is there a HC out there worth going after?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Vrabel.  His teams are tough nosed and built to play in Buffalo.  He’s won with far worse QB’s than Josh and I think he’s a great fit for the fanbase and for Josh.  

i’m open to this idea. Is he really on the hot seat in Tennessee though?

 

while we’re at it, what about Belicheck? I could totally see him wanting to come to Buffalo to stick it to the patriots twice a year. And I could see Terry wanting him to coach here.

 

i’m not saying Belicheck is the coach I would want, but I could definitely see it happening.

[RyanC883]

Ben Johnson as HC

 

Perhaps keep Brady as OC (dude is young, can learn from Johnson) 

 

Babbich as DC

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Heels20X6 said:

Honestly, if Washington doesn't promote him, the right man for the job is Eric Bienemy.  He's from the Reid coaching tree but he's offensively minded.  He can find a decent DC and go from there.

It’s hilarious people hate on EB without real reason. The Chiefs’’ offense has regressed tremendously without him and he has dollar general Baker Mayfield on pace for 5,000 yards.  But clearly he has no idea about offense. I swear there are people on this board who hate certain types of qbs and coaches for very idiotic reasons. 
 

and McDermott isn’t getting fired. But EB and Ben Johnson should be the number 1 candidates.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Bobby Slowik - OC for the Texans. Stroud is a legit MVP candidate and Slowik has been following Shannahan around for years. 

this guy should be on top of the list for sure.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Funny you mention a coach-for-coach trade.

 

I was just thinking last night if we could pull one off with the Giants.

 

They get McD who is good for fixing a bottom-5 team. We get Dabol who our players love and would fix our offense.

 

Git r dun

Daboll looks awful this year, cost them several games,  and seems like he is going to have a heart attack every game. 
 

but there are worse ideas. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

Ben Johnson as HC

 

Perhaps keep Brady as OC (dude is young, can learn from Johnson) 

 

Babbich as DC

 

 

 

If you bring in an outsider like Ben Johnson, you'll have to let him hire his own guys as Coordinators. Likely guys we've never even heard of.

 

I was hoping for a move where McD fired not only Dorsey, but himself as DC, promoted Babbich, and went back to pure HC duties to try to salvage the season.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Vrabel.  His teams are tough nosed and built to play in Buffalo.  He’s won with far worse QB’s than Josh and I think he’s a great fit for the fanbase and for Josh.  

I think he is one of the best coaches in the nfl but that is basically like getting McDermott on steroids. It’s spinning the wheel.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

i’m open to this idea. Is he really on the hot seat in Tennessee though?

 

while we’re at it, what about Belicheck? I could totally see him wanting to come to Buffalo to stick it to the patriots twice a year. And I could see Terry wanting him to coach here.

 

i’m not saying Belicheck is the coach I would want, but I could definitely see it happening.

 

I don’t want us to hire a 71 year old HC. I don’t care who he is. His giant ego probably tells him he’s a solid GM and he’d want those powers. No thank you, very much. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

i’m open to this idea. Is he really on the hot seat in Tennessee though?

 

while we’re at it, what about Belicheck? I could totally see him wanting to come to Buffalo to stick it to the patriots twice a year. And I could see Terry wanting him to coach here.

 

i’m not saying Belicheck is the coach I would want, but I could definitely see it happening.

 

When he has had an elite level franchise QB the record speaks for itself. 9 Super Bowl appearances with 6 Super Bowl championships. He also wouldn't be getting outcoached by likes of Reid and Taylor in the playoffs.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If you bring in an outsider like Ben Johnson, you'll have to let him hire his own guys as Coordinators. Likely guys we've never even heard of.

 

I was hoping for a move where McD fired not only Dorsey, but himself as DC, promoted Babbich, and went back to pure HC duties to try to salvage the season.

Not really sure what is bad about bringing in fresh blood at this point. This team has plateaued.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s hilarious people hate on EB without real reason. The Chiefs’’ offense has regressed tremendously without him and he has dollar general Baker Mayfield on pace for 5,000 yards.  But clearly he has no idea about offense. I swear there are people on this board who hate certain types of qbs and coaches for very idiotic reasons. 
 

and McDermott isn’t getting fired. But EB and Ben Johnson should be the number 1 candidates.

 

It's not just people on this board.

 

We've watched Bienemy be the hot HC candidate as the OC for the top team for years, and every year he does a number of interviews for HC, and every year the teams move on without even considering him. There's smoke there.

 

I've never seen anyone criticize him on his offensive prowess and Xs and Os. It's usually only about his past issues (not quiiite as bad as your boy Cornelius, but still), and his general demeanor.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Gary Marangi said:

Hasn't he been passed over for years?

Tells you something

What? The teams are stupid and give losers like Pat Shurmur multiple chances because he is friends with the right people. Besides our game against them, their offense has been better than ours with chubby Sam Howell. Think about that. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Not really sure what is bad about bringing in fresh blood at this point. This team has plateaued.

 

Oh I wasnt saying it as a bad thing. Just that it wouldnt be the guys we know.

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Not really sure what is bad about bringing in fresh blood at this point. This team has plateaued.

 

DeMeco Ryans and the Texans is proof of this.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Bobby Slowik, Ben Johnson and Todd Monnken would be interesting candidates looking at coordinators 

 

 

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, Ballhawk said:

Lacking the qualifications or information to assess risk does not mean it doesn't exist. A lot fans knee jerk reaction this week is to want to replace McDermott without considering there is any risk involved. For every McVay, Taylor and Siriani there are dozens of one and done HCs. I find the premise that changing HCs next year is an automatic improvement highly flawed.

In games where the Bills hav a passer rating over 100, the bills are 16-2 the last three years.  In all other games, the Bills are .500. Side note, other teams experience similar levels of success when their teams go over 100. Recent example agains the Bills was the Patriots 129 rating

 

the 18 games over a 100 passer rating places the Bills eighth in the league over that time frame. 

So the risk is two-fold 1) will the Bills have fewer elite QB performances with McDermott gone.  It seems McDermott has little or nothing to with this factor.  Given Allen’s physical talent level, being ranked higher than eight with a new head coach seems as likely as ranking lower. Secondly only one team over that time period has more than 50 percent of games over 100 passer rating, surprisingly to me, the niners.  As a data point KC had 49 percent vs the bills 44 percent over 100. 
 

So half the games need to be won without an elite QB performance.  McDermott is actually solid, being at a bit over .500 for these games. Andy Reid gaps out from everyone by winning 64 Percent of the games without an elite passer performance in the game.  So the second risk is whether or not there are HCs available who can win at least half the games, when the passer rating is below elite level.  This is a real risk.

 

My personal opinion is that there is some upside of increasing the number of passer rating above 100 games. And there should be coaches available who can also win 50 percent of the other games.   Winning is the Super Bowl likely requires improving both winning percentages.  After six seasons, I don’t know or any reason to think McDermott will improve in win percentage for the 50 percent plus non elite passer games, nor increase the number of elite Passer rating performances. 
 

In summary, there is risk to making a change.  And there might be a reward for the change. Keeping McDermott is less risky, but at this point I don’t foresee any rewards. 

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Bobby Slowik, Ben Johnson and Todd Monnken would be interesting candidates looking at coordinators 

 

 

Monken seems like a career coordinator in the NFL and not someone who will be a good HC.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Just now, Bangarang said:

Monken seems like a career coordinator in the NFL and not someone who will be a good HC.

Likely as most are but the guy has the ravens actually dangerous on offense

 

Big change from the only Lamar scrambles offense they were running 

[TheWeatherMan]

I think we should do something completely out of the ordinary and hire someone (past or present) from the Carolina Panthers organization. 

[MikePJ76]

The hot candidates are all going to be defensive coordinators except Ben Johnson. 

 

The old school era of head coaches are all retired.  There are only a few of the guys left who were coaching in this league when it was different in the late 80s and 90s.  Reid, Belichick and Carroll. 

 

Having a young energetic staff like the eagles two years ago is really appealing at the same time it is so risky going with the unknown inexperienced who have limited exposure to other coaches and no gameday or season experience of being in charge.

 

I believe above all else if their is a vacancy in Buffalo every available coach will be lined up ten deep to coach Josh Allen and this team with this fanbase.  The new stadium coming and a really solid group on offense that can be molded to whatever the new coach wants make Buffalo an incredible position to obtain.

 

The Bills should not wait and miss out.  The front office should be quietly finding everything they need to know about each of these candidates so they can make a swift change and get on with the business at hand of the salary cap and the roster while preparing for the draft. 

 

I am fan of Brian Flores but he would have to completely redo the defense, the retreads like Jim Schwarz, Dan Quinn etc...are not as appealing to me.  You will not get one of the younger OC's.

 

The Ben Johnson thing because of the upbeat environment, the blue collar environment of Dan Campbell who he has been around for all his pro career essentially is really really appealing.  He could bring that running game here, with the know how of what it takes to create that mindset while also bringing a new energy.  Pairing him with a veteran DC and Veteran ST coach along with maybe an assistant HC who is a Veteran would be a great situation to me.  A scenario like Ben Johnson HC_OC_Play caller with Brandon Staley as DC and A vet ST coach could be something interesting.

 

The flip side, someone like Mike Macdonald would bring that young energy to the team and the defense and could be paired with a veteran OC like Pete Carmichael JR. or if Kevin Stefanski becomes available or maybe even Todd Monken if baltimore would allow it...make him OC/Assistant HC.

 

The final option is probably the most realistic, Mcdermott hires a new OC.  If the browns go in a new direction...( I don't think they will) Kevin Stefanski makes perfect sense.  Great job with Qb's in the past, has coached every position, been a head coach and called plays.  Has a scheme.  He worked with Leslie Frazier in Minnesota.  

 

again, to me Coaches will be lined up ten deep to coach allen and this offense.  The Bills have to get it right.

[davefan66]

I hate the idea of starting fresh.  Not knowing if it will actually work out.  If it happens I’d want it to be a proven commodity.  Someone with access to a proven staff.  Pretty high standards I guess.

 

I do feel the present staff, McD included, are on borrowed time.  The worst thing that could happen is McD axes more staff to save his hide and prolongs the agony.  
 

Regardless, Beane is smart enough to understand the room and do what’s right.  If the players are behind McD, he stays.  If not? Gone.  

[Buffalo03]

This is my thing with McDermott. Am I ok with firing him after the season? Yes. However, is this the type of team you want a first time head coach with? Like a Kellen Moore or something? I'd almost rather go with a coach with past HC experience that has had playoff success. Jim Cladwell is a guy I'm surprised doesn't get more attention. The guy was the last coach I believe to take the Lions to the playoffs TWICE in a 4 year time frame. That alone, is magnificent lol

[stuvian]

57 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

When the "fire McD" topic came up after 13 seconds, I mused if the Bills were in a similar situation that Denver was in with John Elway and Dan Reeves.

 

Reeves was a great coach, but couldn't get over the hump. Reeves fired his OC as a scapegoat, and when they canned Reeves, they brought back his fired OC to replace Reeves... The rest is history. 

 

The only guy I saw available at the time who could potentially be an offensive mind to take the Bills further than McD was Doug Pederson. And I think the job he's doing with Jax is proof that he's a solid offensive minded head coach.

 

With that said, I'd rather have Daboll as HC than McD. Would rather spend assets to build the offense around Josh over the next 3-5 seasons than expend so much capital on a McDermott defense that has never played consistently at a championship level. 

 

I also like the idea of bringing in Ben Johnson and giving Josh all the advantages that are being afforded to Jared Goff. That is to say, designing and offense that makes it easy on the QB. That leverages play design to scheme guys open instead of relying on a read and react / option route approach. 

 

I also hope we can get a top 5 wr in this upcoming draft. Someone that has that true #1 potential in all aspects of his game... 

I was a big Dan Reeves fan too but I think exhuming him is a little weird 

[DrDawkinstein]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Monken seems like a career coordinator in the NFL and not someone who will be a good HC.

 

It's tough to say what makes a good HC in the modern NFL where players are mainly Gen Z.

 

I dont think any of us old timers would've thought Mike McDaniel would last a day in a classic football locker room. But players are eating up his style and message.

 

Additionally, I'd even argue that at this level, players dont need as much coaching as they need schemers who will put them in positions to succeed and then GTFO of their way. The Head Coach is mainly handling game management stuff.

 

If the Offense is hot and scoring points, the entire team will motivate itself. Our guys know how to catch, they know how to hold onto the ball, they know how to tackle. They must to make it this far. The reason they arent is because they dont believe in leadership.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

No to Matt Nagy, I'd rather keep McDermott for a lifetime before you hire him

There's actually a lot to be curious about with Nagy. If we are being real, everything in Chicago starts with poor ownership. Yet somehow the dude found the playoffs twice with Trubisky and Foles at QB. Would be interested to see what he would accomplish with better QB play. He's a fan of using both short WCO routes as well as using the deep ball to open things up. 

 

He's got a reputation for making players buy in and engage by having THEM design some plays (exactly something Andy Reid is lauded for). He's not afraid to take chances and use gadget plays as well. For the "this team isn't having fun anymore" crowd....this keeps it fun for the players. He uses a LOT of RPO, which is something Allen does well. He has this one play he uses effectively.... it's called a SCREEN PLAY. Motion and misdirection. He's quite literally a LOT of what fans are screaming for. When looking into possible coaches for next year one thing he was quoted as saying really caught my eye.

 

 "What can happen, as a player, is you think you need to maybe try a little harder, you may have to act a little different – don't do that. Just be yourself. Do what got you here. As coaches, don't change. If you have a certain style of teaching, then teach that way. Don't change because now you're in the NFL"

 

Darn it all of this doesn't sound like a guy that will allow Josh Allen to play like JOSH FREAKING ALLEN. 

 

The NFL has a long history of guys that flamed out in their first coaching stint, learned and went on to success. Sure, you can point to some that didn't as well. But let me ask this. Many people were uneasy about handing the offense to a neophyte OC that had never held the position before. Why would you be eager to turn the ENTIRE TEAM over to someone brand new to the position? I want experience, and Nagy has that. 

[stuvian]

Vrabel, Harbaugh or Brian Flores

[Huh? What?]

I'm intrigued about Orvlosky... he does seem tuned into the pro game... but, he's not coming as OC (maybe making 2-3 million a yeas as that hire)... Cushy job now, kids... he'll will want double that amount and HC... which I have to admit, is maybe not that a bad idea to try... working with Josh's 7-10 year pro years. No offense to McDermott, he has done a great job, with Beane righting the SS Bills (we were the SS Minnow for many years)... but the room does seem to be lost... Orvlosky is media keyed in, which I think a lot of the younger players relate to now.... Heck, McDermott's zoom call yesterday, kept flashing Windows 10... the man can't even figure out a witty screen saver....

Edited November 15, 2023 by Huh? What?
new wording

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's tough to say what makes a good HC in the modern NFL where players are mainly Gen Z.

 

I dont think any of us old timers would've thought Mike McDaniel would last a day in a classic football locker room. But players are eating up his style and message.

 

Additionally, I'd even argue that at this level, players dont need as much coaching as they need schemers who will put them in positions to succeed and then GTFO of their way. The Head Coach is mainly handling game management stuff.

 

If the Offense is hot and scoring points, the entire team will motivate itself.

He’ll be 58 before the season is over. Seems unlikely that’s the kind of guy teams go for these days. 

[Gregg]

Any coaches in college besides Harbaugh that could be a good fit for the Bills?

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’ll be 58 before the season is over. Seems unlikely that’s the kind of guy teams go for these days. 

 

Did you mean to quote me?

[Logic]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet, but:

Bobby Slowik, OC for the Houston Texans.

The latest coach from the Shanahan, McVay, McDaniels, LaFleur group. Just 36 years old.

If he can do what he's currently doing with a rookie QB and Noah Brown and Tank Dell as his receivers, imagine what he can do with Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, and Dalton Kincaid.

Sure, he'd be an unknown as a head coach, but I'd rather take a swing on someone that can maximize Josh's talent than go with some stale re-tread.

Things have worked pretty well for coaches from this coaching tree lately. And as for Slowik specifically, the proof is in the pudding with the explosive Texans offense.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Logic

[dpberr]

The questions for the Pegulas is a tough one.  It's the question of whether your good coach can be great, and if he's not great, is "great" readily available?   

 

Is Sean McDermott circa 2000 Wade Phillips? 

Or is he circa 2000 Buccaneers Tony Dungy? 

Or is he Marty Schottenheimer?

 

It's a risky question to answer. You pick Gregg Williams (what the Bills did and began the great playoff drought) or Jon Gruden (what the Bucs did and the Bucs win a Super Bowl) or stick with him (Schottenheimer) and win a lot of regular season games but nothing past that.

 

Sometimes it's purely situational being the right coach for the right time.  Tony Dungy couldn't get the Bucs over the hump but he goes to Indianapolis and succeeds in doing so.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Any coaches in college besides Harbaugh that could be a good fit for the Bills?

 

Just kidding. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Cheektowaga Chad]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

There's actually a lot to be curious about with Nagy. If we are being real, everything in Chicago starts with poor ownership. Yet somehow the dude found the playoffs twice with Trubisky and Foles at QB. Would be interested to see what he would accomplish with better QB play. He's a fan of using both short WCO routes as well as using the deep ball to open things up. 

 

He's got a reputation for making players buy in and engage by having THEM design some plays (exactly something Andy Reid is lauded for). He's not afraid to take chances and use gadget plays as well. For the "this team isn't having fun anymore" crowd....this keeps it fun for the players. He uses a LOT of RPO, which is something Allen does well. He has this one play he uses effectively.... it's called a SCREEN PLAY. Motion and misdirection. He's quite literally a LOT of what fans are screaming for. When looking into possible coaches for next year one thing he was quoted as saying really caught my eye.

 

 "What can happen, as a player, is you think you need to maybe try a little harder, you may have to act a little different – don't do that. Just be yourself. Do what got you here. As coaches, don't change. If you have a certain style of teaching, then teach that way. Don't change because now you're in the NFL"

 

Darn it all of this doesn't sound like a guy that will allow Josh Allen to play like JOSH FREAKING ALLEN. 

 

The NFL has a long history of guys that flamed out in their first coaching stint, learned and went on to success. Sure, you can point to some that didn't as well. But let me ask this. Many people were uneasy about handing the offense to a neophyte OC that had never held the position before. Why would you be eager to turn the ENTIRE TEAM over to someone brand new to the position? I want experience, and Nagy has that. 

I would like experience as well but want winning experience and that's something likely not available

 

Making the playoffs with trubisky and foles is interesting but Nagy often is seen as the guy that ruined trubisky with how he handled him

 

To me he comes across as another Adam gase - guy who has had success with the best QB in the league then struggles elsewhere

 

What other coaches at the head coach level have failed elsewhere then succeed on the second try?  I can only think of belicheck

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet, but:

Bobby Slowik, OC for the Houston Texans.

The latest coach from the Shanahan, McVay, McDaniels, LaFleur group. Just 36 years old.

If he can do what he's currently doing with a rookie QB and Noah Brown and Tank Dell as his receivers, imagine what he can do with Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, and Dalton Kincaid.

Sure, he'd be an unknown as a head coach, but I'd rather take a swing on someone that can maximize Josh's talent than go with some stale re-tread.

Things have worked pretty well for coaches from this coaching tree lately. And as for Slowik specifically, the proof is in the pudding with the explosive Texans offense.

Guy has also coached on the defensive side of the ball early in his coaching career if I remember correctly 

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Funny you mention a coach-for-coach trade.

 

I was just thinking last night if we could pull one off with the Giants.

 

They get McD who is good for fixing a bottom-5 team. We get Dabol who our players love and would fix our offense.

 

Git r dun

 

 

Just pure speculation but i think Dabol may have worn out his welcome in Buffalo.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Just pure speculation but i think Dabol may have worn out his welcome in Buffalo.  

 

With who?

[JoeF]

[Dablitzkrieg]

Just now, JoeF said:

Can he count to 11?

[Logic]

6 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

 

Guy has also coached on the defensive side of the ball early in his coaching career if I remember correctly 

Correct.

Was a defensive coach on that Redskins staff that had Shanahan, McVay, McDaniels, and LaFleur. Is currently running a successful offense with what most would agree are a lot less talented parts than what the Bills have. 

I think either Ben Johnson or Slowik would be the logical choices if the Bills want to go with an offensive guy, which they should.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, JoeF said:

 

I know youre mostly joking, and his methods simply do not work with modern players anymore, but he would definitely have the guys ready for situational football like lining up for a field goal.