ControllerOfPlanetX Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said: that whole athletic mock draft was kind of unrealistic. If they do anything like this for a WR he had better be among the leagues top wr in year one. Agree…he would need to be Justin Jefferson right out of the box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Just now, GoBills808 said: Lol how does giving up the game sealing drive give you a chance to win my larger point if that the Offense had 3 chances to win the game and choked 3 times. The D made a couple stops when it mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 minutes ago, Pete said: my larger point if that the Offense had 3 chances to win the game and choked 3 times. The D made a couple stops when it mattered. My point is you point is incorrect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 6 minutes ago, Pete said: KC-Bills D gave O 3 chances to win 12:53BUF 320:44231Fumble 10:45KC 432:2258Punt 1:43KC 341:4358Game Bills offense 0-3 14:20BUF 251:2747Downs 12:09BUF 201:243-2Punt 8:23BUF 206:401654FG Miss 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I'm barging in here and not even sure about the details you guys have been talking about, but this point about Kelce is something I've been thinking about lately. Yes, it's true that Kelce is super special, but I think it's important to recognize that he doesn't succeed with physical dominance. He doesn't have great speed, he isn't a great run after catch guy - he isn't extraordinary at breaking tackles. His RAC comes from being wide open. I'm not sure I'd call Kelce a game changer, altho I won't argue that point. What he is is an excellent scheme fit. Kelce is an excellent tight end with good hands and brains, playing in great scheme with a QB who can execute the scheme. The important point for this discussion is brains, scheme, and a QB who executes is what makes a great passing game in the current NFL. I think, in fact, that receivers are becoming a dime a dozen, just like running backs. Successful teams don't need a top-five running back, and I think the passing game already has evolved to the point that they don't need a top-five receiver. I mean, they'll have a guy who is top-five in the stats, but he'll get there by being a scheme fit rather than being a great receiver. I think that's exactly what we've seen in Kansas City. And it's what we've seen in LA and Detroit and SF. The Bills need a wideout, for sure. But I no longer think it's important to have the stud you might find in the top of the draft. There are a lot guys who can become part of an excellent passing attack in Buffalo, probably a half-dozen in the draft, and guys who will be available in September. Thank you and spot on! If they feel Franklin is the right guy forJosh and this system, then so be it. Stay at 28, get him and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 5 minutes ago, julian said: That’s so ***** bad. Damn near impossible to win when your D is that bad. For a guy that says “we gotta win the turnover battle” every time Josh throws an INT, his D sure the ***** ain’t making that easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 minute ago, BananaB said: That’s so ***** bad. Damn near impossible to win when your D is that bad. For a guy that says “we gotta win the turnover battle” every time Josh throws an INT, his D sure the ***** ain’t making that easy. Throw some more money and high picks at it. I'm sure it'll be different this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 11 minutes ago, julian said: Then forget trying to spend more on defense and go load up on talent Edited April 24 by Roundybout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 8 minutes ago, Pete said: KC-Bills D gave O 3 chances to win 12:53BUF 320:44231Fumble 10:45KC 432:2258Punt 1:43KC 341:4358Game Bills offense 0-3 14:20BUF 251:2747Downs 12:09BUF 201:243-2Punt 8:23BUF 206:401654FG Miss The defense got lucky one time, on the Hardman fumble which was at the goal line. If they score there, it would have iced the game. It was a mistske by Hardman and the ball actuallybounced in our favor for once. We forced a single punt. We couldn't stop them on their last possession as they simply ran out the clock. The defense sucked that game and generally couldn't stop a nose bleed. The only reason it was close is because we had a 14 minute edge in time of possession. Everything we did was methodical. Diggs whiffs on a bomb, defender pushes Dawkins into Josh's legs, and Bass misses a kick. Story of the Bills. But the defense didn't save us by any means. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: I'm barging in here and not even sure about the details you guys have been talking about, but this point about Kelce is something I've been thinking about lately. Yes, it's true that Kelce is super special, but I think it's important to recognize that he doesn't succeed with physical dominance. He doesn't have great speed, he isn't a great run after catch guy - he isn't extraordinary at breaking tackles. His RAC comes from being wide open. I'm not sure I'd call Kelce a game changer, altho I won't argue that point. What he is is an excellent scheme fit. Kelce is an excellent tight end with good hands and brains, playing in great scheme with a QB who can execute the scheme. The important point for this discussion is brains, scheme, and a QB who executes is what makes a great passing game in the current NFL. I think, in fact, that receivers are becoming a dime a dozen, just like running backs. Successful teams don't need a top-five running back, and I think the passing game already has evolved to the point that they don't need a top-five receiver. I mean, they'll have a guy who is top-five in the stats, but he'll get there by being a scheme fit rather than being a great receiver. I think that's exactly what we've seen in Kansas City. And it's what we've seen in LA and Detroit and SF. You've been banging that "WR don't really matter, teams don't need a top 5 WR, receivers are a dime a dozen" drum in several threads now. Counterpoint: I don't know about "top 5 WR" that seems arbitrary. But here's some evidence about how the teams you cite think about that "they'll have a guy who's top 5 in the stats but he'll get there by being a scheme fit rather than a great receiver" philosophy. TL;DR they're voting with their $$ on that. 1) Detroit just signed their #1, 119 reception, 1515 yd wide receiver Amon Ra St Brown to a 4 year, $120M contract with $77M guaranteed. Why would they do that, if receivers are becoming a dime a dozen and successful teams don't need a top WR, just a "scheme fit"? 2) I don't think Deebo Samuel was signed to a 3 year , $71,550,000 contract with the San Francisco 49ers, including $24,035,000 signing bonus, $58,100,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $23,850,000 because the '49ers thought he was "just a scheme fit" where WR are a "dime a dozen" And Christian McCaffrey's a unicorn - part receiver, part running back, and 100% perfect for the Niners, but that team didn't trade away the core of their 2023 draft board (2nd, 3rd, 4th plus 2024 5th), but either way, SF didn't give up that much with the right to pay him $14M this season on top of it because they thought Christian McCaffery was a "dime a dozen" as either a receiver or an RB 3) LA Rams signed Kupp to a 3 year, $80M extension in 2022 of which $75M were guaranteed because they view WR as a "dime a dozen" after his 145 reception, 1947 yd season. They appear to have lucked out with Puka Nacua, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that league-wide talent evaluators weren't saying "see, any old WR could succeed in that system" (if that were true, what stopped 2nd round pick Van Jefferson? What stopped 2nd round pick Tutu Atwell? It's a nice hypothesis but it doesn't seem to stack up against how the teams you mentioned are actually spending their $$. Edited April 24 by Beck Water 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No imo There's a lot more to getting a second contract from the team that drafted you than whether you performed well or not I agree. For a 4th round pick, I’d say Gabe Davis generally was worth that pick or better, for the four years he was with us. But when time was up, another team was able and willing to pay him more for his services than the Bills. WRs are getting paid big-time in the league right now. Plus, it’s also possible more WRs are out of the league after a few years than OL, given speed is a bigger part of a WR’s game while things like strength are bigger part of an O-lineman’s game. This would mean teams should be drafting WRs more regularly, and not necessarily re-signing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 9 minutes ago, Brandon said: Throw some more money and high picks at it. I'm sure it'll be different this time. High D draft picks by this regime struggle to crack McDs starting lineup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Just now, BananaB said: High D draft picks by this regime struggle to crack McDs starting lineup That’s because he rotates everyone like hockey lines. He’s an idiot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 6 minutes ago, H2o said: The defense got lucky one time, on the Hardman fumble which was at the goal line. If they score there, it would have iced the game. It was a mistske by Hardman and the ball actuallybounced in our favor for once. We forced a single punt. We couldn't stop them on their last possession as they simply ran out the clock. The defense sucked that game and generally couldn't stop a nose bleed. The only reason it was close is because we had a 14 minute edge in time of possession. Everything we did was methodical. Diggs whiffs on a bomb, defender pushes Dawkins into Josh's legs, and Bass misses a kick. Story of the Bills. But the defense didn't save us by any means. Almost 8 yards per play vs just over 4 yards per play. Not really very close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 39 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said: that whole athletic mock draft was kind of unrealistic. If they do anything like this for a WR he had better be among the leagues top wr in year one. Agreed on both points. In 2018, I will say this, though: Buscaglia called the Bills drafting Josh Allen, although he called them as trading up to #5 with Denver vs #7, and giving up 2019 1st rounder as well as 2018 2nd round, and drafting Allen #5. And we have heard from Beane that they had a tentative deal fleshed out with Denver which Denver backed out of because "their guy" was on the board. The thing is, when the Bills traded up in 2018 you could read the tea leaves that they were "QB or Bust". Dealing Cordy Glenn to trade up in the 1st round, etc. Where we are, wanting a team to trade all the way back to #28, is a hard sell, whatever Beane might or might not like to do. PS on the other hand, in 2018 Charlie Campbell had the Bills trading up to #7 and drafting a safety, Derwin James. Nothing against James, he's a fine safety but for the draft resources Edited April 24 by Beck Water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 37 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: If you could trade for any receiver in the league now, would you trade what it takes to get Odunze or higher? Part of the appeal of Odunze is the rookie contract with a fifth-year option. The price folks are throwing out there to acquire him is plausibly accurate. It's a little rich for my taste. I'd rather hold onto 60 since we were Goodelled out of a 3rd rounder. A trade for the best established WR includes a hefty contract, or the need for one to retain the fella. So I wouldn't pay as much as I would for Odunze, even if you argue the established WR is a known commodity and Odunze involves some risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 👀👀👀👀👀 I agree! His twitchtness is unbelievable, phenomenal hands and route running. A TD maker as Beane likes to say and as I said, he's so twitchy making life miserable for DBs.. Some insight into why they moved on from Diggs imo. 1 1 1 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Just now, JerseyBills said: 👀👀👀👀👀 I agree! His twitchtness is unbelievable, phenomenal hands and route running. A TD maker as Beane likes to say and as I said, he's so twitchy making life miserable for DBs.. Some insight into why they moved on from Diggs imo. It’s not real. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: 👀👀👀👀👀 I agree! His twitchtness is unbelievable, phenomenal hands and route running. A TD maker as Beane likes to say and as I said, he's so twitchy making life miserable for DBs.. Some insight into why they moved on from Diggs imo. Fail. NOT the real Adam S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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