tabor is going to have a fair amount of influence on the bottom end of this roster. And with the new kickoff rules, that might include getting to choose who he wants as P/KR. Judging by today's performances only, Shanault really looked like the best option, so far. 

 

Regarding the #3 TE competition, it really didn't look like either Davidson, or Hawes had a particularly good showing as tight ends. But Davidson did have at least one good play on special teams. I wouldn't put Hawes ahead of him just yet.

 

I would also put Hancock down for having a decent rookie showing for his first game.

[eball]

Maybe I’m naive, but it feels odd to me to complain about 3rd down defense when there is no scheming going on. They are literally just playing a base defense to watch what guys do. 
 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, LEBills said:

Chase Lundt was impressive to me today too. You can tell he has stubby arms but he took it to the DEs all day to negate that. His athleticism on the pulls was great too, thought he was the best of the second stringers.

 

Really encouraging on Chase. Just because of how I was watching yesterday I didn't get the chance to really focus in on the OL. That needs my 100% concentration, but I have heard a few folks say he played well. 

 

I really struggle to imagine the Bills cutting him loose.

[Not at the table Karlos]

9 hours ago, ALLinALLEN said:

I saw a Bills "Podcaster" on Twitter say arrow down on Dion Dawkins today so yes this list is 1000000x better

Dawkins was abused by Carter. He earned an “arrow down” 

8 hours ago, Process said:

Crazy to make this conclusion after one preseason game

There’s also been a couple weeks of training camp where he hasn’t shown much of anything.