OT - Isiah Mckenzie and Tony Brown suspended for remainder of the season

[Utah John]

9 minutes ago, Utah John said:

With the likelihood that McKenzie was a source for the hit article on McDermott, the chances of the Bills giving McK a PS slot seem slim. He's a talented guy in a league full of talented guys that don't rock the boat.  Only the true superstars get to be jerks and still keep playing, until they fade into being merely really good, at which point they're expendable too.

Based on subsequent posts, I have to withdraw my comment about McK's take on McD.  

 

The point remains however that McK is a talented player in a league full of talented players.  He always seemed like a loudmouth, not reading from the same script as other players (see:  Allen, Josh; Dawkins, Dion; Morse, Mitch) That's fun for sportswriters who must get bored writing the same crap over and over, but it breaks the harmony inside the building.

[Irv]

McKenzie's hands of stone registered with the FBI as deadly weapons.  I'm guessing at least one felony.  
 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Irv

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, Irv said:

McKenzie's hands of stone registered with the FBI as deadly weapons.  I'm guessing at last one felony.  

 

Sure hands of stones caught all of those balls against Cheats.   

 

Irv Weinstein would embarrassed to have same first name.

[JohnNord]

8 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Did you read the article?

 

He "effusive[ly] praise[d]" McD.

 

 

 

Dunne did include a positive quote from Dirty but that doesn’t necessarily mean everything he said was positive.  Dunne could have used the positive quote as red herring.  

 

Regardless, the Bills know what the ceiling of McKenzie is and I think they are looking for more from a WR5/WR6

[Utah John]

7 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

He was not moved out for Shakir or Kincaid.  Kincaid was not even signed.  The Bills let him go because they overpaid Hardy.

And they got Harty because Hines got hurt in the jet ski accident.  Assuming Hines returns in 2024 and is as capable as he was last season, does that mean Harty will depart?

4 minutes ago, Irv said:

McKenzie's hands of stone registered with the FBI as deadly weapons.  I'm guessing at last one felony.  

Irv, I have to ask why your photo is of Clip Smith and not Irv Weinstein.

[Peter]

Just now, JohnNord said:

Dunne did include a positive quote from Dirty but that doesn’t necessarily mean everything he said was positive.  Dunne could have used the positive quote as red herring.  

 

Regardless, the Bills know what the ceiling of McKenzie is and I think they are looking for more from a WR5/WR6

 

Nevertheless, we should not jump to conclusions. It seems like people who did not like McKenzie were quick to paint him as a bad guy.

 

P.S. I also do not consider it a "hit piece" to the extent it was truthful. Just my two cents.

[JohnNord]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Dunne has been in hiding but will occasionally respond politely to some of the criticism.  He doesn’t seem to be reveling in the controversy.  

 

 

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Peter said:

 

Nevertheless, we should not jump to conclusions. It seems like people who did not like McKenzie were quick to paint him as a bad guy.

 

P.S. I also do not consider it a "hit piece" to the extent it was truthful. Just my two cents.

 

May ex-Bills players have said it is not truthful.  

[billsfan89]

4 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

He was not moved out for Shakir or Kincaid.  Kincaid was not even signed.  The Bills let him go because they overpaid Hardy.

 

I know Hardy was the guy they 1 to 1 replaced Mac with but I should have been more clear that it ended up working out as it paved the way for Shakir and Kincaid to get the snaps. Even though Hardy is a massive overpay I do think he is a better player, he just isn't putting up massive numbers due to lack of volume. I think if he had to take on a bigger role like Mac did last year he would produce better than Mac. Still would have preferred they spent the money elsewhere as he is an overpaid decent punt returner at this point. 

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Utah John said:

And they got Harty because Hines got hurt in the jet ski accident.  Assuming Hines returns in 2024 and is as capable as he was last season, does that mean Harty will depart?

Irv, I have to ask why your photo is of Clip Smith and not Irv Weinstein.

The Bills wanted to upgrade from McKenzie which is why the signed Harty.  The thought was that he could take a step forward and play WR3.  They put a lot of confidence in him, and it didn’t really work out.  
 

Harty’s been a disappointment, yet his numbers are slightly better.

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, Utah John said:

And they got Harty because Hines got hurt in the jet ski accident.  Assuming Hines returns in 2024 and is as capable as he was last season, does that mean Harty will depart?

Irv, I have to ask why your photo is of Clip Smith and not Irv Weinstein.

https://web.archive.org/web/20101217035621/http://www.lockport-ny.com/Features/clip.htm

"Why don't more golden retriever owners call their dogs Molson?"

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

Those are league suspensions; this is a team suspension. Apparently, Irsay has established a higher standard of behavior than that of the NFL. 🙂

 

 

They must have been trying to peddle Irsay's prescriptions when the fisticuffs broke out.

[Irv]

4 minutes ago, Utah John said:

And they got Harty because Hines got hurt in the jet ski accident.  Assuming Hines returns in 2024 and is as capable as he was last season, does that mean Harty will depart?

Irv, I have to ask why your photo is of Clip Smith and not Irv Weinstein.

I got tired of the Irv photo. I am also a dichotomy.

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

May ex-Bills players have said it is not truthful.  

100% the article was an editorial and Dunne went too hard on his take using personal anecdotes to add credibility to his opinion. 
 

As a result he’s known as the guy that wrote a “hit piece” and he’s currently hiding from the criticism on Twitter and commenting behind a paywall.  
 

It says a lot

8 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Nevertheless, we should not jump to conclusions. It seems like people who did not like McKenzie were quick to paint him as a bad guy.

 

P.S. I also do not consider it a "hit piece" to the extent it was truthful. Just my two cents.

Ok that’s fine.  But to your point, just because Dunne chose to include a positive quote does not absolve him like you are trying to do.

 

But to your point, from everything he’s said publicly about McDermott and vice versa, I think the two have a good relationship.  

[Peter]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

May ex-Bills players have said it is not truthful.  

 

Even McD confirmed the 9/11 speech. 

 

Has anyone denied that McD took over the play calling during the infamous 13 seconds game?

 

Has anyone disputed the story regarding Chad Hall? Of course not. Prior to the article, some people here thought that Diggs was unhappy that Chad Hall left and was not promoted. Now we know why he left and nobody has denied what was written in the article about McD and Hall.

 

Another quote was that McD would make Dorsey the fall guy. That is exactly what happened.  

 

All I have seen is some players have defended McD generally by saying he has a good character. I am not aware of anyone disputing specifics facts that were set forth in the article. Perhaps I did not see specific factual rebuttals. If I am mistaken about this, please link specific factual rebuttals by any of the ex-Bills players (or current players).

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Thought it was interesting as Lil Dirty is still one of our guys.  Really interesting to know what happened there.

 

 

 

Whoaoa!  I noticed that McKenzie had been a healthy scratch last week vs. Pittsburgh, and wondered if it was a benching because he fumbled against the Bengals

 

With the Bills, McKenzie presented himself as a 'clean' guy with a HUUUUUGE mouth - doesn't drink, no drugs, "if it happens after midnight I don't know 'cuz I'm not there", talks endless trash to everyone all day every day, so intent to get back to the Bills in time for a Monday meeting after a bye that after his flight was cancelled, he flew into Pittsburgh and got a random fan to drive him from Pittsburgh to Buffalo at 1 am.

 

PEDs maybe?  I know pro athletes 'on the fringe' can be desperate for any edge that will help them "get right" and keep them on the field.

[FilthyBeast]

Little 'useless' McKenzie....once a bum, always a bum.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Take this with a grain of salt, but I did some lurking in Colts fan spaces and the rumor is the two were involved in a pretty nasty bar fight last week. 

 

Things change sometimes, but at least when he was here McKenzie was pretty up-front that he didn't drink and didn't do illicit drugs.

 

And when you're 5'7", 180 lbs (maybe - dripping wet with cleats on), getting into a bar fight seems like a Bad Move.

 

At least Tony Brown is 6'0 and 200.

[JohnNord]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Whoaoa!  I noticed that McKenzie had been a healthy scratch last week vs. Pittsburgh, and wondered if it was a benching because he fumbled against the Bengals

 

With the Bills, McKenzie presented himself as a 'clean' guy with a HUUUUUGE mouth - doesn't drink, no drugs, "if it happens after midnight I don't know 'cuz I'm not there", talks endless trash to everyone all day every day, so intent to get back to the Bills in time for a Monday meeting after a bye that after his flight was cancelled, he flew into Pittsburgh and got a random fan to drive him from Pittsburgh to Buffalo at 1 am.

 

PEDs maybe?  I know pro athletes 'on the fringe' can be desperate for any edge that will help them "get right" and keep them on the field.

If it were PED’s wouldn’t the discipline come from the league and not the team?

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Things change sometimes, but at least when he was here McKenzie was pretty up-front that he didn't drink and didn't do illicit drugs.

 

And when you're 5'7", 180 lbs (maybe - dripping wet with cleats on), getting into a bar fight seems like a Bad Move.

 

At least Tony Brown is 6'0 and 200.

Fighting or repeatedly breaking rules like showing up to practice seems like it would be a one game suspension.

 

The fact they are suspended for the final 3 games of the season by the team is almost unprecedented.  

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, FilthyBeast said:

Little 'useless' McKenzie....once a bum, always a bum.

 

Figures a Miami fan would say that, seeing as how he hung up 8 receptions for 112 yds and an 84 yd PR for a TD one year and 9 receptions for 100 yds in another against your favored team.

[Matt_In_NH]

ANyone up for some barbecue?

[Peter]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

ANyone up for some barbecue?

 

FWIW - I have been to his BBQ place down here in Miami. It is excellent and has received very good reviews.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I'm always not shocked when Lil' Dummy does Lil' Dummy things.

 

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

If it were PED’s wouldn’t the discipline come from the league and not the team?

 

If it was a league test yes, league first

If they were caught using PEDs in or around the facility or team road trips ??

I don't know

 

22 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Fighting or repeatedly breaking rules like showing up to practice seems like it would be a one game suspension.

 

Depends on the circumstances, I would think?  How severe it was? 

Enemkpali got 4 games for breaking Geno Smith's jaw in a locker room fight, but I think that came from the league and not the team

 

22 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

The fact they are suspended for the final 3 games of the season by the team is almost unprecedented.  

 

Usually a team would just cut a player in their circs (like the Jets immediately cut Enemkpali).  They're both bottom of the roster, 1 year league-minimum contract guys with no dead money to speak of thus no cap implications to sending the Turk.

 

I wonder if the Colts figure cutting them would allow a team the Colts are about to play, to pick them up and harvest useful inside info?

 

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Isaiah was always a bit of a lose canon, I can definitely see him saying something stuipd, counter productive.

 

You don't typically suspend guys multiple games for running their mouths.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Beck Water

[JohnNord]

Former Buffalo Bills “captain for a game” IK Enemkpali

[kota]

now you know why they didn't retain him.

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, kota said:

now you know why they didn't retain him.

 

Oh, Stuff.

 

McKenzie had performance issues on the field.  They gave him the chance to earn a role as a primary slot, and he didn't make the grade.  They thought they had the PR/KR duties covered by Hines, and they thought Harty was an upgrade as the #4/gadget guy.

 

 

[Beck Water]

FWIW: I thought I remembered something so I looked it up.

 

Back In Da Day when he was in college playing for Alabama, Tony Brown was sent home from the Cotton Bowl for starting a fight during practice with a DL

(maybe, when you're 6'0" 200 don't start fights with 6'6" 320 lb guys?)

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2603791-tony-brown-reportedly-sent-home-from-cotton-bowl-for-violation-of-team-rules

[jlgarsh]

58 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Things change sometimes, but at least when he was here McKenzie was pretty up-front that he didn't drink and didn't do illicit drugs.

 

And when you're 5'7", 180 lbs (maybe - dripping wet with cleats on), getting into a bar fight seems like a Bad Move.

 

At least Tony Brown is 6'0 and 200.

He could have been the DD and been dragged into a fight. Been there in my younger days.

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Dunne did include a positive quote from Dirty but that doesn’t necessarily mean everything he said was positive.  Dunne could have used the positive quote as red herring.  

 

Regardless, the Bills know what the ceiling of McKenzie is and I think they are looking for more from a WR5/WR6

 

They spent a lot of money on Sherfield and Sharty and got WAY less production than McKittrick. 

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

They spent a lot of money on Sherfield and Sharty and got WAY less production than McKittrick. 

 

McKenzie also led a hand on defense for a game.  I just wish he did not try to be media star when he was playing. 

[JohnNord]

10 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

They spent a lot of money on Sherfield and Sharty and got WAY less production than McKittrick. 

You make it sounds like it was a mistake to move on.  They gave Harty a decent contract which clearly was a miss from a production standpoint.  The difference is he doesn’t make the mental mistakes that McKenzie did.
 

Sherrield was signed to the vet minimum - not sure where the “lot of money” comes from.  He hasn’t had the receptions but has helped in the run game and special teams.

 

Shakir will finish the year with stats close to what McKenzie had in 2022.  He more than picked up the slack and again…doesn’t make the metal mistakes.

Overall it was a good decision to move on from McKenzie.  

[uticaclub]

I like the one rumor that they shot a bald eagle 😂

[BananaB]

The show that McKenzie was on last year, was the host the guy that wrote the article on McD?

[Nitro]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Dude has had a rough season.

 

1. 1st day of FA tweets out "C'Mon Beane do something" 

2. Beane signs his replacement first thing. 

3. Gets released. Says he's looking for an opportunity. 

4. Signs with Colts

5. Gets beat out for starting slot spot by Downs.

6. Now, Suspended by team. 

 

 

He was their primary punt returner and doing a decent job at it.

[Albany,n.y.]

4 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

Wild speculation on my part, but is there any chance they were placing bets on games? And the Colts wanted to get the jump on the NFL suspending them?

I believe that would have immediately become a league issue.  

[Low Positive]

46 minutes ago, BananaB said:

The show that McKenzie was on last year, was the host the guy that wrote the article on McD?

Yes

[Albany,n.y.]

I think he went all Josh McDaniels on a teammate who criticized the Bills.  😄

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

They spent a lot of money on Sherfield and Sharty and got WAY less production than McKittrick. 

 

I don't think Sherfield was intended as a McKenzie replacement.  He replaced Kumerow.  Almost as good ST player who is a better WR than Kumerow.  He's not a vet minimum contract, but not much more.

 

Deonte Harty, yeah, they signed him thinking they were getting a fast McKenzie-quality gadget guy who can actually track the ball and go deep.  They paid him significantly more than McKenzie was due thinking he was an upgrade.  So far....he's not as productive, but Harty has been seeing the field a lot less than McKenzie did last year, mostly due to Kincaid and Shakir.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Nitro said:

He was their primary punt returner and doing a decent job at it.

 

McKenzie like 16th in the league for PR yardage (23 returns)

He did muff one in the last game he played tho

 

Harty 18th so not too far behind, and actually higher Y/R than McK (9.9 Y/R vs 8.9)

 

Can't really make the argument Harty is "less productive" as a ST guy especially as the Bills no longer trusted McK in the PR role.

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

You make it sounds like it was a mistake to move on.  They gave Harty a decent contract which clearly was a miss from a production standpoint.  The difference is he doesn’t make the mental mistakes that McKenzie did.
 

Sherrield was signed to the vet minimum - not sure where the “lot of money” comes from.  He hasn’t had the receptions but has helped in the run game and special teams.

 

Shakir will finish the year with stats close to what McKenzie had in 2022.  He more than picked up the slack and again…doesn’t make the metal mistakes.

Overall it was a good decision to move on from McKenzie.  

 

Sherfield is getting more than vet minimum, but not a lot more.

 

It was time to move on from McKenzie.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

57 minutes ago, BananaB said:

The show that McKenzie was on last year, was the host the guy that wrote the article on McD?

 

Yeah, it was called the Isaiah McKenzie show but Ty Dunne was 100% running it and leading the convo