Patty is not happy... Boo Hoo!

[ExiledInIllinois]

19 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

The BFLo Bills made the KC Chiefs cry!

 

No good deed goes unpunished! We'll pay for this! But, I don't give a damn tootin'! Can this week last forever!

 

🤣

 

Ain't skeered!

 

[DrDawkinstein]

42 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

Props to Kelce tho who handled it like a true Pro. Shook hands, and even traded jerseys with Kincaid.

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Andy Reid already changing his tune a little bit. Probably saw that tape and said oh hell.  Probably also got a warning from the NFL about talking bad about officiating lol.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/chiefs-news-andy-reid-admits-he-s-wrong-about-kadarius-toney-s-penalty/ar-AA1llEdQ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f44d31c0d0d5497a93c493007c76041f&ei=12

 

 

Well then.  He finally gets the warning he wanted.

 

I hope he gets a fine

 

13 hours ago, OldNMBillsFan said:

I have to wonder if Andy told Mahomes "when its grim be the Grim Weeper"?

 

Oh, that's fantastic!  Right up there with "Paddy Melt!"

Edited December 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but there was a ridiculous panel on NFL Live talking about the play and the one guy showed multiple plays where Toney was also lined up offside yesterday as justification for why the penalty should NOT have been called. I mean, really? What color is the sky in these people’s world? Geeez! 

 

You gotta wonder what that guy teaches his kids as a father.  Probably teaches them, if you shoplift the Starburst candies 7 times and the Security Guard stops you on the 8th time when you take 2, the Bad Mean Security Guard shouldn't have stopped you.

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Dan Orlovsky. Basically saying if they allowed it all game, why suddenly throw the flag there at the end. 
Maybe they just got sick of his bullcrap?

 

There was the Chiefs opening game against the Lions where their RT, Jamaal Taylor, was lining up in the backfield all game and false starting almost every snap.  Even that noted Chiefs fan Cris Collinsworth was commenting on it.

 

It was finally called on 4th and 20 on the Chiefs last drive, which gave the Chiefs an extra play at 4th and 25 instead of "game over".  I bet Orlovsky had no problem with it being called then.  Fortunately the Lions still won.

 

It's totally screwed up logic.  If you break the rules or break the law habitually, that does not give you a mandate to continue to break rules/laws.  Those responsible for enforcement can still come after you on the 4th or the 24th or the 204th instance and it's still "on you" for breaking them.

 

But that's how KC lives, actually.  They have a RT who habitually lines up in an illegal formation and false starts.  He's only been called for it 7 or 8 times all season.  The focus, and the problem IMO, isn't "why call him for it now?" it's that it wasn't called the rest of the time.

 

They do it on defense, too - habitual DH and DPI and hands to the face, called only a fraction of the time they commit those fouls

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[PatsFanNH]

28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Props to Kelce tho who handled it like a true Pro. Shook hands, and even traded jerseys with Kincaid.

He is like I have 2 rings, a billionaire GF and life is good.. who wouldn’t be happy being him? lol 

 

That said this weekend I see them beating my Pats 45-3 with the chiefs getting every little call even a new one called “personal foul 15 yards for making Mahomes cry automatic first down!” 

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

Dan seems a little off about this, sure Toney is definitely awful about this but maybe one of these is close to as bad as the one he gets called on, the rest weren't, and if anything he finally got burnt on something he should have been called on all game.

 

His "logic" is weird.  You're right that Toney was more egregious about the called instance than most of the rest. 

But if you break a law repeatedly, it does not confer an obligation on the police officers to continue to overlook it.  They can stop you for any instance, and "but officer, I've been driving through this intersection the same way for months now" is not a defense or a justification.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

27 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Props to Kelce tho who handled it like a true Pro. Shook hands, and even traded jerseys with Kincaid.

he had JA's back with the 💩 calls in the eagles game. I have no issues with kelce. he's a hell of football player, one of the greats. still don't want to see another lateral like that when/if we meet again.

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

He is like I have 2 rings, a billionaire GF and life is good.. who wouldn’t be happy being him? lol 

 

That said this weekend I see them beating my Pats 45-3 with the chiefs getting every little call even a new one called “personal foul 15 yards for making Mahomes cry automatic first down!” 

 

I may be too hopeful, but I'm actually hoping it goes the other way.  That the refs are going to be "OK, so you're complaining that we AREN'T calling all of the penalties you actually commit, LETSGOOOOO!!!!!!!!!  If the Pats benefit from 17 illegal formation and false start penalties on their RT and 7 Offside penalties on Toney it would not make me sad at all.

 

Edit to add while you're at it, call the DH and DPI and hands to the face and so forth, and calling an occasional OPI for the picks would be fine.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[PatsFanNH]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I may be too hopeful, but I'm actually hoping it goes the other way.  That the refs are going to be "OK, so you're complaining that we AREN'T calling all of the penalties you actually commit, LETSGOOOOO!!!!!!!!!  If the Pats benefit from 17 illegal formation and false start penalties on their RT and 7 Offside penalties on Toney it would not make me sad at all.

I hope you are right, but Mahomes is the face of the NFL right now and well I see the NFL telling the refs to make him happy again.. very easy to do on a game no one outside of NE and KC will be watching.. and well the Pats suck this year so no one will bat an eyebrow at bad calls going against them. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

His "logic" is weird.  You're right that Toney was more egregious about the called instance than most of the rest. 

But if you break a law repeatedly, it does not confer an obligation on the police officers to continue to overlook it.  They can stop you for any instance, and "but officer, I've been driving through this intersection the same way for months now" is not a defense or a justification.

+1

 

But it's the sign of the times very much more w/Millennials & Zoomers.  I remember one pre-school teacher my son (Zoomer) had. She said: "He's (our son) like Monty Hall, everything is 'Let's Make a Deal.' 😆 

 

😕😞 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

That said this weekend I see them beating my Pats 45-3 with the chiefs getting every little call even a new one called “personal foul 15 yards for making Mahomes cry automatic first down!” 

 

Welcome to the world Brady built.

[PatsFanNH]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Welcome to the world Brady built.

Hey! Brady didn’t cry he whined!! There is a difference! Lmao

 

 

[stosh64]

25 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

He is like I have 2 rings, a billionaire GF and life is good.. who wouldn’t be happy being him? lol 

 

That said this weekend I see them beating my Pats 45-3 with the chiefs getting every little call even a new one called “personal foul 15 yards for making Mahomes cry automatic first down!” 

Coming from a fan of the team that literally had new rules made up to help them is just extra 'special'

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

Hey! Brady didn’t cry he whined!! There is a difference! Lmao

 

 

 

Oh he cried. And shouted, and shrieked, and wailed, and sobbed, and screamed, and gnashed, and sniveled. And yes, whined.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Man with No Name said:

Did i miss it, or did they NOT show where he was relative to that magic blue line on the play where the penalty was called? 

 

Dan is out of his mind trying to defend KC on that call.  A KC fan posted video trying to prove the flag shouldnt have been thrown.  It was like a "see Toney checked with the ref."  What the video showed is Toney looking at the ref and pointing for the check then turned his head back forward and continued walking forward to his spot.  He never got confirmation from the ref and he wasn't even set before he checked.  It was so dumb.  There is no defending cry baby KC here.  It was a legit call.

 

I'll see if I can find this video again and post it.  He wasnt even set when he checked.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Scott7975

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Dan is out of his mind trying to defend KC on that call.  A KC fan posted video trying to prove the flag shouldnt have been thrown.  It was like a "see Toney checked with the ref."  What the video showed is Toney looking at the ref and pointing for the check then turned his head back forward and continued walking forward to his spot.  He never got confirmation from the ref and he wasn't even set before he checked.  It was so dumb.  There is no defending cry baby KC here.  It was a legit call.

 

Get the name right.  They're now the "Kansas City Beefs"

[PatsFanNH]

7 minutes ago, stosh64 said:

Coming from a fan of the team that literally had new rules made up to help them is just extra 'special'

Help us? You talking about tackling low on QBs? The Pats didn’t push for that rule the NFL just did it. But if anything we had rules made or I forced harder to stop the patriots.. like illegal contact downfield.. (Colts whined about that in a playoff game, still lost the next year lol) or using a lineman as an eligible receiver  without the other team knowing is now illegal. that one was created because the Ravens whined it was unfair it was legal.  So you’re right a lot were created because of the Pats, but not to help them but actually the opposite. 

[Scott7975]

here is is.  Wasnt the one I originally saw but same film.  Ref never acknowledged either from what I saw.

 

 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

here is is.  Wasnt the one I originally saw but same film.  Ref never acknowledged either from what I saw.

 

 

 

Looks to me as though he looks at the ref and points before he's actually set, then looks away towards the ball before the ref has a chance to respond.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Looks to me as though he looks at the ref and points before he's actually set, then looks away towards the ball before the ref has a chance to respond.

 

And even after he points and looks back, he then proceeds to take another step forward!

[Beck Water]

36 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And even after he points and looks back, he then proceeds to take another step forward!

 

Yes - while his head is turned looking at the ball, not the ref.  An example of "form over function" and "going through the motions".

Edited December 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[Scott7975]

37 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Looks to me as though he looks at the ref and points before he's actually set, then looks away towards the ball before the ref has a chance to respond.

 

34 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And even after he points and looks back, he then proceeds to take another step forward!

Exactly 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

He is like I have 2 rings, a billionaire GF and life is good.. who wouldn’t be happy being him? lol 

 

That said this weekend I see them beating my Pats 45-3 with the chiefs getting every little call even a new one called “personal foul 15 yards for making Mahomes cry automatic first down!” 

Would not be surprised if it goes the other way with all the ***** they threw at the refs after the game, it wasn't just this crew they basically called them all out.

[OldNMBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Would not be surprised if it goes the other way with all the ***** they threw at the refs after the game, it wasn't just this crew they basically called them all out.

I hope Mahomes gets Jerry Hughes'ed for a couple seasons.

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

here is is.  Wasnt the one I originally saw but same film.  Ref never acknowledged either from what I saw.

 

 

 

Toney looks at the ref, turns back to look at the ball and takes 2 little steps forward.

 

This makes it worse.  Even if the ref said he was good, Toney then jumped forward.  If I'm the ref and I give him a nod saying he's good and then see him take those steps forward, I'm even more mad.

 

The WR is supposed to look at the ref and confirm when they're settled in their spot.  Toney looks even more like an idiot now.

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Toney looks at the ref, turns back to look at the ball and takes 2 little steps forward.

 

This makes it worse.  Even if the ref said he was good, Toney then jumped forward.  If I'm the ref and I give him a nod saying he's good and then see him take those steps forward, I'm even more mad.

 

The WR is supposed to look at the ref and confirm when they're settled in their spot.  Toney looks even more like an idiot now.

That's like asking your girlfriend if she's mad before your girl catches you in bed with another woman and holding her to her original statement. 

 

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

That's like asking your girlfriend if she's mad before your girl catches you in bed with another woman and holding her to her original statement.

 

Not bad analogy.

[Draconator]

 

[FilthyBeast]

I've pondered this Mahomes situation for a while now and quite frankly it reads as pure entitlement and almost adds fuel to the conspiracy theories in that his very public outburst was like 'That wasn't the script and we were supposed to win' type of deal towards the NFL and referees.

 

Either way this team better hope they don't see the Chiefs again in the playoffs if they get there or I fear it will be a repeat of 2020/2021.

[Goin Breakdown]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

His "logic" is weird.  You're right that Toney was more egregious about the called instance than most of the rest. 

But if you break a law repeatedly, it does not confer an obligation on the police officers to continue to overlook it.  They can stop you for any instance, and "but officer, I've been driving through this intersection the same way for months now" is not a defense or a justification.

I agree with this. What it has me thinking is why are the refs letting KC get away with having players line illegally?  Toney Offside more that one play and the RT always way behind the line. KC is pissed because the Refs let them get away with this crap and then "now the don't". It's bull crap. Every team should do as LC does then and scrap all the rules. 
 

[QCity]

Broncos DC Vance Joseph didn’t just beat Patrick Mahomes. He didn’t just beat the Chiefs. He broke them.

 

I wish this guy wrote for the Bills, he has a way with words.

 

 

[goldenboy81]

Patty Melt

[Punching Bag]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:12 PM, Beck Water said:

 

Your math is correct.  Average of 63.4 offensive snaps per game so 127 combined for both teams.

 

One reason offensive Offside is relatively rare on a WR is that for a WR, it's a "things you learn in PeeWee Football" level mistake.  WR who are outside, distant from the ball, learn to check with the LJ.  WR who are closer to the ball, learn to check where they are relative to the ball.

 

Now for OL, there's a different story.  On some teams, the OTs "Chiefly" line up too far in the backfield, "illegal formation", so often they must be being coached to do that and taking the viewpoint they'll do it until and unless they're called for it early and often.

 

Ravens and Chiefs have followed Cheats lead.

[Ralonzo]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:38 PM, Beck Water said:

 

It’s a “partnership” with the Refs for Andy Reid.  And Toney was only an “inch or two” off sides (but blocking the ref’s view of the ball)

 

Well All Righty Then

 

I would have been perfectly happy if the Zebras had thrown three flags on the play.

 

One for the Offside, one for the illegal formation on the Chiefs RT, one for the pick play.

The difference on the one flagged and the others Orlovsky referenced was Toneys hat was fully forward of the center’s. The others, his foot is even but the hat looks still a shade behind the center’s.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

[Scott7975]

8 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

I've pondered this Mahomes situation for a while now and quite frankly it reads as pure entitlement and almost adds fuel to the conspiracy theories in that his very public outburst was like 'That wasn't the script and we were supposed to win' type of deal towards the NFL and referees.

 

Either way this team better hope they don't see the Chiefs again in the playoffs if they get there or I fear it will be a repeat of 2020/2021.

 

Yeah you probably had more to ponder what to say after all the crap you spew around here and both your teams lost yesterday.  Your favorite team lost in uglier fashion than any McDermott team ever did.  Have to actually spell that out now because your team has a McD as well.

[BritBill]

13 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Not bad analogy.

 

Certainly not the worst analogy we've heard about this week.

[2003Contenders]

A few things for all the Chiefs fans and Reid/Mahomes apologists (in the fashion of the old ESPN series, "5 Reasons You Can't Blame the Refs for the Chiefs Losing to the Bills")...

 

1. The off-sides on Toney ABSOLUTELY was a penalty. It wasn't even close. It's not like his toe was across the line -- literally his whole body was across.

 

2. That penalty ABSOLUTELY could have been a reason for the outcome of the play. Let's not forget that it was Toney who caught the lateral and ran the ball in for a TD. I do not think it is crazy to believe that his illegal head-start played a role in his ability to complete that play.

 

3. It is not like the refs were trying to screw the Chiefs over after the result of the play. The flag came out immediately -- before Mahomes even threw the pass, before Kelce made the catch, before Kelce lateralled the ball to Toney, and before Toney ran into the endzone.

 

4. Furthermore, this was not the last play of the game/drive. The Chiefs still had 3 more plays to try to at least get a first down.

 

5. Even if the play stood, the Bills' offense would have had over a minute and all 3 timeouts to respond. I like their odds there with Josh Allen.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

A few things for all the Chiefs fans and Reid/Mahomes apologists (in the fashion of the old ESPN series, "5 Reasons You Can't Blame the Refs for the Chiefs Losing to the Bills")...

 

1. The off-sides on Toney ABSOLUTELY was a penalty. It wasn't even close. It's not like his toe was across the line -- literally his whole body was across.

 

2. That penalty ABSOLUTELY could have been a reason for the outcome of the play. Let's not forget that it was Toney who caught the lateral and ran the ball in for a TD. I do not think it is crazy to believe that his illegal head-start played a role in his ability to complete that play.

 

3. It is not like the refs were trying to screw the Chiefs over after the result of the play. The flag came out immediately -- before Mahomes even threw the pass, before Kelce made the catch, before Kelce lateralled the ball to Toney, and before Toney ran into the endzone.

 

4. Furthermore, this was not the last play of the game/drive. The Chiefs still had 3 more plays to try to at least get a first down.

 

5. Even if the play stood, the Bills' offense would have had over a minute and all 3 timeouts to respond. I like their odds there with Josh Allen.

 

Really well put.  Mahomes was carrying on as though the flag was a walk-off loss.  Instead he got a repeat of the down, and 2 more downs, three tries to convert, AND if the play had stood, the Bills did still have time, timeouts, and Josh Allen.

 

Toney didn't just catch the lateral.  Kelce was open because in a pretty blatant pick play (my opinion) Toney wiped out the defender who was covering Kelce.  That's a penalty, too.

 

And, as usual, the Chiefs RT was lined up in an illegal formation well into the backfield.

 

There could have been three separate flags on that play.