Broncos benching Wilson

[H2o]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Geno hasn't been great this year and Russ is 35 now.  

 

*Geno isn't leading any team to a Super Bowl, let alone 2 and winning 1.

Russ blew that 2nd one. The defense won the first. He was just a game manager. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

I'm not totally sure it's an all-out tank.

Not with the Chargers and Raiders as the only 2 teams left on the schedule.

22 minutes ago, H2o said:

Russ blew that 2nd one.

I thought the consensus was that not giving the ball to Marshawn blew it.

[The Frankish Reich]

58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

His pumping up Stidham is shameless.

Belichick saw no reason to hang onto Stidham. Neither did Josh McDaniels, preferring to bring back Jimmy G. even though Stidham performed decently in last year's 2-game "audition." I don't think he's horrible, but I do think he's a Kyle Allen at best.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Not with the Chargers and Raiders as the only 2 teams left on the schedule.

 

 

We were mainly talking about next season.  I also don't see the Broncos beating the Raiders in Las Vegas.

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

We were mainly talking about next season.  I also don't see the Broncos beating the Raiders in Las Vegas.

Got it. And I agree. Payton never got over Russell Wilson giving up 70 points earlier this season.

 

That's what I don't get about Payton, or why the Walmart guy hired him. What is the plan? I'm guessing it's like McD/Beane when they came in. They stuck with Tyrod and tried to field a competitive team that first year. But then they signaled "tank the rest of the season" by going to Peterman for that one unfortunate half. Then they were backdoored into the playoffs. Then they did get their QB in Allen the next year, and started off with another "we'll be kind of competitive before handing it over to Allen" concept by bringing in AJ McCarron. Then they changed their minds and cut him and started the season with ... Nathan Peterman at QB. Then they were forced to bite the bullet and go straight to Josh. It started working the next season.

 

Of course the Bills had their cap issues and they started dumping bad contracts like Dareus. But the Broncos situation looks, at least now, much worse. And they don't have the draft capital to get their Allen, even though this looks like a pretty good QB draft class. So ... I have no idea where they're going. Payton is no kid and I assume he doesn't have a Four Year Plan, but it's hard to see the Broncos fielding a good team before 2025 at the earliest, probably 2026 more realistically, when Payton is 62 years old.

 

Oh, and Happy 60th Birthday (tomorrow), Sean Payton. The more I see of you, the less I like.

[Punching Bag]

48 minutes ago, H2o said:

Russ blew that 2nd one. The defense won the first. He was just a game manager. 

Trent Dilfer did more in win for Ravens than Russ Wilson did in win for Seahawks.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I feel like the most hilarious, and weirdly possible, situation is Belichick and Russ both ending up in Vegas.

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Got it. And I agree. Payton never got over Russell Wilson giving up 70 points earlier this season.

 

That's what I don't get about Payton, or why the Walmart guy hired him. What is the plan? I'm guessing it's like McD/Beane when they came in. They stuck with Tyrod and tried to field a competitive team that first year. But then they signaled "tank the rest of the season" by going to Peterman for that one unfortunate half. Then they were backdoored into the playoffs. Then they did get their QB in Allen the next year, and started off with another "we'll be kind of competitive before handing it over to Allen" concept by bringing in AJ McCarron. Then they changed their minds and cut him and started the season with ... Nathan Peterman at QB. Then they were forced to bite the bullet and go straight to Josh. It started working the next season.

 

Of course the Bills had their cap issues and they started dumping bad contracts like Dareus. But the Broncos situation looks, at least now, much worse. And they don't have the draft capital to get their Allen, even though this looks like a pretty good QB draft class. So ... I have no idea where they're going. Payton is no kid and I assume he doesn't have a Four Year Plan, but it's hard to see the Broncos fielding a good team before 2025 at the earliest, probably 2026 more realistically, when Payton is 62 years old.

 

Oh, and Happy 60th Birthday (tomorrow), Sean Payton. The more I see of you, the less I like.

 

I don't compare it to the Bills.  

 

I would imagine Payton gave Wilson his shot.  That seemed to fail so it's on to Plan B, getting rid of Wilson.

I truly believe that's where they are and where they go from here is not worked out at all.

[H2o]

41 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I thought the consensus was that not giving the ball to Marshawn blew it.

Russ threw the pick on the goal line. It was a stupid pass. Stevie Wonder could see that.

[The Frankish Reich]

23 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Trent Dilfer did more in win for Ravens than Russ Wilson did in win for Seahawks.

Umm, they won 43-8.

Russ went 18-25, 206 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 123.8 passer rating.

Yes, the defense largely won it. But you might as well criticize Josh Allen for throwing for under 100 yards in our stomping of the Cowboys a couple weeks ago ...

11 minutes ago, H2o said:

Russ threw the pick on the goal line. It was a stupid pass. Stevie Wonder could see that.

It was a stupid play. But it came close to winning a Super Bowl. A Pats guy made a play.

Bottom line: Russ's Seahawks won 1 Super Bowl easily, and came within one play of winning another. Nothing to sneeze at.

[H2o]

7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Bottom line: Russ's Seahawks won 1 Super Bowl easily, and came within one play of winning another. Nothing to sneeze at.

But not because of Russ

[The Frankish Reich]

4 minutes ago, H2o said:

But not because of Russ

Well that's just silly. They made it through the playoffs and into the Super Bowl twice. Wilson performed very well overall in both, one a laugher win and one where they were 4th and goal at the 1 with time expiring. I guess Terry Bradshaw should give back his rings because his defenses were dominant.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Belichick saw no reason to hang onto Stidham. Neither did Josh McDaniels, preferring to bring back Jimmy G. even though Stidham performed decently in last year's 2-game "audition." I don't think he's horrible, but I do think he's a Kyle Allen at best.

 

Carr was benched with 2 games left in the Raiders season, then Carr was gone.  Stidham is bad. 

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

I feel like the most hilarious, and weirdly possible, situation is Belichick and Russ both ending up in Vegas.

 Can’t see Bill working for that cheap skate Davis 

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

 Can’t see Bill working for that cheap skate Davis 

 

That cheapskate gave a 10 year $10M a year guaranteed contract.

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

Russ blew that 2nd one. The defense won the first. He was just a game manager. 

 

I can't argue with that.  The first one was a solid team effort.  The 2nd one, he played well.  Even that final throw was a good one, it was just an excellent read and react by Malcolm Butler.

 

That was Pete and Bevell's fault.  I still can't believe it happened.  

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I can't argue with that.  The first one was a solid team effort.  The 2nd one, he played well.  Even that final throw was a good one, it was just an excellent read and react by Malcolm Butler.

 

That was Pete and Bevell's fault.  I still can't believe it happened.  

He played very well in the first one too - 18/25 for 206 yards and 2 TD throws; 8.24 ypa; 3 rushes for 26 yards; and no turnovers. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

There isn't a one of us that would tell a pro team ( Including the Bills) to go pound sand asking us to waive that kind of money.  " ok so bench me. I still get all my guaranteed money lol"

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

That cheapskate gave a 10 year $10M a year guaranteed contract.

“Gave “ it but never paid it …

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

45 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He played very well in the first one too - 18/25 for 206 yards and 2 TD throws; 8.24 ypa; 3 rushes for 26 yards; and no turnovers. 

 

Can't ask for more than that out of a 3rd year QB.  I couldn't recall the particulars, I just remember that defense.  

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Geno fell back to earth this year (under Pete) before he went out.  Wilson was paying better in Denver.  You saw that. 

 

 

They expressly benched him to avoid a potential injury payout next season if he is injured this season.  He would would be a massive cap hit if they cut him after this season ends. 

 

You don't believe that they are better off with Stidham to make the playoffs.  And since that is true, you can't conclude that he was benched because he was playing poorly. 

 

 

see above.  it absolutely is financial. otherwise there is no was you roll with Stidham when you may make the playoffs. 

that he’s not good enough to start for them next year or beyond is a non financial consideration. We can argue semantics if you want. Tyrod was similarly benched here because he was not good enough and it was financially risky to let the guy that’s not good enough to be there long term start short term based on his contract structure. 

[Saint Doug]

How many times has a opposing QB won over the Bills, only to be benched later in the season? We have 2 Wilsons and Jones. Who else?

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Saint Doug said:

How many times has anopposing QB won over the Bills, only to be benched later in the season? We have 2 Wilsons and Jones. Who else?

They have really faced  a Murderers Row of QBs this season 

[Mr. WEO]

52 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

that he’s not good enough to start for them next year or beyond is a non financial consideration. We can argue semantics if you want. Tyrod was similarly benched here because he was not good enough and it was financially risky to let the guy that’s not good enough to be there long term start short term based on his contract structure. 

 

Look Payton doesn't want him, we know that.  But he's not had an awful year and who are they going to bring in next year who is better?   Only 5 QBs have thrown more TDs They've gone from dead last to 16th in points scored.  As is typical for a Sean Payton team, the Defense sucks.  Lamar Jackson is putting up Tyrod Taylor numbers, but he has the best running Offense in the league (guys like Gus Edwards, Justice Hill and Keaton Mitchell have 17 TDs between them!) and the  top Defense on the field when he takes a break--and Jackson is a top MVP candidate!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bigduke6]

Russ is a weird dood.  hes not completely washed yet,  but hes not nearly worth that contract.   Broncos simply made a business decision.   Russ will land a starting gig someplace else next year.   i expect the NFLPA to get involved in this though.   cant imagine theyre happy with this.

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Look Payton doesn't want him, we know that.  But he's not had an awful year and who are they going to bring in next year who is better?   Only 5 QBs have thrown more TDs They've gone from dead last to 16th in points scored.  As is typical for a Sean Payton team, the Defense sucks.  Lamar Jackson is putting up Tyrod Taylor numbers, but he has the best running Offense in the league (guys like Gus Edwards, Justice Hill and Keaton Mitchell have 17 TDs between them!) and the  top Defense on the field when he takes a break--and Jackson is a top MVP candidate!

 

 

 

 

 

 

ya,  i still dont see all the love for Lamar,  especially as an MVP this season.   guy averages less than 2 total TDs per game.   thats an MVP?    i dont get it.   guy still cant pass consistently.   magic with his feet at times,  but 19 passing TDs?   dont see it.

[dakrider]

I wouldn't have been surprised if Payton benched him the last game maybe but not last 2.

[Mr. WEO]

49 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

Russ is a weird dood.  hes not completely washed yet,  but hes not nearly worth that contract.   Broncos simply made a business decision.   Russ will land a starting gig someplace else next year.   i expect the NFLPA to get involved in this though.   cant imagine theyre happy with this.

ya,  i still dont see all the love for Lamar,  especially as an MVP this season.   guy averages less than 2 total TDs per game.   thats an MVP?    i dont get it.   guy still cant pass consistently.   magic with his feet at times,  but 19 passing TDs?   dont see it.

 

he's certainly had an MVP season in the past.  but not this year.  Josh is an order of magnitude better than LJ. 

[Chicken Boo]

17 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

Russ is a weird dood.  hes not completely washed yet,  but hes not nearly worth that contract.   Broncos simply made a business decision.   Russ will land a starting gig someplace else next year.   i expect the NFLPA to get involved in this though.   cant imagine theyre happy with this.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/sean-payton-demands-his-qb-have-iron-grip-of-his-offense-russell-wilson-couldnt-so-hell-be-out-of-denver-065323397.html

 

A good read.  It's about more than the contract.  Payton is just a stubborn guy, stuck in his ways and refuses to adapt.  

 

A good coach will adjust his scheme to fit his players strengths, not hammer a square peg into a round hole.  

[Fan in Chicago]

What does this mean?

 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

12 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/sean-payton-demands-his-qb-have-iron-grip-of-his-offense-russell-wilson-couldnt-so-hell-be-out-of-denver-065323397.html

 

A good read.  It's about more than the contract.  Payton is just a stubborn guy, stuck in his ways and refuses to adapt.  

 

A good coach will adjust his scheme to fit his players strengths, not hammer a square peg into a round hole.  

 

Yes, the decision to severe the relationship with Russ goes beyond finances.

 

 

"This is the kind of player Payton wants at quarterback. Someone who has the ability to know his offense on a molecular level — calls, checks, route concepts, blocking, schedule, construction of the plan, etc. — then the focus to carry it all out with the repetitive efficiency of a Xerox machine. This is how Kyle Shanahan wants his offense. It’s how Sean McVay wants his offense. And it’s definitely how Payton wants his offense. When a quarterback isn’t getting that job done in an overwhelmingly high percentile of his drops, the clock begins ticking on his tenure. It’s how Jared Goff became Matthew Stafford. It’s how Jimmy Garoppolo became Trey Lance and Lance became Brock Purdy. And now it’s how Russell Wilson will become someone else manning the controls in Denver."

 

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

What does this mean?

 

 

 

God has his back and will present him with another opportunity.  

[Richard Noggin]

15 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/sean-payton-demands-his-qb-have-iron-grip-of-his-offense-russell-wilson-couldnt-so-hell-be-out-of-denver-065323397.html

 

A good read.  It's about more than the contract.  Payton is just a stubborn guy, stuck in his ways and refuses to adapt.  

 

A good coach will adjust his scheme to fit his players strengths, not hammer a square peg into a round hole.  

 

Great find. Fascinating read. Not sure every conclusion the author draws is entirely knowable, but still an awesome, if not subjective, glimpse behind the curtain. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

What does this mean?

 

 

God is making Subway put the 'Dangerous Russell Wilson Sangwich' back on the menu.

[Punching Bag]

Russel Wilson needs to get an agent who does more work in NFL.  He is primarily a baseball agent.

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/sean-payton-demands-his-qb-have-iron-grip-of-his-offense-russell-wilson-couldnt-so-hell-be-out-of-denver-065323397.html

 

A good read.  It's about more than the contract.  Payton is just a stubborn guy, stuck in his ways and refuses to adapt.  

 

A good coach will adjust his scheme to fit his players strengths, not hammer a square peg into a round hole.  

 

How do you adjust your scheme to a QB with horrible short range accuracy, limited movement skills at this stage and who can't see over the OL unless you drop him deep in the pocket? I am not sure what you run from there other than a low percentage chuck and duck scheme. I think what Payton has got out of Wilson this year numbers wise is remarkable based on his vastly reduced skillset.

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

How do you adjust your scheme to a QB with horrible short range accuracy, limited movement skills at this stage and who can't see over the OL unless you drop him deep in the pocket? I am not sure what you run from there other than a low percentage chuck and duck scheme. I think what Payton has got out of Wilson this year numbers wise is remarkable based on his vastly reduced skillset.

 

It starts with personnel.  Behind a strong running game, rollouts and play action?

 

They should have retained KJ Hamler as a deep threat option.  

[Ya Digg?]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Russel Wilson needs to get an agent who does more work in NFL.  He is primarily a baseball agent.

Why?? Guy is getting a guaranteed $39 million next year no matter what!

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

It starts with personnel.  Behind a strong running game, rollouts and play action?

 

They should have retained KJ Hamler as a deep threat option.  

 

People always say, rollout and play action when QBs are bad in the pocket. But you can't do that 30 or 40 times a game. Teams soon wise up. Eventually in the NFL it always comes down to can you play from the pocket. And for Wilson, the answer now, is not really.

[Chicken Boo]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

People always say, rollout and play action when QBs are bad in the pocket. But you can't do that 30 or 40 times a game. Teams soon wise up. Eventually in the NFL it always comes down to can you play from the pocket. And for Wilson, the answer now, is not really.

 

He may not be the absolute best from the pocket, but he can throw from the pocket.  

 

He's been a decent game manager this season and that may be all that he'll be going forward.  Now, it's all about finding the right fit.  

[Thrivefourfive]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:41 PM, bigduke6 said:

Russ is a weird dood.  hes not completely washed yet,  but hes not nearly worth that contract.   Broncos simply made a business decision.   Russ will land a starting gig someplace else next year.   i expect the NFLPA to get involved in this though.   cant imagine theyre happy with this.

ya,  i still dont see all the love for Lamar,  especially as an MVP this season.   guy averages less than 2 total TDs per game.   thats an MVP?    i dont get it.   guy still cant pass consistently.   magic with his feet at times,  but 19 passing TDs?   dont see it.

Jackson won the MVP this afternoon. I agree, I don’t think he’s the Most Valuable Player.. even on his own team. But beating SF in San Jose and destroying the Dolphins with 300+ and 5 TDs to clinch 1 seed. Yeah, that’s over.