Bills @ Bengals postgame thread

[Billz4ever]

We currently have an OC who was not known as a particularly mobile QB when he played now trying to call the offense for a QB who is.

 

That's a big problem in my book.

 

Dorsey simply doesn't see the game the same way Josh does.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I came on here to just throw a few thoughts out there.   I was at the game.

 

These are the first two points, and as you suggest, they may the only two things that really matter.   

 

It's basic football - if you have evenly matched teams, turnovers will play a big role in the outcome.  Kincaid fumble was a real killer.   Allen badly underthrew the INT.  He had Davis, and it's a throw he's made many times. 

 

The defense actually did okay, holding a really good offense to 24 points.   But the defense wasn't good enough to make enough stops.  On the last Bengal drive, Boyd burned Johnson bad, but that's what I mean by a really good offense.  When a team comes at you with three wideouts like they have, and with a QB who is one of the most accurate throwers I've even seen, you're going to give up plays.   Holding them to 24 was good, especially because the Bills were playing with guys I didn't even recognize.   Dodson or Williams made a really dumb play by coming on a late blitz and leaving their tight end open for the TD that was the game winner.   Bernard and Milano likely would have played that right.  

 

Pass protection was weak.  

 

Allen needs to be part of the attack - his runs in the second half opened things up for the offense.  

 

Bengals fans are very nice, and they were all orange and black, but they don't make noise like Bills fans.  They're pretty noisy, but not as loud or as consistently as we are.  They're kind of too busy singing Sweet Caroline.   And they have a stupid touchdown song.   But they do have a good football team.  

 

McDermott's got a lot of work to do, patching that defense together.  

 

And to say what I've said so often for so long, I think offensively the season is on Dorsey.  His quarterback should not be standing back there looking around wondering where he can find an open receiver.  I thought Allen looked much better running the offense when they went no huddle last week.  He seemed more engaged, he was studying the field pre-snap.   Maybe they can't go no huddle in a noisy environment.  Whatever it is, Allen's receivers should be getting open on schedule, and either they aren't or Allen doesn't know where to find them.  

This game was not as loud as the Monday Night game last year. 

 

Agree on the no-huddle. 

 

It's obvious to everyone else watching the game. 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

I wonder if there is an internal battle at Orchard Park about how Josh should approach the game. Some think he should keep to what works and take the mess with the magic whilst others want to try and develop him further to cut the mess and, if it affects the magic, so be it if reduces turnovers. It’s only supposition but, if so, it’s not surprising the offense is unpredictable and the use of Josh changes drive by drive. I know his old approach cost the Bills against the Jets but it’s won a load more games too. Is it time to call for original Josh and stomach the flies in the ointment?

Instead of trying to squeeze out every last drop of talent from Allen in a misguided effort to improve his game even further a couple of years ago the Bills needed to do what the other real Super Bowl contenders have done:  pour money and resources into surrounding Allen with top level offensive talent starting with the O line.

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Von Miller was the worst free agent signing since ______________ …

All of the $$$ and draft equity tied up into that DL, and still they constantly have to send extra rushers at the QB, and they still can’t get home when it matters… just a huge failure as a whole organizationally.

 

Barring Josh flipping a switch and becoming unstoppable, this team is toast. It’s time to move on from this regime, and give Josh a chance to work some elite offensive minds.

 

 

100%. 

 

Would be nice now to have gone all-in and gotten Davante Adams 2 years ago. 

[RG Murdock]

15 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Explain how Allen is the next Newton. Please 

I'll be pleased to explain how the Beane/McDermott Panthers are making Allen the next Newton...  . Newton's most successful season came in his 4th season (Like Allen's) In 2015 when Newton was named Most Valuable Player (MVP) (Allen has not ever been MVP), and helped Panthers obtain a franchise-best 15–1 record en route to an appearance in Super Bowl 50 (Allen has done neither). After Newton's best season, the Panthers won fewer games every year (Like Allen). The Panthers ran Newton into the ground (Like the Bills with Allen). By Newtons 7th year he was shot. But at least the Panthers provided Newton with a solid running game during his career. Actually the Bills are treating Josh worse than the Panthers treated Newton. The Bills have grossly overpaid several veterans, and drafted very poorly. This team has clearly peaked, and the raod back is not clear. Allen and Diggs contractts both expire after 2026. I seee them both getting fed up, and depart to a better situation... The Bills have 2 transformational players in Allen and Diggs. They have blown it with both!!    

[Low Positive]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

We currently have an OC who was not known as a particularly mobile QB when he played now trying to call the offense for a QB who is.

 

That's a big problem in my book.

 

Dorsey simply doesn't see the game the same way Josh does.

I think you're on to something there. Cam Newton for OC.

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Here is what he does:

 

W1 - 2/32

W2 - 6/92

W3 - 1/35

W4 - 3/61

W5 - 6/100

W6 - 3/21

W7 - 1/6

W8 - 9/87

W9 - 0/0

 

5/9 Weeks he's under 40 yards with Josh Allen as his QB and playing 95% of the snaps. 

 

HE IS AWFUL. 

He is what he is - and very consistently too. A WR3 or even 4 at times . 

[Success]

I wish I could quit this team.  So much heartbreak & disappointment.

 

It's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Allen is a great QB, but it's not enough in a conference FULL of great QB's.  We are currently an afterthought in this AFC.  After 13 seconds, I really assumed we'd be trading titles w/ KC.

 

 

[Roundybout]

Just now, RG Murdock said:

I'll be pleased to explain how the Beane/McDermott Panthers are making Allen the next Newton...  . Newton's most successful season came in his 4th season (Like Allen's) In 2015 when Newton was named Most Valuable Player (MVP) (Allen has not ever been MVP), and helped Panthers obtain a franchise-best 15–1 record en route to an appearance in Super Bowl 50 (Allen has done neither). After Newton's best season, the Panthers won fewer games every year (Like Allen). The Panthers ran Newton into the ground (Like the Bills with Allen). By Newtons 7th year he was shot. But at least the Panthers provided Newton with a solid running game during his career. Actually the Bills are treating Josh worse than the Panthers treated Newton. The Bills have grossly overpaid several veterans, and drafted very poorly. This team has clearly peaked, and the raod back is not clear. Allen and Diggs contractts both expire after 2026. I seee them both getting fed up, and depart to a better situation... The Bills have 2 transformational players in Allen and Diggs. They have blown it with both!!    

The coaching staff is going out of its way to PREVENT Josh from running! This is a bad comp

[Comebackkid]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

We currently have an OC who was not known as a particularly mobile QB when he played now trying to call the offense for a QB who is.

 

That's a big problem in my book.

 

Dorsey simply doesn't see the game the same way Josh does.

my problem is....   he sucked as a qb..ok....and where did he suddenly accrue all this knowledge to lead an offense?

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

I think you're on to something there. Cam Newton for OC.

Dorsey has continued to prove he's the guy trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

 

Josh is not the Brady pocket passer Dorsey wants him to be.

[Tulsabillsfanz]

8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Here is what he does:

 

W1 - 2/32

W2 - 6/92

W3 - 1/35

W4 - 3/61

W5 - 6/100

W6 - 3/21

W7 - 1/6

W8 - 9/87

W9 - 0/0

 

5/9 Weeks he's under 40 yards with Josh Allen as his QB and playing 95% of the snaps. 

 

HE IS AWFUL. 

So, we’re 2-3 when Davis has 35 receiving yards or less. We’re 3-1 when he has more than 35 receiving yards.   Not laying the blame for lack of yardage solely on Davis, but there’s a stat to keep an eye on. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Tulsabillsfanz

[Warriorspikes51]

Bill B. for HC, Tom Brady for OC

 

JUST DO IT!  
 

They can bring us a championship after all the misery they gave us

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, Comebackkid said:

my problem is....   he sucked as a qb..ok....and where did he suddenly accrue all this knowledge to lead an offense?

He was a QB that was decent in a pure pocket passing scheme. Josh is not that.

 

It's trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

[Low Positive]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

Bill B. for HC, Tom Brady for OC

 

JUST DO IT!  
 

They can bring us a championship after all the misery they gave us

And Gronk for QB coach?

[steven50]

1 hour ago, No_Matter_What said:

I know it will be all doom and gloom and fire everybody mood here right now but I don’t share it.

 

To me the team was prepared today, we fought a tough battle vs very good team on the road. We were not dominated. We had another key injury in Bernard early + Hyde late, Josh made one big mistake (INT), they had one great defensive play (Kincaid fumble).

 

I actually liked our offense. Shakir and Kincaid showed progress again. We need to incorporate new players into defense and finally stop having bad luck with key injuries. And once the playoff comes, Von Miller makes that key stop on 3rd down with 2 mins to go.

 

I think we just hit rock bottom record wise. Now every game is just a fight for a playoffs spot, and if we get there, which I have no doubt about, we will be battle tested and in form.

 

I believe in this team.

If the blatant tripping had been called. If the face mask pass interference had been called. if the ridiculous roughing the passer penalty hadn't been called....

 

That is at least 3 instance off the top of my head that would have changed the game. This was a very poorly called game. The refs were so brutal even Cris Collinsworth ( a guy I cannot stand) made mention of it.

 

I almost never complain about the refs but this crew was horrible.

[Doc Brown]

If it makes you guys feel any better that last Burrow completion won the week in fantasy for me.

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

And Gronk for QB coach?

Gronk can play😆

[Roundybout]

One shred of positivity: Kincaid was the first rookie TE to get 10 or more catches in a game since Jeremy Shockey back in 2004. Fumble aside, he’s been incredible.

[Comebackkid]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

Dorsey has continued to prove he's the guy trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

 

Josh is not the Brady pocket passer Dorsey wants him to be.

not entirely..but he has had success playing that way....but i look at the replay a lot of times and there are 3 recievers past the line of scrimmage...two bunched together and all just past the line of scrimmage and heavily covered.   its like they focus on a play on one person and the rest just go out to block/play decoy...of course this isnt every play...but far to often.

[LyndonvilleBill]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

How many games is this without our defense forcing a turnover?  5?  Definition of soft.

Don't worry,  the offense is making up for it.🤬

[Low Positive]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

Gronk can play😆

So then the ghost of Aaron Hernandez as OC.

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

So then the ghost of Aaron Hernandez as OC.

I’m open to almost anything at this point

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

One shred of positivity: Kincaid was the first rookie TE to get 10 or more catches in a game since Jeremy Shockey back in 2004. Fumble aside, he’s been incredible.

He's starting to heat up.

 

Still nothing deeper than 10 yards, but he is slithery underneath. 

[Breakout Squad]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He's starting to heat up.

 

Still nothing deeper than 10 yards, but he is slithery underneath. 

Kincaid is going to be great 

[Comebackkid]

4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

He was a QB that was decent in a pure pocket passing scheme. Josh is not that.

 

It's trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

am i missing something?.....where here screams...oh...i should definetely let this guy lead a team with superbowl asperations and unicorn at qb?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4699/ken-dorsey

[78thealltimegreat]

11 minutes ago, RG Murdock said:

I'll be pleased to explain how the Beane/McDermott Panthers are making Allen the next Newton...  . Newton's most successful season came in his 4th season (Like Allen's) In 2015 when Newton was named Most Valuable Player (MVP) (Allen has not ever been MVP), and helped Panthers obtain a franchise-best 15–1 record en route to an appearance in Super Bowl 50 (Allen has done neither). After Newton's best season, the Panthers won fewer games every year (Like Allen). The Panthers ran Newton into the ground (Like the Bills with Allen). By Newtons 7th year he was shot. But at least the Panthers provided Newton with a solid running game during his career. Actually the Bills are treating Josh worse than the Panthers treated Newton. The Bills have grossly overpaid several veterans, and drafted very poorly. This team has clearly peaked, and the raod back is not clear. Allen and Diggs contractts both expire after 2026. I seee them both getting fed up, and depart to a better situation... The Bills have 2 transformational players in Allen and Diggs. They have blown it with both!!    

Allen is 2028 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, Comebackkid said:

not entirely..but he has had success playing that way....but i look at the replay a lot of times and there are 3 recievers past the line of scrimmage...two bunched together and all just past the line of scrimmage and heavily covered.   its like they focus on a play on one person and the rest just go out to block/play decoy...of course this isnt every play...but far to often.

I'm at the point where Dorsey believes he's seeing the offense through Josh's eyes and they are 2 completely different people.

 

Dorsey thinks he can turn Josh into a Brady type pocket passer the way Dorsey was in college and that's the exact opposite of Josh.

 

Dorsey is now regressing and calling plays that either don't take advantage of Josh's strengths or even works against him.

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I’m open to almost anything at this point

He'd be killer

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Anyone know what happened to Benford? Didn’t see him out there much at all.

[RG Murdock]

3 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

The coaching staff is going out of its way to PREVENT Josh from running! This is a bad comp

Correct. They "try" to get Josh to stop running, but the coaching, and game planning is so bad, they revert back to "letting Josh be Josh", and he's right back to taking risks. Very apprpriate comp. Plus like Newton, once teams teams figured out that Josh needs to run to be effective, like Newtons Panthers, the teams decline was quick. Does ANYBODY with a good sense of the Bills team going forward see them going back to a 14 or 13 win team anytime soon? Not with this coaching staff. Not with thier cap situation, and bad contracts... Bleak is the word. Get use to a season of 1pm start times going forward.        

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Anyone know what happened to Benford? Didn’t see him out there much at all.

Hamstring at the end of the 3rd quarter. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

@NateGearySports just reminded the WGR audience that **no head coach/QB combo has won their first Super Bowl after 5+ years together.** I have been saying this. We need to shout it from the rooftops until Pegula fires Sean McDermott and saves Josh Allen's prime. #BillsMafia  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

@NateGearySports just reminded the WGR audience that **no head coach/QB combo has won their first Super Bowl after 5+ years together.** I have been saying this. We need to shout it from the rooftops until Pegula fires Sean McDermott and saves Josh Allen's prime. #BillsMafia  

You would think that this job would be in-demand from an offensive mind. 

 

 

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

am i missing something?.....where here screams...oh...i should definetely let this guy lead a team with superbowl asperations and unicorn at qb?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4699/ken-dorsey

I'm comparing the type of Qbs they are.

 

Most great offensive coordinators weren't necessarily great players themselves, but they knew how to use the talent they have.

 

Josh and Ken were two vastly different style QBs in college and Dorsey is trying to turn Josh into a style that simple isn't going to work with Josh.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Riverboat Ritchie]

Who do we target in draft. Gotta be a WR and maybe o line 

[Mango]

38 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

And he’s being sent to Chicago? What’s Josh done to deserve that?

 

I’m going to make a hot take. I don’t blame Dorsey. I think - with no proof - that McDermott is calling for the offense to slow the clock to protect the defense. Everyone knows what gets this offense into rhythm. No huddles, designed runs from Josh, fast play. It worked on the first drive so why abandon it? Is Dorsey that stupid? Some may say yes, but I don’t think so. McDermott baulked that the weakened defense would buckle so wanted the offense to slow down and pile up the TOP.

 

For me, McDermott has to accept the Bills best chance of winning games is accepting a shootout. Do that against the Pats and the Bills would have won. Defeat tonight in isolation is fine. I bet most of us had it down as a loss when the schedule came out. Probably expected to find the Rodgers-led Jets a problem in week one and the London trip a banana skin too. It’s the Pats defeat which means a surprise win is really required. It just didn’t come tonight.

A few things. The offense ran 21 plays the first half. 7 were in the first drive. Then they went 4, 2, 3, and 5. I wish the offense would sustain drives and get the run game going too. 
 

Your hot take makes zero sense.

[Comebackkid]

2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I'm at the point where Dorsey believes he's seeing the offense through Josh's eyes and they are 2 completely different people.

 

Dorsey thinks he can turn Josh into a Brady type pocket passer the way Dorsey was in college and that's the exact opposite of Josh.

 

Dorsey is now regressing and calling plays that either don't take advantage of Josh's strengths or even works against him.

Again..
Dorsey was a big nothing burger.   

 

played four years...2 with sf and 2 with cleaveland 

16 total starts.   52% completion and 2082 total yards.  130 yards a game and 25 sacks....

this is our leader.....

 

 

[Low Positive]

Just now, Mango said:

A few things. The offense ran 21 plays the first half. 7 were in the first drive. Then they went 4, 2, 3, and 5. I wish the offense would sustain drives and get the run game going too. 
 

Your hot take makes zero sense.

That's where the game was lost.

[BananaB]

9 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Anyone know what happened to Benford? Didn’t see him out there much at all.

He was terrible when he was