Second blitz at end of game

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

 

Does Taron Johnson make plays downfield? Serious question. He’s the best slot DB in the league (very arguable) for a reason. I’m going to bet that chasing speedsters isn’t his forte, and he proved that to be true.
 

How many timeouts did the Bills have in their pocket on this game deciding play? McDermott doesn’t have the game time smarts for the heady stuff.
 

The only solace I find is that the Broncos would’ve gotten the first down on the next play, even if McDermott’s blitz got home.

 

Russ can throw it 50 from his butt

that’s the thing. Payton lined up his WRs and tod them to go deep. Russ was told if it’s a jailhouse break ID a matchup off the line and heaven it. If they slowed down the blitz at all it’s a TD because we aren’t wining that battle with all 4 corners on an island. In the end the offense knew the assignment and executed it. If it doesn’t work out they have another snap. 
 

the real win was anything short that left a looooong kick to either lose the game or get the ball back with timeouts to get our own win. 

[Snappysnackcakes]

7 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

I’m simply asking you to back up your OP, but instead you’ve just floundered around and become defensive.

And if we sat back in zone they probably would have. By blitzing we forced them into making a low percentage throw. It didn’t work in our favor. Doesn’t make it a bad call though.

No play, by design, is called to fail. As an example, a FB dive is not designed to result in an 80 yard TD, but getting even 4 yards is a successful design and likely solid execution. In this case, by calling, essentially, consecutive identical blitzes, and leaving TJ alone in coverage, we gave Denver a do over and we got burned. It cannot be this difficult to understand the coach telling his QB, “If they try this again, then do this” which is EXACTLY what transpired. And I stand by my post in strongly believing Coach has reached his ceiling in this league. For this call, 12 men, and a slew of other reasons. It’s not an attack on the man, it’s just an obvious reality - at least to me and 3/5 of Wallers. Nobody has to agree with me, and clearly you do not. All I can picture is Pee-Wee Herman repeating “I know you are but what am I?” after someone calls him a name. That’s literally how you’ve treated this thread, with the redundant responses. 

[HoofHearted]

48 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

My question was (and I haven’t rewatched so my memory could be hazy…thanks blue light) …why in this scenario when we are sending pressure on 3&10 just narrowly out of FG range…are we taking a flat foot read from 5 yards off the ball. Why not press tighter to the LOS?

It’s called Man 7 coverage. Basically you sit at 7 knowing it’s gotta be a quick pass because of the blitz so you sit on top of the route expecting a quick hitter inside that you can drive to the catch point which is typically 5 yards. It’s a safer way to play 0 when you don’t have guys who can consistently win at the LoS.

[Bob Jones]

9 hours ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I wholeheartedly agree that Sean needs to be replaced and the second blitz in a row, at the end of the game, seals it for me. This was a legitimately terrible defensive play call. Period. Sean is the DC. End of story. He, unlike previous seasons, has no one to blame. It’s on him and he was outsmarted by a very talented coach and very experienced QB. This is a microcosm of Sean’s time as HC. I wish to be succinct, so that’s it. 

I agree, and the most disappointing thing is that they made no effort to conceal the fact that it was coming, so Russell Wilson knew exactly what to do.

 

Also, the coverage was pure garbage. Jeudy was past Johnson almost immediately. How in holy hell do you let a guy get behind you so quickly, especially at that point in the game!? That is one time where Johnson absolutely should have been playing back a little and keeping Jeudy in front of him. It was 3rd and 10 with :35 on the clock when the play started and Denver had no timeouts left.

[HoofHearted]

19 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

No play, by design, is called to fail. As an example, a FB dive is not designed to result in an 80 yard TD, but getting even 4 yards is a successful design and likely solid execution. In this case, by calling, essentially, consecutive identical blitzes, and leaving TJ alone in coverage, we gave Denver a do over and we got burned. It cannot be this difficult to understand the coach telling his QB, “If they try this again, then do this” which is EXACTLY what transpired. And I stand by my post in strongly believing Coach has reached his ceiling in this league. For this call, 12 men, and a slew of other reasons. It’s not an attack on the man, it’s just an obvious reality - at least to me and 3/5 of Wallers. Nobody has to agree with me, and clearly you do not. All I can picture is Pee-Wee Herman repeating “I know you are but what am I?” after someone calls him a name. That’s literally how you’ve treated this thread, with the redundant responses. 

There’s the disconnect. This isn’t about McDermott to me. I’ve been solely speaking about the call itself. To be clear - it was not the identical call as the play before. Also, I’ve never said it was the only call that should be made there. I just want us (as a board) to get out of this mindset of “if a play doesn’t work it was a bad call” mentality. Or at the very least be able to back up why it was a bad call from a schematic/situational standpoint.

 

And to be very clear Russ threw up a prayer - all you guys saying the rainbow was intentional to draw a flag are hilarious.

[Bob Jones]

3 hours ago, Since1981 said:

Payton out coached our McD, not unlike Reid’s :13. Think about it, inferior team, on road, scramble FG unit and yet, it was our guy that couldn’t count to 11? Oh yeah, he only has 10 fingers so….

TBF, on that play where Denver ran in its FG unit, the clock was running, the Bills were out of timeouts, and they also ran in some players (saw at least 5 on the replay) on their FG defensive unit, and there literally was no time for somebody on the Bills side to do a head count. And even if they did the count, and realized they had 12 guys out there, nothing could be done about it since they had no TOs and there wasn’t enough time for the guy to run off.

 

Who was going to be out there for the FG should have been decided during one of the TWO timeouts the Bills had just previously used. IMHO, the FG defensive unit should have already been out there on Denver’s 3rd down….in that situation there’s always a chance that a team will kick it on 3rd down anyway (in case there’s a fumbled snap, they can do it again/earlier in the game Denver did have a fumbled snap). In this case though, Denver wanted to run the clock down to nuthin, and that’s why they didn’t spike the ball on 3rd down.

[Snappysnackcakes]

57 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

There’s the disconnect. This isn’t about McDermott to me. I’ve been solely speaking about the call itself. To be clear - it was not the identical call as the play before. Also, I’ve never said it was the only call that should be made there. I just want us (as a board) to get out of this mindset of “if a play doesn’t work it was a bad call” mentality. Or at the very least be able to back up why it was a bad call from a schematic/situational standpoint.

 

And to be very clear Russ threw up a prayer - all you guys saying the rainbow was intentional to draw a flag are hilarious.

Well holy smokes, we agree. As I just said, no play is designed to fail. You can execute a play perfectly and still “lose” that down. First blitz was a win. Second was a loss. The second blitz effectively allowed the Broncs to “try again” and I believe the “rainbow” was by design because it is more difficult to time a catch (offensively and defensively) which favors the offense. Think of it as a quasi Hail Mary except, most importantly, a DPI has to be called if it occurs.

I stand by my believing Coach has finished evolving and needs to be replaced. No good comes from this organization doing a midseason change and he’s done more than enough to earn a full, final season. And to all who think this unit can rally and save the season, I sure hope so, but Allen looks nothing like himself and Coach has run out of people to blame. If he’s given another HC job, he needs to study his mentor Reid and Belichick. The buck stops with them. 

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get what you are saying, but still put it all on the offense.  Both those games we should have been up multiple scores by the 4th quarter, not playing from behind trying to steal a win.  Other teams are blowing those teams out and our team can't break 25 points.  

 

So many bad calls and mistakes like the Pats game where came away with 0 points after Dorsey ran on 3rd and goal from inside the 1 and chose to do it in shotgun with a past his prime RB 6 yards behind the LOS.  Which by the way, was the 2nd week in a row he made the exact same stupid decision that didn't work either game.  

 

Point is, while yes the defense came up short at the end of the game, the only reason the defense was in that position was because our offense stinks.  And our defense has frequently been out on the field way too long thanks to the anemic offense and its already severely short handed as it is.  The offense has been healthy for the most part yet has been our achilles heal every week.

 

So not disagreeing with you about the defense coming up short on those drives, but I fault the D less for that and more the O for even being in that position and often on the field more than they should be too because the offense has stunk.  

Right, you fault the D less.  Which puts some blame on the D, which disagrees with your statement that you put it all on the offense.  You’re saying one thing (all on the o) , but then saying something (less fault on the D….but still admitting fault). 
 

Our 5-5 record isn’t because of just one facet of the team.  

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And in both GWDs stupid blitzes hurt us. I was to take McDermott's playbook and rip the blitz pages out. Because they suck.

Agreed.  Spags brings it and Spags gets home.  Some DCs know when and how to bring it.  McD doesn’t seem to know how right now. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Agreed.  Spags brings it and Spags gets home.  Some DCs know when and how to bring it.  McD doesn’t seem to know how right now. 

 

The reason the 2nd down blitz worked was because the Bills almost never send an all out blitz like that. It was a good call. To give Russ a look at it and then call the very next blitz the very next down was just bad coaching. That scenario was ideal to run a simulated pressure, rush 4 but drop a lineman out and bring a backer or a corner as the 4th guy. 

[ILBillsfan]

Denver had zero timeouts at this time....no need for that zero blitz play the sticks most likely they are doing a sideline route to try to pick up some cheap yards they can take a chance to go to far and have time expire on them 

[Charles Romes]

11 hours ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

They picked us apart all night underneath I agree with the call. Better than watching that soft zone coverage where they pick up 8 yards a play. Taron just didn’t get his head around… Simple as that. 

the blitz forced an horrendous balloon throw that Taron should have defended.  He had forever to read the receiver’s reaction and turn around. Game over. Taron blew the play 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

You can't defend a zero blitz at that time after the sack. He got lucky with a good call and getting the sack. All he has to do on that next play is rush 3, drop 7, and spy Wilson. Simple. 

McDermott has to go if we want to win it all. I've said it for three years and been leading the anti McDermott charge. Nice that others are joining the bandwagon. 

 

[shane nelson]

Straight from the Greg Williams playbook 

[starrymessenger]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

payton is notorious for calling 4 verticals against that 

 

given our secondary and their receivers they pre snap can call the lollipop and know there is a decent chance the DB will not execute on the level of the WR. 
 

we begged them to target our weakness with the not unlikely result being we never touch the ball again.

Actually I thought it was worse than that. People are criticizing Taron for not turning his head around, fair enuf but the problem occurred long before. Jeudy got about 5 yards of separation on Taron off the snap. I don't think Broncos were throwing up a lollipop looking for a flag. If the ball had not been badly under thrown Jeudy would easily have sailed into the end zone untouched. Taron is a good player that does a lot of things well but I wouldn't see him in man vs Jeudy. He just doesn't have that kind of foot speed to stay with a guy like that. Maybe McD was expecting a crossing pattern where Taron would have a shot but that's not what they called. 
Speaking for myself I would have liked to see another body back there. 

[John from Riverside]

It was obviously the wrong call

[LetzGoBuffalo]

I didn't love the call however the pressure got to Russ like they wanted and he heaved a prayer up to Sutton in which TJ just got slightly beat. Probably expected by MCD. Yes it was PI but sort of a borderline call. If that ball falls incomplete with no PI, is it still a bad play call by MCD? 

[harmonkillebrew]

12 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

If Taron doesn't interfere with Jeudy is it a bad call? 

Jeudy had him burned. if Wilson throws a better pass it's a TD.  

They should have bluffed the blitz and dropped Hamlin back as deep Safety to stop that.

It was 3rd and 10 and they were out of FG range. Even an 8 yd gain would have only yielded a very long FG attempt.

It was a foolhardy call.  

Didn't Gregg Williams get canned a few years ago for doing a zero blitz that lost the game?

[Mikie2times]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

There’s the disconnect. This isn’t about McDermott to me. I’ve been solely speaking about the call itself. To be clear - it was not the identical call as the play before. Also, I’ve never said it was the only call that should be made there. I just want us (as a board) to get out of this mindset of “if a play doesn’t work it was a bad call” mentality. Or at the very least be able to back up why it was a bad call from a schematic/situational standpoint.

 

And to be very clear Russ threw up a prayer - all you guys saying the rainbow was intentional to draw a flag are hilarious.

I don't like cover zero when you need to defend 10 yards with the game on the line and you just ran a very successful cover 0 blitz.

 

To voluntarily script Denver into either a quick slant or tossing that ball up. Limit the options to an easy decision revolving around purely a 1 on 1 match up that we don't have the edge on. It was one thing when they had field goal range and we had some element of surprise. Neither was the case on that play.  I think we can create better odds than that on 3rd and 10. So I don't agree with call and I cursed it prior to the end of the play. The actual truth is nobody has enough data on game ending back to back cover 0's in that down and distance. So either side is fairly limited in the discussion. It's more about what people think is logical or not logical. A simulated pressure after the prior play, in my opinion, would have confused Wilson. We got home in a fraction of a second the play prior. He was going to look to unload that pass quick.  

[ngbills]

14 hours ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I wholeheartedly agree that Sean needs to be replaced and the second blitz in a row, at the end of the game, seals it for me. This was a legitimately terrible defensive play call. Period. Sean is the DC. End of story. He, unlike previous seasons, has no one to blame. It’s on him and he was outsmarted by a very talented coach and very experienced QB. This is a microcosm of Sean’s time as HC. I wish to be succinct, so that’s it. 

One of the worst calls I have ever seen. 

[leonbus23]

5 hours ago, NoSaint said:

that’s the thing. Payton lined up his WRs and tod them to go deep. Russ was told if it’s a jailhouse break ID a matchup off the line and heaven it. If they slowed down the blitz at all it’s a TD because we aren’t wining that battle with all 4 corners on an island. In the end the offense knew the assignment and executed it. If it doesn’t work out they have another snap. 
 

the real win was anything short that left a looooong kick to either lose the game or get the ball back with timeouts to get our own win. 

 

I think this is the main point. Payton set up a play for an all out blitz. For some reason, he had the inclination that McD would send the blitz again, and he was ready. 

 

In that situation, Payton having prepared Russ for the blitz gave Denver a chance. 

 

Since Payton prepared his team for the blitz, as soon as Russ got the ball he threw it up. 

 

This reminds me of when Greg Williams called two consecutive all out blitzes against the Raiders. The Raiders blew the first chance, but were ready on the second one and hit the pass and won the game. 

 

The point is that if the opposing coach thinks the blitz is coming, he can get his team ready for it, which Payton did. It seems like it is always better to know what your opponent is doing in advance and set something up to counter it. 

Raiders Win

Edited November 15, 2023 by leonbus23

[RyanC883]

14 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

Payton and Wilson were ready for it on the second attempt.  A second sack at that point was highly unlikely.  In the context of the moment it was a terrible call. 

 

I generally like aggressive D, but given that payton and wilson are smart and adaptable, I would have shown blitz, then dropped back.  

[boyst]

13 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

That was my entire point… lol

 

 But I’ll play. What was the better call?

Your entire point is analytics without real football insight. 

 

Our attack to the QB sucked. Regardless of blitz or rush. You're also provoking semantics knowing yourself most people don't grasp all the lingo and blitz to most is the same as a rush. You're doing this on purpose knowing better. It's weaksauce. 

 

Further. We couldn't effectively get to rusa. We had a lot of issues in the secondary with communication, as well. We gambled and brought pressure and it was ok. The second time the broncos saw it coming. Anyone did. We don't need % comp rate or anything. 

 

So many of us saw the strategy of how to achieve defensive success just like the chiefs 13 seconds. It's been pointed out so I won't be redundant. 

 

Step down from your perch. Your analysis is fine but on the field it didn't work and was not going to. It is not about hindsight. All game we were missing Wilson and the jackass coach wouldn't and couldn't adapt.

[vanislebills44]

johnson trying to bully a much bigger jeudy off the line was odd

defence was playing well, why not blitz one off the edge n spy wilson..

lutz was shaky all game, force him into a long field goal, the big word being ifffff, they even completed the next play to get into range

in retrospect, if millionaires could count to 11 it would all be for naught

someone please explain to me why a defense is in dime when the other team is kneeling?? rare if ever do teams in fg range with a chance to win try a trick play

certainly there are coverage players on the fg block unit, if i have to try and justify this to my buds at breaky 1 more time i am going to go nuts

10 hours ago, Mantis said:

 

 

[colin]

im good with blitzes, it's part of football.

 

what drives me nuts is how badly we blitz, just don't have any flow to it, never seem to find the open gap, it's like they are so surprised and excited that they are blitzing they just run and bang into whoever is in front of them.

 

there is an art and a science to blitzing, and we don't seem to grasp either.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

42 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I generally like aggressive D, but given that payton and wilson are smart and adaptable, I would have shown blitz, then dropped back.  

 

I don't mind blitzing - but i don't like running the same 0 blitz back to back.  Why not line up in coverage and blitz a corner or something?  

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Right, you fault the D less.  Which puts some blame on the D, which disagrees with your statement that you put it all on the offense.  You’re saying one thing (all on the o) , but then saying something (less fault on the D….but still admitting fault). 
 

Our 5-5 record isn’t because of just one facet of the team.  

I still respectfully disagree.  Bottom line is in all 5 losses the defense did enough for us to win over the course of the game and the offense did not.  
 

The only reason those opponents had a chance to drive and win was because the offense crapped the bed those games.  If Giants score on last play who’s the loss on?  Defense who held the opponent to 15 points or the offense who managed just 14 points at home against the worst team in the NFL?  
 

Our offense has continuously put our severely injured defense in bad positions in every loss and even some of our wins.  
 

If the offense is just normal in the 5 losses then we are undefeated, they didn’t even need to be great, they just needed to not suck.  
 

It’s been by miles the biggest issue of this team this year despite being healthy. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[HoofHearted]

33 minutes ago, boyst said:

Your entire point is analytics without real football insight. 

 

Our attack to the QB sucked. Regardless of blitz or rush. You're also provoking semantics knowing yourself most people don't grasp all the lingo and blitz to most is the same as a rush. You're doing this on purpose knowing better. It's weaksauce. 

 

Further. We couldn't effectively get to rusa. We had a lot of issues in the secondary with communication, as well. We gambled and brought pressure and it was ok. The second time the broncos saw it coming. Anyone did. We don't need % comp rate or anything. 

 

So many of us saw the strategy of how to achieve defensive success just like the chiefs 13 seconds. It's been pointed out so I won't be redundant. 

 

Step down from your perch. Your analysis is fine but on the field it didn't work and was not going to. It is not about hindsight. All game we were missing Wilson and the jackass coach wouldn't and couldn't adapt.

My posts are always about football insight. Not sure what you're getting at in the rest of your incoherent post.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I still respectfully disagree.  Bottom line is in all 5 losses the defense did enough for us to win over the course of the game and the offense did not.  
 

The only reason those opponents had a chance to drive and win was because the offense crapped the bed those games.  If Giants score on last play who’s the loss on?  Defense who held the opponent to 15 points or the offense who managed just 14 points at home against the worst team in the NFL?  
 

Our offense has continuously put our severely injured defense in bad positions in every loss and even some of our wins.  
 

If the offense is just normal in the 5 losses then we are undefeated, they didn’t even need to be great, they just needed to not suck.  
 

It’s been by miles the biggest issue of this team this year despite being healthy. 

The defense did a good enough job vs the pats?  No they did not.  Take away our game…..and the pats have averaged 11.2 points a game.  The patriots scored 14 in the 4th qtr vs us…. 2.8 points more than their season average per game. Our defense DID NOT do enough to win that game.  They failed us.  
 

Denver, they had the lead and couldn’t get off the field Vs the 16th ranked offense to win the game.  The d played solid during the game….but failed when it mattered most. 

I think you mean what you’re saying and I somewhat agree with your premise.  I just think you aren’t totally comprehending what you are saying when you say every loss has been entirely on the offense.  

 

[C.Biscuit97]

I will say and it’s the part that annoys me about sports/ fans. If it works and they sack him or make him throw a pick, we praise McDermott for not being conservative and going for the kill shot. Since it didn’t work, he’s a moron. It’s all reactionary and based on the end result. So it gets pretty stupid at times. 
 

that said, SM does have a bad habit of not being able to close games and it is very worrisome. This was a knock on Reid so it can change (but Reid is such an offensive innovator).

[Snappysnackcakes]

39 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

My posts are always about football insight. Not sure what you're getting at in the rest of your incoherent post.

Tell me about it. I’m becoming increasingly convinced HoofHearted is lightly associated with the team. 

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

Tell me about it. I’m becoming increasingly convinced HoofHearted is lightly associated with the team. 

[MJS]

16 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

If we get a second sack is it a terrible call?

Yes, it is. It was an atrocious call, and I am one of the biggest Sean McDermott apologists. If you really want to blitz, fine, but an all out blitz? He brought 8! That is just stupid. Completely and totally stupid. There is no defense. Especially since he did the same exact thing the previous play so they were ready for it.

 

Does it mean Sean McDermott needs to be fired immediately? No. But it certainly does not help his cause.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Actually I thought it was worse than that. People are criticizing Taron for not turning his head around, fair enuf but the problem occurred long before. Jeudy got about 5 yards of separation on Taron off the snap. I don't think Broncos were throwing up a lollipop looking for a flag. If the ball had not been badly under thrown Jeudy would easily have sailed into the end zone untouched. Taron is a good player that does a lot of things well but I wouldn't see him in man vs Jeudy. He just doesn't have that kind of foot speed to stay with a guy like that. Maybe McD was expecting a crossing pattern where Taron would have a shot but that's not what they called. 
Speaking for myself I would have liked to see another body back there. 

ultimately I think we are fully in agreement just talking about different elements of the play. 
 

id bet a significant sum that the play call was essentially verticals, with the instruction that if they come to pick the mismatch and whatever you do don’t over throw it. 
 

on an island and a 4.4 guy gets his release of the line  - I don’t care if you are the best nickel corner ever… unless you have help, that’s a great matchup for the offense.

 

sure McDermott created pressure but Payton gave every bit of the pressure back with what amounted to a more skilled and more prepared group of players that had the rules in their favor.

 

im not furious or anything but I do think we got one upped on that play by a smart coach-vet qb- good wr putting a decent corner in a very tough spot schematically 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

My posts are always about football insight. Not sure what you're getting at in the rest of your incoherent post.

meh, it's easy to be incoherrent.

 

my point was simple. you are trying to over complicate and explain the problems in a way that isn't valid beyond the stats/paper/etc.

 

in practice the entire game was terrible at generating pressure. there was no need to continue to do something that wasn't working all day even if it was "not the same play as before"

 

that's what people are getting at.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Man, as a fan since the late 1960s, I don't know how anyone can want McDermott fired.  The second half of the sixties, 75% of the seventies, 50% of the 80s and the drought years all stunk to be a Bills fan.  McDermott turned that around and made the playoffs every year but one.  Josh may be hurt and is playing poorly, and some of the core is getting old, some of it is injured.  

 

Coaching change won't help any of that.  Time to retool, not scrap the ship.  Geez.  I appreciate this administration.  IMHO, best in the history of the franchise (including Levy/Polian and Saban -- the only real contenders I believe).

[stlbills13]

Not related to either blitz but didn't want to start a whole thread on it.

 

How many times after a Bills touchdown does our defense give up a big play on the first snap? That game was over as soon as Denver gained like 17 yards on a little dump off on first down. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

The defense did a good enough job vs the pats?  No they did not.  Take away our game…..and the pats have averaged 11.2 points a game.  The patriots scored 14 in the 4th qtr vs us…. 2.8 points more than their season average per game. Our defense DID NOT do enough to win that game.  They failed us.  
 

Denver, they had the lead and couldn’t get off the field Vs the 16th ranked offense to win the game.  The d played solid during the game….but failed when it mattered most. 

I think you mean what you’re saying and I somewhat agree with your premise.  I just think you aren’t totally comprehending what you are saying when you say every loss has been entirely on the offense.  

 

We aren’t far apart…but I’m just more that the offense put the defense in those positions from sucking.  The last 6 weeks the offense is avg 14 points less than the first 4 weeks.  We didn’t lose any games by 14.  
 

If offense was not so anemic last 6 weeks we win all those games despite any defensive struggles is really my side of the convo.  And the offense is healthy and has no excuse where the D is hit hard by injuries.  

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I still respectfully disagree.  Bottom line is in all 5 losses the defense did enough for us to win over the course of the game and the offense did not.  
 

The only reason those opponents had a chance to drive and win was because the offense crapped the bed those games.  If Giants score on last play who’s the loss on?  Defense who held the opponent to 15 points or the offense who managed just 14 points at home against the worst team in the NFL?  
 

Our offense has continuously put our severely injured defense in bad positions in every loss and even some of our wins.  
 

If the offense is just normal in the 5 losses then we are undefeated, they didn’t even need to be great, they just needed to not suck.  
 

It’s been by miles the biggest issue of this team this year despite being healthy. 

Had we lost to the giants I’d be comfortable blaming both. Heck, we won and I think daboll/tyrod was our shining light.

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

We aren’t far apart…but I’m just more that the offense put the defense in those positions from sucking.  The last 6 weeks the offense is avg 14 points less than the first 4 weeks.  We didn’t lose any games by 14.  
 

If offense was not so anemic last 6 weeks we win all those games despite any defensive struggles is really my side of the convo.  And the offense is healthy and has no excuse where the D is hit hard by injuries.  

the offense is getting the worst starting field position in the league. How’s that for complimentary football? 
 

neither side is working and the head coach has plenty of explaining to do.

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

We aren’t far apart…but I’m just more that the offense put the defense in those positions from sucking.  The last 6 weeks the offense is avg 14 points less than the first 4 weeks.  We didn’t lose any games by 14.  
 

If offense was not so anemic last 6 weeks we win all those games despite any defensive struggles is really my side of the convo.  And the offense is healthy and has no excuse where the D is hit hard by injuries.  

Whatever floats your boat man.  Seems strange to blame every single loss 💯 on the offense. Can’t subscribe to the defense getting zero blame in the patriot game especially 

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

meh, it's easy to be incoherrent.

 

my point was simple. you are trying to over complicate and explain the problems in a way that isn't valid beyond the stats/paper/etc.

 

in practice the entire game was terrible at generating pressure. there was no need to continue to do something that wasn't working all day even if it was "not the same play as before"

 

that's what people are getting at.

We did generate pressure. Ed was a monster all night. That’s why we didn’t blitz a whole lot. Did you watch the game?