Gabe Davis Miscommunication Plays this season

[SoCal Deek]

I’m no expert but the QB watches the safeties before the snap on EVERY passing play.  When an all out blitz comes, the QB knows the safe place to throw the ball is over the middle, because there’s nobody there to intercept it. Why Gabe Davis doesn’t yet know that is beyond me! 

Edited November 27, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

I’m no expert the QB watches the safeties before the snap on EVERY passing play.  When an all out blitz comes, the QB knows the safe place to throw the ball is over the middle, because there’s nobody there to intercept it. Why Gabe Davis doesn’t yet know that is beyond me! 

Gabe is obviously reading Slay here. Slay has inside leverage. Gabe should’ve just ran by him but he over thought it. Allen was using instinct. Gabe was over thinking.

 

I think Gabe probably feels he made the right read but he didn’t have to do all that. 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Gabe is obviously reading Slay here. Slay has inside leverage. Gabe should’ve just ran by him but he over thought it. Allen was using instinct. Gabe was over thinking.

 

I think Gabe probably feels he made the right read but he didn’t have to do all that. 

Josh is NOT using instinct! He’s reading the defense! Every QB does on every play. What do you think they’re barking out at the line of scrimmage? Gabe is supposed to be doing the same. 

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m no expert but the QB watches the safeties before the snap on EVERY passing play.  When an all out blitz comes, the QB knows the safe place to throw the ball is over the middle, because there’s nobody there to intercept it. Why Gabe Davis doesn’t yet know that is beyond me! 

Because he’s not athletic enough to make the right read and get to the spot.  The CB botched the coverage so bad that either side was open, but Davis ain’t athletic enough to get where he was supposed to go so he stayed outside.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Josh is NOT using instinct! He’s reading the defense! Every QB does on every play. What do you think they’re barking out at the line of scrimmage? Gabe is supposed to be doing the same. 

Slay is playing zone and clearly shows inside leverage. Slay is also lined up inside of Gabe Davis 10 yards off. 

Everything is telling Gabe to break outside.

 

The question is post snap Slay is playing inside still but is caught flat footed. Is there another read based on Slay being flat footed? Davis wins that route no mater what he does but Slay is still showing inside leverage the whole time.
 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Slay is playing zone and clearly shows inside leverage. Slay is also lined up inside of Gabe Davis 10 yards off. 

Everything is telling Gabe to break outside.

 

The question is post snap Slay is playing inside still but is caught flat footed. Is there another read based on Slay being flat footed? 
 

 

 

The QB is NOT reading the leverage of the CB! He reads the safeties.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The QB is NOT reading the leverage of the CB! He reads the safeties.

The WR is!!!   The QB also should be. Slay could’ve easily been the deep middle coverage there. Slay plays it so bad though.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The QB is NOT reading the leverage of the CB! He reads the safeties.

The receiver reads the cbs leverage

Edited November 27, 2023 by C.Biscuit97

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The WR is!!!   The QB also should be.

So it’s your opinion that in the face of an all out blitz, the QB is supposed to notice the ‘leverage’ of the cornerback? Okie dokie. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

So it’s your opinion that in the face of an all out blitz, the QB is supposed to be nothing the ‘leverage’ of the cornerback? Okie dokie. 

QB is supposed to know the route concepts.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, boater said:

You don't know what went on between Beane and DeAndre Hopkins.

 

I do know, because Beane made it a point to say publicly several times that he couldn't afford Hopkins. Nevermind that he has wasted a fortune on underperforming defensive linemen and small WRs. He made sure to let us know failing to sign Hopkins wasn't his fault.

[cgg716]

48 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Gabe is obviously reading Slay here. Slay has inside leverage. Gabe should’ve just ran by him but he over thought it. Allen was using instinct. Gabe was over thinking.

 

I think Gabe probably feels he made the right read but he didn’t have to do all that. 

But slay isn't the read, basis football 

[Steptide]

I'm really curious how he plays the rest of the season. Was it Dorsey that held Gabe back, or is it Gabe? He had a big game last night. If he plays the next 5 games like he did last night, he'll make a pretty good case for himself to stay 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, cgg716 said:

But slay isn't the read, basis football 

Slay is definitely a read for the WR. 

[cgg716]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Slay is definitely a read for the WR. 

Seriously you just saw us lose to this play from Wilson two weeks ago, how you're reading it is mind blowing 

[Bills aPHILLYate]

7 hours ago, Old Coot said:

I don't necessarily disagree. That said, however, please explain how Gabe was to run his route inside when the DB has inside leverage. What gabe did was to run away from the DB he had beaten deep. If he runs inside he's moving in the general direction of the DB who then might have a play on the ball.

Because there is a full on blitz occurring. With no safety coverage on top, he should be running to the more open area to compensate for a potentially rushed pass. 

I've rewatched this play roughly 30x.

Diggs draws the man coverage to the sideline underneath flawlessly, and that crossed Slay up, which is why Gabe essentially went right by him. The option at that point was to simply continue running straight.

You can see where Allen threw the ball was leading him in the same direction he was already going. The break to the outside turns that into an over the shoulder touch pass.

There was no need for an additional move on the route (especially towards the sideline) because there was no other defender to account for. 

Diggs is already signaling a score when he turns and sees Gabe with a clear path.

 

 

[Sgt. Ski]

You can't just blame gabe.

Josh had 3 throws to no where. Where was Kincade in the 2nd half? What happened to the OC? We'll just run all the time because we had a couple of good runs. I hope we get a good coordinate next year. Maybe frank?

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Seriously you just saw us lose to this play from Wilson two weeks ago, how you're reading it is mind blowing 

Completely different alignment. Johnson was on Juedy pre and post snap. Slay is lined up 5 yards inside and 10 yards off on Diggs pre snap. Slay is showing inside the whole time.

 

And I just watched the Wilson throw. He throws it OUTSIDE!

Edited November 27, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Allen2Moulds]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

QB is supposed to know the route concepts.

Same rules for QB and WR. Safety location dictates.  Sucks because Gabe was having one of his best games of the year, up until that point. 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Slay is playing zone and clearly shows inside leverage. Slay is also lined up inside of Gabe Davis 10 yards off. 

Everything is telling Gabe to break outside.

 

The question is post snap Slay is playing inside still but is caught flat footed. Is there another read based on Slay being flat footed? Davis wins that route no mater what he does but Slay is still showing inside leverage the whole time.
 

 

 

it’s almost like slay knew the read for gabe would be inside there too

 

so the all pro db, romo, Allen and most of the board seem to think Gabe’s route on the safety blitz would be inside, right? 

[Bills aPHILLYate]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Slay is playing zone and clearly shows inside leverage. Slay is also lined up inside of Gabe Davis 10 yards off. 

Everything is telling Gabe to break outside.

 

The question is post snap Slay is playing inside still but is caught flat footed. Is there another read based on Slay being flat footed? Davis wins that route no mater what he does but Slay is still showing inside leverage the whole time.
 

 

 

Slay isn't playing zone. He is playing man and got confused on his assignment. He followed Diggs late across the formation. He thought he was covering him once they lined up.

 

The outside DB stepped up to defend the underneath route by Diggs because they still could get a 1st down.

Slay initially made his move towards Diggs also, which is why Gabe ran right past him.

 

The defender didn't have any leverage because the coverage is blown and Gabe passes him at the 10yd line.

 

The read at that point is keep going straight, not make an additional adjustment for a tougher throw.

 

 

 

[Rubes]

2 minutes ago, Bills aPHILLYate said:

Slay isn't playing zone. He is playing man and got confused on his assignment. He followed Diggs late across the formation. He thought he was covering him once they lined up.

 

The outside DB stepped up to defend the underneath route by Diggs because they still could get a 1st down.

Slay initially made his move towards Diggs also, which is why Gabe ran right past him.

 

The defender didn't have any leverage because the coverage is blown and Gabe passes him at the 10yd line.

 

The read at that point is keep going straight, not make an additional adjustment for a tougher throw.

 

 

 

 

I mean, Josh himself said they were playing Cover 0 on that play. All Gabe needed to do was keep running straight, not turn outside and go to the corner. But what do I know.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

38 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

it’s almost like slay knew the read for gabe would be inside there too

 

so the all pro db, romo, Allen and most of the board seem to think Gabe’s route on the safety blitz would be inside, right? 

Slay was guessing Davis wouldn’t go deep and he guessed wrong. But his alignment told Davis break outside. 

7 minutes ago, Bills aPHILLYate said:

Slay isn't playing zone. He is playing man and got confused on his assignment. He followed Diggs late across the formation. He thought he was covering him once they lined up.

 

The outside DB stepped up to defend the underneath route by Diggs because they still could get a 1st down.

Slay initially made his move towards Diggs also, which is why Gabe ran right past him.

 

The defender didn't have any leverage because the coverage is blown and Gabe passes him at the 10yd line.

 

The read at that point is keep going straight, not make an additional adjustment for a tougher throw.

 

 

 

Slay is not even lined up on Gabe at the snap. He’s inside on Diggs and 10 yards off.

 

I can’t stand Gabe Davis but it was a miscommunication!!!!!!!!

 

Its a problem that needs to be fixed in practice because it’s an ongoing problem.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Bills aPHILLYate]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Slay is not even lined up on Gabe at the snap. He’s inside on Diggs and 10 yards off.

 

I know this...in fact I said this 

 

He wasn't playing zone, he was playing man on Diggs and he was right at the first down marker which was 7yds away. He was still accounting for the fact that they could get a 1st. He reacted to Diggs route.

 

He recovered about as best he could to pick up Gabe as he ran bye but he had no intent of covering him.

 

That's why the coverage was blown. 

 

Still...Gabe should've continued towards the open space directly in front of him in that situation. 

 

[cgg716]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Completely different alignment. Johnson was on Juedy pre and post snap. Slay is lined up 5 yards inside and 10 yards off on Diggs pre snap. Slay is showing inside the whole time.

 

And I just watched the Wilson throw. He throws it OUTSIDE!

You keep thinking Slay has anything to do with it, he doesn't. He's on Gabe either way, The area of the field the safety vacates blitzing is the read, Josh makes the correct throw, Gabe breaks the indisputable wrong way. Creating a 1000x harder throw even if Allen had the time to read his route

[Warcodered]

17 hours ago, Virgil said:

I don’t know if this can be statistically looked up, but how many times this season has there been an incorrect route run, where Josh throws the ball to nowhere, and Gabe was the intended receiver.   
 

I don’t care about the 13 second game or how many yards and TD he has.  On this one topic, is it disproportionately Gabe Davis vs everyone else?  
 

It definitely feels that way 

The two of them have been off all year just on different wavelengths.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

You keep thinking Slay has anything to do with it, he doesn't. He's on Gabe either way, The area of the field the safety vacates blitzing is the read, Josh makes the correct throw, Gabe breaks the indisputable wrong way. Creating a 1000x harder throw even if Allen had the time to read his route

 The Bills run this all the time. Gabe/WR/TE always breaks outside vs inside leverage.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[pennstate10]

This is where teams that have dedicated players benefit from OTA and extra film time. 
 

Josh is perhaps the most talented QB of the past 20 years. 
 

But talent doesn’t triumph over everything. 
 

There is a book by Malcom Gladwell which endorses the idea that you need to spend 10000 hrs at an activity to truly master the activity. Playing the cello, shooting free throws, kicking FG. You get the idea. 
 

That’s where off season work come in. You practice these situations over and over again to master them. 
 

Yeah, I get it’s the off season, and these are optional team activities. But if you truly want to be a champion, they aren’t optional. 

[cgg716]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 The Bills run this all the time. Gabe/WR/TE always breaks outside vs inside leverage.

Against a zero blitz?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, cgg716 said:

Against a zero blitz?

I don’t know. We ran a similar play for a TD vs Miami in the playoffs last year. Similar alignment from the Bills. Miami was a heavy cover 0 team but in that play they didn’t run cover 0. Gabe broke outside and Josh hit him for a TD.

 

I don’t know if Gabe is supposed to adjust for cover 0. I mean this wasn’t even disguised. Everyone knew it was cover 0 pre snap. So you’d think Allen and Davis would have a signal pre snap so their on the same page.

 

I feel like Davis would’ve accepted full responsibility if he was supposed to do something else. I think he ran it exactly how it’s coached. Allen ran it thinking Davis saw what he saw. A flat footed DB that he could run right by for a TD.

 

 

[cgg716]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t know. We ran a similar play for a TD vs Miami in the playoffs last year. Similar alignment from the Bills. Miami was a heavy cover 0 team but in that play they didn’t run cover 0. Gabe broke outside and Josh hit him for a TD.

 

I don’t know if Gabe is supposed to adjust for cover 0. I mean this wasn’t even disguised. Everyone knew it was cover 0 pre snap. So you’d think Allen and Davis would have a signal pre snap so their on the same page.

 

I feel like Davis would’ve accepted full responsibility if he was supposed to do something else. I think he ran it exactly how it’s coached. Allen ran it thinking Davis saw what he saw. A flat footed DB that he could run right by for a TD.

 

 

Or maybe Gabe just isn't very bright 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Here you go. Gabe didn’t mess up.

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here you go. Gabe didn’t mess up.

 

 

Thank you for posting.

 

Hopefully everyone watches this, especially those who posted since last night blaming Gabe.

 

I said it last night, Josh didn't see the corner had inside leverage (pressure in his face).  I had no idea how the corner got inside, but now makes sense that Eagles switched off.  Credit Philly secondary on that, they've obviously seen us run that route combo with Diggs/Davis and made a great switch off.

 

You'd hope Josh would see that, but difficult to blame him for that.  Goal was to get 1-1, not against Slay.  Looking back, rather us give Diggs that "option" route and take our chances best on best.

[BananaB]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here you go. Gabe didn’t mess up.

 

 

The difference in the plays is that on previous plays there is defenders in the middle of the field, last night it was wide open and a much easier throw under pressure. 
 

Both Allen and Davis said it was an option route, which kind of contradicts the previous plays.  The all out blitz probably determined that so the QB could get the ball out quick

Edited November 28, 2023 by BananaB

[Brandon]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here you go. Gabe didn’t mess up.

 

 

 

The Jaguars and Dolphins were in a much better position to cover the middle on those two plays. If Davis just runs straight upfield against the Eagles,  he's going to run right past the defender and there's no one else back there. Yes,  he still gets open to the outside corner,  but it's a much more difficult throw for Allen,  especially with the Eagles blitzing, and it puts the CB between them.  Watching that,  and knowing it's an option route,  I strongly suspect that's a mistake by Davis. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Brandon

[Buffalo_Stampede]

19 minutes ago, BananaB said:

The difference in the plays is that on previous plays there is defenders in the middle of the field, last night it was wide open and a much easier throw under pressure. 
 

Both Allen and Davis said it was an option route, which kind of contradicts the previous plays.  The all out blitz probably determined that so the QB could get the ball out quick

They are all likely options. What people are failing to understand is the DB alignment. Slay is lined up inside on Diggs and stays inside to take Davis. Davis read that and broke outside.

We all know either way Davis goes he wins because Slay is flat footed but Slay staying inside and picking up Davis is what caused the confusion.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BananaB]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They are all likely options. What people are failing to understand is the DB alignment. Slay is lined up inside on Diggs and stays inside to take Davis. Davis read that and broke outside.

 

 

Davis read wrong. The leverage didn’t matter, he beats the CB either way. The play of the safety dictates the option. The middle of the field is wide open, why try to throw over a defenders head when there is an easier pass in the option. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by BananaB

[LABILLBACKER]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:17 PM, Big Turk said:

I dunno...the worst part is all he had to do is run the route he ran against KC late in the 4th quarter in the playoffs and they win the game...like he already knows what to run against that blitz.

Exactly...Gabe knew it was a 0 blitz. Just run a straight fly and turn around.  It didn't require a sharp left cut.  Just dumb and Gabe does this often.  Sherfield ran 3 wrong routes.  

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, Rubes said:

 

I mean, Josh himself said they were playing Cover 0 on that play. All Gabe needed to do was keep running straight, not turn outside and go to the corner. But what do I know.

 

 

 

More than Gabe.

[Bills aPHILLYate]

13 minutes ago, BananaB said:

The difference in the plays is that on previous plays there is defenders in the middle of the field, last night it was wide open and a much easier throw under pressure. 
 

Both Allen and Davis said it was an option route, which kind of contradicts the previous plays.  The all out blitz probably determined that so the QB could get the ball out quick

It's like the first point is being ignored altogether for some reason. 

A corner route is a 3 part route.

Slant inside, streak, corner... 

The option comes into play after reading what the defensive situation is after the streak. 

 

If you've got behind the defender after 7yds during the streak with no other defender in sight, I can't understand why someone would opt to not run straight into open space. Especially with an all out blitz in play...

Just seems like a low iq decision and it's amplified due to the circumstances.