Bills to interview Thad Lewis for OC

[strive_for_five_guy]

20 minutes ago, phypon said:

I really hope you are joking.  See, here is the difference between you and me.  I'm not discounting him because he is a minority.  I'm discounting him because he has no OC experience.  We just went down that road with Dorsey and look how that turned out.  It's actually a disservice to Thad and somehow you can't see that and instead want to try to spin it into a feel good story.  I don't know what else to say to people like you. 

If you don’t have OC experience, you know how you get some?  You interview for an OC gig, and fingers crossed, eventually convince someone you are qualified and get hired.  Assuming you’ve landed a job in life, hopefully your first employer saw more of your potential than you’re giving Thad credit for.

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Fair. But then his work with Baker is impressive. And we know former NFL QBs (even mediocre ones) tend to get a leg up when it comes to QB and OC coaching. Witness Ken Dorsey for instance.

It’s a cautionary tale. I’m sure it was a collaborative effort but I tend to think the guy designing the offense and calling plays should get more credit. Like Daboll and Dorsey.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Sorry, triggered. Drought flashback. 

 

Oh, now that I've collected myself........no. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

It’s a cautionary tale. I’m sure it was a collaborative effort but I tend to think the guy designing the offense and calling plays should get more credit. Like Daboll and Dorsey.

Brian Callahan just got a HC job and he has called zero plays in college or the NFL. Not a one.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

It’s a cautionary tale. I’m sure it was a collaborative effort but I tend to think the guy designing the offense and calling plays should get more credit. Like Daboll and Dorsey.

 

Sure. But then how does any coach ever step up through the ranks? You look at QB coaches who have got the most out of their Quarterback. I tend to think Thad did better at that than Joe Brady this year.

[chongli]

A little disappointed about the implications here that the reason Thad Lewis will be interviewed is because of the Rooney rule. He will be interviewed because he is one of the best candidates for the job, period. His work elevating Baker Mayfield's game this season was phenomenal.  He is a young and upcoming coach who will soon be a coordinator.

 

The same flawed reasoning can be said of sideline reporters, who are part of the three- or four-person broadcasting crew. They are not meant to be "eye candy". They are hired for their phenomenal reporting skills. To say otherwise demeans them.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Low Positive said:

Brian Callahan just got a HC job and he has called zero plays in college or the NFL. Not a one.

 

But his dad is a coach sooooo.......

[phypon]

3 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

If you don’t have OC experience, you know how you get some?  You interview for an OC gig, and fingers crossed, eventually convince someone you are qualified and get hired.  Assuming you’ve landed a job in life, hopefully your first employer saw more of your potential than you’re giving Thad credit for.

Would you take Thad over Brady?  Do you give more credit to Thad than Brady?  So tell me your pick, Thad or Brady?  Those are your two choices and tell me why you are choosing one over the other.

[dpberr]

IMO, if you want to be an NFL coordinator or coach, you need to spend your own money on the quality agent to represent you. 

 

As I've said many times over the years, Juan Castillo's agent belongs in the agent hall of fame.  Whoever he or she is, they got that guy more jobs than he ever actually deserved.  I think Todd Bowles hired the same person.  

 

90% of the hires are because of pre-existing relationships.  X knows Y, or worked with Z, or T vouches for...

 

I don't feel bad for Thad Lewis.  A good interview gets him that relationship.  Perhaps a college calls up the Bills FO because they want to hire him as head coach.  Or perhaps the Bills need a coach next year, and that interview impressed them.  

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I hate that any black coach who gets an interview gets "Rooney Rule" shouted at them

 

Ironically, this common reaction is evidence of why the Rooney Rule needs to exist.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, phypon said:

Would you take Thad over Brady?  Do you give more credit to Thad than Brady?  So tell me your pick, Thad or Brady?  Those are your two choices and tell me why you are choosing one over the other.

 

I'd pick Brady because he has called plays for us and done okay. But if we had fired Dorsey just, as in this week after the season, and I was comparing like for like in terms of who, as a QB coach, had got their QB playing with the best fundamentals of their career and maximised their talents then I think there would be a legit case for taking Thad over Joe.

[phypon]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd pick Brady because he has called plays for us and done okay. But if we had fired Dorsey just, as in this week after the season, and I was comparing like for like in terms of who, as a QB coach, had got their QB playing with the best fundamentals of their career and maximised their talents then I think there would be a legit case for taking Thad over Joe.

I totally agree with that line of thinking.  100%

[GunnerBill]

Just now, phypon said:

I totally agree with that line of thinking.  100%

 

To be clear I am not arguing for them hire Thad. I think, as you do, thst the Bills should be looking for playcalling experience. 

 

But there will be first time OCs hired in this cycle without playcalling experience. And of the names in that hat Thad is a credible name. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

The problem I have with this interview is that (at least to me) signifies that a real OC search is not about to happen. The job is Joe's. Just like it was Ken's in the last OC search. They are choosing comfortable over what may be better for the development and growth of the offense. 

 

There are plenty of minority candidates with better qualifications if they wanted to conduct a true search for OC. Perhaps ask for permission to interview EB? Duce Staley. This is a farce to meet a rule. 

 

Different conversation from the Rooney Rule, but I for one will not be satisfied if the entire interview process amounts to just Thad Lewis and Joe Brady. We have an elite QB in the prime of his career. Any offensive coach looking to take a step up in their career should be pounding on our door. Run a full and extensive interview process, approach each candidate with complete objectivity, and hire the best one. If that's Brady, so be it.

 

Part of me wonders if Dorsey getting fired will make some potential candidates hesistant. You're choosing to work with a defensive head coach who has a history of not spending ample resources on the offense, and one OC already got the axe after leading a productive offense. I think most NFL coaches are arrogant enough about their own abilities to look past that, but it's something to consider.

 

Edited January 26 by HappyDays

[julian]

So where are the sons of black head coaches and coordinators? Are they not not eligible for the nepotism sweepstakes ? Do the sons of black coaches not follow in their father’s footsteps !

[buffaloboyinATL]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Last Bills game I attended was Thad vs the Bengals. Great game but sad ending. 

Unfortunately, that recap applies to way too many Bills games over the past few years…

[MJS]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Explain Nate Hackett? Or Pat Shurmur having two chances to be a head coach? Or Rob Ryan? Or Andy Reid’s ex heroin son being a d line coach? Or garbage Brian Schottmeir? Or a million other examples.

 

im not saying it’s all racism but it isn’t just the best guys getting the job. There is a guy in high school or college who is a million times better than Hackett but will never get a chance because is dad wasn’t a nfl coach or he’s not friends with the right people. 

Sure, but the rooney rule doesn't help those situations at all. It is a rule that doesn't really do anything.

[Bangarang]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure. But then how does any coach ever step up through the ranks? You look at QB coaches who have got the most out of their Quarterback. I tend to think Thad did better at that than Joe Brady this year.

My biggest concern with giving a guy that has such limited coaching experience an entire offense to run is how diverse will his play sheet and play calling be. Will he have enough credibility to have an offense buy into what he is preaching? It’s not as though he’s worked under some offensive gurus either.

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, phypon said:

Would you take Thad over Brady?  Do you give more credit to Thad than Brady?  So tell me your pick, Thad or Brady?  Those are your two choices and tell me why you are choosing one over the other.

 

I want an experienced play caller. That's been my desire going to back to the 2022 offseason when we hired Dorsey, and I was not a fan of that hire for that reason. That being said it is not realistic to only interview experienced play callers. There are simply not too many of them that are worth interviewing that don't already have jobs.

 

But there are people like Ben Johnson and Bobby Slowik and Shane Steichen who had never called plays but found immediate success in year one as OCs. So it is possible to find a home run from that pool of candidates.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

1.  It isn't unfortunate for Thad Lewis, who gets much needed interview experience with one of the best organizations in the league. Maybe he surprises us and we peg him for future jobs.

 

2.  Things change very quickly in the NFL. I am a proponent of interviewing as many qualified candidates as possible since there is nothing to lose.

1.  Yes, and

 

2.  Yes.  

 

Beane and McDermott are not stupid.   They aren't close to being stupid.  They're going to do whatever they think will make the team better.   When Brady took over, I didn't see fireworks on the field.   I'd say the offense was better than under Dorsey, but it still was the Daboll offense, reworked.   

 

In his interview, Brady has to explain his plan for the offense, his vision.  If his plan is Daboll's offense, tweaked, well fine, that's one way to go.  But McDermott and Beane understand that Daboll's isn't the only vision; they're going to want to hear what ideas other guys have.  If Brady wants to install his vision rather than Daboll's, then Brady's vision is going to have compete what those other guys are thinking.    

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

My biggest concern with giving a guy that has such limited coaching experience an entire offense to run is how diverse will his play sheet and play calling be. Will he have enough credibility to have an offense buy into what he is preaching? It’s not as though he’s worked under some offensive gurus either.

 

Demeco Ryans became a coordinator after 3 years as a position coach and then a Head Coach after two years as a coordinator. Sean McVay had three years as a position coach before getting his OC gig too. Bryon Leftwich had one and a half seasons as a position coach before he became an OC. 

 

I don't think it is that rare now. Especially on the offensive side because the pool depletes so quickly.

Edited January 26 by GunnerBill

[HappyDays]

Beane may have slipped up in his postseason presser:

 

I hope this is not true and that Beane merely misspoke. I hope Brady is not getting handed the job without any kind of objective external interview process, even though I think he did a lot of good things.

[DapperCam]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Unfortunately we all know why this is happening.

Maybe he makes a positive impression and he gets a real crack at it when our next OC inevitably leaves for a HC job somewhere in 2.5 years.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Beane may have slipped up in his postseason presser:

 

I hope this is not true and that Beane merely misspoke. I hope Brady is not getting handed the job without any kind of objective external interview process, even though I think he did a lot of good things.

 

I mean he is the obvious leader in the clubhouse. Might lead to the misspeaking. But Beane is a pretty straight shooter. He is telling you there that his expectations was Joe is the OC. I haven't watched Brandon's presser yet. Seen Sean's but it's been a busy week. And Brandon's is always an hour to savour because he pretty much tells you what is coming next in terms of moves. I'll settle down with a coffee tomorrow and enjoy it.

[BBFL]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Unfortunately we all know why this is happening.

Man that year had some crowd favorites; Manuel, Thad, Tuel. 
 

Remember, they benched Thad and we got the Tuel Time @ 6 the following week…

 

That was also Andy Reid’s first season in KC. 

 

😔
 

 

 

 

Edited January 26 by BBFL

[julian]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Beane may have slipped up in his postseason presser:

 

I hope this is not true and that Beane merely misspoke. I hope Brady is not getting handed the job without any kind of objective external interview process, even though I think he did a lot of good things.

He did a great job under difficult circumstances, of course they’ve decided to promote him, they will take advantage of the mandatory interview rules to file away some names for future considerations.

[klos63]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yea, experience is not why he's being interviewed by multiple teams this off season. But he does "check a few boxes". 

 

It's a good chance for him to get his name out there for the future, but most people I think would agree he's not very qualified.

Why not? QB coaches aren't qualified to be promoted to OC? 

[strive_for_five_guy]

45 minutes ago, phypon said:

Would you take Thad over Brady?  Do you give more credit to Thad than Brady?  So tell me your pick, Thad or Brady?  Those are your two choices and tell me why you are choosing one over the other.

Once I interview them both, I’ll let you know my decision.  Until then, I don’t know better than any other Joe Schmo on the street.  You apparently do though lol

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, klos63 said:

Why not? QB coaches aren't qualified to be promoted to OC? 

IMO, not ones that have such little overall coaching experience.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Man that year had some crowd favorites; Manuel, Thad, Tuel. 
 

Remember, they benched Thad and we got the Tuel Time @ 6 the following week…

 

That was also Andy Reid’s first season in KC. 

 

😔
 

 

Don't think they benched Thad. Think he got hurt too. EJ and Thad were both out. 

[phypon]

5 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Once I interview them both, I’ll let you know my decision.  Until then, I don’t know better than any other Joe Schmo on the street.  You apparently do though lol

Don't worry, I didn't expect you to have an answer.  Others have actually answered and put thought behind it and actually were able to have a discussion.  You, you're just a blowhard talking out your a**.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

IMO, not ones that have such little overall coaching experience.

 

Sean McVay had the same experience as an NFL position coach. Unless you think his one year coaching receivers for 6 games in the UFL made him uniquely more qualified? Because otherwise his experience on becoming an OC was the same as Thad's - two years as analyst / assistant; three years as a position coach.

[BBFL]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Don't think they benched Thad. Think he got hurt too. EJ and Thad were both out. 

Oh ok. I was under the presumption they benched him after all those fumbles which led to us getting blown out in NOLA…

 

I know Manuel came back as the starter the week after that KC game they put Tuel in. 
 

Thought it was just a switch to try something different for productivity. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Please let's not reminisce about those EJ/Thad/Tuel days. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BBFL said:

Oh ok. I was under the presumption they benched him after all those fumbles which led to us getting blown out in NOLA…

 

I know Manuel came back as the starter the week after that KC game they put Tuel in. 
 

Thought it was just a switch to try something different for productivity. 

 

From memory Thad was out. I think Matt Flynn was brought in to back up and Tuel started. It was 10 and a bit years ago though so memory might be hazy. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Sean McVay had the same experience as an NFL position coach. Unless you think his one year coaching receivers for 6 games in the UFL made him uniquely more qualified? Because otherwise his experience on becoming an OC was the same as Thad's - two years as analyst / assistant; three years as a position coach.

Pointing to McVay as the exception is like someone that uses Tom Brady as "the reason" 6th round draft picks are insanely valuable. 

 

Could Thad be special? Sure. Anything is possible. He could be some sort of wonder kid. But is that the guy you want running the offense on a team with Super Bowl goals? He ready to match up against the Spagnuolos and Anarumos of the NFL? Highly doubtful IMO.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

Pointing to McVay as the exception is like someone that uses Tom Brady as "the reason" 6th round draft picks are insanely valuable. 

 

Could Thad be special? Sure. Anything is possible. He could be some sort of wonder kid. But is that the guy you want running the offense on a team with Super Bowl goals? He ready to match up against the Spagnuolos and Anarumos of the NFL? Highly doubtful IMO.

 

Demeco Ryans. Byran Leftwich. There are other examples too. It is not as rare these days as I think you might think it is. 

[klos63]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

IMO, not ones that have such little overall coaching experience.

But you really don't know if he's qualified or not.  Maybe the Bills know better

[Cash]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Last Bills game I attended was Thad vs the Bengals. Great game but sad ending. 

 

Not the most recent one, but I did see Thad duel Drew Brees in the Superdome back in 2017.  SPOILER:  Brees won the duel.

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sean McVay had the same experience as an NFL position coach. Unless you think his one year coaching receivers for 6 games in the UFL made him uniquely more qualified? Because otherwise his experience on becoming an OC was the same as Thad's - two years as analyst / assistant; three years as a position coach.

As usual, you're on top of the detail.   Thanks for speaking up, here and earlier.  

 

The reality is that guys who have it just have it, and the actual pros in the league can tell whether they have it or not.  You mention Demeco Ryans.   Sean McVay was one.  Bill Belichick was one - lots of people knew who Belichick was, and that's why teams were fighting over him.  Terrell Bernard was one, too.  The Baylor head coach told McDermott that Bernard was one of those guys with a deep understanding of the game.

 

Some other guys get halos attached to their heads early, and then have trouble living up to it.  Kellen Moore, for example.  And, I think, Dorsey.  

 

I remember hearing that Mike Tomlin was just another guy to interview when the Steelers were looking for a head coach, and then he came in for the interview.   Blew everyone away.  

 

Beane knows what he's doing, and McDermott does, too.  When they interviewed Josh Allen, they knew pretty quickly he had the right stuff in his head.  If a young Sean McVay shows up in the interview room, they are not likely to miss it.