Allen was legendary (even better than 13 seconds Allen)

[Billsfanatic8989]

Just now, zow2 said:

 

Pacheco was huge and didn't play in the regular season matchup.  Plus Mahomes is obviously a GREAT QB, throws on point and the receivers caught everything last night.  AT one point they had 8 chunk plays to our zero. KC's defense, while solid, got pushed around last night but they got some stops when needed.  And lucky with the Bass miss which may have only prolonged our agony another couple mins.

Yeah Bass making the kick would be moot anyways. We all know what would happen following that. 

 

I was watching and wondering if they should have just gone for it on 4th down. You know you are going to lose with a fg the other way anyways. Make them go get a Td.

[BillsMontreal]

Allen and the offense were our best Defense yesterday.  The only reason the Chiefs didnt score 40points is because the time our offense was on the field.

 

A lot of QB could score at will against a backup Defense.  They gave us all they can, but there's a limit of this -next man up- concept.

A couple of -next man up- is fine. Others starters could talk to them on the field. But so many bakcup at this time of the year in playoff? 

 

The Chiefs should win this game easily.  Our Bills stay in the game by eating the clock a lot on offense.

 

We can talk about every play we missed, but the Chiefs also missed some play and a big one at the goal line  when they fumble the ball.

 

The offense really did a good job to keep that game close. 

It's sad because they did almost everthing they had to do to help the defense, stay in the game, and they kinda blew it at the two minuts warning.

 

Credits to the Chiefs, but they are very lucky this year. They just played their two playoffs game against decimate defense. 

They did what they had to do in both game, but they didnt play against an healtly Bills yesterday and it's part of the game.

 

Bottom of line, we are 5-6 now in playoffs. It is what it is, no matter behing how many wins in season we want to hide that fact.

[HopelessNJBuffaloFan]

9 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

So?

 

0-3 against Mahomes in the playoffs … will hear it a thousand times 

MaOwned

[Roundybout]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

Allen unnecessarily went into hero ball mode. 
 

More than anything else, I think that is why we lost. 

Insane ***** take. How do people STILL default to blame Allen when he breaks his neck every single week just for a first down???

Edited January 22 by Roundybout

[2003Contenders]

9 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

At least two of those three long passes are caught by almost any competent NFL WR.  Did you see the catch the KC WR made on the long pass to kick off the 3rd quarter which was exactly the same pay that Sherfield couldn't make?  And I don't want to hear a peep from Diggs or his brother in the off season.  NOT A FREAKING WORD.

 

 

Bingo! The difference in the game? Mahomes' much-maligned receivers caught virtually every catchable pass thrown to them -- Josh's did not.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

As great as he was during the 13 seconds game, the Chiefs were a mess defensively, tripping over themselves as Einstein said, and he had support from the rest of the offense through the game. How many drops were there during 13 seconds? And last night? Arguably, he was a key component during 13 seconds but not the be all and end all. Last night, bar Kincaid early on, he had to do everything.

 

Having slept on it, I’m in two minds about the final drive, but can see why he threw deep. It’s a shame that’s going to detract what he did for through the rest of the game.

They needed to score a TD there but don't take that to mean I am criticizing Allen.   Yes Diggs needs to catch the ball, I can give Sherfield a pass given his stature in the league.  Diggs is paid to make that catch.   I will also say the catch was not easy, not may passes are caught in the NFL with 65 air yards but it is reasonable to expect Diggs to make that play.   I think Allen was outstanding, to me the failure was the inability to stop the Chiefs offense.  It would have been ok to take the underneath play on 2nd and 9 to get into 3rd and short but Shakir was open, he just got affected by Chris Jones.   Even if the kick goes through, they are fairly big dogs to lose giving the ball to Mahomes with 2 minutes and 2 timeouts.

[Dan Darragh]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

Allen unnecessarily went into hero ball mode. 
 

More than anything else, I think that is why we lost. 

That's what I love about this board, you can say whatever you want without regard to facts.

[Matt_In_NH]

The Chiefs defense is outstanding which I am not sure is understood enough.  This game was lost on defense, if you told me the BIlls will run the ball effectively, score 24 points and have no turnovers I would have taken that.   Allowing those guys to score 27 in your house with a limited number of drives was the issue.  We can make the injury excuse but to me that is all it is, you have to scheme it up and fine a way.

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

7 points in the second half yesterday.  13 seconds he threw two tds in the last two minutes.  Why is this thread still going?   It’s like the Klein covering kelce of threads.  

 

Because some of us understood football and know that Allen doesn’t catch the ball or kick the field goals:

[SoonerBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Einstein said:

Allen was absolutely legendary tonight. Ran when he should have. Passed when he should have. Took the check down when he should have. He was darn near PERFECT.

 

67%, 258 total yards, 3 TD’s, 0 INT.

 

And against a top 5 Chiefs defense that was mostly healthy, unlike our mash unit.

 

Had Diggs and Sherfield played the game with NFL receiver hands, Allen would have had close to 400 yards of offense by himself.

 

And I don’t want to hear jack squat about his throw to the endzone on 2nd and 9. Allen had two good options on that play;

 

1) Shakir open in the endzone.

2) Diggs open on the crosser.

 

He chose Shakir, who had made several great catches during the game, over Diggs who had 2 drops during the game.

 

If Chris Jones didn’t push Dawkins into Allen’s side as he threw it, that would have been Allen’s 4th TD of the game.

 

Why do I believe he was better tonight that in the 13 seconds game? In that game, Allen by and large took advantage of the Chiefs falling over each other. Numerous slips and blown coverages. In this game, Allen was methodical tonight. 

 

It doesn't matter what Allen does, Defense sucks, play calling sucks and they provide him with crap for weapons. The man is fighting with both hands and feet tied and he STILL seems to make plays.  He should hold out this year and watch this team draft in the top 3-5, maybe then Terry wakes the hell up and understands he needs to take care of our franchise QB before anything else.  I doubt he will get it though.

[klos63]

59 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The Chiefs defense is outstanding which I am not sure is understood enough.  This game was lost on defense, if you told me the BIlls will run the ball effectively, score 24 points and have no turnovers I would have taken that.   Allowing those guys to score 27 in your house with a limited number of drives was the issue.  We can make the injury excuse but to me that is all it is, you have to scheme it up and fine a way.

Injuries are a pretty valid reason for ineffective play.  You can't always just ' find a way'.  Missing Milano and Bernard, having them replaced with a player no nfl team wanted isn't good. 

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Asking Allen to finish off that last drive would be basically par for the course with what is required to be a Super Bowl winning team. He had under 200 yards and was asked to deliver an efficient game plan which he did. 

 

You continue to have a difficult time separating an individual persons play from the offense as a whole.

 

- ALLEN threw a 70 yard bomb into the bread basket of his receiver on that final drive, and the receiver dropped it. That’s not on Allen.

 

- ALLEN diagnosed the defense and found a wide open Shakir for the go ahead TD and his left tackle was manhandled so badly on the play that he was pushed into him as he threw it. That’s not on Allen.

 

- ALLEN did not call a run on 1st down into a stacked box, effectively wasting a play.

 

If receivers had caught the balls Allen threw perfectly, we are talking about 300+ yard passing and 70+ yard rushing and 4 TD game for Allen.

 

If his LT didn’t get manhandled on 2nd and 9, we are talking about Allen throwing a laser for the go ahead TD.

Again, these are not Allen’s fault.

 

There are 10 other players on the offense. Not just Allen.

 

.

Edited January 22 by Einstein

[Royale with Cheese]

Allen played well and well enough to win the game.  He wasn’t legendary and no where close to 13 seconds. 

[TheBrownBear]

Allen was really good last night.  I think the thing that actually hurt us the most on that final drive was being down 3 points instead of say 28-24.  Given that we could tie the game with a field goal, Josh almost had to be slightly more careful with the ball than he otherwise would have, and we also lost a down by having the option to kick the FG.  There is little doubt in my mind that Allen drives us in for a TD with about 15-45 seconds to play if the FG option was off the table.

[Einstein]

11 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

The boxscore was obviously a lot more impressive in the 13 second game,  but I agree he was actually better tonight. The passing yardage is hurt by how often we ran the ball and the multiple drops. 

 

Post of the thread right here. 100% correct.

 

Those saying he was better in 13 seconds only remember the final 5 minutes. We punted FOUR times in that 13 seconds game. Allen played well of course, but it was two TD’s in blown coverages against the Chiefs backups that made the game legend. The Gabe TD that extended the game, no one was within 10 yards of him.

 

Last night, Allen was methodical. Brady-esque at times. He repeatedly took the smart play, whether that be a quick hitter for 5 yards or a swing pass, or extending the drive with his legs.

 

Had Sherfield and Diggs not coated their hands in butter, and Dawkins not manhandled, Allen would have had close to 400 yards of offense and 4 TD’s last night.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

34 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Because some of us understood football and know that Allen doesn’t catch the ball or kick the field goals:

Clearly you dont

31 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Injuries are a pretty valid reason for ineffective play.  You can't always just ' find a way'.  Missing Milano and Bernard, having them replaced with a player no nfl team wanted isn't good. 

I just believe they should have been able to overcome the deficiencies to make one or two stops the first three quarters against that offense (the 2023 version which was not that great).  

[RousseauRage]

Yay...another loss where we can pretend he's the greatest 🙄

[Mikie2times]

38 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Because some of us understood football and know that Allen doesn’t catch the ball or kick the field goals:

Allen played very well and I certainly don't blame him for the loss. But history does not care about anything you just said. Nobody remembers what a QB had when he didn't or didn't execute a game winning drive. Nobody is talking about how a OL was pushed back into the QB and that is why he missed a throw or a team that shouldn't have called a run play who did and that's why they didn't have enough plays. It is downright normal for a QB to have to execute on a game winning drive and at the end of the day all that matter is yes or no. Did he or didn't he. In this case he didn't, so to call this a legendary performance really is a flat out joke. It was a very good performance, certainly enough to win. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

12 hours ago, Gugny said:

Allen unnecessarily went into hero ball mode. 
 

More than anything else, I think that is why we lost. 

Turn in your keys sir, you're fired. 

Get this kid some receivers for Gods sake. EVERY year it's these retread bums. 

Diggs is washed. Gabe is gone, Khalil is the only one worth a *****. 

And Dalton needs to be featured more. 

 

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Allen played very well and I certainly don't blame him for the loss. But history does not care about anything you just said. 

 

Who mentioned anything about history (except for you)? You are creating a strawman argument.

 

What was said is that Allen played great. Period. That’s it.

 

Allen deserved the win. 

 

Diggs ruined it for him. Sherfield ruined it for him. Dawkins (on one play anyway) ruined it for him.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Clearly you dont

 

 

Says the guy who blames Allen for only 7 second half points and points to Klein (who gave up a grand total of TWO receptions to Kelce the entire game).

[Einstein]

 

[BeastMaster]

Legendary is completing that pass to Shakir to put us up 4 with less than two minutes

 

He was fantastic, but he needed to make that throw to Shakir

[UKBillFan]

57 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Allen played very well and I certainly don't blame him for the loss. But history does not care about anything you just said. Nobody remembers what a QB had when he didn't or didn't execute a game winning drive. Nobody is talking about how a OL was pushed back into the QB and that is why he missed a throw or a team that shouldn't have called a run play who did and that's why they didn't have enough plays. It is downright normal for a QB to have to execute on a game winning drive and at the end of the day all that matter is yes or no. Did he or didn't he. In this case he didn't, so to call this a legendary performance really is a flat out joke. It was a very good performance, certainly enough to win. 

The gutting thing is how many times has Josh left the field with a lead? Even in his downtime this season he seemed to do it more often than not. Yet in the biggest game of the season, he couldn’t do it. Blame Jones. Congratulate Jones. Say Josh should have thrown to Diggs. But, albeit unreasonably, that’s what’s going to follow him around the off season. On the plus side, it’s a damnsight better than what he had swirling around him after the Bengals game this time last year.

 

Edit - Or even blame Dawkins.

Edited January 22 by UKBillFan

[Aimee75]

Just now, BeastMaster said:

Legendary is completing that pass to Shakir to put us up 4 with less than two minutes

 

He was fantastic, but he needed to make that throw to Shakir

So you don't think Jones knocking Dawkins into Josh as he was throwing didn't impact that play? The difference is other teams always seem to have playmakers coming through for their team(Jones being the playmaker for KC) and The Bills relying on Josh all the time. 

[zow2]

At some point, Allen's running will slow down.  He can't keep getting smashed game in and game out in the regular season.  My question, can he be a good pocket QB?  I struggle with this because I love when he scrambles around and creates stuff off script (throwing or running).  When he stands in the pocket sometimes he is slow to read and release or throws an inaccurate series of passes.  

He's the entirety of the Buffalo Bills offense.  I want the guy to have an extended career even after the running slows up.

[2003Contenders]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The Chiefs defense is outstanding which I am not sure is understood enough.  This game was lost on defense, if you told me the BIlls will run the ball effectively, score 24 points and have no turnovers I would have taken that.   Allowing those guys to score 27 in your house with a limited number of drives was the issue.  We can make the injury excuse but to me that is all it is, you have to scheme it up and fine a way.

This.

 

The Vegas line had it at 2.5 for the Bills and and over-under of 45.5. That means that the Vegas experts implied a 24-21.5 game. So the offense held up to their end of the bargain. The defense gave up 5.5 points than projected.

 

While it can't be denied that the defense (secondary and LBers) was a MASH unit, the DL was pretty much healthy -- and with 10 available players on that unit, they should have been fresh all game. With the Bills offense dominating time of possession that is even more the case. So the real story -- beyond everything else that happened -- is why the DL with so much invested in it was unable to pick up the slack and at least apply some pressure on Mahomes, let alone bottle up Pacheco. And any game plan (regardless of injuries) that allowed Kelce to run as wide open as he did, needs to be highly scrutinized.

 

Also, credit where it is due, the Chiefs played very well. Their WRs (aside from Rice) played terribly all season -- and even in the playoffs against Miami had a number of key drops that resulted in stalled drives leading to FGs rather than TDs. Against the Bills last night, however, I do not recall a single dropped pass on the part of KC. Of course, the Bills had a number of huge ones.

[Warcodered]

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I never said it was Allen’s fault. I said asking Allen to close out a final drive is not anything that hasn’t been asked by Mahomes, Brady, and every other Super Bowl champion in NFL history. People are acting as if we put some unmanageable burden on Josh in this game. Not at all the case. The poor defensive performance increased that burden but he still nearly got it done with 200 yards passing and most that damage behind the line of scrimmage. 

Mahomes didn't do it last night, had the chance to get a 2 score lead and put the game away in the 4th and he takes his team nowhere and has to punt leaving nearly the perfect amount of time for Buffalo to grind out the clock on a long drive.

[UKBillFan]

12 minutes ago, zow2 said:

At some point, Allen's running will slow down.  He can't keep getting smashed game in and game out in the regular season.  My question, can he be a good pocket QB?  I struggle with this because I love when he scrambles around and creates stuff off script (throwing or running).  When he stands in the pocket sometimes he is slow to read and release or throws an inaccurate series of passes.  

He's the entirety of the Buffalo Bills offense.  I want the guy to have an extended career even after the running slows up.

I really want him to go back to Palmer this off season. Work on being more of a pocket passer, on making plays when the O Line holds up and he has time to survey the field. No one’s perfect but if he can improve on that, he’d be as close to unstoppable as a QB can be.

[Warcodered]

21 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

But he was okay I guess, because we'll only look at how people will look at the game historically, you know because why would we even care about what we actually saw.

[Mikie2times]

8 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Mahomes didn't do it last night, had the chance to get a 2 score lead and put the game away in the 4th and he takes his team nowhere and has to punt leaving nearly the perfect amount of time for Buffalo to grind out the clock on a long drive.

He has done it so many times I can't count and Josh will have to as well, as he has in the past. 

[zow2]

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

I really want him to go back to Palmer this off season. Work on being more of a pocket passer, on making plays when the O Line holds up and he has time to survey the field. No one’s perfect but if he can improve on that, he’d be as close to unstoppable as a QB can be.

 

Yeah i don't need perfection but there are plenty of occasions when he has a clean pocket and his eyes are a bit slow to react or he hesitates on his decision.  These result in those 2 yard completions sideways, or slinging the ball over someone's head out of bounds.  I dunno, the OC scheming up those Detroit Lions, Goff passes are getting dudes wide open in the middle of the field.  We don't ever see that.

[NewEra]

38 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Legendary is completing that pass to Shakir to put us up 4 with less than two minutes

 

He was fantastic, but he needed to make that throw to Shakir

Either that or the crosser to Diggs.  A TD would’ve given KC a lot of time…..and as you’ve pointed out several times, McD can’t stop elite QBs…..why would this have been any different.  
 

looking at the play with regards to time and score he should’ve dumped to Diggs.  Kept the clock moving- moved the chains and forced KC to call TOs

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BeastMaster said:

Legendary is completing that pass to Shakir to put us up 4 with less than two minutes

 

He was fantastic, but he needed to make that throw to Shakir

 

Did you want him to block for Dawkins too?

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Who mentioned anything about history (except for you)? You are creating a strawman argument.

 

What was said is that Allen played great. Period. That’s it.

 

Allen deserved the win. 

 

Diggs ruined it for him. Sherfield ruined it for him. Dawkins (on one play anyway) ruined it for him.

 

 

 

Says the guy who blames Allen for only 7 second half points and points to Klein (who gave up a grand total of TWO receptions to Kelce the entire game).

Quote where" I blamed Allen for 7 second half points".  I think you are reading into things a bit.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

This is one of the greatest plays he has ever made.

[Neo]

3 hours ago, RousseauRage said:

Yay...another loss where we can pretend he's the greatest 🙄

Absurd …..

 

I’ve been Bills fan for fifty years.   Traveled to SuperBowls and had season tickets.   He’s the best quarterback, arguably player, we’ve ever had.  He’s a first ballot hall of famer.   His team struggles against the Chiefs who are poised to become an all time great team in the same conversation with the Packers, Steelers, Cowboys and 49ers.   They, and only they, have Allen’s team’s number.  If you mean he’s not the greatest of all time, I’ll congratulate you for an astute grasp of the obvious but ask you who is.   If you mean he’s not good enough to win on any Sunday, at the top of his class, great in any meaningful definition of the word, I’ll not congratulate you, but I’ll forgive you for a profound lack of history, context, proportion and vocabulary.

Edited January 22 by Neo

[Nklaiste1]

If Allen just moved a bit in the pocket that's an easy touchdown pass to Shakir. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Edit - Or even blame Dawkins.

Here's the thing.  I don't blame Dawkins at all.  He got beat on that one play.  It happens.  When I and others call out that Dawkins got pushed back into Allen impacting the throw we're stating a fact as an explanation for why Allen missed the throw.  Dawkins had a fantastic season.  No one should judge him by one play because no one in he NFL is prefect on every play.

 

 

[RousseauRage]

7 minutes ago, Neo said:

Absurd …..

 

I’ve been Bills fan for fifty years.   Traveled to SuperBowls and had season tickets.   He’s the best quarterback, arguably player, we’ve ever had.  He’s a first ballot hall of famer.   His team struggles against the Chiefs who are poised to become an all time great team in the same conversation with the Packers, Steelers, Cowboys and 49ers.   They, and only they, have Allen’s team’s number.  If you mean he’s not the greatest of all time, I’ll congratulate you for an astute grasp of the obvious but ask you who is.   If you mean he’s not good enough to win on any Sunday, at the top of his class, great in any meaningful definition of the word, I’ll not congratulate you, but I’ll forgive you for a profound lack of history, context, proportion and vocabulary.

So much cope

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Here's the thing.  I don't blame Dawkins at all.  He got beat on that one play.  It happens.  When I and others call out that Dawkins got pushed back into Allen impacting the throw we're stating a fact as an explanation for why Allen missed the throw.  Dawkins had a fantastic season.  No one should judge him by one play because no one in he NFL is prefect on every play.

 

 

 

Agreed. But why so much heat on Josh (not from you) for not making the throw yet little heat on Dawkins for allowing the pressure to happen? It's as though Josh gets all the criticism and everyone else on offense almost gets a pass. It feels like 2&9 has been mentioned more on here post match than the Diggs and Sherfield drops, for example. Or the missed FG.