Are we really going to miss any of the departed players?

[stuvian]

I just checked in with Rex Ryan and the offseason is apparently not over yet

 

[Meatloaf63]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

The sports "Media" is already beginning their "analysis" that the Bills are done in 2024.  The Athletic (a NYT company) has an article today by the Jets beat writer about how the Jets have the most talented roster in the AFC East (their 80 year old QB not withstanding) and we all know how objective the NYT is.

 

https://theathletic.com/5388899/2024/04/04/jets-best-afc-east-roster-diggs-trade/

 

How much are we really going to miss any of the players released, traded or not re-signed this off-season?

 

Wide Receivers

Let's start with the elephant in the room.  The Bills moved on from both veteran boundary receivers including "superstar" Stefon Diggs.  Those two accounted for 2349 receiving yards last season and 15 TDs.  However, Davis caught only 56% of his targets and after week 6 Diggs caught only 61% of his opportunities.  In fact, Diggs, after week 6, was on pace to only put up 830 yards (on 145 targets) in a full season.  That would have put him 25 in NFL.  He also was clearly no longer a fit in a Joe Brady offense. 

 

On the other hand Kincaid and Shakir flourished after week 6.  Kincaid was inactive in week 6, but over the next 13 weeks (including the playoffs) his usage increased and he paced for 860 yards over a 17 week season.  His usage in his second season should increase further with Diggs gone.  Shakir's game also changed after week 6.  In the first 6 weeks last season, Shakir averaged less than 1 target per game.  1 target!  After week six, Shakir was on pace for 845 yards (on only 68 targets).  

 

I also researched how the average WR drafted from 20-40 over the last 5 years produced in his rookie season.  The average was about 660 yards.  There were some stars like Jefferson, Tee Higgins, and Jordan Addison and some duds, but for the most part most were solid to good.  I'm confident that Beane & Co will find someone in the draft to help the Bills stretch the field with their 1st pick, something we didn't have last season.

 

In addition we added proven slot receiver Curtis Samuel who should flourish in Brady's offense and we aren't going to miss the departed Harty or Sherfield at all.

 

Defensive Line

Are we really going to miss Phillips, Lawson, Ford or Settle? No didn't think so.  That leaves Leonard Floyd.  No BS, we are going to miss him.  The hope here is that Miller can capture at least some of his old form (he did look better in the playoffs) and that he and Epenesa can be effective enough to allow Rousseau to go back to his natural position and make up for the loss of Floyd.  My hope is that they draft a edge rusher in the 2nd rd to help make up for the loss.

 

Offensive line

Out with Bates and Morse.  Considering Bates played all of 35 snaps, I don't think he'll be missed.  Morse on the other hand has been the Bills center for the last 5 years and has done a very good job, but at 32 it is a reasonable question to ask how much he has left in the tank.  Beane solution is moving McGovern to center and creating a competition for the guard spot to returnee David Edwards (148 snaps last season - the most by a Bills backup OL) and presumably veteran La'el Collins. Collins has started 86 of 89 career games as a rt, but missed last season with injuries.  

 

Running back

Lat Murray, Hines and Harris are gone.  They won't be missed.  Cook became a star last season. Ty Johnson also returns and was very effective last season in limited reps.  The Bills will likely add another back at some point

 

Safety

Out with Hyde and Poyer and in with Mike Edwards and Rapp becomes a starter.  This is a slight downgrade based on last year's grades, but it was time to move on from Hyde and Poyer.  

 

Corners and Linebackers

White and Dodson are the big name departures, but given White's injury history and the return to health of pro bower Matt Milano, the play of Taron Johnson, Douglas, Benard and Benford, I don't think we'll miss either player.

 

On paper the Bills are slightly downgraded.  We have fair questions at WR, OL, DL and safety.  However, I'm not worried about the wide receivers.  To me, removing DIggs and Davis has opened the opportunity for Allen to longer have to worry about Diggs getting targets.  He can now focus solely on who is open.  At safety, the declines in Poyer and Hyde were very noticeable and Rapp and Edwards should give us at least when the vets did.   I'm also not worried about the OL.  Torrence and Brown should continue to improve and McGovern proved he has a very capable interior lineman last season.  The only loss the really worries me is Floyd. 

 

Despite the downgrades on paper, I can see the Bills actually improving next season.  I think the offense will be better and more consistent.  Besides Allen and Dawkins, the heart of the offense are all young players in Brown, Torrence, Shakir, Kincaid and Cook who should continue to improve.  

 

On defense it's much the same story.  Oliver, Milano and T Johnson are the core, but they received a significant lift from improving kids Benford, Benard, and Rousseau.  

 

 

Floyd fell off a cliff, not sure it hurts as much as you think. What did he bring the the second half if the season?

[Richard Noggin]

13 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Floyd fell off a cliff, not sure it hurts as much as you think. What did he bring the the second half if the season?

 

Like everyone else on the defense, he was hurt. But yeah he did fail to bounce back from that hurt and produce again.

[Meatloaf63]

1 minute ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Like everyone else on the defense, he was hurt. But yeah he did fail to bounce back from that hurt and produce again.

I guess nobody but Floyd knows what his status truly was in the playoffs, but he brought very little that’s for sure.

[stuvian]

I will miss Diggs. He delivered and played with passion. Drama too but he backed it up. He's a great football player. 

 

He's also entering year ten of his career and Beane was right to get something for him while he could. 

 

Is there a diva WR who has won a ring? Only Andre Rison and Antonio Brown come to mind and their teams didn't exactly win because of them.

[GoBills!]

Most of those guys will be missed due to their leadership and familiarity with us. 
 

Every year there are great players drafted at these spots and there are guys who step up into roles. I would say Dodson will be missed because he earned his pay but just goes to show what talent we have that isn’t being utilized. 
 

Shakir looks like he has potential plus Kincaid will be better and stronger. Add in a 1-3 round WR and we are set. 
 

O line we will miss the Morse-Josh connection they worked well together. But let’s see what we have in our younger talent. 
 

D line - Floyd was great for 3/4 of the year then disappeared. 
 

Bernard is going to improve and was already off to a great start. 
 

FS and SS - we lose leadership but gain hard hitting and speed. 
 

 

I would love to see a WR, RB, DE, and a safety in this draft. Power runner on short yards and pass protection. 

[FireChans]

54 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

If the PITA earning big $$$ produced like he did 2 years ago, he'd be worth keeping.   Maybe Diggs needs a "refresh" -- ie, a new team -- every few years.

 

 

A generational talent at QB in his prime and a solid, pretty young OL trumps a 40-year-old QB coming off a serious injury and an OL dependent upon multiple aging and/or returning from injury linemen.   Let's be realistic here.   All the hype about the Jests is based on the assumption that Rodgers is going come back from his Achilles injury as good as he was in Green Bay but his last season in GB was one of his poorest, with his highest INTs in a dozen years.   Having a great defense won't win the the Jests the AFCE or even a wild card berth if Rodgers doesn't return to his pre-2022 form or gets seriously injured.

 

 

I do not agree with this.

 

They won 7 games two years in a row with bottom of the barrel QB play. If Rodgers manages to be a top 20 QB,  and they stay healthy, I think they are a WC team.

Edited April 7 by FireChans

[benderbender]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

This is quite a broad brush you’re painting with. 
 

The vast majority of this fanbase is vocal in their love of Jordan Poyer. 

I honestly hope you’re right. I would love to believe that he was only excoriated on this board for his personal health opinions by a small minority of the fanbase that was absurdly loud during a certain period of mass panic that were all supposed to have amnesia about. And so I will. 

 

The shots taken at his wife weren’t classy. Condemning his charity work due to political disagreements wasn’t something to be proud of. I just felt he deserved more. That’s all. 

[benderbender]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

where/when did he :"take less money" than he could have gotten?

When he came back last year his projected annual value was $11 mil a year and 3 years according to CBS. 

[hondo in seattle]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

 

What I can't get over is the drop in Diggs' catch %.  I don't think that has anything to do with Brady, and everything to do with Diggs.  

 

It's also not like Diggs stopped being the focus of the passing attack under Brady.  Diggs was targeted 111 times from week 7 through the playoffs.  Kincaid was targeted 83 times and Shakir 52.  The difference was Diggs had 636 yards on his 111 targets, Kincaid 659 on his 83 targets and Shakir 646 on his 52.  Hard to blame Brady when Diggs wasn't being effective.

 

Logically, these are all good points.  It's just odd to me that Diggs was an effective receiver (at least in the regular season) under both Daboll and Dorsey but not under Brady.  It doesn't seem probable he suddenly became slower or forgot how to run routes in the middle of the season when Brady took over as OC.  It seems more likely Brady was misusing him in some way.  Which may have contributed to Diggs wanting out of Buffalo.  

 

 

[That's No Moon]

13 hours ago, SCBills said:

This is quite a broad brush you’re painting with. 
 

The vast majority of this fanbase is vocal in their love of Jordan Poyer. 

Yeah, I liked Darryl Talley too. Dude was a warrior. But, when you're done you're done. 

[GASabresIUFan]

39 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Logically, these are all good points.  It's just odd to me that Diggs was an effective receiver (at least in the regular season) under both Daboll and Dorsey but not under Brady.  It doesn't seem probable he suddenly became slower or forgot how to run routes in the middle of the season when Brady took over as OC.  It seems more likely Brady was misusing him in some way.  Which may have contributed to Diggs wanting out of Buffalo.  

 

 

His decline began at least 4 weeks before Brady became OC in week 11.  I believe Brady spreading the ball around was partly adjusting to Diggs’ decline. 
 

The truth is the offense with Diggs as the focus wasn’t working.  Involving Cook, Kincaid and Shakir was necessary to get the offense back on track.  If Diggs didn’t like it, it’s just another reason for Beane to have moved on.

[BillsPride12]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m going to miss the Micah Hyde softball game honestly. It was always fun. 

I think I heard somewhere(possibly Sal C on WGR?) that he is going to continue to do his softball game 

[billykay]

23 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

If he continued to play the entire season like he did the first 6 weeks, he'd still be here.  Unfortunately he went from catching 74% of his targets early in the year to 61% over the last 13 weeks.  He also dropped a sure fire TD in the playoffs against KC that likely would have won us the game.  Produce and no one cares about your attitude.  Failing to produce and having a bad attitude gets someone traded.

Does anyone have a video of Diggs' dropped pass in the playoff game ?

[<bills4life>]

On 4/6/2024 at 10:58 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

sure, they might.  That's not the topic.

 

Outside of O-line (assuming flat earther QB can play), the Jets are loaded.

Well then I guess we should all be thankful that games are not won on paper. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

13 hours ago, stuvian said:

I will miss Diggs. He delivered and played with passion. Drama too but he backed it up. He's a great football player. 

 

He's also entering year ten of his career and Beane was right to get something for him while he could. 

 

Is there a diva WR who has won a ring? Only Andre Rison and Antonio Brown come to mind and their teams didn't exactly win because of them.

How about Terrell Owens joing those two!

[GASabresIUFan]

2 hours ago, billykay said:

Does anyone have a video of Diggs' dropped pass in the playoff game ?

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2024/01/22/stefon-diggs-josh-allen-dropped-pass-bills-chiefs/
 

video in the article.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:45 AM, GASabresIUFan said:

The question of Elite players keeps coming up and is a fair question.  Besides Milano (when healthy) and Taron Johnson, who is the elite player on the Bils defense? Trying to be objective, I think the answer is potentially Benard.  Being "elite" is also a very hard question.  Neither Hyde or Poyer were considered elite when the Bills signed them.  

 

On offense, I think we have elite players.  Allen, Cook, Dawkins, and Kincaid are all elite players.  Torrence and possibly Shakir have that potential as well if they build on last season.  Cook finished 4th in rushing and 3rd in scrimmage yards by a RB last season.  That's elite production.  

That's very fair, especially Hyde, Poyer and Diggs.

Ed Oliver 

[hondo in seattle]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

His decline began at least 4 weeks before Brady became OC in week 11.  I believe Brady spreading the ball around was partly adjusting to Diggs’ decline. 
 

The truth is the offense with Diggs as the focus wasn’t working.  Involving Cook, Kincaid and Shakir was necessary to get the offense back on track.  If Diggs didn’t like it, it’s just another reason for Beane to have moved on.

 

I'm not disappointed Beane and McD moved on from Diggs.  But I don't see that Brady got the offense 'back on track.'  Brady's offense last season neither scored a ton of points nor moved a lot of yards.  

[GASabresIUFan]

Bills were 5-5 under Dorsey with 26.2 pts/g and 370.1 yards/g  1st D/g 22

 

Under Brady 7-2 with 27.1 pts/g and 377.9 yards/g   1st D/g 23.6

 

The offense was slightly better, but the record was significantly better.

 

 

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm not disappointed Beane and McD moved on from Diggs.  But I don't see that Brady got the offense 'back on track.'  Brady's offense last season neither scored a ton of points nor moved a lot of yards.  

After Dorsey was fired we did not lose anymore games by giving teams extra chances to win because we had 12 men on the field. At least that problem was solved by Dorsey's firing. 

[ganesh]

21 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Like everyone else on the defense, he was hurt. But yeah he did fail to bounce back from that hurt and produce again.

They all failed to produce in the Playoffs when it was very much needed.   

[Billzgobowlin]

Worried most about the Safety room.  Rapp seems to get injured and no depth currently.  As far as Diggs and Davis, I like who is left.  The big thing is they have to catch the ball.  Is there a playmaker catching the ball probably not other than Kincaid but offseason isn't done yet.

[KCNC]

Morse is my prediction

[HardyBoy]

On 4/6/2024 at 10:17 AM, GASabresIUFan said:

The sports "Media" is already beginning their "analysis" that the Bills are done in 2024.  The Athletic (a NYT company) has an article today by the Jets beat writer about how the Jets have the most talented roster in the AFC East (their 80 year old QB not withstanding) and we all know how objective the NYT is.

 

https://theathletic.com/5388899/2024/04/04/jets-best-afc-east-roster-diggs-trade/

 

How much are we really going to miss any of the players released, traded or not re-signed this off-season?

 

Wide Receivers

Let's start with the elephant in the room.  The Bills moved on from both veteran boundary receivers including "superstar" Stefon Diggs.  Those two accounted for 2349 receiving yards last season and 15 TDs.  However, Davis caught only 56% of his targets and after week 6 Diggs caught only 61% of his opportunities.  In fact, Diggs, after week 6, was on pace to only put up 830 yards (on 145 targets) in a full season.  That would have put him 25 in NFL.  He also was clearly no longer a fit in a Joe Brady offense. 

 

On the other hand Kincaid and Shakir flourished after week 6.  Kincaid was inactive in week 6, but over the next 13 weeks (including the playoffs) his usage increased and he paced for 860 yards over a 17 week season.  His usage in his second season should increase further with Diggs gone.  Shakir's game also changed after week 6.  In the first 6 weeks last season, Shakir averaged less than 1 target per game.  1 target!  After week six, Shakir was on pace for 845 yards (on only 68 targets).  

 

I also researched how the average WR drafted from 20-40 over the last 5 years produced in his rookie season.  The average was about 660 yards.  There were some stars like Jefferson, Tee Higgins, and Jordan Addison and some duds, but for the most part most were solid to good.  I'm confident that Beane & Co will find someone in the draft to help the Bills stretch the field with their 1st pick, something we didn't have last season.

 

In addition we added proven slot receiver Curtis Samuel who should flourish in Brady's offense and we aren't going to miss the departed Harty or Sherfield at all.

 

Defensive Line

Are we really going to miss Phillips, Lawson, Ford or Settle? No didn't think so.  That leaves Leonard Floyd.  No BS, we are going to miss him.  The hope here is that Miller can capture at least some of his old form (he did look better in the playoffs) and that he and Epenesa can be effective enough to allow Rousseau to go back to his natural position and make up for the loss of Floyd.  My hope is that they draft a edge rusher in the 2nd rd to help make up for the loss.

 

Offensive line

Out with Bates and Morse.  Considering Bates played all of 35 snaps, I don't think he'll be missed.  Morse on the other hand has been the Bills center for the last 5 years and has done a very good job, but at 32 it is a reasonable question to ask how much he has left in the tank.  Beane solution is moving McGovern to center and creating a competition for the guard spot to returnee David Edwards (148 snaps last season - the most by a Bills backup OL) and presumably veteran La'el Collins. Collins has started 86 of 89 career games as a rt, but missed last season with injuries.  

 

Running back

Lat Murray, Hines and Harris are gone.  They won't be missed.  Cook became a star last season. Ty Johnson also returns and was very effective last season in limited reps.  The Bills will likely add another back at some point

 

Safety

Out with Hyde and Poyer and in with Mike Edwards and Rapp becomes a starter.  This is a slight downgrade based on last year's grades, but it was time to move on from Hyde and Poyer.  

 

Corners and Linebackers

White and Dodson are the big name departures, but given White's injury history and the return to health of pro bower Matt Milano, the play of Taron Johnson, Douglas, Benard and Benford, I don't think we'll miss either player.

 

On paper the Bills are slightly downgraded.  We have fair questions at WR, OL, DL and safety.  However, I'm not worried about the wide receivers.  To me, removing DIggs and Davis has opened the opportunity for Allen to longer have to worry about Diggs getting targets.  He can now focus solely on who is open.  At safety, the declines in Poyer and Hyde were very noticeable and Rapp and Edwards should give us at least when the vets did.   I'm also not worried about the OL.  Torrence and Brown should continue to improve and McGovern proved he has a very capable interior lineman last season.  The only loss the really worries me is Floyd. 

 

Despite the downgrades on paper, I can see the Bills actually improving next season.  I think the offense will be better and more consistent.  Besides Allen and Dawkins, the heart of the offense are all young players in Brown, Torrence, Shakir, Kincaid and Cook who should continue to improve.  

 

On defense it's much the same story.  Oliver, Milano and T Johnson are the core, but they received a significant lift from improving kids Benford, Benard, and Rousseau.  

 

 

 

Why is it relevant that it's owned by the NYT?

[Thurman#1]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:17 PM, GASabresIUFan said:

Are we really going to miss any of the departed players?

 

 

 

Yes, of course we are. Diggs was our best receiver, Morse an excellent center. It goes on like that. Of course we are, particularly the starters. They were the best players on our team at the position.

 

Particularly Diggs and Morse, but White and others too.

 

Does that mean we're doomed to a horrible year? No, we could still be a damn good team.

 

But we absolutely got worse. Very significantly. The question now is how much better we can now get.

 

The sour grapes we see here is the same every time a player leaves the Bills. He left, so we didn't need him.  It's nonsense. But we can now watch Beane fight his way through replacing them. That's part of the fun of the off-season.

 

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

They all failed to produce in the Playoffs when it was very much needed.   

 

 

The defense was absolutely demolished by injuries and we still came within a play or two of a win.

 

For how many players either couldn't play or were seriously injured, they had a a great game.

 

 

Edited April 8 by Thurman#1

[KingBoots8]

I will miss them, in that I wanted that core of players to be the ones to get the job done. Poyer, Hyde, Tre, Morse… all instrumental in helping get us out of the gutter and being real contenders. Say what you will about their injuries or their slowing down a bit with age, but these dudes were a part of a really genuinely good core of dudes. 
 

I think they, like anyone, are replaceable and also think that it was time for many of them. Hyde I didn’t want to see injured again, I didn’t want Morse to get another concussion, Tre… talk about just bad luck for a guy who was an absolute beast when healthy before these injuries, and Poyer is still capable of playing but he’s on his way out of the league sooner rather than later.

 

Diggs? I think we miss him a bit, but I also think he’s been a distraction and has vanished when it comes down to playoff-time football. There’s a very petty part of me that wants us to win this year just so he can see we always has it in us, and he can watch on as Josh gets it done without him.