McDermott Growth/Expectations

[JerseyBills]

 

 

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

I know you say that but if the Bills lost a nailbiter to KC again in the playoffs, I think they are 100% safe. There is no bust in the equation imo.

oh yea , i completely agree,  i guess I was really talking my expectations for this team. 

I think they’re a SB winner or the year is a failure. 

 

I don't see many scenarios where McBeane isn't safe going into 2025, maybe if they're just awful , under 7 wins but I still think they're safe, 2nd best reord out of 32 teams since 2020 tends to do that

Edited May 21 by JerseyBills

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

To respond to your post, I personally think the only way we win a SB with McD/Beane is to just not face KC in the postseason.

 

Probably a crappy way to look at it, but it reminds me of the Cavs/Raptors in the NBA a few years back. Lebron just destroyed them. Every year. They could have a great regular season, be the #1 seed and they had lost the mental battle before the first whistle blew.

 

I think McD and the Bills in general (outside of Allen) are there.

 

I'm not ready to put the Bengals in that rarefied air. But I get why you are.

 

Yea me too. My comp is Roger Federer at the French Open. All he needed to win one was someone else to beat Nadal because while he had beat him on clay at other tournaments he couldn't get past him at the French. Then the year Soderling beat Nadal, Roger got his title. 

Edited May 21 by GunnerBill

[Buffalo Boy]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Could have had Belichick and Landry coordinating the D that night. Wouldn't have mattered.

   This it the antithetical sub thread to McD vs Jauron. 
   Hard disagree. 

[Gregg]

10 hours ago, McBean said:

For all he’s done for this organization like breaking the drought and winning 4 consecutive AFC east titles, he can coach here forever for all I care. 
 

I don’t have to see anything. He’s shown us greatness for far too long.
 

Forever Sean. 

 

What greatness?

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

McDermott is going into his 7th season as the Bills head coach. His staff beneath him has turned over with a new DC and it’s Brady’s first full season as OC. The schedule is loaded and the AFCE has improved.

 

Curious what your expectations are of McDermott? What areas do you hope/expect he improves at?

 

McDermott has been a solid coach with lots of positives but far too often stumbles a few times per season against a lesser team, struggles to make in game adjustments and come the playoffs, he gets outcoached in key games and his team has failed to execute at critical moments. Overall, he has a losing record in the playoffs at 5-6.

 

 

Must we do these same not very subtle anti-McDermott threads so very regularly?

 

It's the exact same crap every time. No new ideas to start conversation or stimulate thought whatsoever. Profession of curiousness. Then a very negative "summing up" which involves about eight or ten words that are positive with zero specifics and five or ten times that number of space on negatives.

 

We get it. You don't like the guy. That's fine, it's your prerogative. Must we be subject to the exact same thing so consistently?

 

 

Edited May 21 by Thurman#1

[Logic]

11 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

What do you think mcDermott would be without Josh Allen? What if we took “The right Josh” 

I have no more way of knowing what McDermott would be without Josh than you do. It's almost a meaningless question, because it didn't happen and we'll never know.

Actually, that's not entirely true. McDermott had one season without Josh Allen. He took a team in the very first year of a from-the-ground-up rebuild to a winning record and a playoff berth. 

Jauron had one winning season out of TEN as a head coach. He made the playoffs ONCE out of TEN tries.

Josh Allen-less McDermott, meanwhile, made the playoffs in his lone Allen-less season. One for one.

Besides, as I responded to another poster: Having a great QB does not equal automatic playoffs. Justin Herbert doesn't make the playoffs every year. Philip Rivers made the playoffs 7 out of 16 seasons. It takes good coaching, too. 

I'm sorry, but I think automatically attributing all Bills success to Josh Allen and pretending the coach doesn't have anything to do with it is dumb. I think the "without Josh, McDermott would be Jauron" argument is dumb. He's not Curly Lambeau or Don Shula, but he's a good NFL head coach. The proof is in the pudding. You don't have six winning seasons out of seven and the winning percentage he does without being a good coach. It's nonsense.

Edited May 21 by Logic

[JGMcD2]

41 minutes ago, Logic said:

I have no more way of knowing what McDermott would be without Josh than you do. It's almost a meaningless question, because it didn't happen and we'll never know.

Actually, that's not entirely true. McDermott had one season without Josh Allen. He took a team in the very first year of a from-the-ground-up rebuild to a winning record and a playoff berth. 

Jauron had one winning season out of TEN as a head coach. He made the playoffs ONCE out of TEN tries.

Josh Allen-less McDermott, meanwhile, made the playoffs in his lone Allen-less season. One for one.

Besides, as I responded to another poster: Having a great QB does not equal automatic playoffs. Justin Herbert doesn't make the playoffs every year. Philip Rivers made the playoffs 7 out of 16 seasons. It takes good coaching, too. 

I'm sorry, but I think automatically attributing all Bills success to Josh Allen and pretending the coach doesn't have anything to do with it is dumb. I think the "without Josh, McDermott would be Jauron" argument is dumb. He's not Curly Lambeau or Don Shula, but he's a good NFL head coach. The proof is in the pudding. You don't have six winning seasons out of seven and the winning percentage he does without being a good coach. It's nonsense.

One thing that remains funny to me is how often people on this board paint McDermott as a control freak, while simultaneously giving him no credit for having a massive say in the selection and development plan of our "Parody of a QB Prospect" Joshua Patrick Allen. 

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Must we do these same not very subtle anti-McDermott threads so very regularly?

 

It's the exact same crap every time. No new ideas to start conversation or stimulate thought whatsoever. Profession of curiousness. Then a very negative "summing up" which involves about eight or ten words that are positive with zero specifics and five or ten times that number of space on negatives.

 

We get it. You don't like the guy. That's fine, it's your prerogative. Must we be subject to the exact same thing so consistently?

 

 

This is why I don't even bother to engage with these posters anymore. 

[bmur66]

I expect him to be a better and more focused head coach now that Bobby Babich is the DC and will handle that side of the ball on game day.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:34 AM, mrags said:

He will continue to make stupid mistakes and hope his superstar QB can minimize his F-ups. There will be at least 2 times this season where he will make the same mistakes he has in the past and we will be wondering wtf, how has this idiot not learned his lessons from the last. 

So true...I keep being told by the McDermott supporters to be patient and wait for Sean to have his Andy Ried moment. And maybe someday he does?  I keep being reminded that before McDermott we were 17 years of awful. There's absolutely no denying Sean's top tier character and ability to bond with his players.  But his players aren't stupid and they can see the game day flaws with their own eyes.  As we can as fans.  This franchise will be forever grateful to Sean & Brandon for having the courage to take a chance on a prospect from Wyoming. But once it was confirmed he was a superstar (2020), they turned their attention toward Defense. That imho will historically be one of their biggest flaws. Even this crazy wr heavy draft, we pick one guy?  It just made no sense after losing your top 2 wrs.  At this point, "Josh's growth" will factor more into a possible championship than Sean's will. Josh will have to rise above and be Superman every week. While we pray our defense can a) stay healthy and b) make one critical stop in the playoffs. 

[RyanC883]

On 5/20/2024 at 10:44 AM, Logic said:

I was calling for McDermott's head midway through last season.

From the point at which the Dunne article was published onward, I thought he actually showed a lot of improvement. His calls got gutsier. He showed more trust in both his offense and his defense.

There were times when he got so bold in his decision making -- particularly going for it on 4th down on the Bills' own side of the field -- that even I was like "now wait a second coach...".

I'll give McDermott this: I feel he has shown consistent improvement from the time he became head coach of the Buffalo Bills until now. It's gotten to the point where the Bills are routinely at the top of the "how often teams go for it on 4th down when they should" lists, neutral situation passing rate lists, and a bunch of other things that analytics tell us add up to generally good decision making.

I would argue that his coaching in the playoff hasn't improved at the same rate that his regular season coaching has improved. I do still think he tightens up in the biggest moments, and it costs the Bills football games. Think of the fake punt in the Chiefs game, or the way the Bills handled the end of the game coming out of the two minute warning. 

If he can just figure out how to loosen up and fix his playoff foibles the way he's fixed his regular season foibles, then I think he can have an Andy Reid like second act of his career. People forget that Reid used to be routinely pilloried for his bad decision making and playoff failures -- until he wasn't. 

All in all, I expect McDermott to continue to be a better than average regular season coach who routinely gets his teams 10+ wins and a playoff ticket. It's his performance in the "second season" that needs to improve if the Bills are to ever win a title.

 

Great points.  What worries me about the McD may become like Reid argument is that Reid needed a change of scenery, another MVP QB in Mahomes and a GOAT TE in Kelse, and McD on the other side (13 seconds, last year), to win as much as he has.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Great points.  What worries me about the McD may become like Reid argument is that Reid needed a change of scenery, another MVP QB in Mahomes and a GOAT TE in Kelse, and McD on the other side (13 seconds, last year), to win as much as he has.  

 

 

what should worry you about the mcdermott may become reid argument (aside from the litany of logical fallacies and statistical inconsistencies) is all the people making it are looking at it from McDermott's side and not the Bills'

 

reid didn't win anything in Philadelphia

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

what should worry you about the mcdermott may become reid argument (aside from the litany of logical fallacies and statistical inconsistencies) is all the people making it are looking at it from McDermott's side and not the Bills'

 

reid didn't win anything in Philadelphia

Not only that, but Philly won a Super Bowl way quicker.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Not only that, but Philly won a Super Bowl way quicker.

correct

[mrags]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So true...I keep being told by the McDermott supporters to be patient and wait for Sean to have his Andy Ried moment. And maybe someday he does?  I keep being reminded that before McDermott we were 17 years of awful. There's absolutely no denying Sean's top tier character and ability to bond with his players.  But his players aren't stupid and they can see the game day flaws with their own eyes.  As we can as fans.  This franchise will be forever grateful to Sean & Brandon for having the courage to take a chance on a prospect from Wyoming. But once it was confirmed he was a superstar (2020), they turned their attention toward Defense. That imho will historically be one of their biggest flaws. Even this crazy wr heavy draft, we pick one guy?  It just made no sense after losing your top 2 wrs.  At this point, "Josh's growth" will factor more into a possible championship than Sean's will. Josh will have to rise above and be Superman every week. While we pray our defense can a) stay healthy and b) make one critical stop in the playoffs. 

Exactly where I’m at LABB. 
 

things that really stick out to me from what you said

 

are the fact that people comparing McDermott to Reid. It’s funny that Allen is at the very least on a similar playing field to Mahomes. It took Mahomes for Reid to get it done. Compared to McDermott, even with Allen, he still can’t get it done. 
 

His players absolutely aren’t stupid. Yes I’m sure they respect him in many ways. But let’s be real, do we really think some of these older vets really fall for his corny crap? Diggs site didn’t. And that’s likely why he’s not here anymore. Or at least one of the reasons. 
 

yes we can be grateful for McDermott for getting us from the cellar to the playoffs every year. Great. But we need a guy that can get us to the SB now. And it appears he tops out every year in the playoffs. Imo because of his conservative approach once playoff football comes around.

the fact that we have Allen and in his prime and they aren’t supporting him is incredible to me. Like you said, in a draft that was known for all the WR talent and we only came away with one guy despite needing 3-4 guys is amazing to me. And it’s not like they can get away with saying they were all set where they were firing the draft because right after the draft they went out and signed Cephus, MVS, and Claypool. 
 

Allen’s growth, as well as repport with his receivers is absolutely what’s going to take this team to the next level. I mean, unless we want to bank on LUCK that nobody gets hurt on D all the sudden. Or his defense gets lucky not giving up big plays at inopportune moments. 
 

yes, I firmly believe the only way this coaching staff ever wins a SB is if Allen goes full Nuclear God Mode in the playoffs. Exceeding all the possible blunders that McDermott might have ruining chances. 

 

[Mikey152]

5 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

One thing that remains funny to me is how often people on this board paint McDermott as a control freak, while simultaneously giving him no credit for having a massive say in the selection and development plan of our "Parody of a QB Prospect" Joshua Patrick Allen. 

Or the offense we played with Josh as the QB.

 

"McDermott is a control freak" and "Mcdermott loves ball control"

 

And yet, under his tenure they pass a ton and have had a top offense. So either he isn't in control, or he isn't a strict ball control coach. 

[BullBuchanan]

On 5/20/2024 at 12:39 PM, BullBuchanan said:

Your career win percentage stats are completely irrelevant, because the overwhelming majority of McD's stats are with Josh Allen at the Helm. He has one full season and another 5 games that he played without Josh Allen. He was 10-11 over that span with one playoff appearance that was a loss. Obviously it's not a horrible percentage, but it's highly volatile with numbers that small. A couple games in either direction have massive percentage point swings.

What makes McDermott like Jauron is his general philosophy that high level execution is the most important factor in winning football games, while at the same time being unable to get his team to execute at a high level with consistency. The difference is that talent, namely Allen, has won this team a ton of football games even when they aren't executing. Jauron didn't have that luxury. I think when you look at our various defensive collapses over McDermott's tenure, where Allen is not able to bail him out, or you look at our penalties against, you can see evidence of our team not doing the one thing that's supposed to be McDermott's forte. Couple that with his poor time management and poor challenge judgement (admittedly less important) and I just don't see a coach who executes at a high level when that's supossed to be his thing.

Of course, many coaches like Belichick, Shanahan, Reid, have all had teams with very high levels of execution over the years, especially Belichick, but each of those coaches also bring a tremendous knowledge of the game paired with a strategic vision and tactical plan that put their team in the best position to win possible.

 

21 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

LOL at hail mary defense.  Do you have any idea how many hail mary's almost connect but don't every week?  There's a reason why its the lowest % play in football.  Its always so close yet so far.  And it was pretty well defended in Arizona.  How many more guys do you want around the ball? Perhaps McD should have coached Hyde or Tre to be taller.  

 

I am really struggling to see how any of this relates to your McD = Jauron argument.  Looks like you have abandoned that (if so, smart) but lets not pretend that this discussion started over my impassioned defense of McD.

 

Jauron was the most conservative coach the franchise has seen and played every game not to lose.  McD leads the league in going for it on fourth down.  Jauron regularly punted the ball away from inside the 50.  He was the least inspiring person to ever walk into OBD.  If you still think McD=Jauron then we can add it your growing list of spicy takes.

Hope this helps.

[Kwai San]

On 5/20/2024 at 11:28 AM, PBF81 said:

Nearly half of Allen's passing TDs and yardage are gone.  It's easy to suggest that someone will replace that, it's another thing to do it.  For years we were crying about a #1 WR, got Diggs, who according to everyone made a difference, now we're expected to believe that it doesn't matter again.  LOL 
 

 

Well sir I direct you to the last 8 weeks of the season where Diggs disappeared and the Bills ran an impressive wining streak with MINIMAL input from Diggs.  I am sure thats already been brought up here however.  If so I am piling on....if not.  Please refer to the second half of the 2023 season Diggs.  In all honesty Diggs is being replaced by Kincaid more than anyone else.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 minute ago, Kwai San said:

 

Well sir I direct you to the last 8 weeks of the season where Diggs disappeared and the Bills ran an impressive wining streak with MINIMAL input from Diggs.  I am sure thats already been brought up here however.  If so I am piling on....if not.  Please refer to the second half of the 2023 season Diggs.  In all honesty Diggs is being replaced by Kincaid more than anyone else.

This is absolutely correct. Josh could very well quickly develop a rapport with Coleman,  Samuel and Hollins/Claypool. Figure Kincaid will assume the #1 receiver role. But there's still alot of unknowns. Shakir's role will be imperative to our success this season. We clearly proved we can win without 14.

[PBF81]

On 5/20/2024 at 10:34 AM, Breakout Squad said:

Most of my friends hate McD. I gently remind them of 17 years of futility that has been replaced by expectations of winning every year 🤷

 

Acceptance. 

 

That's the 5th and final stage of the Five Stages of Grief.  

 

 

 

Edited May 21 by PBF81