Per Benjamin Allbright, McDermott's "seat is warm"

[Wayne Arnold]

52 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

So you got nothing then, other than “maybes?” 

Maybe Beane sees the limitations in Josh Allen as well and tries to trade him for a package of picks to draft Caleb Williams?  We don’t know that.

It’s silly.

Everything that Beane has said publicly has been in full support of McDermott and the two have worked together closely from Day Any failure of McDermott is also a reflection on Beane.  

 

lol Beane is not going to criticize and/or reprimand McDermott in public, genius.

[theRalph]

Dick Jauron with a better roster.

[JohnNord]

9 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Sorry bro facts don't care about feelings. 

 

I'm not constructing a narrative, simply stating the obvious. Marrone sucked, I'm glad he flamed out of the league. But the fact is McD had the same record in 2017 as Marrone did in 2014, and by virtue of how the AFC standings fell, McDermott made the playoffs with that record and Marrone didn't. 

 

Still waiting for you to tell me what part of that isn't true. 

 

Don't worry, I'll wait. I've got all day. 

You’re so desperate to try to discredit McDermott you’re now making stuff up.  
 

#1 Your logic implies that all records are equal.  So by your definition, the SB winning Giants teams that went 9-7 were no better than the 2014 or the 2017 Bills team?  They just got lucky to make the playoffs that season?   That’s where your “facts” are silly.

#2 Your logic assuming the rosters are

You’re also overlooking the rosters of the 2014 team vs. 2017 team.   These were different teams completely.  The 2014 roster

had one of the top defenses in the NFL and was thought of to be ready to contend for the playoffs. The 2017 roster was largely considered to be a “tank job.”  Outside of Shady and maybe a rookie Trey White, the team was largely devoid of talent.  

So again?  Which is more impressive going 9-7 with a good roster that was expected to compete and missing the playoffs?  Or going 9-7 with one of the worst rosters in the league and actually making the playoffs?   That’s why your comparisons are completely off.  

 

Obviously, the line between winning and losing is razor thin in the NFL.  You need to have some bounces and luck go your way.   But to say 9-7 = 9-7 is simply ignoring nuance (and the reality) involved in these conversations. 

 

6 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

lol Beane is not going to criticize and/or reprimand McDermott in public, genius.

You’re right genius, I’m sure he’s the type of guy that will reprimand him behind the scenes.  

14 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

One thing I've been pondering regarding McDummy and the contract extension situation, perhaps an agreement is worked with the Pegulas and instead of getting fired and having to be on the hook to pay him the remaining years left he simply 'resigns' instead  knowing he'd be under ridiculous pressure in 2024 to produce and a true lame duck and still able to collect some money.

 

Probably best case scenario at this point.

I mean, head coaches resign all of the time in the NFL.  Especially right after signing a multi-year contract extension which likely gave them a raise financially.   
 

It makes so much sense 👌

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

One thing I've been pondering regarding McDummy and the contract extension situation, perhaps an agreement is worked with the Pegulas and instead of getting fired and having to be on the hook to pay him the remaining years left he simply 'resigns' instead  knowing he'd be under ridiculous pressure in 2024 to produce and a true lame duck and still able to collect some money.

 

Probably best case scenario at this point.

 

Few NFL HC's have as much authority within their franchise as McD does in Buffalo.  The idea he'd willingly cede that because of media/fan pressure is completely asinine, particularly with a team-compliant media.  Fans shouting from the roof-tops won't move the needle much either.    

 

And then there's the pay thing.  As far as we know, unless there's some sort of buyout provision in his contract, he's getting 4 years of salary (2024-2027) although a future position will defray that IIRC.   I also doubt Pegula is going to eat ~25-30M and admit that contract extension, by virtue of firing McD, was a huge mistake.  

 

The Bills are stuck with McD.  Sure it's bad for the franchise, but moving on from him is more of a money thing than fans realize.  And with Terry ponying up on new stadium cost overruns, it's not to his benefit because people still come to the games, buy the merchandise, and he gets his cut of the revenue sharing, which is upwards of 370M per now.  

 

McD ain't quitting, nor would anyone with a brain do so with contract in hand.  Maybe Terry makes the move, but there are other considerations to the decision.  

 

 

 

[JohnNord]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:36 PM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Really not in any way an indictment on Pegula.  75% of the coaches that are hired  never make it beyond their 1st contract.  So Pegula would just join a long list of other owners that are not able to predict the future and hire the wrong guy.

 

So yes a likely better than 50/50 he hires the wrong guy, but that's just normal in the NFL

Terry has a horrendous track record of hiring leaders.  
 

Take a look at the long list of Sabres coaches that he hired and fired.  Granato is the most successful one and he doesn’t have a .500 record.   

 

Then look how Terry has fired almost all of his upper management since buying the Bills and Sabres.  
 

He is not good as a sports owner.  The only thing he’s done well is let Beane and McDermott run the show 

[theRalph]

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

The Bills are stuck with McD.  Sure it's bad for the franchise, but moving on from him is more of a money thing than fans realize.  And with Terry ponying up on new stadium cost overruns, it's not to his benefit because people still come to the games, buy the merchandise, and he gets his cut of the revenue sharing, which is upwards of 370M per now. 

The cost of buying out McDermott's contract cannot be compared to stadium costs. This is such a poor take.

Edited November 28, 2023 by theRalph

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, BBFL said:

Who available? Guys will take an NFL HC gig with Josh. That’s the point. You don’t have to get a guy who’s already an HC or one with experience…

 

You try. If it doesn’t work, you move on and cut your losses. It’s been that way for years. Still is. 

Oh I agree, I think the Bills job is the most desirable in the NFL, possibly 2nd to the Chargers in some people’s view if they are both available this year.  The Chargers have SO MUCH talent on that roster, they really should be much better than they are, but the Bills have Josh Allen and the ability to clear a lot of cap room after next year, so that’s another good spot.   Guys will jump on it for sure.

[Wayne Arnold]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

You’re right genius, I’m sure he’s the type of guy that will reprimand him behind the scenes.  

 

Beane isn't his boss but I'm sure he lets Pegula know of his shortcomings.

[JohnNord]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:39 PM, Virgil said:

At this point, with McD being a defensive minded coach and calling the plays, we have lost all our games by one score.  
 

If he can’t win with his defense and the offense did their part, then he deserves to be fired.  
 

What argument is there to keep him?

1. You argue variance which typically does exist with one-score games.  Teams that win a lot of one-score games one season are sometimes bad the next.  
 

They were 6-2 in one score games last year.

 

2. The injuries to 3 major contributors on the defense.  Yes injuries occur but few teams suffer 3 season-long injuries to starters on every level of the defense.  

 

3. Offensive struggles under Dorsey.  When the Bills need to the offense to pick up the slack they were struggling to score more than 20 points until he made the switch as OC.

 

4. Track record.

 

Not saying this is what I want but there are arguments to be made and either way the decision won’t be easy

[Yobogoya!]

14 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

You’re so desperate to try to discredit McDermott you’re now making stuff up.  
 

#1 Your logic implies that all records are equal.  So by your definition, the SB winning Giants teams that went 9-7 were no better than the 2014 or the 2017 Bills team?  They just got lucky to make the playoffs that season?   That’s where your “facts” are silly.

#2 Your logic assuming the rosters are

You’re also overlooking the rosters of the 2014 team vs. 2017 team.   These were different teams completely.  The 2014 roster

had one of the top defenses in the NFL and was thought of to be ready to contend for the playoffs. The 2017 roster was largely considered to be a “tank job.”  Outside of Shady and maybe a rookie Trey White, the team was largely devoid of talent.  

So again?  Which is more impressive going 9-7 with a good roster that was expected to compete and missing the playoffs?  Or going 9-7 with one of the worst rosters in the league and actually making the playoffs?   That’s why your comparisons are completely off.  

 

Obviously, the line between winning and losing is razor thin in the NFL.  You need to have some bounces and luck go your way.   But to say 9-7 = 9-7 is simply ignoring nuance (and the reality) involved in these conversations. 

 

I'm not desperate to discredit McDermott. I'm forever grateful to him for braking the drought, I'm just putting some context into that achievement. 

 

You're the one offering an opinion instead of facts. That the 2017 record of 9-7 was more impressive than the 2014 of 9-7. That's your opinion, fine, ok. 

 

But again, I pointed out the FACT that the 2014 had a much higher strength of victory. So is it still your opinion McDermott's 2017 record was more impressive, even though his victories came against inferior competition?

 

Frankly McDermott's roster might not have been "expected" to compete for anything in 2017, but that's because he himself chose to demolish the roster and go for a rebuild after he took over. He didn't inherit a team devoid of talent. Hell, Marrone had to do the mad scramble in 2014 after the Bills picked up Kyle Orton off his couch to try and salvage that season after EJ's downward spiral. And again, he still won nine games against a stronger slate of opponents. 

 

Not sure why this is your hill to die on honestly, lol. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Yobogoya!

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Beane isn't his boss but I'm sure he lets Pegula know of his shortcomings.

Some of McDermott’s shortcomings are also reflective of Beane.  I don’t believe this.

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, theRalph said:

The cost of buying out McDermott's contract cannot be compared to stadium costs. This is such a poor take.

 

I'll put it this way.  You build a new home that is originally going to cost you 300k.  Building costs increase to the point that the builder comes back and says it'll now cost 400k before construction starts.  You've obtained a mortgage for 300k and now gotta contribute more.

 

Oh, and the car could use new tires and brakes, but they're passable for now.  You gonna spend that money as easily on the car now that the mortgage went up unexpectedly?    

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

Some of McDermott’s shortcomings are also reflective of Beane.  I don’t believe this.

 

McDermott's cowardly tendencies when managing games is reflective of Beane? Do they share a brain or something?

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

I'm not desperate to discredit McDermott. I'm forever grateful to him for braking the drought, I'm just putting some context into that achievement. 

 

You're the one offering an opinion instead of facts. That the 2017 record of 9-7 was more impressive than the 2014 of 9-7. That's your opinion, fine, ok. 

 

But again, I pointed out the FACT that the 2014 had a much higher strength of victory. So is it still your opinion McDermott's 2017 record was more impressive, even though his victories came against inferior competition?

 

Frankly McDermott's roster might not have been "expected" to compete for anything in 2017, but that's because he himself chose to demolish the roster and go for a rebuild after he took over. He didn't inherit a team devoid of talent. Hell, Marrone had to do the mad scramble in 2014 after the Bills picked up Kyle Orton off his couch to try and salvage that season after EJ's downward spiral. And again, he still won nine games against a stronger slate of opponents. 

 

Not sure why this is your hill to die on honestly, lol. 

Your argument is hardly as airtight are you believe and I’ve pointed out where your logic was severely flawed.  

[BBFL]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

There’s no fear -  just a difference of opinion.  I wouldn’t call him “low ceiling” by any means and I think his body of work shows that.   I’m also not alone.  Many others in the national media and local media have also rated him highly.  
 

People here want to pretend that McDermott is “Dick Jauron with Josh Allen,” when that’s not the case.    Even if you want him gone pretending he hasn’t been successful or “low ceiling” is being reactionary and caught in the moment which about 80% of the posts here are.  Everyone wants a silver bullet to solve the problems on the team, but I’m quite sure transitioning from McDermott to another coach is the right choice.  

 

As far as McDermott goes, I’m not 100% behind him.  I have concerns like a lot of fans do.  I’m waiting to see how the next 5 games 

Your marketing logic is flawed.  How do you expect fans to get excited to hire a despised 70 year-old coach that has a reputation of being carried by Tom Brady?

 

Also Bill isn’t going to come without personnel control.  Do you want Brandon Beane gone as well?  This is by far the worst coaching idea I’ve seen here 

This strategy has worked very well for Carolina the past 5 years 👌

Carolina have had no QB…

Buffalo has Josh. 

😂

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

McDermott's cowardly tendencies when managing games is reflective of Beane? Do they share a brain or something?

No but it would help to have the player you traded up in Round 1 able to contribute on the field.  Or “the closer” you paid  $100 million to actually make a difference in the game.  

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

Your argument is hardly as airtight are you believe and I’ve pointed out where your logic was severely flawed.  

 

Yeah but no you haven't, actually. You just keep giving me your opinion, and that's fine. But you haven't refuted my argument at all, because you can't. 

 

True or false: if Tyler Boyd drops a last ditch effort pass on 4th and 12 at the end of the Bengals/Ravens game, the Bills do not make the postseason in 2017? 

 

That's not "logic" or an "opinion," by the way. That's just a fact of reality. 

[Roundybout]

38 minutes ago, theRalph said:

Dick Jauron with a better roster.

 

Silly comparison. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

Silly comparison. 

Mike McCarthy w out a Super Bowl

[CodeMonkey]

I hear Frank Reich is available.

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

1. You argue variance which typically does exist with one-score games.  Teams that win a lot of one-score games one season are sometimes bad the next.  
 

They were 6-2 in one score games last year.

 

2. The injuries to 3 major contributors on the defense.  Yes injuries occur but few teams suffer 3 season-long injuries to starters on every level of the defense.  

 

3. Offensive struggles under Dorsey.  When the Bills need to the offense to pick up the slack they were struggling to score more than 20 points until he made the switch as OC.

 

4. Track record.

 

Not saying this is what I want but there are arguments to be made and either way the decision won’t be easy

 

McD is 28-28 in one score games

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

McDermott's cowardly tendencies when managing games is reflective of Beane? Do they share a brain or something?

I don’t really get how he’s cowardly.  I mean I’m not saying he’s good by any means but he’s been bringing arguably too much heat on those game winning drives for the other team 😂. 

 

is he cowardly for not going for that 4th and medium in ot?  I don’t think any coach is going for that in that spot.  The eagles would only be in 4 down territory until field goal range and if you hold them to a fg the next score wins 

[JohnNord]

15 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

McD is 28-28 in one score games

Like I said, variance is high.  Kyle Shannahan is 25-28.  Dan Campbell is 9-13.  Typically the one-score games even out 

[Man with No Name]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Like I said, variance is high.  Kyle Shannahan is 25-28.  Dan Campbell is 9-13.  Typically the one-score games even out 

This is why we were never as good as our record showed last year. The eyeball test told everyone we were mediocre from Green Bay 2nd half onwards. And this year we are better than our record. the problem isn't necessarily losing the close games. It's losing those games to the jets, patriots, denver, etc. that should never be that close. 

 

That game against the Eagles should have come off as a mildly disappointing, turn the page, get em the next time type of thing. But it has kind of taken on a life of it's own because we are almost in a playoff situation  at this point. The game was way more important than it ever should have been, so now emotions are boiling over. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Man with No Name

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Terry has a horrendous track record of hiring leaders.  
 

Take a look at the long list of Sabres coaches that he hired and fired.  Granato is the most successful one and he doesn’t have a .500 record.   

 

Then look how Terry has fired almost all of his upper management since buying the Bills and Sabres.  
 

He is not good as a sports owner.  The only thing he’s done well is let Beane and McDermott run the show 

 

All true, but even "better owners" haven't had much better success either. Certainly having Allen on the roster makes  things easier for a new coach coming in.

 

Question to is what is better to hire an up and coming coordinator who has never been a HC, or a college HC as he at least has head coaching experience.  Maybe the ideal would be a coordinator who at one time was a HC or a college HC who use to be an NFL coordinator.  But even then have to ask why isn't he still a HC?

[Roundybout]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Mike McCarthy w out a Super Bowl

Better. Or Mike Zimmer.

[JGMcD2]

5 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Yeah but no you haven't, actually. You just keep giving me your opinion, and that's fine. But you haven't refuted my argument at all, because you can't. 

 

True or false: if Tyler Boyd drops a last ditch effort pass on 4th and 12 at the end of the Bengals/Ravens game, the Bills do not make the postseason in 2017? 

 

That's not "logic" or an "opinion," by the way. That's just a fact of reality. 

It's actually amazing how that all played out. In the event the Ravens and Bengals played in Week 3 that year and Tyler Boyd caught a game winning TD on 4th and 12, nobody would ever point to that and say the BIlls lucked in. It's all because of the timing of it. 

[JohnNord]

18 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It's actually amazing how that all played out. In the event the Ravens and Bengals played in Week 3 that year and Tyler Boyd caught a game winning TD on 4th and 12, nobody would ever point to that and say the BIlls lucked in. It's all because of the timing of it. 

If you want to go back in history and take away accomplishments because of events that happened in the past, you’d have hundreds of events like this.  That’s why his original premise was straight up foolish

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

If you want to go back in history and take away accomplishments because of events that happened in the past, you’d have hundreds of events like this.  That’s why his original premise was straight up foolish

So a retelling of what actually happened is straight up foolish but rearranging past events to suit your narrative is logical

[JohnNord]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So a retelling of what actually happened is straight up foolish but rearranging past events to suit your narrative is logical

Again, if want to play the “if-then” game we would be here all day.  It’s just futile.  We could do the same thing to nearly every Super Bowl winner.  

[GoBills808]

Just now, JohnNord said:

Again, if want to play the “if-then” game we would be here all day.  It’s just futile.  We could do the same thing to nearly every Super Bowl winner.  

the premise that the Bills were incredibly lucky to make the playoffs in 2017 is totally reasonable

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

the premise that the Bills were incredibly lucky to make the playoffs in 2017 is totally reasonable

Right but how is that different than any other team’s season.  You need the breaks to fall your way.  You can argue that KC was lucky to win the SB because of the holding penalty. 
 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, JohnNord said:

Right but how is that different than any other team’s season.  You need the breaks to fall your way.  You can argue that KC was lucky to win the SB because of the holding penalty. 
 

 

the Bills needing the breaks to fall their way to lose 10-3 in the wildcard vs KC needing the breaks to fall their way to win the SB does not help your argument imo

 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

the Bills needing the breaks to fall their way to lose 10-3 in the wildcard vs KC needing the breaks to fall their way to win the SB does not help your argument imo

 

 

Counterpoint: every team that has ever made the postseason without a franchise QB has needed to be lucky. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint: every team that has ever made the postseason without a franchise QB has needed to be lucky. 

100% no doubt about it

 

But it is a function of some measure of luck. Heck this season 2-3 AFC teams might get in that fit that criteria...and I dunno if we'd use it as reasoning why their HCs shouldn't be let go if they found themselves in McDermott's position 5odd yrs down the road w a top QB

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

100% no doubt about it

 

But it is a function of some measure of luck. Heck this season 2-3 AFC teams might get in that fit that criteria...and I dunno if we'd use it as reasoning why their HCs shouldn't be let go if they found themselves in McDermott's position 5odd yrs down the road w a top QB

Why not? Tomlin has made a career on being the “never worse than .500” coach. Talk about low expectations lol

 

If we put the McD criteria on some of these guys, they stop smelling so sweet. 

[GoBills808]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Why not? Tomlin has made a career on being the “never worse than .500” coach. Talk about low expectations lol

 

If we put the McD criteria on some of these guys, they stop smelling so sweet. 

Tomlin has a super bowl is the criteria, if Richardson blossoms into Allen 2.0 but the Colts are sliding backwards by year6 I doubt folks would be pointing to 2023 playoffs as reason to keep Steichen

[juno999]

8 hours ago, JohnNord said:

 

3. Offensive struggles under Dorsey.  When the Bills need to the offense to pick up the slack they were struggling to score more than 20 points until he made the switch as OC.

 

McD promoted Dorsey even though he had no experience as an OC.  This was a bad hire and another mistake by McD.  Not a firable offense by itself but just one more reason to make a change at HC. 

 

My biggest issue with McD is he loses too many games that they should win.  Over his entire tenure as coach.  Too many turnovers, penalties, mistakes, missed assignments, dropped passes, wrong use of timeouts, bad challenges, and too many men on a missed GWFGA. 

 

A few isolated losses here and there where a player blows it, ok that happens to every team, but there is just too much overall inconsistency with this team.  This team has talent and should be playing at a higher level of play.  They are underperforming and that is the HC's fault.  He's gotta go.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Tomlin has a super bowl is the criteria, if Richardson blossoms into Allen 2.0 but the Colts are sliding backwards by year6 I doubt folks would be pointing to 2023 playoffs as reason to keep Steichen

BB has 6 of them and he's on the hotseat.  And he has 2 Superbowl wins since Tomlin's last playoff win lol.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

BB has 6 of them and he's on the hotseat.  And he has 2 Superbowl wins since Tomlin's last playoff win lol.

Right

 

So I don't understand why McDermott getting let go is so far fetched...Tomlin parlayed roethlisberger in the Brady era into a championship